Open Letter From the Mentor Team, Re: Security Council

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

And people wonder where that consensus comes from.

We just don't want to be involved in gameplay. Desiring separation is not a claim to superiority.

You're involved in gameplay, right now, you had to play the game to be able to access the forum.

The way I see you want this to end is Max making 'Malicious' liberations against the rules, but this undermines the entire process of the SC and WA, which is that it (officially) has no priorities between R/D and RP/GP.

Nope

I, for one, talk to Mall on IRC a lot, he's a really nice guy, he's just playing the game like the rest of us.

You can find him on #osi EsperNet if you ever want to yell at him, or, y'know, hold a mature discussion.

Nice way to imply that the other side isn't mature...I mean I sorta agree with you, I don't think anyone resign, I don't think Mall did this intentionally....but regardless overall calling the other side immature or lacking maturity isn't really mature, it distracts from a greater point, its unnecessary negativity, and bait imo.

[New Babylonia]

No. The petition is because a mod (Held to higher standards than you or I) Did something that he knew was going to stir up old tension and piss off a lot of people. A moderator who is supposed to keep inflammatory things from going to far, has done the exact opposite, and caused such a mess.

So, yeah, THAT is the reason we call for his resignation.

NationStates is a political simulator, of course this stuff happens. I'd recommend that you go elsewhere if you don't want to deal with things like this.

Some people commit Suicide from sad days they have on the internet.

"Oh no, my tiny RP region got raided! I'd better kill myself!"

If someone is actually considering suicide over something like this, they really shouldn't be using the internet because they likely have some serious depression issues and should be treated for their depression.

This isn't about politics, take your head out of your ass, people have said this repeatedly. This is about a moderator intentionally starting a war between two different sects of NS. It isn't political, it isn't an IC problem we're addressing, its an OOC failure of Mall to do his job at keeping the peace, rather than breaking it.

[Evil Wolf]

No, it's because of the reasons that I already stated in this post.

How did Mall show "that he doesn't care about the integrity of the forum he's moderating"? By proposing a perfectly legal SC resolution?

[Bezombia]

How did Mall show "that he doesn't care about the integrity of the forum he's moderating"? By proposing a perfectly legal SC resolution?

Yes, by proposing an SC resolution that actively seeks to destroy a group of RPers.

[New Babylonia]

How did Mall show "that he doesn't care about the integrity of the forum he's moderating"? By proposing a perfectly legal SC resolution?

Because, as said (For like the 1000th time) it was on an issue known to be inflammatory to a large number of people. Pushing RP regions into R/D pisses people off, and by putting up such a resolution, intentionally, and knowingly, started a shitstorm.

[Urmanian]

No, it's because of the reasons that I already stated in this post.

How did Mall show "that he doesn't care about the integrity of the forum he's moderating"? By proposing a perfectly legal SC resolution?

By proposing a perfectly legal SC resolution that he knew was going to cause a major fecal matter-rotary fan collision and be extremely OOC divisive, yes. Or if he didn't know, he doubly doesn't deserve to be a mod for being so ignorant of the NS community.

[Hobbesistan]

How did Mall show "that he doesn't care about the integrity of the forum he's moderating"? By proposing a perfectly legal SC resolution?

Yes, by proposing an SC resolution that actively seeks to destroy a group of RPers.

For the record, it's Hobbes, not hobble, and I don't consider myself that dense.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

The actual NS game is you nation, issues, and everything on that sidebar. That's the NS game, not GP.

That kind of reductionism doesn't help us, either. Let's say you're right. What's to stop Max from thinking, "You know, all this isn't worth the trouble of provoking furor. Let's just shut down everything except the original political simulator game."?

Not that I think it's likely, mind, but it's a possibility.

Its not even on Maxes serious consideration imo, I mean I don't know but from a logical stand point, that is a downgrade, from a nation sim + to a nation sim -

RP actually lets people seriously develop their nations, interact and all that, and it can provide talk between people in a way regions cannot sufficiently do...

It can halt bullshit like flames, etc from being seen, the PG 13 rule is likely defunct, etc....

But I think it would do more harm then good, people these days like easy communication, if just keeping a couple of forums and crippling RP works, then thats fine, it works....but removing the entire forms would be a major no no, I think Max has the same feelings, even if he prefers game side...

And just to note, despite my personal hate towards R/D, I don't dislike Max or anyone else who like sit, especially Max, after all if he thinks its interesting and all that, then its alright, same for anyone else.

The general concept is fine, its just the people in the Raiding and how they conduct themselves that I dislike.

[Bezombia]

Yes, by proposing an SC resolution that actively seeks to destroy a group of RPers.

For the record, it's Hobbes, not hobble, and I don't consider myself that dense.

Well I guess you didn't get the joke then.

[Evil Wolf]

How did Mall show "that he doesn't care about the integrity of the forum he's moderating"? By proposing a perfectly legal SC resolution?

Yes, by proposing an SC resolution that actively seeks to destroy a group of RPers.

So you don't like how he did something legally and completely within the rules of Nationstates. Thus I can infer you don't like how he plays the game and want him removed as a Mod for playing the game in his own way.

In any case, we all knew he was a raider from day one, we all knew he had these view points from the start. All he did was state them openly and as a player. What's the big deal? Is he breaking any rules? No. Is he doing anything he can't do as a normal player? No. Is he abusing his Mod powers? No.

So basically this proposal has nothing to do what Mall did as a Mod, but rather what he did as a player. The people who support it want to remove him from the Mod team to "punish" him for his actions as a player, and that, my friend, is no bueno.

[The Leningrad Union]

NationStates is a political simulator, of course this stuff happens. I'd recommend that you go elsewhere if you don't want to deal with things like this.


"Oh no, my tiny RP region got raided! I'd better kill myself!"

If someone is actually considering suicide over something like this, they really shouldn't be using the internet because they likely have some serious depression issues and should be treated for their depression.

This isn't about politics, take your head out of your ass, people have said this repeatedly. This is about a moderator intentionally starting a war between two different sects of NS. It isn't political, it isn't an IC problem we're addressing, its an OOC failure of Mall to do his job at keeping the peace, rather than breaking it.

Why would I want to take my head out of my ass? It smells so good in here!

[Hobbesistan]

For the record, it's Hobbes, not hobble, and I don't consider myself that dense.

Well I guess you didn't get the joke then.

Not a big lord of the rings fan.

[New Babylonia]

This isn't about politics, take your head out of your ass, people have said this repeatedly. This is about a moderator intentionally starting a war between two different sects of NS. It isn't political, it isn't an IC problem we're addressing, its an OOC failure of Mall to do his job at keeping the peace, rather than breaking it.

Why would I want to take my head out of my ass? It smells so good in here!

I...
I have no response to that...
Touché, good sir, touché.

[New Babylonia]

Yes, by proposing an SC resolution that actively seeks to destroy a group of RPers.

So you don't like how he did something legally and completely within the rules of Nationstates. Thus I can infer you don't like how he plays the game and want him removed as a Mod for playing the game in his own way.

In any case, we all knew he was a raider from day one, we all knew he had these view points from the start. All he did was state them openly and as a player. What's the big deal? Is he breaking any rules? No. Is he doing anything he can't do as a normal player? No. Is he abusing his Mod powers? No.

So basically this proposal has nothing to do what Mall did as a Mod, but rather what he did as a player. The people who support it want to remove him from the Mod team to "punish" him for his actions as a player, and that, my friend, is no bueno.

Nice try. It was within SC rules, but intentionally posting a topic to piss people off, and in which you admit you had no other motive other than to grief people, then you are not within NS rules.

[Urmanian]

So basically this proposal has nothing to do what Mall did as a Mod, but rather what he did as a player. The people who support it want to remove him from the Mod team to "punish" him for his actions as a player, and that, my friend, is no bueno.

He knowingly or unknowingly created a major shitstorm and divided the NS community, disrupted forum activity. No matter how he did it. That's unbecoming of a mod in any case.

[Bentus]

So basically this proposal has nothing to do what Mall did as a Mod, but rather what he did as a player. The people who support it want to remove him from the Mod team to "punish" him for his actions as a player, and that, my friend, is no bueno.

Ok, so I get your anger with regards to trying to get Mall to resign - fair enough. How about the issue of RP regions being vulnerable to R/D? Would you be willing for some new tool to be introduced to NS to make it more difficult (not necessarily impossible) to raid certain regions? Imo the password system can be exploited, and is.

[Thelza]

I'm Signing This

[Hobbesistan]

For the record, it's Hobbes, not hobble, and I don't consider myself that dense.

Well I guess you didn't get the joke then.

'And leningrad needs to be fired out of a cannon and into the sun'

Not nice, You guys should really work on sealing those leaks in your forum before posting dirt, They'res a lot of leaks.

[Evil Wolf]

Nice try. It was within SC rules, but intentionally posting a topic to piss people off, and in which you admit you had other motive other than to grief people, then you are not within NS rules.

I am inclined to think that if what he did was not within the NS rules, the Game Mods or the Admin would have warned him publicly for his offense, just as they would any player that breaks the NS rules here on the forum.

They have not, therefore I must reach the conclusion that he did not go outside NS rules.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

Does it have to be that way?
Is there no conceivable way to have an account on NS and not be in the R/D game (I'm assuming all nations have to be in regions)?
And if that's the case, then our argument is SHOULD that be the case? If not, then how do we change it?

Password the region, although mall is proving thats exploitable.

Have a active founder is #1, Founder passwords can't be liberated and he can eject the delegate if he gets rouge/gets raided at his will.

"I can't wait to go home and see how my region is doing!"

:Gets into a Car Accident and dies:

Whelp....thats one down...Mall?

Well passwords are gone too as a safety measure...theoretically...

I wonder if this issue will rise up more often as RP regions move to fight against this shit...

The Mods and all that would have to do something eventually.

[The Leningrad Union]

Well I guess you didn't get the joke then.

'And leningrad needs to be fired out of a cannon and into the sun'

Not nice, You guys should really work on sealing those leaks in your forum before posting dirt, They'res a lot of leaks.

Why would anyone say something so disrespectful? I thought you people had at least a little dignity in you but I guess not! I'm really hurt by this and I demand an apology from whoever made that vile comment wishing for my death because of my postings on an internet forum.

[Hobbesistan]

Password the region, although mall is proving thats exploitable.

Have a active founder is #1, Founder passwords can't be liberated and he can eject the delegate if he gets rouge/gets raided at his will.

"I can't wait to go home and see how my region is doing!"

:Gets into a Car Accident and dies:

Whelp....thats one down...Mall?

Well passwords are gone too as a safety measure...theoretically...

I wonder if this issue will rise up more often as RP regions move to fight against this shit...

The Mods and all that would have to do something eventually.

For the record, I was in a car accident 2 months ago the day my Commendation went to vote, that's a really, really, really, bad anology and i'm frankly pissed off by it, spending a week+ in hospital and having your car totaled isnt fun.

[Kylarnatia]

"I can't wait to go home and see how my region is doing!"

:Gets into a Car Accident and dies:

Whelp....thats one down...Mall?

Well passwords are gone too as a safety measure...theoretically...

I wonder if this issue will rise up more often as RP regions move to fight against this shit...

The Mods and all that would have to do something eventually.

For the record, I was in a car accident 2 months ago the day my Commendation went to vote, that's a really, really, really, bad anology and i'm frankly pissed off by it, spending a week+ in hospital and having your car totaled isnt fun.

...and he was meant to know that, because?

I don't think he deliberately meant to cause any offence by it, so I don't see why you're having to take it so personally.

[Bentus]

For the record, I was in a car accident 2 months ago the day my Commendation went to vote, that's a really, really, really, bad anology and i'm frankly pissed off by it, spending a week+ in hospital and having your car totaled isnt fun.

We're sorry you were in a car accident and we apologise if the analogy felt insensitive towards you. But come on, it works as an analogy (bit extreme yes, but still works) and gets the point across.

[Hobbesistan]

For the record, I was in a car accident 2 months ago the day my Commendation went to vote, that's a really, really, really, bad anology and i'm frankly pissed off by it, spending a week+ in hospital and having your car totaled isnt fun.

...and he was meant to know that, because?

I don't think he deliberately meant to cause any offence by it, so I don't see why you're having to take it so personally.

Because it's a bad analogy, i may have overreacted a bit but its still a frankly terrible analogy.