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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:03 pm
by Padnak
The Macabees wrote:I think it's (2). Edit: I'm also assuming that the technology has been developed to allow for transports of comparable size to large commercial airliners. Since it's for trade, I think we can be more willing to allow dubious PMT technologies -- especially since it really presents no technological advantage, as far as anything military is concerned.

I have a population of ~23.5 billion people. The country right next to me has a similarly sized population. Economies are usually characterized by economies of scale. The larger the market -- the more people there are in the market --, the cheaper the average cost of production. So, for a country like my own, this technology will not be prohibitively expensive. Granted, the cost of a civilian aircraft is already bound to be relatively low in large nations. But, aircraft can't cover the kind of distances that characterize NS -- a huge planet.

You're right that there's nothing inherit in the technology that makes it safer. You're right, if anything it's more dangerous. What makes it safe, though, is that if he enters the association, an attack on those routes are interpreted as an attack on the entire association. So, what makes those routes safe is the implicit support of an entire association. True, right now, that association is only me. But, I'm a pretty big country.


Seems completely reasonable

my main problem is PMT and MT is that it makes it allot easier for "OMG I HAZ BIGER GUNS THATS KILL ALL UR DUDES IN 1 HIT " kind of stuff to happen

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:14 pm
by Congreveopia
The Macabees wrote:I think it's (2). Edit: I'm also assuming that the technology has been developed to allow for transports of comparable size to large commercial airliners. Since it's for trade, I think we can be more willing to allow dubious PMT technologies -- especially since it really presents no technological advantage, as far as anything military is concerned.

I have a population of ~23.5 billion people. The country right next to me has a similarly sized population. Economies are usually characterized by economies of scale. The larger the market -- the more people there are in the market --, the cheaper the average cost of production. So, for a country like my own, this technology will not be prohibitively expensive. Granted, the cost of a civilian aircraft is already bound to be relatively low in large nations. But, aircraft can't cover the kind of distances that characterize NS -- a huge planet.

You're right that there's nothing inherit in the technology that makes it safer. You're right, if anything it's more dangerous. What makes it safe, though, is that if he enters the association, an attack on those routes are interpreted as an attack on the entire association. So, what makes those routes safe is the implicit support of an entire association. True, right now, that association is only me. But, I'm a pretty big country.


Ah, I do see the advantage for covering large distances, and I don't object to you using it as long as it doesn't affect the military aspect of this. Diplomatically, I guess it's not really much different than you offering to guard an air route, so I guess it's fine there. I was just curious what it was.

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:15 pm
by Congreveopia
Vancon, when are you going to reply to me?

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:19 pm
by Republic of Vietnam
Nation Name: Republic of Vietnam
Demonym: Vietnamese/ South Vietnamese
Capitol:Saigon
Leader:President Nguyen Van Thieu
Political system: Presidential Republic
Military Size:884,000 soldiers active
Reason for joining the conflict:Peacekeeping

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:32 pm
by Tuva SSR
Nation Name:Tuva SSR
Demonym:Tuvan
Capitol:Kyzyl
Leader:Premier Kayr Digyatov
Political system:Leninist-Gorbachevist Communist Democracy
Military Size:18 Million
Reason for joining the conflict:We will support Padnak and its Pacific ambitions.

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:33 pm
by Padnak
Republic of Vietnam wrote:Nation Name: Republic of Vietnam
Demonym: Vietnamese/ South Vietnamese
Capitol:Saigon
Leader:President Nguyen Van Thieu
Political system: Presidential Republic
Military Size:884,000 soldiers active
Reason for joining the conflict:Peacekeeping


Accepted!

Tuva SSR wrote:Nation Name:Tuva SSR
Demonym:Tuvan
Capitol:Kyzyl
Leader:Premier Kayr Digyatov
Political system:Leninist-Gorbachevist Communist Democracy
Military Size:18 Million
Reason for joining the conflict:We will support Padnak and its Pacific ambitions.


Accepted, under the condition that you tone down your military a little

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:33 pm
by Padnak
Congreveopia wrote:Vancon, when are you going to reply to me?


hes at school at the moment

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:38 pm
by Congreveopia
Padnak wrote:
Congreveopia wrote:Vancon, when are you going to reply to me?


hes at school at the moment


Ah, okay.

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:48 pm
by Die Erworbenen Namen
NOT TUVA

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:01 pm
by Congreveopia
Die erworbenen Namen wrote:
"Alright, we're approaching visual. If they didn't see us before, they're sure as hell going to see us now." The driver said, turning the ship only slightly, cigarette stuck in his mouth. Roberts was looking through the windows of the bridge, holding up the binoculars. There the rig was, surrounded by planes in the far, far off distance. Barely visible to normal binoculars, and actually quite a few miles away. Nothing that couldn't be reached by plane, anyways.

"Alright. Put the crew on alert and have the planes ready to fly as soon as they are needed. They might be destroyed if we're attacked." Rogers ordered, looking into the distance. There, the two C-1 Minis, 4 C-2 Seahawks, and one V-2B Shockwave were flying off to the rig, circling it. The three helicopters were soon approaching the rig, guns armed.

On the ship, men scrambled. The crews were rushing to get the planes on deck and ready to fly, running back and forth with tug lines and pushing the planes into position. They were hooked up to the catapults, where five could take to the sky at once while four more were prepped. But more men yet ran to the the sides of the deck, jumping into the fortified positions. This was the naval equivalent of a light open bunker.

It was a metal wall with patches of a rheoric fluid in between the two metal plates, with the rest being thin strips of metal. There, behind a layer of sandbags, were massive emplacements. Huge 5 inch guns with autoloaders rested in some of the placements, while two double barreled 40mm guns and 20mm revolver cannons rested in others. And yet more, with SAMs, populated the areas in between them. It was a massive monster that not a single person wanted to mess with.

*****

The chopper blades created a huge noise, the air shooting downwards and pushing against the doors and wing stubs of the hybrid helicopters, creating a racket. The noise was so great that the men wore headgear when they didn't have their helmets on. But through it all, they could still communicate through their comms and hand signals. And communicate they did, the leading officers of each squad getting the message through.

Lieutenant Emily was leading the rather large platoon of 30 from her position in the hybrid, with her squad of five holding SMGs. They all had the red berets on, as did the other 25. While her squad of five were armed with SMG-1s (some had Superposed underbarrel shotguns, including her), the other squads didn't have the exact same. In fact, most of them were armed with, indeed, carbines with a 2 shot burst. One had a grenade launcher, two people had shotguns, but for the most part it was SMGs and carbines, to fight in the close quarters.

The helicopter began descending, and Emily was passed the megaphone, to relay the message to the rest of the people there. Opening the doors, the .50 gunner inside cocked his gun, aimed it down, and looked around, acquiring targets. He didn't fire yet, but he would if needed. After a second, Emily spoke.

"Attention all aggressors! Attention aggressors to oil rig! Cease and desist now! All boarding parties turn back now or you will be fired upon. I have authorization to call upon deadly force if seen fit. Retreat now or I will use deadly force." She shouted into the megaphone, the message carrying over the sea. Over her, the two Mini Air Superiority fighters flew above, proving her point.


Wait... you just happened to have a satellite about as powerful as Hubble in the area, and then you just happened to have an aircraft carrier less than a hundred miles away?

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:05 pm
by Die Erworbenen Namen
If you read the post before that, the carrier was WELL within aircraft range (500 miles or so), and began moving closer. It's running patrol.

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:16 pm
by Padnak
Die erworbenen Namen wrote:NOT TUVA


Why not?

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:16 pm
by Congreveopia
Die erworbenen Namen wrote:If you read the post before that, the carrier was WELL within aircraft range (500 miles or so), and began moving closer. It's running patrol.


That feel wrong in two ways:

1: You traveled several hundred miles to a distance you can see them in probably less than an hour. I'm not quite sure how long the helicopters have been waiting to board, but I think it can't be longer than an hour.
2: Using very rough calculations, I think you'd need twelve thousand five hundred and six aircraft carriers to have a 1% chance of one of them being within 500 miles of a random point in the Pacific.

Feel free to let me know if I got my math wrong on either of those things.

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:20 pm
by Die Erworbenen Namen
Padnak wrote:
Die erworbenen Namen wrote:NOT TUVA


Why not?


Godmodding.

Congreveopia wrote:
Die erworbenen Namen wrote:If you read the post before that, the carrier was WELL within aircraft range (500 miles or so), and began moving closer. It's running patrol.


That feel wrong in two ways:

1: You traveled several hundred miles to a distance you can see them in probably less than an hour. I'm not quite sure how long the helicopters have been waiting to board, but I think it can't be longer than an hour.
2: Using very rough calculations, I think you'd need twelve thousand five hundred and six aircraft carriers to have a 1% chance of one of them being within 500 miles of a random point in the Pacific.

Feel free to let me know if I got my math wrong on either of those things.


1. THAT does feel wrong. I might fix it or change my statement.
2. NEVER TELL ME THE ODDS. No, I had an aircraft carrier within 500 miles or so (my planes have a really long range), but it was directed to the scene by other things.

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:22 pm
by Congreveopia
Congreveopia wrote:
Die erworbenen Namen wrote:If you read the post before that, the carrier was WELL within aircraft range (500 miles or so), and began moving closer. It's running patrol.


That feel wrong in two ways:

1: You traveled several hundred miles to a distance you can see them in probably less than an hour. I'm not quite sure how long the helicopters have been waiting to board, but I think it can't be longer than an hour.
2: Using very rough calculations, I think you'd need twelve thousand five hundred and six aircraft carriers to have a 1% chance of one of them being within 500 miles of a random point in the Pacific.

Feel free to let me know if I got my math wrong on either of those things.


Oops, I got two wrong. You only need about 26 for a 10% chance, which is still a lot (you'd need about 550 for guaranteed coverage of the entire world), but not by orders of magnitude. Note: I am not accounting for the shapes of coastlines, etc. I am assuming the Pacific is a gigantic square, which helps you.

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:25 pm
by Congreveopia
Die erworbenen Namen wrote:
Padnak wrote:
Why not?


Godmodding.

Congreveopia wrote:
That feel wrong in two ways:

1: You traveled several hundred miles to a distance you can see them in probably less than an hour. I'm not quite sure how long the helicopters have been waiting to board, but I think it can't be longer than an hour.
2: Using very rough calculations, I think you'd need twelve thousand five hundred and six aircraft carriers to have a 1% chance of one of them being within 500 miles of a random point in the Pacific.

Feel free to let me know if I got my math wrong on either of those things.


1. THAT does feel wrong. I might fix it or change my statement.
2. NEVER TELL ME THE ODDS. No, I had an aircraft carrier within 500 miles or so (my planes have a really long range), but it was directed to the scene by other things.


F/A-18 range is two thousand miles. With that range, you'd only need 16 aircraft carriers to cover the entire ocean (note: they will overlap. I am using squares not circles as the area they cover, because otherwise there would be gaps).

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:26 pm
by Die Erworbenen Namen
Congreveopia wrote:
Die erworbenen Namen wrote:
Godmodding.



1. THAT does feel wrong. I might fix it or change my statement.
2. NEVER TELL ME THE ODDS. No, I had an aircraft carrier within 500 miles or so (my planes have a really long range), but it was directed to the scene by other things.


F/A-18 range is two thousand miles. With that range, you'd only need 16 aircraft carriers to cover the entire ocean (note: they will overlap. I am using squares not circles as the area they cover, because otherwise there would be gaps).


I know what the range is. It's much more than 500 miles.

Want me to edit that?

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:26 pm
by Padnak
Die erworbenen Namen wrote:
Padnak wrote:
Why not?


Godmodding.



Noted

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:31 pm
by Padnak
LADIES

lets just all calm down and think up a reasonable explanation for how a DEN carrier just happened to be in the neighborhood

Heres an idea

the rig radioed for help once the padnaki's showed up, the carrier heard the call of help, sent out aircraft etc etc

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:32 pm
by Congreveopia
Die erworbenen Namen wrote:
Congreveopia wrote:
F/A-18 range is two thousand miles. With that range, you'd only need 16 aircraft carriers to cover the entire ocean (note: they will overlap. I am using squares not circles as the area they cover, because otherwise there would be gaps).


I know what the range is. It's much more than 500 miles.

Want me to edit that?


I'm okay with your post now that I've done the math to figure out it's not godmodding, assuming you really do have seventeen (one more so that they can cycle out for repairs) aircraft carriers just waiting around in the pacific for something to happen.

That said, you have just done the equivalent of seeing someone building a mine in the Demilitarized Zone, and charging out to shoot anyone who tries to stop them.

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:33 pm
by Die Erworbenen Namen
Padnak wrote:LADIES

lets just all calm down and think up a reasonable explanation for how a DEN carrier just happened to be in the neighborhood

Heres an idea

the rig radioed for help once the padnaki's showed up, the carrier heard the call of help, sent out aircraft etc etc


Never tell me the odds is a quote. :P

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:34 pm
by Padnak
Die erworbenen Namen wrote:
Padnak wrote:LADIES

lets just all calm down and think up a reasonable explanation for how a DEN carrier just happened to be in the neighborhood

Heres an idea

the rig radioed for help once the padnaki's showed up, the carrier heard the call of help, sent out aircraft etc etc


Never tell me the odds is a quote. :P


and a very good one at that :D

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:34 pm
by Congreveopia
Padnak wrote:LADIES

lets just all calm down and think up a reasonable explanation for how a DEN carrier just happened to be in the neighborhood

Heres an idea

the rig radioed for help once the padnaki's showed up, the carrier heard the call of help, sent out aircraft etc etc


The rig can't radio for help unless there's a carrier in the neighborhood already. These things go 35mph. Unless it's already in aircraft range, the carrier will arrive far too late to do any good.

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:35 pm
by Republic of Vietnam
Any changes needed to my IC post?

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:39 pm
by Congreveopia
Republic of Vietnam wrote:Any changes needed to my IC post?


Yeah, I think aircraft carrier radar is less than 300 mi, and I don't think you'd have one that close by chance (you'd need 700 aircraft carriers to guarantee coverage of the entire ocean).