Future Tech Advice and Assistance Thread [O.O.C.]

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

We're terraforming Mars (Then the Moon if Mars is worthwhile) and already have the Dome thing handled swiftly.

We wouldn't try to terraform such a planet due to the hazards it would pose on the indigenous life. so space bubbles it is!

[New Tsavon]

Humanity. Fuck. Yeah.

You forgot the part about Humans being heavyworlders.

[SquareDisc City]

As a reference for future stuff, what sorta of gravity level would be required or whatever to allow sky whale like creatures?

Any. Provided there is some gravity, how strong it is doesn't matter to whether something is buoyant or not. Basically it cancels out.

The mass that can be lifted by a given volume of gas depends on the difference between the densities of the lifting gas and surrounding air. So, as Feaz mentioned, a denser atmosphere results in more buoyancy.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

Is anyone here knowledgeable on how space age economies would work (Probably) or something?

[The Legion of War]

If you think about it, Humans are pretty scary.

We can keep fighting for hours after any injury, removing limbs won't fatally injure us if we can quickly patch it up and put pressure on it, we reproduce once a year, we have over 30 bones in our mouth and powerful jaw muscles, our bites are hard and in some cases, can cause infections, we project bioweapons from our bodies. We use improvised weapons from nearly anything we can get our hands on, and get extensive training to improve our motions to inflict major harm. Our endurance, shock resistance, ability to recover from injury are absurd compared to other animals even on Earth. There is evidence that our ancestors would out-walk our prey without sleep or rest, until the animal died of exhaustion. There is only one animal capable of keeping up with us: Dogs. Which we have domesticated and are known as best friends. Think about it! We don't even have to use weapons in some cases. We just have to merely show up and follow our prey. We are intelligent enough to follow you just by faded prints, feces, fur and feathers.

Now to compare ourselves to a species that didn't have to work against a larger predator:

Our speed and strength alone aren't anything to write home about, but we don't need that. We just need to outlast whatever we are fighting. And by any other species (on earth) standards, we don't get tired. Where a simple broken leg will cause any species on earth to go into shock and die, we can recover from virtually any non-immediate fatal injury. Even traumatic dismemberment isn't a career ending injury for a human. We heal from injuries rapidly, recovering in days or weeks, where an animal would take months or even years. The results aren't pretty - humans have hyperactive scare tissue, among our other survival oriented skills - but they are highly functional. Speaking of scarring, look at our medical science. We developed surgery before rudimentary anaesthetics or life-support. In extremes, humans have been known to perform surgery on themselves and survive. We regard routine medical surgeries procedures what other species would consider murder. We even perform radical surgeries for purely cosmetic reasons.

When our jaws have too many teeth in them, we have been accustomed to welding metal to our teeth and force the bones in our jaw to reconstruct over the course of years, and then continue to weld metal into our mouth to keep them there.

And by god, we will eat anything.

We will season our foods with borderline toxic peppers. We expose ourselves to potentially deadly solar radiation in pursuit of darker skin. We risk hearing loss to listen to loud noise in rhythms we enjoy. We have games where we watch two people in an arena and hit one another until one of them passes out/time runs out. We willingly jump from high altitudes and place our trust in cloth to float down to the ground. Our response to natural disasters is to rebuild what we had there in the same place. We climb to extreme heights, risking freezing to death, for mere bragging rights. We invented Dogs to help us hunt for animals. We took our one-time predators and domesticated them. Our planet is filled with deadly predators, both in the sky, in the sea, under and on ground. Yet we managed to advance further than all of them, and we want to advance further all the time.

Humans are just plain scary.

The Legion of War highly approves of this!

However, speaking from an OOC point of view... What good is outlasting something when that something can kill you first? Sure, it's helpful against bunnies and deer, but against a Lion or a pack of wolves it won't do much.

[Feazanthia]

Is anyone here knowledgeable on how space age economies would work (Probably) or something?

Good article here.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

So how would I handle economic statistics?

I am willing to work with someone on that stuff since I'm not very math literate so any math that might be involved that could get complex might stump me without decent references.

[Feazanthia]

So how would I handle economic statistics?

I am willing to work with someone on that stuff since I'm not very math literate so any math that might be involved that could get complex might stump me without decent references.

Handwave it, IMO.

I'm a bloody accountant for a living and I haven't worked out my nation's economy in detail.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

So how would I handle economic statistics?

I am willing to work with someone on that stuff since I'm not very math literate so any math that might be involved that could get complex might stump me without decent references.

Handwave it, IMO.

I'm a bloody accountant for a living and I haven't worked out my nation's economy in detail.

Well I would at most just like a reasonable statistic for a space age GDP or whatever would count :|

Always nice to spruce up the factbook (Which I need to do more on later.)

[The Akasha Colony]

Handwave it, IMO.

I'm a bloody accountant for a living and I haven't worked out my nation's economy in detail.

Well I would at most just like a reasonable statistic for a space age GDP or whatever would count :|

Always nice to spruce up the factbook (Which I need to do more on later.)

There isn't really any good way to arrive at one. This is actually a major problem even for MT NS, but one that is commonly ignored by simply presuming that real-world prices for goods and services apply. This should not ultimately be true given that the NS "world" is enormous, with much greater resource availability and some nations out there claiming ridiculous things (that would affect the world market), but it is impossible to properly account for all of the various factors that would be involved in determining the price for even a single commodity in NS. So ultimately people will generally take a per-capita income that matches how developed they want their nation to be, and multiply it by their actual population (or they'll just draw a total GDP number and divide it based on estimation).

Of course, this doesn't work for FT, where there is no real-world price to draw from. As the article notes, most physical goods would almost certainly not be the worth of shipping across interstellar distances, although they would not strict be free as there is still an inherent opportunity cost involved. Even for a nation with replicator technology, every second spent replicating one material is a second spent not replicating another, and so long as basic thermodynamics holds, there is a limited amount of energy available (although this limit may be greater than the nation can practicably use, anyway).

Thus, it comes down to intellectual property, which is even harder go gauge because it's even more subjective. And this is without considering the fact that there is no real way to gauge value in a way that other societies in FT will understand. There is no exchange rate system, no global reserve currency like the US Dollar that other space nations will understand. So you can literally put down any number you like, as it won't really have any meaning to most other players; we have no way to relate to it and may very well value it differently.

[Feazanthia]

The Kiith "aryuu" is the standard currency. *sagenod*

(shut up a man can dream)

[Thrashia]

Yeah, my own nation bases its economy on precious minerals and metals -- those being the easiest to quantify in regards to their value. The amount or "cost" of an item is completely subjective and changes according to the rp in which its necessary to know.

[Huerdae]

I use the creatively named Huerdaen 'Ingot'. Nope, pretty sure it never once came up in RP what it's really worth or why it's named that. Not sure it's even been named in RP. Guess it never really mattered. I tend to have my characters work with galactic credits, even though the HSE uses Ingots.

[The Fedral Union]

Currency is a funny thing, the economic systems of modern nations let alone future nations are so complex; that it would be impossible to describe them in detail unless you've studied economics. That being said I go with a standard fiat currency, the value was at TC$1:2.5 "universal credits" if those are even a thing. But its been slowly devalued to about $TC1:1.5 to make its use as a reserve for some of my allies more viable.

Expensive currency screws exports, but in general YMMV on things. After all the galaxy is massive and... Resource based currencies are.. well unless its unobtanuim its kinda hard to pull off, see Spain's issue with gold and silver in the ye olde times. Another case was as most of you should know about was the Bretton Woods system fiasco, its just something to consider.

As for GDP, well unless you use a calculator for NS (really no one uses them for FT.) it should be a variable. According to the calcs I'm in the top 7 FT nations that rp for economic power, but that honestly does not mean squat. When your dealing with whole planets and star systems as I noted above things become much more complex, and that can be distracting from actual rping.

[SquareDisc City]

Compared to economies as a whole, currencies are reasonably simple.

First up, fiat or backed? And seriously, unless you have a good reason for choosing a backed currency and can make it more interesting than "gold standard guys", choose fiat. Virtually all modern nations use fiat currencies for good reasons.

Then for the value of one unit, the absolute value is simply flavour. It may connect to your nation's history, but it says nothing about the current strength of the economy. That it's 170 Yen to the Pound does not make the Japanese economy weak and the British one strong. What matters are the changes in value with time, due to changes in the economy or balance of trade.

Then you can get into who's issuing it. Governments are the obvious choice, but private institutions can issue currency of their own (IIRC that's how banknotes started out in Europe), and there are decentralised currencies like bitcoin if they're your thing. If your economy has gone down the pan, "dollarisation" - adoption of a stable foreign currency - may occur. And if you're in some sort of alliance, you might have a currency union as part of that, with all the attendant pros and cons.

Least importantly, but for some most interestingly, is the physical form. No physical currency - everything is electronic - seems pretty common and perfectly reasonably in FT, and still gives you plenty to think about regarding the computer systems. But IMHO there's nothing wrong in retaining a physical currency, and you can give it super-advanced anti-forgery features.

(On a sidenote, I hate the term "credits", it's just such a sci-fi cliche. I'll refer to the assumed "reference" currency in FT as the Nationstates Dollar.)

As for the UPT, its currency, the VAN Mark, has a chequered history. Originally a factional currency in the home Universe (ie, similar to the Euro), it survived the collapse of the faction. The UPT naturally began minting its own coins and notes a while after the factional collapse, which ultimately replaced the originals, but the name was kept for tradition's sake. The currency, like the country as a whole, has proven somewhat volatile. Security features on the physical currency include a cryptographic hash of the serial number, precise isotopic and radioisotopic ratios, and on high-value notes an embedded FTL communication device that lets the note "phone home" to help combat forgeries.

[Nyte]

Compared to economies as a whole, currencies are reasonably simple.

First up, fiat or backed? And seriously, unless you have a good reason for choosing a backed currency and can make it more interesting than "gold standard guys", choose fiat. Virtually all modern nations use fiat currencies for good reasons.

Then for the value of one unit, the absolute value is simply flavour. It may connect to your nation's history, but it says nothing about the current strength of the economy. That it's 170 Yen to the Pound does not make the Japanese economy weak and the British one strong. What matters are the changes in value with time, due to changes in the economy or balance of trade.

Then you can get into who's issuing it. Governments are the obvious choice, but private institutions can issue currency of their own (IIRC that's how banknotes started out in Europe), and there are decentralised currencies like bitcoin if they're your thing. If your economy has gone down the pan, "dollarisation" - adoption of a stable foreign currency - may occur. And if you're in some sort of alliance, you might have a currency union as part of that, with all the attendant pros and cons.

Least importantly, but for some most interestingly, is the physical form. No physical currency - everything is electronic - seems pretty common and perfectly reasonably in FT, and still gives you plenty to think about regarding the computer systems. But IMHO there's nothing wrong in retaining a physical currency, and you can give it super-advanced anti-forgery features.

(On a sidenote, I hate the term "credits", it's just such a sci-fi cliche. I'll refer to the assumed "reference" currency in FT as the Nationstates Dollar.)

As for the UPT, its currency, the VAN Mark, has a chequered history. Originally a factional currency in the home Universe (ie, similar to the Euro), it survived the collapse of the faction. The UPT naturally began minting its own coins and notes a while after the factional collapse, which ultimately replaced the originals, but the name was kept for tradition's sake. The currency, like the country as a whole, has proven somewhat volatile. Security features on the physical currency include a cryptographic hash of the serial number, precise isotopic and radioisotopic ratios, and on high-value notes an embedded FTL communication device that lets the note "phone home" to help combat forgeries.

I'd love to hear a few of these 'good reasons'... Fiat currency is a fucking joke; and its not even a funny one at that.

Seriously though (now that I got my hatred of fiat currency, wall street, and the fed out of the way) you should back your currency with something; gold, silver, etc. Otherwise, your blood sucking vampires bankers are going to bend your nation/people over and do very unpleasant things to their backsides if you get my drift (just look at all the economic nonsense that's been going on over the last several years around the world for example).

[Huerdae]

I guess, beyond the fact that trying to make it work would be horrendously overcomplicated, at what point does it really matter? Currency, the exact exchange rate, even whether or not its accepted in any given nation, is a matter of arbitrary decision. What matters is plot. That's probably the biggest reason the Ingot never once hit the stage - it's an unimportant detail, just like a millino other things about the HSE that I know, may or may not have written down, and yet continue to not state in RP.

These things, while interesting (to some people, I guess my post here is because they're not that interesting to me) really just seem to get in the way of a story. Much, I would say, like the exact armor thickness of your tanks, the power output of your weapons, the exact shade of green of this one lady's dress. Some things should be left to the imagination. The only time it should really be a focus is if that is the primary point of the scene. Time and time again I have shown a rather visceral view of a dying person in war, how the gore sprays from the body...that can be traumatic to the character, and send ripples over the course of their life. But have you ever seen anyone do that with money? It seems to me that unless you're a very special person who has a particular affinity for money, it won't happen. And as such, you probably won't consider the exchange rate, actual value, or even what it's based on in everyday life. It's just "money".

-=Rant Complete=-

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

I do plan to make subtle references to economic issues though, and it may be important for story reasons in my opinion.

Does anyone know a good economic person on NS that could theoretically help?

[The Akasha Colony]

I'd love to hear a few of these 'good reasons'... Fiat currency is a fucking joke; and its not even a funny one at that.

Seriously though (now that I got my hatred of fiat currency, wall street, and the fed out of the way) you should back your currency with something; gold, silver, etc. Otherwise, your blood sucking vampires bankers are going to bend your nation/people over and do very unpleasant things to their backsides if you get my drift (just look at all the economic nonsense that's been going on over the last several years around the world for example).

So your answer to instability in the market is to add more instability? And to take control of currency value out of the hands of governments (who have a vested interest in maintaining stability) and into the hands of commodity traders, who are driven by profit? That sounds like a great idea. Gee, I wonder why we've never tried commodity-backed currency before.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

http://scaleofuniverse.com/

Has anyone here seen this? I just felt like posting it because I like this stuff.

Anyways while I wait for one question to be resolved I have another.

Do any nations here have a colony in a binary star system, and how would colonizing such work?

[Vocenae]

I'd love to hear a few of these 'good reasons'... Fiat currency is a fucking joke; and its not even a funny one at that.

Seriously though (now that I got my hatred of fiat currency, wall street, and the fed out of the way) you should back your currency with something; gold, silver, etc. Otherwise, your blood sucking vampires bankers are going to bend your nation/people over and do very unpleasant things to their backsides if you get my drift (just look at all the economic nonsense that's been going on over the last several years around the world for example).

So your answer to instability in the market is to add more instability? And to take control of currency value out of the hands of governments (who have a vested interest in maintaining stability) and into the hands of commodity traders, who are driven by profit? That sounds like a great idea. Gee, I wonder why we've never tried commodity-backed currency before.

This is not a thread for the debate of currencies economics. Please find or start a thread in General if you wish to discuss them.

As for the application of currencies in FT, most notably the 'economic crisis' someone apprently wants to portray, then you're just going to either do the research yourself or, like the vast majority of the players do, handwave it. Huerdae and others have given very sound advice on this matter. You most likely never going to get a better answer than what you have been given.

[Dreadful Sagittarius]

I do plan to make subtle references to economic issues though, and it may be important for story reasons in my opinion.

Does anyone know a good economic person on NS that could theoretically help?

By all means make references, say that an impending economic collapse is forcing you to expand territory or whatever, but never make the mistake that your economy is a vital part of the FT community and everyone else is the same. I'm not interested in what company has the best stock options, I want to know how it affects your people and culture. Show me effects, not explanations!

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

I do plan to make subtle references to economic issues though, and it may be important for story reasons in my opinion.

Does anyone know a good economic person on NS that could theoretically help?

By all means make references, say that an impending economic collapse is forcing you to expand territory or whatever, but never make the mistake that your economy is a vital part of the FT community and everyone else is the same. I'm not interested in what company has the best stock options, I want to know how it affects your people and culture. Show me effects, not explanations!

Thats what I'm talking about, but I also want some stuff and all that.

Which is why I hope to meet someone good with economy stuff, but I am alright with not getting to list down economic stuff.

[Vernii]

While Huerdae is right that these things hardly ever matter in RPs, and Voc is correct that this isn't the thread for a debate between modern fiat and 19th century gold standards, the thread's purpose is of course, to provide advice on what is realistic. On that note, pegging your currency value to gold or silver in FT is pretty ridiculous, even if it would never come up in an RP, simply for the fact that it is not nearly as valuable in FT as is it today in RL. The amount of gold mined throughout the entirety of human history to date doesn't even reach 200,000 tons, because it's rare on Earth. That fact does not hold true in space, where there are small asteroids that contain multiple times more gold in them than we've ever produced on Earth. The same goes for other metals, 16 Pysche contains enough nickel-iron in it to satisfy our current production needs for the next million years, and yes, platinum and silver are going to be just as cheap. Gold in FT should honestly be treated with the same disposability that we afford to aluminum foil today, and you certainly don't see anyone clamoring to back their currency with aluminum foil do you?

Aluminum even makes a perfect analogy for it because it used to be an incredibly expensive metal to produce, was even more valuable than gold , right up until a new and far more energy efficient process for producing it was invented, and now it's less than $1/lb.

Honestly if you're going to peg it to something then you should peg it to water or energy production (both would still be a bad idea, but this is assuming you're at least wanting the most sensible of a variety of bad options).

EDIT: If you want an economic crisis, a foreign reserve shortage is a decent way to go about it. Basically, let's say your nation imports more than it exports, but that your currency isn't accepted in many other nations (ie, while a dollar can be spent in lots of nations as a dollar, and easily converted into local currency everywhere, good luck spending say, a Brazilian Real in its current form in the US or Europe). So, your nation is importing more than its exporting, and on top of that, merchants aren't accepting your credits because they can't spend them anywhere else, which means your own corporations and government thus need to purchase large amounts of foreign currencies to pay for foreign goods, and the situation can easily become A Problem.

[Vorkova]

How would military commands work in regard to FT? I have my forces assigned to military districts, which are formed into military regions in wartime.

If I deployed forces to an allied nation or started an offensive against an enemy nation, would I assign them to a temporary expeditionary command?