Open Letter From the Mentor Team, Re: Security Council

[The Jonathanian States]

Is excrement still descending in here?
that is, shit going down

Well, what do you think? Better stay away from that place, it is full of methane.

I view the outrages and mass protests that emerge from time to time on NS (whether or not I agree with their cause) as "flashpoints". When I saw Mall's proposal and the initial response I just thought "here we go, flashpoint time..."

Plus, this certainly isn't over yet.

Undoubtedly the moderators will try to smother it, but the season is not on their side. It is summer, after all.

Aye. Maybe finally a summer has come that the NSers can approve of. Maybe finally this is our summer.
Before "This is your second Summer".

It's been coming down so much there's hardly any room left.

Or saying that black people in the US should have dealt with segregation by moving back to Africa, really.

Indeed. It seems to be one trait common to raiders, to never make an argument that isn't half-assed, and to always be condescending whilst doing so.

Also, I'm rather upset at Minnysota's warning for his/her/their WA draft to "Liberate Mallorea and Riva". Apparently, satirical proposals are actionable now. I half want to make a draft myself. Working title is: "Repeal Warn Minnysota".

DO eeeet!^{Author does not in any way take responsibility for mod reactions against such a thread, but will gladly endorse aforementioned repeal.}

>Abusing the system is the game

Holy shit.

Just, what the fuck.

Just what.

Is 'abusing the system is the game' the new 'it's only politics'?

Could be. Flag-switching time?

If it passes, then that would seem to suggest the majority didn't oppose it.

Or, you know, the majority of NS isn't in the WA.......

I hope those WA delegates don't actually pass this. The majority of NSers oppose this. I hope they listen.

Same.

I also wish to sign

It's rather inspiring to see all these people I've never met or even seen on the forums before all come here united in their response
...

same here. Though also suddenly seeing many faces flags I've seen all over the forums join up here is nice.
EDIT: Fix'd Registug Quote.

[Imperializt Russia]

It's been coming down so much there's hardly any room left.

Or saying that black people in the US should have dealt with segregation by moving back to Africa, really.

Indeed. It seems to be one trait common to raiders, to never make an argument that isn't half-assed, and to always be condescending whilst doing so.

Also, I'm rather upset at Minnysota's warning for his/her/their WA draft to "Liberate Mallorea and Riva". Apparently, satirical proposals are actionable now. I half want to make a draft myself. Working title is: "Repeal Warn Minnysota".

Questers got a warning for hacking threats, by paraphrasing Mall's line of "doing better with the [region] if it had no password".
I think that's even madder.

[United Provinces of Atlantica]

I wish to sign.

The Invado-'Liberation' attempt is unjust.

[Evil Wolf]

Or, you know, the majority of NS isn't in the WA.......

And whose fault is that?

[Registug]

Or, you know, the majority of NS isn't in the WA.......

And whose fault is that?

Don't go around saying shit like this

why does someone HAVE to join the WA? Who says they have to? Why should they have to?

[Evil Wolf]

Well, if the Security Council resolution passes, someone who refuses to be in the WA complaining about it passing is a bit like not voting for President and then complaining about how everyone else voted.

[Grenartia]

The significantly reduced traffic on this forum caused by such a poorly thought out policy would at least cripple the income of this forum, since all those unviewed adds will generate no profit at all. There are faster ways to destroy an internet community, but it's a start.

RP is a large portion of the site, true, but to suggest that RP is the only portion of the site worth playing and that it makes all the money for the forum is a rather grandiose claim. Just as NS does not revolve around RP, I somehow doubt that all it's profits (which I'm sure aren't much) are entirely from Role Play.

In any case, I enjoy the strangeness of this situation, where RPers act very offended when people suggest restrictions, as ridiculous as they are, be placed upon the RP community, but then those same RPers 1. are completely straight faced and serious when they talk about wanting to destroy the Military Gameplay community.

It's as equally a ludicrous and arrogant as suggesting the destruction of the RP community and yet many here seemingly don't see the irony.

Nope. I can almost guarantee you that 95% of the time anybody says "get rid of R/D", they're doing it satirically. Because we know that actually doing so only gives you ammo.

[Jordslag]

If it passes, then that would seem to suggest the majority didn't oppose it.

Not everyone is on the WA. Even fewer are delegates.

[The Jonathanian States]

Or, you know, the majority of NS isn't in the WA.......

And whose fault is that?

I'd say the FAQ:

Your nation can join the WA, but it's not compulsory. If you remain outside, you're unaffected by its decisions.

Considering it doesn't quite indicate the influence the SC (which requires WA-membership) can have on you, by acting on the region.
I mean, I had my nation remain outside, but I clearly would clearly have been affected if raiders had raided the region I was in(and say hidden my messages, just to make it directly on me) via a SC resolution...¹
1 - In my case they didn't, we didn't even have a password back then, but that's what hypothetical examples are for.

Well, if the Security Council resolution passes, someone who refuses to be in the WA complaining about it passing is a bit like not voting for President and then complaining about how everyone else voted.

More like an Autonomous region which always was left out of national politics suddenly becoming the hotbed of the elections, with some candidates wanting to remove its autonomous status.

[Evil Wolf]

Nope. I can almost guarantee you that 95% of the time anybody says "get rid of R/D", they're doing it satirically. Because we know that actually doing so only gives you ammo.

You're joking, right? There are two active threads right now talking about "opting-in" or "opting-out" of raiding with the suggested penalties for violating this "opting" process being Deletion. >_<

But I suppose those threads were all made satirically, so we can just lock them now.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The significantly reduced traffic on this forum caused by such a poorly thought out policy would at least cripple the income of this forum, since all those unviewed adds will generate no profit at all. There are faster ways to destroy an internet community, but it's a start.

RP is a large portion of the site, true, but to suggest that RP is the only portion of the site worth playing and that it makes all the money for the forum is a rather grandiose claim. Just as NS does not revolve around RP, I somehow doubt that all it's profits (which I'm sure aren't much) are entirely from Role Play.

In any case, I enjoy the strangeness of this situation, where RPers act very offended when people suggest restrictions, as ridiculous as they are, be placed upon the RP community, but then those same RPers are completely straight faced and serious when they talk about wanting to destroy the Military Gameplay community.

It's as equally a ludicrous and arrogant as suggesting the destruction of the RP community and yet many here seemingly don't see the irony.

See, here's what I find ironic.

You say that you need to have control over UCRs and that those who want to roleplay well tough shit, they can do it in their own little forums. What you fail to realize is that when that happens an entire section of the NS community will fade away because they will get used to their own forums and not get here anymore. Not only that, but once the RP community and their regions disappear you will target other non-gameplay regions and come up with the same excuse and drive them away too, so little by little this game will only be available to you raiders and your shenanigans, and you will have effectively made raiding an exclusive purpose of the site and you won't be happy anymore, you will get bored, and you will be effectively digging your own grave.

In a twisted sense, I can see this as a sort of poetic justice, or karma being a bitch.

[Grenartia]

Well, what do you think? Better stay away from that place, it is full of methane.


Undoubtedly the moderators will try to smother it, but the season is not on their side. It is summer, after all.

Aye. Maybe finally a summer has come that the NSers can approve of. Maybe finally this is our summer.
Before "This is your second Summer".

Indeed. It seems to be one trait common to raiders, to never make an argument that isn't half-assed, and to always be condescending whilst doing so.

Also, I'm rather upset at Minnysota's warning for his/her/their WA draft to "Liberate Mallorea and Riva". Apparently, satirical proposals are actionable now. I half want to make a draft myself. Working title is: "Repeal Warn Minnysota".

DO eeeet!^{Author does not in any way take responsibility for mod reactions against such a thread, but will gladly endorse aforementioned repeal.}

Is 'abusing the system is the game' the new 'it's only politics'?

Could be. Flag-switching time?

If it passes, then that would seem to suggest the majority didn't oppose it.

Or, you know, the majority of NS isn't in the WA.......

I hope those WA delegates don't actually pass this. The majority of NSers oppose this. I hope they listen.

Same.

I also wish to sign

It's rather inspiring to see all these people I've never met or even seen on the forums before all come here united in their response
...

same here. Though also suddenly seeing many faces flags I've seen all over the forums join up here is nice.
EDIT: Fix'd Registug Quote.

I'd be grateful for any assistance with it.

Indeed. It seems to be one trait common to raiders, to never make an argument that isn't half-assed, and to always be condescending whilst doing so.

Also, I'm rather upset at Minnysota's warning for his/her/their WA draft to "Liberate Mallorea and Riva". Apparently, satirical proposals are actionable now. I half want to make a draft myself. Working title is: "Repeal Warn Minnysota".

Questers got a warning for hacking threats, by paraphrasing Mall's line of "doing better with the [region] if it had no password".
I think that's even madder.

Indeed. Somebody should draft that one as well (I'm not quite sure about WA rules about submitting multiple drafts).

Nope. I can almost guarantee you that 95% of the time anybody says "get rid of R/D", they're doing it satirically. Because we know that actually doing so only gives you ammo.

You're joking, right? There are two active threads right now talking about "opting-in" or "opting-out" of raiding with the suggested penalties for violating this "opting" process being Deletion. >_<

But I suppose those threads were all made satirically, so we can just lock them now.

Only if you consider opting in/opting out to inherently be "getting rid of R/D" (which you'd have to admit, either implicitly or explicitly, that it is such an awful and shitty game that the only way to get people to play it is to force them, in order to argue that it is inherently "getting rid of" it).

[Horizont]

Nope. I can almost guarantee you that 95% of the time anybody says "get rid of R/D", they're doing it satirically. Because we know that actually doing so only gives you ammo.

You're joking, right? There are two active threads right now talking about "opting-in" or "opting-out" of raiding with the suggested penalties for violating this "opting" process being Deletion. >_<

But I suppose those threads were all made satirically, so we can just lock them now.

Seeing as R/Ders don't need to partake in RP, why should RPers be made to partake in R/D?

[Herrebrugh]

Nope. I can almost guarantee you that 95% of the time anybody says "get rid of R/D", they're doing it satirically. Because we know that actually doing so only gives you ammo.

You're joking, right? There are two active threads right now talking about "opting-in" or "opting-out" of raiding with the suggested penalties for violating this "opting" process being Deletion. >_<

But I suppose those threads were all made satirically, so we can just lock them now.

And the argument is that, if the only way your game can exist is through forcing people to play along, then it's shitty to begin with.

Note that all these suggestions only involve stopping people from forcing others to play along with their game, and not banning said game.

[Evil Wolf]

Seeing as R/Ders don't need to partake in RP, why should RPers be made to partake in R/D?

But...there are R/Ders that partake in RP >_<

[Horizont]

But...there are R/Ders that partake in RP >_<

Yes, and the point is that they do so voluntarily.

[Hurdegaryp]

You're joking, right? There are two active threads right now talking about "opting-in" or "opting-out" of raiding with the suggested penalties for violating this "opting" process being Deletion. >_<

But I suppose those threads were all made satirically, so we can just lock them now.

And the argument is that, if the only way your game can exist is through forcing people to play along, then it's shitty to begin with.

Note that all these suggestions only involve stopping people from forcing others to play along with their game, and not banning said game.

Even though many people would be perfectly fine with making the whole raider chucklefuckfest a thing of the past.

[Victoriala]

RP is a large portion of the site, true, but to suggest that RP is the only portion of the site worth playing and that it makes all the money for the forum is a rather grandiose claim. Just as NS does not revolve around RP, I somehow doubt that all it's profits (which I'm sure aren't much) are entirely from Role Play.

In any case, I enjoy the strangeness of this situation, where RPers act very offended when people suggest restrictions, as ridiculous as they are, be placed upon the RP community, but then those same RPers are completely straight faced and serious when they talk about wanting to destroy the Military Gameplay community.

It's as equally a ludicrous and arrogant as suggesting the destruction of the RP community and yet many here seemingly don't see the irony.

See, here's what I find ironic.

You say that you need to have control over UCRs and that those who want to roleplay well tough shit, they can do it in their own little forums. What you fail to realize is that when that happens an entire section of the NS community will fade away because they will get used to their own forums and not get here anymore. Not only that, but once the RP community and their regions disappear you will target other non-gameplay regions and come up with the same excuse and drive them away too, so little by little this game will only be available to you raiders and your shenanigans, and you will have effectively made raiding an exclusive purpose of the site and you won't be happy anymore, you will get bored, and you will be effectively digging your own grave.

In a twisted sense, I can see this as a sort of poetic justice, or karma being a bitch.

^

[Grenartia]

You're joking, right? There are two active threads right now talking about "opting-in" or "opting-out" of raiding with the suggested penalties for violating this "opting" process being Deletion. >_<

But I suppose those threads were all made satirically, so we can just lock them now.

Seeing as R/Ders don't need to partake in RP, why should RPers be made to partake in R/D?

I find it funny (and intellectually dishonest, though I guess that's why the Generalite in me finds it funny) that no raider (or even a mod or admin), to my knowledge, has ever provided an actual answer to that question.

[Herrebrugh]

And the argument is that, if the only way your game can exist is through forcing people to play along, then it's shitty to begin with.

Note that all these suggestions only involve stopping people from forcing others to play along with their game, and not banning said game.

Even though many people would be perfectly fine with making the whole raider chucklefuckfest a thing of the past.

I'm not denying that, of course. I'm simply saying that that's not a belief held by all people who oppose being forced to participate in the R/D game.

[Lubyak]

The significantly reduced traffic on this forum caused by such a poorly thought out policy would at least cripple the income of this forum, since all those unviewed adds will generate no profit at all. There are faster ways to destroy an internet community, but it's a start.

RP is a large portion of the site, true, but to suggest that RP is the only portion of the site worth playing and that it makes all the money for the forum is a rather grandiose claim. Just as NS does not revolve around RP, I somehow doubt that all it's profits (which I'm sure aren't much) are entirely from Role Play.

In any case, I enjoy the strangeness of this situation, where RPers act very offended when people suggest restrictions, as ridiculous as they are, be placed upon the RP community, but then those same RPers are completely straight faced and serious when they talk about wanting to destroy the Military Gameplay community.

It's as equally a ludicrous and arrogant as suggesting the destruction of the RP community and yet many here seemingly don't see the irony.

No one is saying we should destroy R/D, at least not to my knowledge. We're complaining that it is--in essence--legalised bullying and trolling, yes, but not advocating for it to be banned. The closest I've come at least is saying that if the R/D community is so utterly dependent on people being forced into it that it would die if players were allowed to opt out then it should not be worth trying to protect. Surely, if R/D is as popular as people say it is then there would be plenty of players who would opt in to play, no? As before, the RP community is annoyed that we have to bow before the R/D game, and in a way which is designed to FORCE us into playing R/D against our will, combined with the attitude on Mall's part that R/D can 'do more' with a region than RPers can. As before, RPers only want to be left to play our game in peace, but R/D constantly seems to force their way in.

[Nierr]

Not only that, but once the RP community and their regions disappear you will target other non-gameplay region

You know that most raids aren't of RP regions? To claim that RP regions are bring explicitly targeted for raids above any other kind of foundetless region is silly.

[Grenartia]

Seeing as R/Ders don't need to partake in RP, why should RPers be made to partake in R/D?

But...there are R/Ders that partake in RP >_<

They sure as fuck weren't forced to do it.

But that little fact inconveniences you, so you prefer to ignore it, amirite.

[Evil Wolf]

So the argument is the RP are "forced" take part in R/D by matter of being in NS?

Well, duh, its in the FAQ, it's something everyone agrees to every single time they make a new nation. You agreed to be subject to R/D when you clicked "I have read and agree to the NationStates.net Terms & Conditions." when you made your nation. At this point you're just arguing over semantics. You had the opportunity to say "that's something I don't want to be part of" and walk away. You didn't, you're here, it's part of the game and it's not going away.

[Grenartia]

So the argument is the RP are "forced" take part in R/D by matter of being in NS?

Well, duh, its in the FAQ, it's something everyone agrees to every single time they make a new nation. You agreed to be subject to R/D when you clicked "I have read and agree to the NationStates.net Terms & Conditions." when you made your nation. At this point you're just arguing over semantics. You had the opportunity to say "that's something I don't want to be part of" and walk away. You didn't, you're here, it's part of the game and it's not going away.

Dodging the point.

Every other part of the NS experience is totally voluntary. I mean, for fucks sakes, you don't even have to answer the fucking issues, and that's literally what the entire site was intended for.

EDIT: So what the flying fuck makes R/D so goddamned special?