Vapor: A Steampunk RP Region (OOC v.4.0 -- INVITE ONLY)

[Servoth]

I'd like to make a quick announcement to all the newly approved. If you'd like to make your way to the Wikia, we have, and begin writing your page articles, that would be lovely. Having the total collected information of Vapor is very helpful to all of us, it makes it easier for us to find relevant information quickly and easily.

The Wikia is located here, at NSVaporWiki. If you need any help with editing or understanding the controls, please contact me or Fan for advice. I'd also like to say this, please abstain from placing "the" in the title of your articles unless absolutely necessary, e.g. that is part of something's actual name or like this "Collection of the Red Things".

Thank you for your time.

[The knights of kings]

I was just refreshing myself with all the spoilers on the first post to make sure I adhered to the rules. Now this is low steam punk with some "cheating". I've been overhearing some conversation on how this Land ship which has caused quite a stir! How large was this rather rare land ship? I was hoping to create a walker which would be the size of a world war tank (being a walker it would be slightly taller of course). These things would be lumbering and slow, complex and very unreliable. They would serve primarily for defensive purposes and as a deterrent. A mean looking thug who keeps the rift raft thinking twice! Something for the people to put their faith in that a small nation still unaligned has a chance for survival. The walkers would be as armored and around the same size of a German A7V, thus the crew would have to wear protective gear as pieces of metal armor bounce about in a violent whirlwind of general chaos. If that’s too much steampunk Il go back to the drawings!

@Sarmandar: If you like I could create an intro rp in which we can work out the details of a mutual protection pact, perhaps even hammer out a trade agreement?

Edit: Wow...this wiki is...pretty stunning!

[Fanaglia]

(Image)

You didn't miss much, honestly. It was mostly having to do with new nation applications. You can see all of them and who was and was not accepted here. Actually, more than half of it was dealing with drama stirred up by a certain squirrel on cocaine sub-par applicant who wouldn't take "no" for an answer, so you really picked a good time to get frustrated and take a break.

It's not necessary, but you can if you want.

Yay!

If it is okay with you I'll create a new puppet, Novi Welgii, which population will be capped at 7 million. It will be a former colony of Welgium (which is a rather large nation.)

I have plans for this new nation and Welgium already has a different map and borders on nations not belonging to this region.

That's perfectly fine.

You're sorta being my neighbor! Cool! We'll get down to bond our histories and etc.

Kewl.

I made my first

Hybrid Combat Tractor Mrk I

Type: Halftrack
Place of origin: Novi Welgii
Service history
In service 1885 -
Used by: Novi Welgii
Wars: None yet.
Production history
Manufacturer: Schnitzenhalter & Wesserschwinzen
Unit cost: 45,000 drachmas per hull
Produced April 1884 -
Number built: 32
Specifications
Weight 16 metric tonnes
Length 4.75 m (15 ft 7 in)
Width 2.08 m (6 ft 10 in)
Height 2.16 m (7 ft 1 in)
Crew 5 (Driver, commander/gunner, loader, machine gunner, engineer)
Armour 10 mm
Main armament: Miehrkhnall 37 mm
Secondary armament: Schnehlsgiet 8 mm
Engine: Wivrehn Stomenmachiennern NW 40 C
Ground clearance: 40 cm
Fuel capacity: 185 kilos
Operational range: 120 km
Speed: 40 km/h

vehicle.

It is not OP for this group/region, is it?

Well, here's the thing. It looks fantastic. However, there's no way it would pass as it is in 1885 in our world. In 1885, Cyprum Xecuii had only recently invented the "gun tractor" (pretty much just self-driven artillery) and he and other nations gradually improved on the concept until we had Crimean-War-style steam tractors and veeerrry early tanks by the turn of the century. Technologically, our world is not much more advanced than RL was in a lot of aspects (three notable exceptions being flight technology, motorcars, and analog computers).

Now, I know admittedly little about tanks when it comes to things like armament and ground pressure and crew and armor and what have you. What I do know a bit about is engines and motor vehicles, which is really all a tank is. Your tank is similar in size and weight to the British Whippet light tank. Now, I don't know what sort of engine your "Wivrehn Stomenmachiennern NW 40 C" is supposed to be or how many horsepower it's rated for, but the Whippet had a fairly advanced powerplant for the time (two 45 hp four-cylinder gasoline engines) and could still only manage 13.4 km/h, which was actually considered fast for a tank at that time (especially compared to the 6 km/h the heavy tanks could manage). Also compare to the earlier Renault FT, which, released in 1917, was considered the world's first "modern" tank. It weighed half as much as the Whippet, yet, with its single four-cylinder gasoline engine producing an also-impressive 32.5 hp, still had a slightly lower power-to-weight ratio (5 hp/t vs 6.5 hp/t) and was thus slower than the Whippet.

When it comes to range, the Renault FT had a fuel capacity of 95 liters, which gave it a range of about 60 km (about .6 km/l, or 1.4 mpg). I'm using the specifications for the FT because there is not enough data readily available for the Whippet, plus the FT's single-engine design makes its numbers more relevant to this bit. Now, gasoline weighs approximately .7 kilos/liter; you said your half-track could carry 185 kilos of fuel, which would mean a fuel capacity of 264 liters. Using the FT's fuel economy rating, your tank would have an effective range of 158 km. However, your fuel economy would not be as good as the FT's. Your 40 km/h claim is simply far too fast, since it is nearly three times faster than the fastest tanks in WWI, but, if it did manage to produce enough horsepower to manage that kind of speed, you would burn about three times as much fuel and have about a third of the range, or just over 50 km. Even ignoring your claimed speed and estimating a more period-correct horsepower rating (we'll say a generous 40 hp), your single engine is still being called upon to pull a vehicle twice the size of the FT without much more power (specifically, 2.5 hp/t, exactly half the power-to-weight ratio of the FT), which would mean half the range, or 79 km.

Don't get me wrong. This is a steampunk RP group, but it's "low fantasy," meaning it's more realistic than fantasy. The laws of physics can be cheated with a bit of number-fudging and technobabble, but they do still apply. Unfortunately, your tank would be overpowered for 1915, let alone for 1885 (and that's just considering the engine performance -- you'd want to consult with some of the other members concerning arms and armament). Maybe Nerf the numbers and push back the date of its introduction a few decades

EDIT: @ Mish: See? I can do math if I can apply it to something.

[The knights of kings]

Ah well that pretty much answers it for me! Il leave the walker idea for later. Instead il focus on an entry rp and working on the wiki.

[Fanaglia]

JOIN THE ALLIANCE! THEY WILL USE YOU TO FULLFILL THEIR EVIL IMPERIALISTIC DREAMS!

*Slaps Ard's knuckles with a ruler too*

@Inesea, post is trickling in. Expect edits.

Hey! That's my ruler! But she's right, guys. No recruiting. Bad minions. Bad!

You make a valid point on it not being so unrealistic that my people would remain isolationist, considering most likely their employers/owners of their vessels probably weren't exactly enthused that they never came back; I just felt lame pulling the whole "Yo, my people just decided to be relevant" card.

As for my history in the app, that was just a quick something I came up with as a skeleton for my idea. I'm beginning to work on something similar to the factbook that is linked in my signature, but relevant to what this new nation will be, and with much more history, major political/social figures, locations, miscellaneous details, etc etc as I enjoy creating those, it's one of my favorite parts of RPing actually, making the nation's backstory. Also, I'm planning on having my tech to be behind what the technology of probably a majority of the more established nations is considering I've been alone on my island for so long, just like how Japan's technology was behind that of the European traders that arrived there (anyone want to exponentially increase their arms manufacturing sector ). Ah, anywho, I'm rambling, but I am quite excited to begin my Vapor endeavor.

Skeletons are OK, as long as you've got some sort of vague idea to make sure you're not stepping on anyone else's toes. Most of us don't have much of a history (if any at all) before 1885, when we started this group at a railroad conference in my nation.

I was just refreshing myself with all the spoilers on the first post to make sure I adhered to the rules. Now this is low steam punk with some "cheating". I've been overhearing some conversation on how this Land ship which has caused quite a stir! How large was this rather rare land ship? I was hoping to create a walker which would be the size of a world war tank (being a walker it would be slightly taller of course). These things would be lumbering and slow, complex and very unreliable. They would serve primarily for defensive purposes and as a deterrent. A mean looking thug who keeps the rift raft thinking twice! Something for the people to put their faith in that a small nation still unaligned has a chance for survival. The walkers would be as armored and around the same size of a German A7V, thus the crew would have to wear protective gear as pieces of metal armor bounce about in a violent whirlwind of general chaos. If that’s too much steampunk Il go back to the drawings!

@Sarmandar: If you like I could create an intro rp in which we can work out the details of a mutual protection pact, perhaps even hammer out a trade agreement?

Edit: Wow...this wiki is...pretty stunning!

How large? Far too large. How rare? Not nearly rare enough.

Walkers and mechs are a really gray area. Above a certain size, you run into problems with balance and ground pressure. We did agree that small mobile suits like a steampunk versions of the Ursus series of combat exoskeletons (what Master Chief's Mjolnir armor in the Halo series was based off of) would be perfectly fine with some gyroscopes, hydraulics, and technobabble. Then Cygnar started making them bigger and bigger and pushing the boundaries more and more. Then it didn't matter how many rulers I broke over his steely knuckles. That being said, huge mecha (even quadrupedal) simply produce too much ground pressure to be believable, let alone practical. It hearkens back to what I called the "yeah right factor" in the OP. Even the comparatively small weight of a tank produces too much ground pressure for wheels to be practical, which is why they invented caterpillar tracks, to spread the massive weight around.

[Fanaglia]

@ The wiki: Thanks!

[The knights of kings]

I think I want my origin story to go off with a bang, literally. Kind of while the world's super powers were involved with themselves and bullying there way to the top, Prinnia served as a pleasure resort/Vacation hotspot. A nation where gambling chips and liquor flow through the streets like water. Prinnia, unaligned with any major groups as of now, depends on its strong growing economy in international tourism to appear harmless. With vacation resorts ranging from scandalous brothels to lucrative hot spring type baths, nobles and wealthy from all over the world come to partake in the debauchery. This provides the Prinnian government an ability to hide its militaristic ambition, but something is amiss with the government, they are having more troubles in there own backyard than they would admit. There is a mob like organization running in Prinnia, with the intention of making a fortune off a war in an insurance scandal and underhand deals with the war industry. Thus they plant several terrorist attacks to try and provoke a war Serbian style. How does this sound?

@Walker: Alright well Il see what I can do, but I think il try and move for something more realistic instead of pushing the envelope before im settled!

[Fanaglia]

Ah well that pretty much answers it for me! Il leave the walker idea for later. Instead il focus on an entry rp and working on the wiki.

NOTE TO ALL NEW MEMBERS USING THE WIKI:
Be sure to browse the "Technical" board in the forum before you go fiddling about with code, especially when it comes to templates. If you don't find the answers to any questions you have there, start a new thread on that board and we'll figure it out together if one of us doesn't already know.

[Fanaglia]

I think I want my origin story to go off with a bang, literally.Kind of while the world was involved with itself and bullying its way to the top, Prinnia served as a pleasure resort/Vacation hotspot. A nation where gambling chips and liquor flow through the streets like water. Prinnia, unaligned with any major groups as of now, depends on its strong growing economy in international tourism to appear harmless. With vacation resorts ranging from scandalous brothels to lucrative hot spring type baths, nobles and wealthy from all over the world come to partake in the debauchery. This provides the Prinnian government an ability to hide its militaristic ambition, but something is amiss with the government. There is a mob like organization running in Prinnia, with the intention of making a fortune off a war in an insurance scandal. Thus they plant several terrorist attacks to try and provoke a war Serbian style. How does this sound?

Me likee

[Cyprum Xecuii]

You're sorta being my neighbor! Cool! We'll get down to bond our histories and etc.

Kewl.

I made my first

Hybrid Combat Tractor Mrk I

Type: Halftrack
Place of origin: Novi Welgii
Service history
In service 1885 -
Used by: Novi Welgii
Wars: None yet.
Production history
Manufacturer: Schnitzenhalter & Wesserschwinzen
Unit cost: 45,000 drachmas per hull
Produced April 1884 -
Number built: 32
Specifications
Weight 16 metric tonnes
Length 4.75 m (15 ft 7 in)
Width 2.08 m (6 ft 10 in)
Height 2.16 m (7 ft 1 in)
Crew 5 (Driver, commander/gunner, loader, machine gunner, engineer)
Armour 10 mm
Main armament: Miehrkhnall 37 mm
Secondary armament: Schnehlsgiet 8 mm
Engine: Wivrehn Stomenmachiennern NW 40 C
Ground clearance: 40 cm
Fuel capacity: 185 kilos
Operational range: 120 km
Speed: 40 km/h

vehicle.

It is not OP for this group/region, is it?

Oh shit! I gotta work off of your stuff man, you're a hell out of a better designer for weapons than meh.

[Maashinia]

Yes, I do have some ideas on how I'm going to put it together. My origins being sailors will be the only thing that I feel could possibly be misinterpreted, but I figured that they would come to the island long before they'd have any real relation to what the current borders/political landscapes would be now of Vapor, keeping them impartial to current nations, and making it so I wasn't stealing any current nation's people as long as that sounds acceptable to you?

Apart from that though, my history was going to strictly adhere to what occurred on the island to basically bring up to speed where my nation is currently and how it arrived at that point. Hopefully that all made sense.

[Minroz]

I think I want my origin story to go off with a bang, literally. Kind of while the world's super powers were involved with themselves and bullying there way to the top, Prinnia served as a pleasure resort/Vacation hotspot. A nation where gambling chips and liquor flow through the streets like water. Prinnia, unaligned with any major groups as of now, depends on its strong growing economy in international tourism to appear harmless. With vacation resorts ranging from scandalous brothels to lucrative hot spring type baths, nobles and wealthy from all over the world come to partake in the debauchery. This provides the Prinnian government an ability to hide its militaristic ambition, but something is amiss with the government, they are having more troubles in there own backyard than they would admit. There is a mob like organization running in Prinnia, with the intention of making a fortune off a war in an insurance scandal and underhand deals with the war industry. Thus they plant several terrorist attacks to try and provoke a war Serbian style. How does this sound?

@Walker: Alright well Il see what I can do, but I think il try and move for something more realistic instead of pushing the envelope before im settled!

Sounds good to me~

Say, Who is Vapor's Switzerland here BTW?

[Welgium]

Well, here's the thing. It looks fantastic. However, there's no way it would pass as it is in 1885 in our world. In 1885, Cyprum Xecuii had only recently invented the "gun tractor" (pretty much just self-driven artillery) and he and other nations gradually improved on the concept until we had Crimean-War-style steam tractors and veeerrry early tanks by the turn of the century. Technologically, our world is not much more advanced than RL was in a lot of aspects (three notable exceptions being flight technology, motorcars, and analog computers).

Now, I know admittedly little about tanks when it comes to things like armament and ground pressure and crew and armor and what have you. What I do know a bit about is engines and motor vehicles, which is really all a tank is. Your tank is similar in size and weight to the British Whippet light tank. Now, I don't know what sort of engine your "Wivrehn Stomenmachiennern NW 40 C" is supposed to be or how many horsepower it's rated for, but the Whippet had a fairly advanced powerplant for the time (two 45 hp four-cylinder gasoline engines) and could still only manage 13.4 km/h, which was actually considered fast for a tank at that time (especially compared to the 6 km/h the heavy tanks could manage). Also compare to the earlier Renault FT, which, released in 1917, was considered the world's first "modern" tank. It weighed half as much as the Whippet, yet, with its single four-cylinder gasoline engine producing an also-impressive 32.5 hp, still had a slightly lower power-to-weight ratio (5 hp/t vs 6.5 hp/t) and was thus slower than the Whippet.

When it comes to range, the Renault FT had a fuel capacity of 95 liters, which gave it a range of about 60 km (about .6 km/l, or 1.4 mpg). I'm using the specifications for the FT because there is not enough data readily available for the Whippet, plus the FT's single-engine design makes its numbers more relevant to this bit. Now, gasoline weighs approximately .7 kilos/liter; you said your half-track could carry 185 kilos of fuel, which would mean a fuel capacity of 264 liters. Using the FT's fuel economy rating, your tank would have an effective range of 158 km. However, your fuel economy would not be as good as the FT's. Your 40 km/h claim is simply far too fast, since it is nearly three times faster than the fastest tanks in WWI, but, if it did manage to produce enough horsepower to manage that kind of speed, you would burn about three times as much fuel and have about a third of the range, or just over 50 km. Even ignoring your claimed speed and estimating a more period-correct horsepower rating (we'll say a generous 40 hp), your single engine is still being called upon to pull a vehicle twice the size of the FT without much more power (specifically, 2.5 hp/t, exactly half the power-to-weight ratio of the FT), which would mean half the range, or 79 km.

Don't get me wrong. This is a steampunk RP group, but it's "low fantasy," meaning it's more realistic than fantasy. The laws of physics can be cheated with a bit of number-fudging and technobabble, but they do still apply. Unfortunately, your tank would be overpowered for 1915, let alone for 1885 (and that's just considering the engine performance -- you'd want to consult with some of the other members concerning arms and armament). Maybe Nerf the numbers and push back the date of its introduction a few decades

Thank you for clearing that up.
Your fields of expertise are the exact opposite of mine. I wasn't that fixed on the details anyway. I didn't know what this vehicle would be up against so I kept some performance statistics deliberately vague.

Could anyone please tell me what specs it would be allowed to have?


And sorry about OP-ing it. I don't like it when people OP their vehicles and equipment and I am a bit ashamed that I was guilty of doing this very thing myself.

I was under the impression that the Vapor tech level was more advanced then real contemporary tech, judging from what I have read so far.

I didn't know about the official vehicle development history of Vapor. I'd love to read up on that. Is there a link you can give me? Also about the power to weight ratio stuff and the like you guys have already agreed upon?

[Ardkonia]

Say, Who is Vapor's Switzerland here BTW?

I personally think Nova Welgii could be a good switzerland analogue :)

[Fanaglia]

Yes, I do have some ideas on how I'm going to put it together. My origins being sailors will be the only thing that I feel could possibly be misinterpreted, but I figured that they would come to the island long before they'd have any real relation to what the current borders/political landscapes would be now of Vapor, keeping them impartial to current nations, and making it so I wasn't stealing any current nation's people as long as that sounds acceptable to you?

Apart from that though, my history was going to strictly adhere to what occurred on the island to basically bring up to speed where my nation is currently and how it arrived at that point. Hopefully that all made sense.

Sounds good to me

Say, Who is Vapor's Switzerland here BTW?

Culturally or strategically? We don't really have a 1:1 relationship with RL, so there might just not be a Switzerland in our world.

Thank you for clearing that up.
Your fields of expertise are the exact opposite of mine. I wasn't that fixed on the details anyway. I didn't know what this vehicle would be up against so I kept some performance statistics deliberately vague.

Could anyone please tell me what specs it would be allowed to have?


And sorry about OP-ing it. I don't like it when people OP their vehicles and equipment and I am a bit ashamed that I was guilty of doing this very thing myself.

I was under the impression that the Vapor tech level was more advanced then real contemporary tech, judging from what I have read so far.

I didn't know about the official vehicle development history of Vapor. I'd love to read up on that. Is there a link you can give me? Also about the power to weight ratio stuff and the like you guys have already agreed upon?

No need to apologize; you made something you were unsure about and you asked, which we all appreciate. Had you not done so, we would have had a situation on our hands like that blasted landship...

Vapor tech does tend to be a tad more advanced than RL tech, but most of it not significantly so. As a general rule, we've agreed most of our technology is about 5 years ahead of schedule. Some of our tech, though, in the name of steampunk, was allowed to become more advanced than that. Airships, for example, were, except for their engines (which were more or less period-correct), more like 30 years ahead of schedule -- so they have a modern construction but are much slower than their RL counterparts due to their old-fashioned engines. Our tank technology is also closer to 10 years ahead of schedule, as are our motorcars.

Much of our technology that isn't pulled directly from RL is based off of theories, experiements, and prototypes from the period. For example, the primary Fanaglian battle rifle is inspired by the Colt Revolving Rifle, which never caught on IRL because of some major design flaws. With these flaws dealt with, the revolving rifle is no longer impractical, super-cool, and, depending on what time period we're discussing, better than the more common contemporary weapons available. There are other examples of our technology being based on failed RL technology that was made to work via actual improvements or technobabble. Think of it like Jules Verne/H.G. Welles tech -- stuff that would have been conceivable and believable to contemporary people but for one reason or another may or may not have actually been implemented.

So as far as what specs you would be allowed to have, just take a look at some RL specs from contemporary tech and tweak them to suit your needs (like Nerfing them if the RL one is from too far in the future or buffing them if it's coming from the past).

Here's a link to the Technology category on the wiki: http://nsvapor.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Technology

[Welgium]

Thanks Fanaglia. It is more clear for me now.

[Fanaglia]

Thanks Fanaglia. It is more clear for me now.

Happy to help

[Vjiay]

I think the tactics are more 20th/21st century than the vehicles and equipment. The tatctics ate definitely more based on fire and movement than the wave formations of world war one. Personally I woildnt mind facing ten mechanized walkers, as ling as I have fifty of my infantrymen to launch rockets at them.

[Wirbel]

Oh, Wirbel, don't forget to update the region page with the new OOC.

Links updated

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

I think the tactics are more 20th/21st century than the vehicles and equipment. The tatctics ate definitely more based on fire and movement than the wave formations of world war one. Personally I woildnt mind facing ten mechanized walkers, as ling as I have fifty of my infantrymen to launch rockets at them.

A walker vs catapult would actually be interesting to see.

[Sarmandar]

I was wondering if I could move to the region as well? Currently I'm the only dweller of "Rhaea"

[Welgium]

I think the tactics are more 20th/21st century than the vehicles and equipment. The tatctics ate definitely more based on fire and movement than the wave formations of world war one. Personally I woildnt mind facing ten mechanized walkers, as ling as I have fifty of my infantrymen to launch rockets at them.

A walker vs catapult would actually be interesting to see.

Go watch Return of the Jedi then. Ewoks vs. Empire. Awesome stuff.

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

A walker vs catapult would actually be interesting to see.

Go watch Return of the Jedi then. Ewoks vs. Empire. Awesome stuff.

That's where the idea came from

[The knights of kings]

I was wondering if any nation had invented the camera? I think cinemas would be a wonderful thing to have.

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

I was wondering if any nation had invented the camera? I think cinemas would be a wonderful thing to have.

Mishmahig was it?