Future Tech Advice and Assistance Thread [O.O.C.]

[OMGeverynameistaken]

I would argue that, given the nature and variety of FTL systems available in FT that your geographic (stellographic?) location has little bearing on who your 'neighbors' would be, since sublight travel is pretty much right out for any kind of interstellar travel.

Your 'neighbors' are the people who can get to you fastest, which basically means, in no particular order:

-People who are actually in the same system as you and therefore within sublight range.
-People who are physically closest to you and use FTL systems which either work in realspace (Star Trek's warp drives,) or which work in dimensions who's arrangements of physical bodies are roughly similar to realspace (Star Wars' hyperspace.)
-People who are linked up to whatever wormhole/warp gate/black hole handwave portal is in or near your system.
-Anybody else who is somehow within roughly, say, a month's travel of you depending on the nature and speed of their drive systems.

Space Russia's FTL is essentially based on extradimensional travel to a plane which has little physical relation to our own, resulting in portals which pop up in all sorts of bizarre places. A portal in another galaxy can exist right next to one to a system a couple light years away. So anybody can be our neighbors.

[Kyrusia]

[snip]

First and foremost, if you have not already, read over the original post of this thread. While written by myself, its introductory nature, terms, etc., have been compiled by numerous and well-respected players within the Future Technology community and (I feel, at least) it serves as an adequate introduction to the community and tech-level as a whole.

Secondly, begin immersing yourself in the community as a whole. Again, linked in the original post, are IRC channels most pertinent to those completely unfamiliar with Future Technology. They serve, hopefully, as a gateway to the community and tech-level and allow both newer and more experienced players immediate access to other players in FT with the freedom of immediate response. You might also consider dropping by "The Local Cluster", a region ran by several established Future Tech players (and accompanied by FT-oriented Mentors) that generally serves as a "starting point" where players can branch-out and come into contact with other parts of the community. Mind you, regions - In-Character, at least - do not play much of a role in FT, unlike how they do in MT; they are mostly utilized as an easy way to organize players and collaborators in an Out-of-Character fashion - which is, hopefully, what TLC accomplishes.

Next, you should probably begin thinking about what you want your civilization to be in Future Tech. This is the most important and most comprehensive part of this process and, pretty much, will never be completed. Future Tech players are constantly world-building, creating, and adapting their civilizations, entities, and concepts based upon interaction with others, discussions with other players, and overall grow as their player grows. This is convenient given that, unlike other tech-levels, FT moves at a fairly leisurely place; you need not feel pressured to immediately slap together a stellar society and throw it into a roleplay. I often advise (new players, especially), to sit with a concept, think upon it, and build upon it; an analogy might be to how a clam produces a pearl: you take the grain of sand (your concepts, ideas, etc.) and polish them into a pearl.

Now, as mentioned, this is an essentially perpetual process. You will always find new ways, new avenues, and new methods for making your civilization, star state, etc. feel more alive, build more detail, and adapt more creative facets to it. Don't feel too overwhelmed; we've all had to do this, and many of us - whether a Mentor or not a Mentor - are more than willing to provide you with assistance. All you need to is but ask, as you have done; that is a big part of getting to know the Future Tech community: most FT'ers are very willing to help newer players and answer questions as they understand them, and players should not feel pressured to be silent if they have questions. Please, feel free to ask.

As for further reading I might recommend beyond the original post of this thread, I would definitely suggest giving Rethan's guide, "Roleplaying as Humans and Aliens", a read; also, I would strongly suggest reading-over Hyperspatial Travel's often-linked post on size in relation to Future Tech. No doubt both of these would have gotten linked to you at some point.

Lastly, again: immerse yourself in the Future Technology community. Talk with other players on the IRC channels, ask for advice and assistance here (though this is not a "chat thread", I should note), and possibly even drop by The Local Cluster at your leisure for a little bit of networking with other players (some who do not or cannot frequent the IRC's linked; it also links other IRC channels there, as well). Hopefully this will give you a bit of a starting point without overwhelming you too terribly much; again, we've all gone through this process in our own time and many of us are willing to help you in whatever way we can.

Hope that helps.

[Western Imperial Union]

Ooooooooooo Razmatag

[The United Remnants of America]

I would be curious about that, it would be something my Black Sun group would be very keen on acquiring for profiterr, study.

It sounds like you may have a finished idea there for the most part, like you said, only needing other participants. I like it verreh much. :>

Thank you for that. I've considered that maybe the box should have some sort of discordant power of its own, and knowing what's inside, that would be possible. This power would be a stop gap measure in case the guards were defeated, or the unexpected happened. It may very well be that my believing I'm missing something is merely the hidden gleamings of perfectionism hiding behind the desire to want to do things properly.

I think, I think perhaps I'll go ahead and devise the OOC thread for sign-ups and what not, probably limit it to ten players max.

It sounds kinda MacGuffin-y.

[Warhaven]

It sounds kinda MacGuffin-y.

It's an actual treasure box, so it really isn't.

[Vocenae]

Slow does not equal inactive.

[The Fedral Union]

Slow does not equal inactive.

Indeed not, things like life get in the way of NS I was referring to the time where Beta and Gamma had more folks doing things, then they do now a days :/

(yeee olde timey here)

Alas some may CTE or been changed. Course this brings up another thing, FT is not as fast paced as MT and it depends on the rp; so a good rp may take months rl to finish.

[Zerinfriom]

Hey,

What is the best overall navy size for a FT empire that controls 45% of a 250,000 wide galaxy, and has other pockets of colonies in other galaxies.

[Feazanthia]

Hey,

What is the best overall navy size for a FT empire that controls 45% of a 250,000 wide galaxy, and has other pockets of colonies in other galaxies.

Umm...


Yeah. Just a word of advice? Going around claiming you control half a galaxy is not going to make people want to RP with you. If you insist on it, incorporate some fluff mechanic that keeps 90%+ of you economy/government/military occupied at one time.

[Zerinfriom]

Hey,

What is the best overall navy size for a FT empire that controls 45% of a 250,000 wide galaxy, and has other pockets of colonies in other galaxies.

Umm...


Yeah. Just a word of advice? Going around claiming you control half a galaxy is not going to make people want to RP with you. If you insist on it, incorporate some fluff mechanic that keeps 90%+ of you economy/government/military occupied at one time.

Well okay, 34%

My Military is constantly doing war games, dealing with pirates etc.
My economy relies on both foreign, and "domestic" trade, every planet trades with every planet, while our trade ships are constantly going too other worlds,
The government is constantly discussing issues of diplomacy, new laws, and rights, and negotiating with other species, and countries.

We are a very honorable species, and have many species under our control, but they have the same rights as an ordinary citizen.

We have a few "vassal" states that experience their own freedom from the governments,

[Feazanthia]

Umm...


Yeah. Just a word of advice? Going around claiming you control half a galaxy is not going to make people want to RP with you. If you insist on it, incorporate some fluff mechanic that keeps 90%+ of you economy/government/military occupied at one time.

Well okay, 34%

My Military is constantly doing war games, dealing with pirates etc.
My economy relies on both foreign, and "domestic" trade, every planet trades with every planet, while our trade ships are constantly going too other worlds,
The government is constantly discussing issues of diplomacy, new laws, and rights, and negotiating with other species, and countries.

We are a very honorable species, and have many species under our control, but they have the same rights as an ordinary citizen.

We have a few "vassal" states that experience their own freedom from the governments,

No, you're missing my point. Here, I'll give you an example.

The Kiith Federation (my primary nation) is but one of a small handful of political bodies that make up the Feazanthian Dominion. The Dominion, and by extension the Kiith, span most of one of the globular clusters in the Fornax Galaxy - roughly 1/6th of the whole thing. This is an absurd amount of territory, especially when you look at the average size of a player-controlled nation in the Milky Way (usually 1-5 star systems). However, the Kiith presence in the Milky Way galaxy is small. Very small. There are only roughly 80 combat capital ships of Kiith origin in the MWG. Why is this?

Because the Milky Way galaxy is very far from home, and ultimately not very important to the Kiith. Interesting, sure. A source of wealth and trade? Absolutely. An avenue for expansion? In a manner of speaking. But ultimately, the Milky Way Expedition is not as important enough to allocate many resources to. There is considerable political pressure for various clans to keep their forces right where they are, it costs an obscene amount of money to ship anything over intergalactic distances, and the ruling government just doesn't make it that high a priority.


You see what I'm saying? The Milky Way Galaxy is where 95% of FT RP takes place. Well played, an extragalactic empire can be interesting backstory. It can be fluff, a characteristic of your nation that influences how it deals with others. Hell, one must even ask "Why is my empire even bothering to expand into the MWG". But asking "Hey I have a galaxy-spanning empire, how many ships should I be able to crush people with?" is none of these things. Roleplay is a two-way street. If people think you're just going to go "I deploy 50,000 battleships, post losses", they're not going to RP with you. Ever. But, if you can only ever deploy a few dozen star ships because that's all your government is willing to deploy to the MWG in the first place (to defend a similarly small amount of territory in the MWG), then people will be much more receptive.

TL;DR - Galaxy-spanning empires are backstory, not generators for infinite fleets.

[Zerinfriom]

Well okay, 34%

My Military is constantly doing war games, dealing with pirates etc.
My economy relies on both foreign, and "domestic" trade, every planet trades with every planet, while our trade ships are constantly going too other worlds,
The government is constantly discussing issues of diplomacy, new laws, and rights, and negotiating with other species, and countries.

We are a very honorable species, and have many species under our control, but they have the same rights as an ordinary citizen.

We have a few "vassal" states that experience their own freedom from the governments,

No, you're missing my point. Here, I'll give you an example.

The Kiith Federation (my primary nation) is but one of a small handful of political bodies that make up the Feazanthian Dominion. The Dominion, and by extension the Kiith, span most of one of the globular clusters in the Fornax Galaxy - roughly 1/6th of the whole thing. This is an absurd amount of territory, especially when you look at the average size of a player-controlled nation in the Milky Way (usually 1-5 star systems). However, the Kiith presence in the Milky Way galaxy is small. Very small. There are only roughly 80 combat capital ships of Kiith origin in the MWG. Why is this?

Because the Milky Way galaxy is very far from home, and ultimately not very important to the Kiith. Interesting, sure. A source of wealth and trade? Absolutely. An avenue for expansion? In a manner of speaking. But ultimately, the Milky Way Expedition is not as important enough to allocate many resources to. There is considerable political pressure for various clans to keep their forces right where they are, it costs an obscene amount of money to ship anything over intergalactic distances, and the ruling government just doesn't make it that high a priority.


You see what I'm saying? The Milky Way Galaxy is where 95% of FT RP takes place. Well played, an extragalactic empire can be interesting backstory. It can be fluff, a characteristic of your nation that influences how it deals with others. Hell, one must even ask "Why is my empire even bothering to expand into the MWG". But asking "Hey I have a galaxy-spanning empire, how many ships should I be able to crush people with?" is none of these things. Roleplay is a two-way street. If people think you're just going to go "I deploy 50,000 battleships, post losses", they're not going to RP with you. Ever. But, if you can only ever deploy a few dozen star ships because that's all your government is willing to deploy to the MWG in the first place (to defend a similarly small amount of territory in the MWG), then people will be much more receptive.

TL;DR - Galaxy-spanning empires are backstory, not generators for infinite fleets.

I know, but within that empire is planets with lots of metals,

I just want too know what is the best size for my entire navy, I am not going for the 50,000 battleships post losses ideal, I am going for stories, that people wish too read, but part of those stories are numbers, and I want too know what is the best number for my entire navy that is all I want too know, that is all I asked for. Nothing more, nothing less. I will build up, and stenghten my nation's back story, and history, and government, and etc over time, but I just wish too know the answer too this one question,

For a nation that controls 45% of it's home galaxy (not MWG) what is the best size for it's navy size?
Heck what about 34% this is all I asked.
I don't want too be pimp slapped with information I either already know, or information I didn't come for, and have no need for.

Listen all I asked is one question, and you failed too answer that question.

Sorry if I offended you.

[SquareDisc City]

As a very rough, order-of-magnitude estimate, one warship per million people. Of course that just shifts the question to how many people you have, which depends on a whole bunch of factors.

Regardless, galaxy-spanning empires don't really have a place in "mainstream" NSFT, because they don't really add much to RPs beyond big numbers for big numbers' sake. That's not to say you won't find people wanting to RP with them.

[Feazanthia]

No, you're missing my point. Here, I'll give you an example.

The Kiith Federation (my primary nation) is but one of a small handful of political bodies that make up the Feazanthian Dominion. The Dominion, and by extension the Kiith, span most of one of the globular clusters in the Fornax Galaxy - roughly 1/6th of the whole thing. This is an absurd amount of territory, especially when you look at the average size of a player-controlled nation in the Milky Way (usually 1-5 star systems). However, the Kiith presence in the Milky Way galaxy is small. Very small. There are only roughly 80 combat capital ships of Kiith origin in the MWG. Why is this?

Because the Milky Way galaxy is very far from home, and ultimately not very important to the Kiith. Interesting, sure. A source of wealth and trade? Absolutely. An avenue for expansion? In a manner of speaking. But ultimately, the Milky Way Expedition is not as important enough to allocate many resources to. There is considerable political pressure for various clans to keep their forces right where they are, it costs an obscene amount of money to ship anything over intergalactic distances, and the ruling government just doesn't make it that high a priority.


You see what I'm saying? The Milky Way Galaxy is where 95% of FT RP takes place. Well played, an extragalactic empire can be interesting backstory. It can be fluff, a characteristic of your nation that influences how it deals with others. Hell, one must even ask "Why is my empire even bothering to expand into the MWG". But asking "Hey I have a galaxy-spanning empire, how many ships should I be able to crush people with?" is none of these things. Roleplay is a two-way street. If people think you're just going to go "I deploy 50,000 battleships, post losses", they're not going to RP with you. Ever. But, if you can only ever deploy a few dozen star ships because that's all your government is willing to deploy to the MWG in the first place (to defend a similarly small amount of territory in the MWG), then people will be much more receptive.

TL;DR - Galaxy-spanning empires are backstory, not generators for infinite fleets.

I know, but within that empire is planets with lots of metals,

I just want too know what is the best size for my entire navy, I am not going for the 50,000 battleships post losses ideal, I am going for stories, that people wish too read, but part of those stories are numbers, and I want too know what is the best number for my entire navy that is all I want too know, that is all I asked for. Nothing more, nothing less. I will build up, and stenghten my nation's back story, and history, and government, and etc over time, but I just wish too know the answer too this one question,

For a nation that controls 45% of it's home galaxy (not MWG) what is the best size for it's navy size?
Heck what about 34% this is all I asked.
I don't want too be pimp slapped with information I either already know, or information I didn't come for, and have no need for.

Listen all I asked is one question, and you failed too answer that question.

Sorry if I offended you.

Hey, I'm just trying to help. Kinda my job.

As to your actual question - ultimately the only person who can answer that is you. We know nothing about your technology, your industry, your economy, what sort of external and internal pressures you face (the sort of things that would create demand for warships - if everything is peachy keen in the empire why build a fleet at all?), etc etc. To answer all those questions would require roughly an essay's worth of work.

What I can do is offer assistance in coming to that number yourself. Atomic Rockets (one of my favorite references for the nuts and bolts of technological questions) has sections dedicated to the formation of fictional space empires.
Part 1: Interstellar Colonization
Part 2: Trade and Piracy
Part 3: Maintaining an Empire

Some things to consider.

• What is your general fleet doctrine? Do you prefer larger, more durable vessels in smaller numbers? Smaller, swarming vessels to overwhelm enemy weapons? A balance between the two?
• What sort of pressures is your government facing? If you're mostly dealing with piracy and the odd uprising, you'll need primarily generalist ships, and you wont need many of them. If you're facing multiple hostile empires on every frontier, you'll tend to have more specialized vessels and obviously more of your industry will be geared towards their construction and maintenance.
• How much automation do you have in your ships? Most of the expense in building and maintaining a military is not equipment or technology - it's people. Fewer people, more equipment and technology (though you should still try to balance this for practical purposes).
• What's your economy look like? How much of your government's budget is going to military expenditures, and how does the general public feel about that? Remember, few successful nations have dedicated themselves to the art of war. It is, at most, one of many concerns.
• How fast is your Faster-Than-Light? If you can quickly traverse the distance between stars, you can defend more territory with fewer assets. If it takes months to go from here to Tau Alpha Ceti, then you're going to need garrison fleets (which increases the amount of ships you have to build and personnel you have to train).

However at the end of the day, the only answer to your question I can give you is this.

How many ships should you have? The very minimum your politicians believe they need.

[Vocenae]

Hey,

What is the best overall navy size for a FT empire that controls 45% of a 250,000 wide galaxy, and has other pockets of colonies in other galaxies.

Hello, and welcome to Future Tech. As you appear to be very new to FT, I'd just like to give you some friendly, basic advice on the size of your empire.

AS it stands right now, you're in ludicrous territory. There are no players in FT that actively play with such a massive amount of territory. At most, the largest stellar state is somewhere around thirty star systems, and that has been a slow effort that has spanned almost the entirety of NationStates history.

Most FT nations hover around twelve star systems or less.

As Feaz has stated, claiming such huge amounts of the galaxy is pretty much a one way ticket to ignoreville. People, and FT-Prime (see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=270578#FTPrime as well as taking a read over the entire opening post) have spent years crafting a communal history, and they simply will not acknowledge you showing up on the block with such a impossibly huge empire.

And this is just the community aspect of things.

From a more 'technical and scientific' point of things, claiming such a huge amount of space means that you have very little sense of scale. Space is big. Impossibly big. Even the brightest minds of Humanity have trouble properly describing how vast and shattering the distance is simply between planetary objects, much less star systems. T

To put it bluntly: You do not and will never need 34% of a galaxy.

All the resources that a civilization needs to survive would, once you are capable of efficient slower than light spaceflight (and especially faster than light) be easily attainable within your home star system. You're not going to run out of usable or reusable resources, especially if you're technologically advanced (which just to touch upon, does not give you an advantage over other players).

Local space is a bonanaza of resources. A Comstock Lode. You don't need dumptrucks of metal planets when asteroids will be far more efficient.

Even logistics-wise, trying to maintain an coherent, 'natural' empire would be impossible over such a vast distance, let alone trying to defend it. Then you've got to take into account that any attempt at world building (one of the most important factors of creating a believable nation) for an empire that size would just be an impossible feat and would most likely be many blanket statements for vast parts of your nations simply out of neccessity for time.

Again to be blunt: claiming that much space is a bad idea and you should not do it.

As is the common advice that all veteran FT players give to newcomers: Start with three star systems and work your way up from there. Having a stable home system, a self sufficient colony system and a fresh new colony system allows you to explore how your nation works on a much smaller scale.

If you're worried about needing to be huge in order to not get invaded, don't. The FT community is full of players who are not interested in simply conquering you or saying that they instantly win any engagement because they are older or larger than you. That isn't how Future Tech rolls, and if you need a far more indepth statement, please once again see the opening post of this thread, specifically viewtopic.php?f=5&t=270578#RulesOfFT

Hopefully this helps you create a, well, better nation concept, one that won't see you sidelined because it is so ridiculously large. As it also states in the OP of this thread, and in the signatures of many FT players, please the listed IRC channels so that you may get to know the community better and that we can give you real-time advice.

[Zerinfriom]

I do not see the point in just having three systems,

Nor do I see the point that people waste their time dilly dandling for years only too have thirty systems as the result,

I believe in the epic scale of FT, there is this massive amount of space too claim, and to enjoy, too prosper, to control, etc etc.

Space is massive yes, but why stay in a small corner and have a boring nation,

Why not become a hundreds, if not thousands of light years across space empire that controls hundreds of species, that engages in wars, and commerce with many other nations,

Just why the tiny scale?

I have been building this FT nation up before I even came too this website, before I even knew about it, I've been thinking about how it was formed, why it was formed, how it expanded, why it expanded, and countless other questions and answers, and upon seeing that most FT people are thirteen star systems I just am In awe at the small scale, especially when in many FT rps I read showed many people coming in with Planet sized ships, Those ships bring in a form of awe that FT needs, that these aren't just tiny insignificant thirty star system nations, these are massive galaxy wide empire having to deal with the man issues that pop up foreign and domestic, you gain this scale of magnitude that brings forth many questions of ethnicity, species rights, and many other things,

Why have this huge sandbox the span of the universe, and plant a leave as a flag, and be done with it. Why not explore, and colonize more as your population erupts into a major over population issue, why not war for resources as the asteroids, and planets dry up, why not build a massive fleet to defend your borders, and engage with enemy nations, and pirates that come in and take, and ransack many star systems right from under your nose?

Just why? Why not the scale that space is?

I came into FT expecting hundreds of these marvelous, and massive empires that you can trade with, and compete with on a magnitude that is hard to fathom, not only talking about a few light years of space, but a 1000 square light year of space for who controls it, but a 1000 square mile of space of who controls it, and why, and the billions of people that live there, and the massive issues species x has with species y.

Just why not reform the boundaries of the FT group too a magnitude that will make it the best tech group on NS, these massive, and awe inspiring galactic republic, patriarchies, matriarchies, and empires that MT nations look at, and are in awe of.

Just why?

[Doppio Giudici]

One planet is a lot of land, you could spend eons in MT trying to obtain a single landmass.

I own three systems, that is a lot of land and resoruces. That is billions of people, with different ways of life simply because how big and what color their star is.

Earth is a huge place, with many different cultures and no one has ever been able to gain power over all of them. So the question is, how in the universe are you going to control more then 30 systems? How are they all going to follow one leader or group of leaders? It's kinda hard to have one single person or even two represent a whole solar system like that, when there is sixty of them in all.

Also battles take forever and it could take you a whole RL month to take a system, sometimes it could take a RL year. Imagine if you had a thousand systems, would war be worth anything if you spent a RL year to gain .1 percent more land?

[Dreadful Sagittarius]

I do not see the point in just having three systems,

Nor do I see the point that people waste their time dilly dandling for years only too have thirty systems as the result,

I believe in the epic scale of FT, there is this massive amount of space too claim, and to enjoy, too prosper, to control, etc etc.

Space is massive yes, but why stay in a small corner and have a boring nation,

Why not become a hundreds, if not thousands of light years across space empire that controls hundreds of species, that engages in wars, and commerce with many other nations,

Just why the tiny scale?

I have been building this FT nation up before I even came too this website, before I even knew about it, I've been thinking about how it was formed, why it was formed, how it expanded, why it expanded, and countless other questions and answers, and upon seeing that most FT people are thirteen star systems I just am In awe at the small scale, especially when in many FT rps I read showed many people coming in with Planet sized ships, Those ships bring in a form of awe that FT needs, that these aren't just tiny insignificant thirty star system nations, these are massive galaxy wide empire having to deal with the man issues that pop up foreign and domestic, you gain this scale of magnitude that brings forth many questions of ethnicity, species rights, and many other things,

Why have this huge sandbox the span of the universe, and plant a leave as a flag, and be done with it. Why not explore, and colonize more as your population erupts into a major over population issue, why not war for resources as the asteroids, and planets dry up, why not build a massive fleet to defend your borders, and engage with enemy nations, and pirates that come in and take, and ransack many star systems right from under your nose?

Just why? Why not the scale that space is?

I came into FT expecting hundreds of these marvelous, and massive empires that you can trade with, and compete with on a magnitude that is hard to fathom, not only talking about a few light years of space, but a 1000 square light year of space for who controls it, but a 1000 square mile of space of who controls it, and why, and the billions of people that live there, and the massive issues species x has with species y.

Just why not reform the boundaries of the FT group too a magnitude that will make it the best tech group on NS, these massive, and awe inspiring galactic republic, patriarchies, matriarchies, and empires that MT nations look at, and are in awe of.

Just why?

Do me a favour; I want you to elaborate on the different cultures for say, thirty of your star systems. Get back to me when you're done.

---

Oh fine I'll elaborate myself some. You say you've been working on this galactic empire for years, before you even came to NSFT. Have you considered that maybe, if you want to RP with FT as a whole, you should adapt yourself to FT's standards rather than demanding that FT adapt to yours? There's a huge difference between a player-evolved consensus in what makes sense and that has derived from group discussion over a decade of roleplaying, and one player coming in and saying 'Guys, sorry, but my sandcastle is better, so you should all do what I've done with it.' That kind of attitude has historically led to some very ugly situations. (Ask anyone of us about Bryn, or...well I won't name that one)

To add onto Feaz's comment about resources below; there's tons of different elements we're still not in danger of running out of on Earth alone. If we could harvest and transport the resources of every celestial body in this star system to Earth, we'd be able to build whatever we wanted. For a comparison, Setulan prior to his current civil war storyline operated an empire controlling four star systems, and two protectorates (These are assumed to be individual star systems as well). From that, he ended up operating a fleet of 1500-1750 combat ships, just in his main navy. He also had the contributions from his protectorates, as well as armed merchant ships and customs/patrol ships. In all, he could well operate close to two-thousand five-hundred armed ships. In what world is that not 'epic'?

I believe in the epic scale of FT, there is this massive amount of space too claim, and to enjoy, too prosper, to control, etc etc.

The point here is this. People enjoy the small scale. It lets them tell the stories of people and nations, not blank-faced 'In the news today, another five star systems erupted into civil war' type bullshit.

[Feazanthia]

I do not see the point in just having three systems,

Nor do I see the point that people waste their time dilly dandling for years only too have thirty systems as the result,

I believe in the epic scale of FT, there is this massive amount of space too claim, and to enjoy, too prosper, to control, etc etc.

Space is massive yes, but why stay in a small corner and have a boring nation,

Why not become a hundreds, if not thousands of light years across space empire that controls hundreds of species, that engages in wars, and commerce with many other nations,

Just why the tiny scale?

I have been building this FT nation up before I even came too this website, before I even knew about it, I've been thinking about how it was formed, why it was formed, how it expanded, why it expanded, and countless other questions and answers, and upon seeing that most FT people are thirteen star systems I just am In awe at the small scale, especially when in many FT rps I read showed many people coming in with Planet sized ships, Those ships bring in a form of awe that FT needs, that these aren't just tiny insignificant thirty star system nations, these are massive galaxy wide empire having to deal with the man issues that pop up foreign and domestic, you gain this scale of magnitude that brings forth many questions of ethnicity, species rights, and many other things,

Why have this huge sandbox the span of the universe, and plant a leave as a flag, and be done with it. Why not explore, and colonize more as your population erupts into a major over population issue, why not war for resources as the asteroids, and planets dry up, why not build a massive fleet to defend your borders, and engage with enemy nations, and pirates that come in and take, and ransack many star systems right from under your nose?

Just why? Why not the scale that space is?

I came into FT expecting hundreds of these marvelous, and massive empires that you can trade with, and compete with on a magnitude that is hard to fathom, not only talking about a few light years of space, but a 1000 square light year of space for who controls it, but a 1000 square mile of space of who controls it, and why, and the billions of people that live there, and the massive issues species x has with species y.

Just why not reform the boundaries of the FT group too a magnitude that will make it the best tech group on NS, these massive, and awe inspiring galactic republic, patriarchies, matriarchies, and empires that MT nations look at, and are in awe of.

Just why?

Because FT is not about throwing one's weight about, it is about stories. What point is there to having five thousand planets when you don't go into detail about any of them? They become statistics. Numbers. Meaningless.

A good FT battle thread will focus less on the weapons being thrown about, the cataclysm of fire and metal and flesh, and more on the characters. Oftentimes the best battle threads - the ones people talk about for years after the fact - will be more about a small core of characters (often on multiple sides of the conflict) with the battle itself as the backdrop.

The problem with massive, galaxy-spanning empires is the age-old trope that Sci-Fi writers have no sense of scale (TVTropes warning). Think of all the massive space fleets you've seen in media. The Federation Starfleet at the Battle of Deep Space Nine (Star Trek). The Citadel Fleet at the Battle of Earth (Mass Effect). The Goa'uld and Replicator fleets at the Battle of Dakara (Stargate: SG1).

The construction of those fleets would require a minute fraction of the total resources present in the asteroid belt of just the Sol system, let alone the easily accessible moons and rogue asteroids. Unless you're introducing some uber rare macguffin resource, a space empire will never be strapped for raw resources. So what about other reasons for expansion? The need for more territory? Mankind hasn't even fully colonized the surface of our own homeworld yet. As technology progresses, food will be able to be produced with far greater volume efficiency and more space will be available for settlements. And then you have orbital habitats, which in some ways make much more pragmatic sense than surface habitats. Having hundreds or thousands of star systems starts making less sense then. Territory, with arbitrary borders drawn on a map the way you see on terrestrial maps, just isn't feasible in space. Owning territory for strategic purposes is a fool's errand. Even if 20% of star systems have habitable planets around them, an enemy is still going to be able to jump to the 80% of star systems that are uninhabited - and that's if they can't just move through interstellar space without ever alerting your border crossings to their presence.

But at the end of the day, it's because the average FT player would rather deal with details, not statistics. It's more interesting. It is, as we have found over a decade of play, more fun.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

For the longest time I played as a single system nation, didn't RP much sadly, but I enjoyed it.

Hell I'm still small.

Anyways for factbook purposes, what velocity would a round need to go to make 10,000 kilometers an effective range, as well as how much mass should it have in order to to be 64 kilotons?

[Lubyak]

I think your conflating two very different things. More size != Better. Staying in one corner with a few systems does not make anything boring. Firefly takes entirely within one system. One ludicrously large system, but one system nonetheless, and I hardly think that it's 'boring.' IN fact, I think being smaller can make things very interesting. It allows you to really develop indivdual planets: their cities, cultures, and peoples. Going ludicrously large, you do--as Voc said--end up having to generalise, for the sake of your own sanity.

You don't NEED the kind of scale you want in order to have the kind of issues you want. Hell, we're a species of ~7 billion on one planet, and we have to deal with all of those questions. You can just as easily engage in issues of species rights, ethnicity, and etc. Also, if everyone plays on the same scale, then 30 odd systems suddenly stops being 'irrelevant' and turns into 'major power'. You can do the same kind of RPs with 30 planets as you can with 3000. The only thing that would seem to change are the numbers.

I would like to think that most people aren't of the type that their level of 'being impressed' goes up by the number of imaginary ships fighting each other in an imaginary war over an imaginary goal. The kind of RP that impresses people comes from a sense of investment with characters, entities, and institutions. Drama, beautiful descriptions, well imagined world building...all of those things impress. There is no reason why ANY of that has to require massive, galaxy spanning civilisations. Hell, I'd argue it diminishes it. "Oh, well we just lost 5,000 warships and ten million men. Oh well! More where that came from," versus, "We have lost four capital ships, and that has seriously diminished our fleet." In all honesty, I'd prefer the latter. When you try and keep scaling up, it gets to the point where you just can't imagine the numbers involved and they lose all meaning. To quote, "To kill one man is a tragedy, to kill a million is a statistic."

I think that applies to FT most of all. You seem to think that going to a scale that people just can't fathom as something that will leave them in awe. More likely, they'll just stop caring, and go click on something else. Get them invested in the drama on a more personal level? Now that'll grab them.

[Zerinfriom]

You guys clearly do not get what I am talking about,

Imma just leave as apparently my opinion is once again a problem in one of these thread.

[Kyrusia]

[snip]

First and foremost, Zerinfriom, welcome to Future Tech.

Secondly, I would strongly advise reading over this post by Hyperspatial Travel, a very experienced, well-respected former FTer now having departed this website. It explains a few points about why, in Future Technology, one needs to consider size and start small.

Now, as to why a sense of scale is important in Future Tech, I'm going to quote a little tidbit of something I wrote to help-out a player that was thinking of a similar mindset: why stay small? If space is so big, why not claim big things? Well...

I would still advise concentrating yourself, at most, to three stellar systems. Even many of the most well-established, veteran "Old Guard", as it were, don't even expand beyond that; it also demonstrates a very sound grasping of scale to "limit" yourself to no more than three, even if one is fairly "expansionist". For example, if we base our assumptions on our Solar System (Sol System) in reality: a basic, middle-of-the-road main sequence star that, if the Deep Field research is correct, the system itself being, as well, in the middle-of-the-road degree of mediocrity. So, more or less, we can assume that the size of Sol System is the mean average insofar as stellar/planetary systems capable of supporting life.

In determining a nice, average "size" of Sol System, we have three primary measurements we can use to determine a rough "size": the Kuiper cliff, distance from our central star to its heliopause, and the Hill sphere.

The Kuiper cliff is on the "conservative" end of the spectrum, but it poses unique problems when we use it to determine the "average size" of an "average" solar system. Chiefly, the Kuiper cliff is determinate on the Kuiper Belt - a "ring" (read: field) of interstellar dust, debris, comets, asteroids, and other bodies that rings Sol System from about Neptune's orbit (approximately 30 AU) to about 50 AU from the Sun. This last measurement is known as the "Kuiper cliff", as it is the point at which mean size of asteroids and debris begins to dramatically drop off. Obviously the concern is rather apparent, as not every planetary system would have such a belt, though it is likely they might have something akin to it. Even so, it's a bit "best case", but is the conservative end of the spectrum insofar as determining the size of your systems.

Next we have the measure of the heliopause, which is sort of the "middle ground" insofar as what you might want to measure your system size with. The heliopause is a fairly simple concept which would be found in virtually every stellar system, albeit at different sizes based on the mass of the star, the luminosity of the star, and the metallicity of the star. In effect, a heliopause is the boundary at which stellar winds become halted by the interstellar medium, noted by a sudden drop in the temperature of charged particles, an increase in the presence of cosmic rays, and a shift in the direction of the apparent magnetic field of the system. For stars like our Sun (a G2V main sequence star with an absolute magnitude of about 5), the heliopause stretches out to around 100-120 AU. As you can see, this is about double the distance of measuring from the Kuiper cliff, if not more. Even so, it's the "middle ground".

Lastly, we have the distance of the expanse of the Hill sphere. The Hill sphere is a region of space where any given body dominates the gravitational attraction of satellites. In effect: if you're in this area, you're being attracted to our Sun/the aggregate gravitational pull of Sol System, and are likely to be captured by it. Any significantly massive body in space will have a Hill sphere greater than its actual physical radius, thus attracting satellites; planets have them, stars have them, etc. This measurement, by far, is the "largest" insofar as the radius measure of Sol System and, thus, likely the "largest" measure one would want to base the size of a stellar system off. Even so, this size is only for a system of similar mass, with a star of similar mass to our own; the Hill sphere for Sol System stretches from between one to two light-years from the Sun. This is equitable to about 60,240 AU to 126,480 AU - roughly 1204.8 to 2529.6 times as massive as using the Kuiper cliff, and about 547.6 to 1149.8 times the radius if we used the heliopause as our gauge.

As you can see, this more or less means that most systems with habitable life - for the sake of this realm of science-fiction - can be assumed to fall between the range of about 50 AU to 130,000 AU in size, depending on what you base that size on. Even at the smallest and most conservative measure (assuming most of your systems "end" at the imaginary 50 AU boundary), remember, space is three-dimensional... So you have the volume of a sphere, roughly, 50 AU in radius; that's something like... 520,000 cubic AU to just fiddle around with, assuming my midnight mathematics are correct. That is an astronomical (literally) large area of space - and that's just ONE system.

As you can see, this is why most people only have one system fully inhabited, maybe two with a third being colonized; from my personal experience, it tends to be: one system inhabited fully; one under persistent colonization and/or terraforming efforts (or other industrial/agricultural efforts); and one that's tacked on because you have some people there to muddle around and keep it. Remember: in space, there are no real "territories" or "borders"; your sovereign space is the space you can feasibly dominate with the threat of violence and can reasonably defend against the violence of others.

All-in-all, take this scale into account when you're determining your size and how "expansionist" you might want to be; also, take into account that, the larger you get, the more people you need to feed, and when one is simultaneously plopping people down on habitable worlds, one needs to match that with agricultural expansion. Using the Huerdaen Star Empire - one of the largest (if not the largest) and respected empires in FT - as an example: for all of his spacial territory, it's still a bit of a running joke (and a reality) that starvation is a problem for his people. This, also, needs to be factored in when you determine size.

Next, I believe you may have a misunderstanding about the Future Technology community itself. Future Tech is not a "group", it is not an "organization", it is not a single roleplay; Future Tech is a nebulous collection of inter-connected networks of players, player continuity, and player canon, combining - sometimes rather unconsciously - into the collaborative canon and continuity spanning the period of over a decade that the Future Technology community has been constructing itself. This is "Future Tech" - or, as some call it (to differentiate from closed roleplaying groups), "FT-Prime".

The reason why the "magnitude is simply not increased", is much the same reason one doesn't go into work on their first day and say, "I want to use Folgers coffee exclusively". There is no a mechanism to perform that, and the entire history of the community and the community's effort to sustain its fundamental principles of collaboration, compromise, creativity, and consistency have lead to a "smaller scale" (and I use that term relatively, as you can see above) sort of cosmos, where most roleplaying ventures take place in the Galaxy (the "Milky Way Galaxy", as some say). Not to mention, it can be construed to fly in the face of other players, which goes against the aforementioned core principles of player interaction within the Future Technology community.

Lastly, of course, as has been highlighted in the original post of this thread, you can do what you want. You can have a galaxy-spanning empire, ships so large and dense they sling-off globular clusters at relativistic speeds purely by their gravitational footprint, and all matter of the fantastical. No one can stop you. But in the same current, given the history of the Future Tech community; the entrenched history of not merely IC lore and history, but OOC development, community history, and standardization; and the very presupposition of freeform roleplaying in the NationStates boards beyond "Portal to the Multiverse", everyone else can do the same. That includes, to put it simply, that no one can force another player to recognize a player entity if they do not wish to.

Quoting a bit of the original post here:

Though called by many names ("Rule of Cool", "Code of Bro/Sis", etc.), the standards and conventions of the FT community, in effect, boil down to this: be willing to collaborate with other players; be willing to compromise with other players for the sake of both the story and the mutual experience of existing within the world; be creative and do not directly rip from existing canon (such as those found in novels, video games, or films); and be consistent with the applications of the internal rules of your creations (such as how your technology interacts with other technologies, cultural rules within your societies, etc.).

These standards, in effect, mean "Don't be a dick". It is, really, quite that simple. If you, as a player, are willing to collaborate with others, compromise, attempt to be creative, and are consistent, you will find roleplaying partners and ventures very readily and very easily. Players that are not willing to abide by these very, very basic standards of behavior, however, might not. It is often said in Future Tech that you may "do as you will, because no one can stop you". This is patently true; however, players that act in a manner that is not congruent or complimentary to the community's, implement absurd creations that violate these standards or otherwise diminish the ability for other players to enjoy the roleplaying venture, or - in general - are simply "silly" with no caveat insofar as how that "silliness" might be applied - such is to say, "Silly for the sake of silliness" without any added enjoyment - are likely to find themselves with few avenues to interact with the community.

It's true, you can do as you please; no one can stop you. Just as well, you can't force people to recognize your creations simply by existing. Behavior and conduct is paramount to earning respect and merit as a writer and roleplayer in the Future Technology community; poor behavior tends to reflect poorly on the player and, ultimately, may lead to many individuals ignoring that player and his entities simply because it's not enjoyable to interact with the player.

Specifically the bolded portions of the above. As you can see, collaboration, compromise, creativity, and consistency are vital to the Future Tech community; often, that means respecting the history of the community - as a newer player - and adapting and conforming to what seems to broadly be the most respected sort of (often unspoken) standards found within it, developing over time as a player in the community, then bending the rules in accordance with what a player feels provides for the best story. The issue is, of course, that even in doing this, if other players feel that what rules are being "bent" are only being done as a means to generate an "I Win" button or to orchestrate and execute a form of power-gaming, it's still likely not to receive widespread recognition.

This is why advice, overwhelmingly, is to start small. In addition - and in closing - I would like to leave this bit of an analogy, since you have mentioned a "sandbox":

In a sandbox, freeform, roleplaying community, the size of a player's individual sandbox in respect to the collective sum of all other player's sandboxes is important. For most of the Future Tech community, the size of that collective sandbox is about the size of a galaxy - give or take - in which most, if not all, of the community members have their own sandboxes inside. This has lead to a lush, "living" community where the empty space between one player's sandbox and another doesn't seem so large because of the amount of detail each individual sandbox has put into it.

If we carry this analogy down a step in scale, from the whole of the community to the individual player, much of the same is often true. If a player has a "smaller" sandbox, when he constructs his sand castles, the amount of detail and time he puts into them is more readily apparent; the detail of each individual sand castle goes toward making his sandbox feel alive - a living, breathing civilization, as it were. If, however, the player has a large sandbox, no matter how detailed each individual sand castle is, players are more likely to notice the empty space between the sand castles, than the sand castles themselves.

Addendum: As you can imagine, reading this, fleet size, individual military force numbers, even population counts come into this. Many players never even bother to figure these statistics out because, in the grand scheme of things, in a world where a civilization can be destroyed in an instant, and in a community where cultural, social, political, martial, and religious world-building take paramount, one does not necessary need to count them all to portray them correctly and in a manner with others that respects collaboration and compromise.

At the end of the day, if you want a galaxy-spanning empire: go for it. By all means, no one can stop you. If you want massive, star-consuming fleets from the start: go for it. Again, no one can stop you. Even so, as stated already: you can't make them roleplay with you or interact with you, either - especially if it flies in the face of what those players consider the "norm", enjoy, and have constructed for over a decade. Just like you might feel us informing you of the community and how it clashes with your personal view of your entity feels unpleasant or that you do not otherwise feel like you should need to augment, saying the whole Future Tech community needs to "upscale" for you, feels much the same way to the players you are telling that toward. This is why collaboration and compromise are paramount in FT - but every individual player has his own limits. This is ultimately the way of the world.

Hope that was helpful.

[Feazanthia]

You guys clearly do not get what I am talking about,

Imma just leave as apparently my opinion is once again a problem in one of these thread.

No we get precisely what you're talking about. People used to do that very sort of thing in FT.

We have learned, over time, that it is not as fun as you think it is.

[Zerinfriom]

You guys clearly do not get what I am talking about,

Imma just leave as apparently my opinion is once again a problem in one of these thread.

No we get precisely what you're talking about. People used to do that very sort of thing in FT.

We have learned, over time, that it is not as fun as you think it is.

Okay tell me what I was talking about, come on, what was I talking about?

Why is being a large FT nation as all FT people should be, is now tossed aside, and shunned,

What did you learn, did you learn that doing that sort of stuff is hard? there is bypasses, there is countless reason why you guys shouldn't have switched from these epic creatiosn too these microscopic pieces of dead skin on the Universe's back?

Why the sudden change into boringness?

And if you have no efficient answers than you clearly learned nothing.

I spent years making this thing into a great, and glorious titan, and when I finally decide to go into FT, as I am a massive Science Fiction fan, star wars, star trek, Firefly, Babylon 5, etc, I am given this pimp slap too the face saying "No large things, you must start small" When I am thinking that My alias did start of small,

The Hundred years War,

The Final Ascendance,

The Gundercian War,

Restoration of Demontronia,

all when it was just a few star systems, heck the hundred years war was just between two planets in one solar system,

This all just makes no seance to me, when I came into this, again i say, I was expecting awesomeness. But all I got was well this