POW and War Crime Conference in Ceruleo (Closed)

[Ceruleo]

"Name, rank, serial number and date of birth are all that a POW is required to tell their captors. POWs are obliged to provide that information. There are no prohibitions on providing other information. I don't know where this idea that it's not okay to ask questions of POWs came from. They have the right not to answer and they can't be punished if they don't answer."

[Fatatatutti]

"Why are you insisting on arguing points into the ground, Stalina.

"Why can't you learn my name?"

If we can all agree that torture is banned then we can move on to the next subject.

"Our great-grandparents already agreed to that."

I don't know where this idea that it's not okay to ask questions of POWs came from. They have the right not to answer and they can't be punished if they don't answer.

"If they're no obligated to answer, what's the point of asking them?

"Since you're so insistent on the right to ask, you're only a short step away from condoning coercion."

[Ceruleo]

"Because you can offer incentives, you can trick them into divulging information, a good investigator will never lay a hand on the person he's questioning. Never raise his voice. By the end of it, the person being questioned will consider the interrigator to be his good friend and won't even realise what information he has given up. Random coercion is ineffective. Proper questioning is not.

"Also, I hate this slippery slope argument. People can draw a line and realise that the other side of that line is more wrong than right."

[Libertarian Governance]

"Is there a proposal for the wording of the interrogation part Newton?"

[Ceruleo]

-

[Fatatatutti]

"Also, I hate this slippery slope argument. People can draw a line and realise that the other side of that line is more wrong than right."

"If that was true, we wouldn't need to be here. You people have already crossed the line from where our parents were and our grandparents and our great- grandparents. You're already on the slippery slope.

"Offering incentives to treason and tricking people into treason are no different from coercing treason. Nobody with any respect for soldiers would do it."

[Jeniferia]

"I prepose we continue the issue tomorrow after having time to calm down and some sleep"

[Ceruleo]

"As it stands now, this would be our proposal for the beginning of captivity.

"Proscribed Treatment for a Prisoner of War Upon Capture

“At no time is a prisoner of war to be considered a criminal liable for the lawful acts of war undertaken by him or his comrades in arms by the capturing party. The prisoner of war is also not to be held in anyway responsible for the actions of the nation of their allegiance, comrades in captivity or comrades engaging in acts of war, both lawful and unlawful.

“Upon capture, the prisoner of war may be searched for articles of a military nature, including weapons and intelligence. At no time may items of a non-military nature be confiscated from the prisoner of war.

“As soon as is possible, to protect the safety of both the prisoner of war and the personnel of the capturing party, the prisoner should be removed from the battlefield and returned to a rear command post, or equivalent accommodation.

"Regarding interrogation.

“When captured, a prisoner of war is only required to give only their name, rank, serial number, military regiment, date of birth, nation of allegiance and failing this, equivalent information. If the prisoner of war declines to provide this information, he may be denied benefits accorded his rank or position.

“Upon enlistment, every soldier shall be issued cards, in triplicate, that include name, rank, serial number, military regiment, date of birth, nation of allegiance or equivalent information. Nations of allegiance may include any addition information they deem appropriate. On the reverse of this card shall be included the rights afforded prisoners of war regarding interrogation, performance of labor, and any other information the nation of allegiance wishes the soldier to be aware of in the event of capture.

“An interrogation of a prisoner of war may only be carried out in a language that the prisoner understands. Before questioning may begin, the capturing party must confirm with the prisoner that they understand that they have the right to refuse to answer questions.

“No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind."

[DeusII]

"We are in agreement with the proposed laws so far.

"However, General, you are not grasping some key elements here. You keep banging on about civilised countries doing this and that and how this was done sixty years ago, well have this. Any nation which assumes that any captured soldier in a period of war who gives information about his country is in no way committing treason - in my opinion any nation that assumes otherwise is more uncivilised as you are telling us asking questions is.

"You are presenting no logical reasons here, Castro-Stalina other than that of "oh, my grand daddy would not have ever have dreamed of such a thing" bring yourself together and face the real, modern world. And as a side note, was it not our grandparents that launched atomic weapons against defenceless enemy civilians sixty years ago?"

[Libertarian Governance]

Looking over the proposal for several long minutes Susan Antov begins to smile. "Libertarian Governance can accept the provisions so far.Providing the other delegates agree that would leave just leave in contention the amount of food and water, policies on escapes and the statement that they should be allowed outside for 2 hours a day. "

Then she stops smiling. "General Castro-Stalina, do you believe you can agree with this so far? It is a long way from the position of many of the delegates at the beginning of our discussion."

[Fatatatutti]

Any nation which assumes that any captured soldier in a period of war who gives information about his country is in no way committing treason - in my opinion any nation that assumes otherwise is more uncivilised as you are telling us asking questions is.

"Bullshit," the general said quietly.

"You lnow damn well that if a soldier gives out information about troop dispositions, battle plans and so on, most nations are going to consider them traitors. You can not possible be so naive as to think otherwise.

"The bottom line is, there's no point in asking about such things if you don't expect answers and there's no way you can get answers without exposing your victims to charges of treason."

You are presenting no logical reasons here....

"On the contrary, you haven't responded to any of the issues that I've raised. The only replay you've made to most of them is 'nuh uh'."

And as a side note, was it not our grandparents that launched atomic weapons against defenceless enemy civilians sixty years ago?"

"It certainly wasn't my grandparents," the general frowned. "Fatatatutti has never had nuclear weapons, much less used them, nor will we ever."

General Castro-Stalina, do you believe you can agree with this so far? It is a long way from the position of many of the delegates at the beginning of our discussion.

"I think I've made it fairly clear that Fatatatutti won't endorse a step backwards."

[DeusII]

"If all other representatives have compromised and agree to this so far but you refuse, I see no point in you being here, General."

[Fatatatutti]

"If all other representatives have compromised and agree to this so far but you refuse, I see no point in you being here, General."

General Castro-Stalina smiled to herself and shook her head slightly. "Who was the one who suggested the compromises? You'd have nobody to compromise with if it wasn't for me."

[DeusII]

"I am struggling to see where you form your ludicrous ideas from, General."

[Fatatatutti]

"I am struggling to see where you form your ludicrous ideas from, General."

"Good. Keep struggling. You might learn something. If you have specific questions, feel free to ask."

[Jeniferia]

The Delegate picked up his phone he started talking then put it down"We agree to the preposal"

[Ceruleo]

Newton leaned back in his chair, "Are we moving on to the specifics of the actual facilities that need to be maintained for prisoners of war or should we call a recess while we await a motorcade to take General Castro-Stalina to the airport?"

[Fatatatutti]

Newton leaned back in his chair, "Are we moving on to the specifics of the actual facilities that need to be maintained for prisoners of war or should we call a recess while we await a motorcade to take General Castro-Stalina to the airport?"

"I've suspected all along," the general said, "that your only mission here was to rubber-stamp approval of what you're already doing. Go ahead and prove me right.

"You have the power to stifle progress. You have the power to suppress dissent. You have the power to throw me out of your country. Until you do, I intend to speak my mind."

[Libertarian Governance]

"I would say move on to the specifics. Her motorcade shouldn't matter to us at all."

[DeusII]

"General please make talk constructive or do not slow our progression down. You're saying our aims are too low; one can not simply go right to the top, progress in more of a shallow curve. And we are all, unlike yourself, making compromises. For example it is currently at the discretion of the IC to shoot the prisoners or not and no trial can be held against him. This is not staying that way, is it?"

[Ceruleo]

"Well, General, Ceruleans always support the imput of others, even if we do not agree with them, at least when they are respectful. When others try and understand our point of view, we try an understand theirs.

"So now we should move on to the specifics of actual captivity.

"We feel that we should attempt to make it as comfortable as possible, allow correspodence to family and loved ones, allow care packages of personal and recreational items to attempt to mitigate the unavoidable hardships of captivity.

"I feel there should also be a method for a prisoner of war to express dissatisfaction with their accomodations or violations, whether intential, unintential, or unavoidable. I would also like to specify what labour may be carried out by POWs and what their compisation should be."

[Jeniferia]

"We unfortuently have to search any item of mail for prionsers to make sure there not smuggling in a gun or weapon"

[Ceruleo]

"Censoring correspondence and searching of parcels seems to be a reasonable necessity, but I feel we should specifically lay out what items would be banned and list a noncomprehensive list of items that is not banned. For instance, a detaining party may have outlawed a religion, but a person should be able to recieve a book of scripture or some such. Also, if we are going to be allowed to censor mail, we should lay out what things may and may not be censored."

[Libertarian Governance]

"As to prisoner challenges to their conditions of confinement we would propose requiring each nation to maintain an administrative appeals process that when exhausted would allow POWs to appeal the matter to the nations courts. By making a mandatory administrative process you give prisoners sort of a chain of command which could review problems fairly inexpensively and in a timely manner. "

"We use similarly methods for our prisoners. I would place a time limit of 60 days on the entire administrative appeals process through all levels. As for correspondence and parcels we see nothing wrong with something allowing censorship or reasonable restrictions to facilitate the secure housing of prisoners and their safety. I would say that the CP should also be required to provide writing materials and postage to prisoners. Maybe so they could post three letters a week?"

Susan drums her fingers along the desk for a moment. "I would also say that there needs to be access to the prisoners provided to humanitarian organizations like CARE. I would say such organizations should probably be allowed to inspect the overall conditions of camps every so often and where specific questions of mis-treatment exist be allowed to interview and examine prisoners. I would further say such organizations be allowed to immediately submit their findings to the nations court for redress."

"Other than that I would hope we allow prisoners the right to practice religion within reason of course."

[Fatatatutti]

General Castro-Stalina nodded. "Aside from what is contraboand and what isn't, I don't see much to discuss in this section. All you're doing is describing standard practice."