Open Letter From the Mentor Team, Re: Security Council

[Hurdegaryp]

So the argument is the RP are "forced" take part in R/D by matter of being in NS?

Well, duh, its in the FAQ, it's something everyone agrees to every single time they make a new nation. You agreed to be subject to R/D when you clicked "I have read and agree to the NationStates.net Terms & Conditions." when you made your nation. At this point you're just arguing over semantics. You had the opportunity to say "that's something I don't want to be part of" and walk away. You didn't, you're here, it's part of the game and it's not going away.

You just keep adding more lies to the ones you already made.

[Lubyak]

So the argument is the RP are "forced" take part in R/D by matter of being in NS?

Well, duh, its in the FAQ, it's something everyone agrees to every single time they make a new nation. You agreed to be subject to R/D when you clicked "I have read and agree to the NationStates.net Terms & Conditions." when you made your nation. At this point you're just arguing over semantics. You had the opportunity to say "that's something I don't want to be part of" and walk away. You didn't, you're here, it's part of the game and it's not going away.

Except R/D is nothing but a glorified bug. A bug which won the approval of Max Barry, yes and is now not going to be fixed but as has been described, is nothing more than an abuse of the system to legally bully and troll. We signed up for 'gameplay' involving issues, voting on resolutions, etc. We did not sigh up for a game where years of work can be destroyed because a bunch of other players decided we'd be a 'good target' and decides to have their form of 'fun'. Besides, RP is given as much space in the FAQ as R/D, so it shouldn't be turning into something where R/D is pushed above RP to the point where the only solution offered is for RP to leave the forum.

[Great Nepal]

So the argument is the RP are "forced" take part in R/D by matter of being in NS?

Well, duh, its in the FAQ, it's something everyone agrees to every single time they make a new nation. You agreed to be subject to R/D when you clicked "I have read and agree to the NationStates.net Terms & Conditions." when you made your nation. At this point you're just arguing over semantics. You had the opportunity to say "that's something I don't want to be part of" and walk away. You didn't, you're here, it's part of the game and it's not going away.

Here's the copy of where you said every nation agreed to be in R/D. Please highlight the exact portion where this is agreed to:

Terms & Conditions of Use
In English

NationStates is a free online political game. Players should respect the fun, playful atmosphere of the game, and remain civil when interacting with each other. However, this is politics, and there are more players than moderators, so someone may post content that you find objectionable. By continuing, you agree that you understand this, and that NationStates.net is not a publisher and not responsible for posts by players.

Please also note that the NationStates forums sometimes contain discussions of a mature nature and are not suitable for visitors under 13 years of age.

In Legalese

BY USING THIS SITE, YOU SIGNIFY YOUR ACCEPTANCE TO THESE TERMS OF USE. If you do not agree to these terms and conditions, do not use this site.

You may submit content to NationStates.net so long as it is not obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, or defamatory, does not invade the privacy or infringe the intellectual property of a third party, and does not constitute "spam." You may not use a false e-mail address, impersonate any person or entity, attempt to "hack" the site or another player's account, nor otherwise mislead as to the origin of information.

Should you breach these terms and conditions you agree to indemnify NationStates, Max Barry, and any and all employees, agents, administrators, moderators, volunteers, and affiliates associated with NationStates.net from and against any and all third party claims, demands, liabilities, costs or expenses, including reasonable legal fees.

You understand that this site is open to the general public, and agree that while using it you may encounter content posted by other users that you consider objectionable. You understand that while reasonable efforts will be exerted to ensure the site remains free from offensive and illegal content, the site administrator(s) and/or moderator(s) cannot control what other people upload. All responsibility whatsoever is expressly disclaimed for content posted by the general public.

You understand that this web site contains satiric content, and presents views and opinions exagerated for the purposes of parody.

Where your country of access imposes laws regulating this web site, you agree to use your best efforts to comply with them.

All content, services, and software on this web site are provided "as is" without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. You assume total responsibility and risk for your use of the web site.

When you submit content to NationStates.net, you grant the site and its administrator(s) a non-exclusive, royalty-free, worldwide, perpetual license to reproduce, distribute, transmit, and publicly display such content.

By entering the NationStates forum you assert that you are at least 13 years of age.

The portion of site content that has not been submitted by users is copyright under international law (c) Max Barry 2002-2012.

[Grenartia]

So the argument is the RP are "forced" take part in R/D by matter of being in NS?

Well, duh, its in the FAQ, it's something everyone agrees to every single time they make a new nation. You agreed to be subject to R/D when you clicked "I have read and agree to the NationStates.net Terms & Conditions." when you made your nation. At this point you're just arguing over semantics. You had the opportunity to say "that's something I don't want to be part of" and walk away. You didn't, you're here, it's part of the game and it's not going away.

You just keep adding more lies to the ones you already made.

Yeah. You raiders might think that since your blatant lies and intellectual dishonesty flies in WA that it'll fly here, but those of us with experience in NSG have the keenest bullshit detectors on the entire site. You might fool one of us (though that would be rare), but you'll never fool all of us.

[The Jonathanian States]

So the argument is the RP are "forced" take part in R/D by matter of being in NS?

Well, duh, its in the FAQ, it's something everyone agrees to every single time they make a new nation. You agreed to be subject to R/D when you clicked "I have read and agree to the NationStates.net Terms & Conditions." when you made your nation. At this point you're just arguing over semantics. You had the opportunity to say "that's something I don't want to be part of" and walk away. You didn't, you're here, it's part of the game and it's not going away.

A) Not really, no. The FAQ does indeed mentioned R/D, but nowhere does it mention it as being forced on everybody.
B) Still haven't replied to my answer to you asking for who should be blamed for most of the nations not being in the WA.

[Phocidaea]

I hope those WA delegates don't actually pass this. The majority of NSers oppose this. I hope they listen.

Well, how about this?

If you're in the WA, vote against it. If you have an alt in the WA, use that to vote against it. If you don't have any WA nations, join the damn WA and vote against it!

Seriously, joining the WA is literally as simple as hitting a button and going to an email account. Don't stand by the sidelines when you can take action with few enough clicks to count on your hands.

[MjolnirDoodle]

The proposal has just hit 38 again;(!) over half-way there, great! (!) Whatever interference/counters are running either need to step up or run more, I damn well don't want RP-ers living in fear that the Security Council will just remove their protection because of some "liberation" movement says so.

[Ruridova]

Is 'abusing the system is the game' the new 'it's only politics'?

Could be. Flag-switching time?

I added it to mine.

[Phocidaea]

The proposal has just hit 38 again;(!) over half-way there, great! (!) Whatever interference/counters are running either need to step up or run more, I damn well don't want RP-ers living in fear that the Security Council will just remove their protection because of some "liberation" movement says so.

Keep in mind that most people behind the proposal at this stage are probably raiders themselves or just anti-RPers. The WA as a whole is much more balanced, with plenty of good people in it.

[Ainin]

Oh, did they rule the "It's only politics" flag as legal again?

[Evil Wolf]

EDIT: So what the flying fuck makes R/D so goddamned special?

I keep saying the same thing about RP whenever RP players ask for an opt-out from Military Gameplay for RP and only RP.

Without getting into a long argument for the 1,000 time about how founders, non-executive delegate, and passwords can be considered a form of opt-out, the best anwser I've got for you is that it's simply allowed to be that way by Max Barry. It's part of the game, just as the Security Council, World Assembly, Forum 7, and, yes, Role Play, are all part of the game. Getting rid of it or crippling it would diminish Nationstates as a whole even if you don't personally like it, just as removing or crippling the SC, WA, or F7 would lessen the overall experience that is Nationstates.

Is Military Gameplay unique? Sure. Does that make it terrible and bad? No. And if you're not satisfied with that explanation and don't like how I support R/D because I enjoy it while you do not support it because you do not enjoy it, I refer you to this image:

[Phocidaea]

Oh, did they rule the "It's only politics" flag as legal again?

I think so, because they have yet to strike against those of us with them now.

[Ruridova]

Oh, did they rule the "It's only politics" flag as legal again?

So long as it does not specifically say 'Mallorea and Riva should resign'.

[Lubyak]

Oh, did they rule the "It's only politics" flag as legal again?

I think so, because they have yet to strike against those of us with them now.

They have. viewtopic.php?p=20802415#p20802415

[Ainin]

I think so, because they have yet to strike against those of us with them now.

They have. viewtopic.php?p=20802415#p20802415

Excellent.

[Scolopendra]

Except that raiding totally is legalized bullying, which means that everybody who willingly participates in raids is a horrible human being by default.

Argh why can I not avoid these things.

Raiders see the game as a competitive game and this is distinctly all-X-is-Y trolling. I wish, wish I could just get away with a 'knock it off' but your history over the course of June practically compels me to escalate things not with a warning but with a *** 1-day ban for trolling. ***

~Scolo der Mod

[Oppressorion]

Could be. Flag-switching time?

I added it to mine.

What's the typeface you're using for it?

[Ruridova]

I added it to mine.

What's the typeface you're using for it?

It's on an image editing app, not sure you can get it on a computer. The font is called 'Raleway' on the app.

[Glorious ReBublic of Alevstan]

Am I allowed to sign this? If so,

I wish to sign.

[Nationstatelandsville]

This is not a protest against R/D, for God's sake.

This is nothing more than a request for the right of the RP community - and anyone else, but said community is my personal concern - to opt out of it.

If you try and turn this into anything else, it loses all validity and becomes nothing more than a temper tantrum over how mean raiders are.

[Shaluach]

Yeah. I'm not too terribly sure how many still are signing this, but,

I wish to sign.

[Oppressorion]

What's the typeface you're using for it?

It's on an image editing app, not sure you can get it on a computer. The font is called 'Raleway' on the app.

Found it.

[Constaniana]

EDIT: So what the flying fuck makes R/D so goddamned special?

I keep saying the same thing about RP whenever RP players ask for an opt-out from Military Gameplay for RP and only RP.

Without getting into a long argument for the 1,000 time about how founders, non-executive delegate, and passwords can be considered a form of opt-out, the best anwser I've got for you is that it's simply allowed to be that way by Max Barry. It's part of the game, just as the Security Council, World Assembly, Forum 7, and, yes, Role Play, are all part of the game. Getting rid of it or crippling it would diminish Nationstates as a whole even if you don't personally like it, just as removing or crippling the SC, WA, or F7 would lessen the overall experience that is Nationstates.

Is Military Gameplay unique? Sure. Does that make it terrible and bad? No. And if you're not satisfied with that explanation and don't like how I support R/D because I enjoy it while you do not support it because you do not enjoy it, I refer you to this image:

Funny you should mention that, given how the moronic proposal that started this mess was made with the express intention of removing said opt-out.

[Swith Witherward]

Please add my name to the list in regard to upholding the belief that RP regions shouldn't be subject to RD nonsense.

That said...

An open letter to Mall,

First off, I am not going to call for your resignation. You came out the gate swiftly and with purpose when first appointed as a Moderator and your decisions were fair and thought out. I can appreciate that as well as appreciate the stern-yet-neutral mindset you brought with you; this attitude did much to dispel doubts I fostered due to your position within the raider community.

That said, it is an egregious thing to return after a week away and see the chaos which is churning across the forums here. I am disappointed, Mall, but not in your proffered opinion regarding Haven (for you are entitled to have an opinion!)


There is a higher standard, as you’ve seen by the voiced objections of the people. Again, I feel that you conduct yourself very well when Moderating. I dislike seeing you go through this (although you have only yourself to blame *nods*); I’m reluctant to see you removed because you really do outstanding work when functioning as a Mod.

And open letter to my fellow Mentors,

Very few are aware of how outspoken (read: seething mad) I am when it comes to RP regions being abused by the RD game. Mall’s proposition is ludicrous. Yes, we need to unite and express our grievances and those grievances will carry significantly more weight due to our appointment as Mentors. However, we must also bear in mind that we are expected to conduct ourselves in a specific manner. We must remain calm and seethe behind the scenes; we must stand strong and united, remaining a voice of reason, but while in public we stay calm in order to get our point across.

Unofficial speaking (ergo this is my personal opinion rather than that of a Mentor), I would like to see Mall’s balls floating in a cup of lemon water on my bedside table. This would serve no other purpose than to temporarily alleviate my animosity towards the proposal and, at the end of the day, I know Mall would prefer to keep his nuts and I, being human, am only venting frustrations in a very rude manner. However, stripping him of his position is very similar to clipping his testicles. His removal from office won’t change the unfair proposal at hand or negate the damage already done to the community and Mod Team.

I think by now he’s seen that he’s lost a lot of face on NS with those outside of the RD community. That is punishment enough. The loss of trust he has caused is more ominous than anything else… each time a member screams “unfair” at a Mod, rest assured that the puss comes from the wound Mall inflicted on the team itself by his actions. Again, my personal opinion which was formed by the copious emails and OSF IMs I viewed during the plane ride home this morning.

I’d much rather we unite to see that proposal defeated. We Mentors have the ability to rally our people. We have words we can use to sway public opinion and we can campaign to see Mall’s asinine proposal thrown out or else voted down. Rather than petition for Mall’s castration, let us petition for a rules change. RD is not more important than RP, nor is RP more important that RD. Both are equally necessary components in the blood that flows through this site. Let’s put our heads together and come up with something. The raiders will balk, as always. Let us take the high ground and use the system in our favor.

To the general public,

I realize that some of you are still very young. Teens and twenty-somethings behave a lot differently than someone who has been seasoned by three or more decades of life. It’s alright to be pissed off. It’s not alright to have a temper tantrum and do things such as protesting with rude flags or posting snark. That only makes us look bad as a group. Those who throw dirt lose ground and we can not afford to lose ground when the odds are so heavily stacked against us (meaning the site supports the damned RD game aspect).

“Anger is the enemy of non-violence and pride is a monster that swallows it up,” according to Gandhi.

Please don’t allow Mall’s action to cloud your opinion of Mods as a group. These are volunteers and not a hive mind. They do have a right to defend themselves from personal attacks leveled against them but, because they are appointed officials, they can’t vent frustrations or flame or troll or a host of others things. They have to maintain neutrality.

Please remember: not all X are Y. Not all Mods support RD. Not all Mods support Mall’s personal opinions. Not all Mods want to see RP regions raided.

edit: Miss Swith was in the wrong. I've edited accordingly and with heartfelt apology.

[Ruridova]

It's on an image editing app, not sure you can get it on a computer. The font is called 'Raleway' on the app.

Found it.

All right then.