Open Letter From the Mentor Team, Re: Security Council

[Virana]

What's the typeface you're using for it?

It's on an image editing app, not sure you can get it on a computer. The font is called 'Raleway' on the app.

It's a free Google font, for anyone who really wants it.

---

EDIT: So what the flying fuck makes R/D so goddamned special?

Without getting into a long argument for the 1,000 time about how founders, non-executive delegate, and passwords can be considered a form of opt-out, the best anwser I've got for you is that it's simply allowed to be that way by Max Barry. It's part of the game, just as the Security Council, World Assembly, Forum 7, and, yes, Role Play, are all part of the game. Getting rid of it or crippling it would diminish Nationstates as a whole even if you don't personally like it, just as removing or crippling the SC, WA, or F7 would lessen the overall experience that is Nationstates.

To be fair, a majority of our push is for a more solid opt-out function, not to get rid of R/D altogether.

Founders CTE, things happen in real life, and suddenly there's a region without a founder. Often when the founder is barely active, they need to give a WA delegate executive powers to maintain the region in their absence. And passwords theoretically should be the primary, most practical opt-out feature, except that passwords can be removed without any reason except that raiders think they can do more with the region.

So under these circumstances you have to understand the outcry here; it's less about getting rid of R/D (although some people have expressed their dislike of the game) and more about giving people a choice of whether they would like to participate in it or not. I've played before, I know what it means to a lot of people. And I want those people to continue doing what they want to do, as long as they don't trample over someone's right to opt out.

If you think giving a more solid opt-out would cripple R/D, then the game thrives on people not wanting to play it but still forced to take part—that is perhaps why some people oppose R/D as a whole.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Not only that, but once the RP community and their regions disappear you will target other non-gameplay region

You know that most raids aren't of RP regions? To claim that RP regions are bring explicitly targeted for raids above any other kind of foundetless region is silly.

No, but what you are suggesting is that once a region becomes founderless and is RP, well too fucking bad, you've become raider targets; and this will diminish the presence of these regions by a fuckton. Again, what I said was that you will, little by little, see this site devolve into little more than raiding and defending and the regions who participate in this will be the only ones to exist; while not only realizing nobody wants to play your game, but that you will be playing against yourselves.

Note, that I did mention that this is quite an ironic twist of poetic justice I am suggesting. Karma IS a bitch, and it can come bite you in the ass. You are bitching about having others to play so that you can feed off raiding their regions, but what when people stop playing because of you and you find yourself only with raider regions? You will have the same situation you are trying to avoid.

[Revanchism]

I would definitely like to sign this.

[Evil Wolf]

Funny you should mention that, given how the moronic proposal that started this mess was made with the express intention of removing said opt-out.

And if it passes it will be the first time in NS history that a blatant raider/pro-raider has been able to openly get a Liberation Proposal passed. Even Nazi Europe wasn't proposed by a raider, it was proposed by a Feederite who had an ideological reason for proposing it outside of R/D. Hi stoically, the chances of it passing are: it won't.

However, as a side point, a community vote, even if it is for the stripping of a password, is one of the most Democratic things one can do. If it does pass, it's the Nationstates community that made that happen, not strictly the game mechanics itself.

No one to blame but ourselves.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

-snip-

Thanks for the kind words Swith, you always know how to be eloquent.

[Constaniana]

Funny you should mention that, given how the moronic proposal that started this mess was made with the express intention of removing said opt-out.

And if it passes it will be the first time in NS history that a blatant raider/pro-raider has been able to openly get a Liberation Proposal passed. Even Nazi Europe wasn't proposed by a raider, it was proposed by a Feederite who had an ideological reason for proposing it outside of R/D. Hi stoically, the chances of it passing are: it won't.

However, as a side point, a community vote, even if it is for the stripping of a password, is one of the most Democratic things one can do. If it does pass, it's the Nationstates community that made that happen, not strictly the game mechanics itself.

No one to blame but ourselves.

Except NationStates isn't one solid community; it's a seething mass of different communities who are often rather angry at each other, like Belgium.

[Scolopendra]

Except NationStates isn't one solid community; it's a seeting mass of different communities who are often rather angry at each other, like Belgium.

May... may I quote that?

[Evil Wolf]

Except NationStates isn't one solid community; it's a seeting mass of different communities who are often rather angry at each other, like Belgium.

As is any democracy. It's the majority view point, not a unanimous agreement. Same can be said of all communities that embrace democracy.

[Shalona]

And if it passes it will be the first time in NS history that a blatant raider/pro-raider has been able to openly get a Liberation Proposal passed. Even Nazi Europe wasn't proposed by a raider, it was proposed by a Feederite who had an ideological reason for proposing it outside of R/D. Hi stoically, the chances of it passing are: it won't.

However, as a side point, a community vote, even if it is for the stripping of a password, is one of the most Democratic things one can do. If it does pass, it's the Nationstates community that made that happen, not strictly the game mechanics itself.

No one to blame but ourselves.

Except NationStates isn't one solid community; it's a seeting mass of different communities who are often rather angry at each other, like Belgium.

Well, that actually makes sense.

[Constaniana]

Except NationStates isn't one solid community; it's a seeting mass of different communities who are often rather angry at each other, like Belgium.

May... may I quote that?

I can't take credit for it; Esternial came up with it first in the latest opt-out thread.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

As is any democracy. It's the majority view point, not a unanimous agreement. Same came be said of all communities that embrace democracy.

Well, if you want to go with "democracy" how is raiding any "democratic" when you are forcing people to play?

[The Scientific States]

I wish to sign.

[Nude East Ireland]

As is any democracy. It's the majority view point, not a unanimous agreement. Same can be said of all communities that embrace democracy.

Never in a democratic organisation would the proposal "Take away a town's defence to allow another town to take it over" ever pass, nor should it.

[Evil Wolf]

Well, if you want to go with "democracy" how is raiding any "democratic" when you are forcing people to play?

If it goes to vote and the people allow it, it's as democratic as it gets.

I didn't say democracies are always moral, now did I? Also, speaking of democracies "forcing people to play" we have a name for that in Real Life. It's called "Laws".

[Monfrox]

Well, if you want to go with "democracy" how is raiding any "democratic" when you are forcing people to play?

If it goes to vote and the people allow it, it's as democratic as it gets.

I didn't say democracies are always moral, now did I? Also, speaking of democracies "forcing people to play" we have a name for that in Real Life. It's called "Laws".

Except that laws are put in place to protect people, not to force them into something they don't want to do.

We are conscientiously objecting to not be part of the R/D game.

[Horizont]

Well, if you want to go with "democracy" how is raiding any "democratic" when you are forcing people to play?

If it goes to vote and the people allow it, it's as democratic as it gets.

I didn't say democracies are always moral, now did I? Also, speaking of democracies "forcing people to play" we have a name for that in Real Life. It's called "Laws".

No proper RL democracy would allow such a law to pass, would it now? If it did, it would be a Tyranny by Majority.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Well, if you want to go with "democracy" how is raiding any "democratic" when you are forcing people to play?

If it goes to vote and the people allow it, it's as democratic as it gets.

I didn't say democracies are always moral, now did I? Also, speaking of democracies "forcing people to play" we have a name for that in Real Life. It's called "Laws".

Laws are meant to regulate and minimize harm from one another, not to maliciously kill people.

Cite one western democracy that says is legal to kill someone out in the street just to have a laugh. Go ahead, I'll wait.

[Nationstatelandsville]

If it goes to vote and the people allow it, it's as democratic as it gets.

I didn't say democracies are always moral, now did I? Also, speaking of democracies "forcing people to play" we have a name for that in Real Life. It's called "Laws".

Except that laws are put in place to protect people, not to force them into something they don't want to do.

We are conscientiously objecting to not be part of the R/D game.

As in any democracy worth a damn, we have the right to protest.

Of course, NS is not a public government; it can choose to take away said right whenever it likes. But thus far, we have it.

If it goes to vote and the people allow it, it's as democratic as it gets.

I didn't say democracies are always moral, now did I? Also, speaking of democracies "forcing people to play" we have a name for that in Real Life. It's called "Laws".

Laws are meant to regulate and minimize harm from one another, not to maliciously kill people.

Cite one western democracy that says is legal to kill someone out in the street just to have a laugh. Go ahead, I'll wait.

There is absolutely no need for belligerence. It can only hurt.

[The Candy Lane]

Please add my name to the list in regard to upholding the belief that RP regions shouldn't be subject to RD nonsense.

That said...

snip...
[box]To the general public,

snip...
Please don’t allow Mall’s action to cloud your opinion of Mods as a group. These are volunteers and not a hive mind. They do have a right to defend themselves from personal attacks leveled against them but, because they are appointed officials, they can’t vent frustrations or flame or troll or a host of others things. They have to maintain neutrality.

Please remember: not all X are Y. Not all Mods support RD. Not all Mods support Mall’s personal opinions. Not all Mods want to see RP regions raided.

The mods have supported Malls actions throughout this entire ordeal. From Sedigstan's "it's only Politics" and, "he's allowed to lie" post, to Scolopendra unjustly banning nations for flags, all these mods have shown that they have granted themselves free reign. Their failure to issue an official apology as a team shows that there is no integrity or humility left among the mods. If there are mods who don't want to see RP regions raided then they need to speak up. As for your bit about not being able to troll, I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not. Keep in mind a mod started this whole thing, not the people in this thread.

[Nierr]

You know that most raids aren't of RP regions? To claim that RP regions are bring explicitly targeted for raids above any other kind of foundetless region is silly.

No, but what you are suggesting is that once a region becomes founderless and is RP, well too fucking bad, you've become raider targets; and this will diminish the presence of these regions by a fuckton. Again, what I said was that you will, little by little, see this site devolve into little more than raiding and defending and the regions who participate in this will be the only ones to exist; while not only realizing nobody wants to play your game, but that you will be playing against yourselves.

1. Stop addressing me like I'm a raider. I'm not.

2. The R/D game has been around a decade now. If communities were going to be driven off by it, it'd have been during the period when regions were destroyed daily and people started IRL relationships in order to get people's passwords.

[Oppressorion]

I've created a new flag, but I'm in two minds regarding its legality - is it worth checking with tthe mods first?

[Evil Wolf]

Except that laws are put in place to protect people, not to force them into something they don't want to do.

Really? All laws? Even the unjust ones we've seen in so many countries that discriminate against certain groups?

There is a quote I am rather fond of, it's "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch".

The majority rules, and if Mall's proposal is allowed to pass, it's either because the majority approved it or the majority stayed silent and let the minority dictate to them via a vote that everyone is allowed to participate in. If you choose not to vote, that's all on you.

However, does this proposal make Mall a bad Forum Mod? Pfft, not anymore then Sedge's Coup of TSP.

[Horizont]

Except that laws are put in place to protect people, not to force them into something they don't want to do.

Really? All laws? Even the unjust ones we've seen in so many countries that discriminate against certain groups?

There is a quote I am rather fond of, it's "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch".

The majority rules, and if Mall's proposal is allowed to pass, it's either because the majority approved it or the majority stayed silent and let the minority dictate to them via a vote that everyone is allowed to participate in. If you choose not to vote, that's all on you.

However, does this proposal make Mall a bad Forum Mod? Pfft, not anymore then Sedge's Coup of TSP.

That's not democracy, it's tyranny by majority.

[Delmonte]

Except that laws are put in place to protect people, not to force them into something they don't want to do.

Really? All laws? Even the unjust ones we've seen in so many countries that discriminate against certain groups?

There is a quote I am rather fond of, it's "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch".

The majority rules, and if Mall's proposal is allowed to pass, it's either because the majority approved it or the majority stayed silent and let the minority dictate to them via a vote that everyone is allowed to participate in. If you choose not to vote, that's all on you.

However, does this proposal make Mall a bad Forum Mod? Pfft, not anymore then Sedge's Coup of TSP.

Oh, come on. You know how ridiculous that is.

[Imperializt Russia]

I've created a new flag, but I'm in two minds regarding its legality - is it worth checking with tthe mods first?

Doubt it.
From Scolo's clarification that's fine - it's only crossing a line if you're targeting individuals.