NATION

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Future Tech Advice and Assistance Thread [O.O.C.]

A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]

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Vocenae
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Postby Vocenae » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:45 pm

Well, luckily the great thing about FT and the FT community is that so long as he makes things consistent with the rest of his nation's themes and aesthetics and not intending to 'iWin', he can have his light air cavalry if he so pleases. Just like how you can play 'hard' even though like nearly no one else does.
Last edited by Vocenae on Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Valefore
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Postby Valefore » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:49 am

Thank you @Vocenae.

Also, @Kassaaran, I could argue that there's a lot less that's unrealistic about my approach than you seem to believe (there IS a method to my madness). There are many examples of things being phased out of the battlefield in our history for a variety of reasons; many of which are some of the same reasons my nation has phased out tanks. Realistically, it makes little sense IMO to continue producing a war machine that has been proven to be ineffective. However, to explain my reasoning a bit more here are some of the things that led me to this as it were...

-The last war my people fought was their 4th world war. By the end of it, anti-tank railguns had made a mockery of every defensive system they had that could be mounted on a tank (and they did actually have quite a lot of these) that they had ever produced... Even when energy shields were first developed after said war, they were somewhat like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound when forced to deal with railgun fire.

-Unlike the real world where the military industrial complex basically owns the politicians and can waste taxpayer $$$ on useless garbage, my nation does not have this problem; at least not nearly as badly as in the real world.

-While continuing to produce them anyway might have created good, respectable jobs for soldiers returning to civilian life, the population was so badly depleted, and so much infrastructure was wrecked from the war that there was no shortage of respectable jobs that paid well (especially construction jobs); the opposite was actually the case in the Dominion. There was a shortage of people to actually fill all of the jobs that were available... And many of those jobs were deemed more important than manufacturing new tanks.

-Budget constraints... The man-portable anti-tank weapons were a hell of a lot cheaper than the tanks were. The ammo wasn't exactly retardedly priced either...

-After the beating ass whooping tanks took in the war, not even the dumbest soldier wanted to crew what was considered to be a death trap... Making them drones just added to their price tag and maintenance requirements, and they'd still be a death trap despite the lack of "living" casualties.

-Air and aerospace units of the time (during and after the above mentioned war) were largely capable of fulfilling the same roles as tanks, artillery, IFV's, and APC's... And were more versatile and useful in other ways as well, so it was considered to be only logical that these craft step in and do just that.

I digress however, as I'm not really looking to start an argument. Rather, my point is that I'm aiming for a "logical" approach based on in character historical events and rationale rather than a realistic approach based on our understanding of real world military forces and their capabilities... I've always had an issue (deep in the back of my mind) when the FT community tries to apply realism to FT... Especially when the race involved is not human (rubber forehead aliens here), and probably wouldn't approach things the same way we do/did. Also, who's to say that 100 years from now (or more) even man-portable anti-tank weapons might become so advanced that tanks end up going the way of cavalry or the battleship because defensive measures fail to keep pace, or some other reason outside the realm of current military know how?

Aside from that, thanks for the different perspectives and opinions to those who replied. I'm not likely to change much yet, but once I actually get to RPing, I'll likely look to progressing things and this has got me thinking about how that would take effect.
Last edited by Valefore on Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lubyak
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Postby Lubyak » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:09 am

As I am fond of saying, in FT anything is possible, since anyone can handwave anything they want into working as well as they want it to work. What's important is that whatever a player asserts should: a) be internally consistent, and--importantly I think--b) fit that player's aesthetic.

Application of RL principles may be helpful, but is also not binding in the same way that it would be in a more realistic (or hell even a hard SF) setting.

Using myself as an example: I am an active flounting of anything that could ever be called realistic. I justify it using made up tech, and it all seems to fit because whatever I end up claiming is all internally consistent and fit and enhance my aesthetic.

Now, of course the ultimate test is the "iWin" test. If you're ever doing anything in FT for the OOC goal of 'I want to be better than and beat people in war', then stop and rethink.1 However, here I'm not seeing that. Suspension of disbelief can go quite far, I think, especially when greased with a healthy helping of the 4Cs we keep banging on about.

Making an army that's fully air mobile and eschews most forms of vehicles is definitely an aesthetic, and can definitely be justified. Any crinkles in the issue could no doubt be ironed out with a little bit of OOC co-operation and planning.

So, to get to a very long point: Valeyard, I don't see anything wrong with the kind of military you described. You clearly have the rest of the culture designed that explains and justifies why your nation developed this way, and the tech as well. I look forward to see where you go with this.



1: It is of course, entirely acceptable, and even admirable for a new weapon system to be designed and made in such a way that it is driven by character's IC goals to help their nation win a war, rather than the player's OOC desire to win RP.

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Tierra Prime
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Postby Tierra Prime » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:54 pm

Hittanryan wrote:
Tierra Prime wrote:
No, more like "inner rim, mid rim, outer rim."

The general idea is that the cluster my nation is located in is based around a large black hole, so it's circular.

What about "central," "expansion," and "frontier"?

The Central District, the Expansion Region, and the Imperial Frontier.

They actually sound pretty good. I think I'll put them into my factbook later today.
Last edited by Tierra Prime on Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Neornith
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Postby Neornith » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:41 am

Kassaran wrote:
Valefore wrote:More details for my earlier question...

So, I'm largely going off of the idea that the development of several hand-held high-powered weapons such as railguns and the more advanced missile technologies that have been developed by my nation are actually capable of, at a minimum, mission killing a tank if not actually destroying one with a significant level of reliability at a variety of ranges.

Not that futuristic honestly. Just sounds like Humanity or whatever Valeforians are, got better ballistic weapons...

This is mentioned in my factbook although not in an extensive amount of detail as of yet. So, considering that these weapons are already pretty commonly used,

As are AT-4's, Javelins, RPG's, and other forms of anti-armor weaponry including mines and IED's...

and they have a history of making a mockery of the defensive systems and tech available in my nation that are traditionally used in the construction of armored vehicles,
It sounds like your MIC isn't very good at making armor in general, or at least creating countermeasure systems... continue on.
they decided that producing large numbers of these expensive platforms; manned or unmanned, was largely a waste of resources and money when a weapon that costs a fraction of the price and resources can be so successful at kill them.
This never stopped the real world from doing that for some very good reasons, I'll get to that in a moment.
The fact that those same resources were needed more for the reconstruction of civilian infrastructure after a devastating world war also had a lot of influence in the decision making process.
Never stopped post Great War Germany from rebuilding fleets of Pz II's and Pz III's.
When it comes to transporting troops, they've been largely forced to make use of a combination of armed dropships and shuttles (essentially making them into air cavalry), as well as mobility enhancing anti-gravity units to counter the lack of ground based transports.
MEAGU's (your mobility enhancing yada-yada) are the next logical step up from 'ground based transports', not an alternative. They offer better surface traverse and crossing ability than any terrestrially-bound vehicle ever would. Your armed dropships are also entirely reasonable and we make use of those today, so nothing new there save for your unwillingness to use mechanized infantry (which is confusing me to no end if you have MEAGUs anyways).
Also, they have pretty big landing ships (that detach from their space craft) that can function as forward operating bases to get them where they're needed.

These dropships, and other air/space units are also used to provide heavier weapons support to ground forces when its needed similar to say an Apache or some other type of gunship...

So, you just use overwhelming air superiority to engage enemy armor? That makes sense. Doesn't mean you don't need some sort of fighting vehicle in the end...
Of course, I'm not saying that its a good idea from a modern, "realistic" point of view... However, its what they have to work with so far based on their own experiences which have been decidedly alien in comparison to ours here in the real world... Also, I'm going for the soft sci-fi approach; not the hard sci-fi one so there's that too...
So, thoughts?

My initial thoughts are you're not really doing much new here, you're just eschewing a part of modern warfare, citing improved kill-capabilities resolved your MIC's willingness (or unwillingness in all reality), to make ground-based vehicles. You still use MEAGU-type transports which means you just have motorized infantry... but motorized infantry can still have some support. Like others said, even one heavier weapon system deployed alongside your troops might be best. Force multipliers don't ever detract from a group's fighting ability, but they do add to it. For example, you said you have advanced missile technologies, right? Well, use a forward VBMLS, that would be best and would offer ample support. A single VBMLS using larger caliber and highly effective missiles would do infinitely more for a fighting force than your infantry-utilized variants would.

I do, however, understand if these were among the number one casualty causing weapons in your military during the war, at which point treaties and whatnot might have forced their construction to be halted or stopped indefinitely. Then again, I'm just one voice, and I try to stick with some realism in FT, regardless of everyone else's pleas to leave it behind.

Being an avian based alien species that spent most their history in trees to escape the mega fauna from below it never made sense to me for them to develop ground vehicles because they didn't really need them. Instead their entire armed forces is a multitude of air vehicles and power armored infantry for when they need boots on the ground and to this point it's honestly never been an issue for me to have an entire air mobile force.

I did this for a couple reasons first off it didn't make sense for a flying species to rely heavily on ground armor or vehicles because that's not something they used throughout their history. Secondly I like to try different things when it comes to the military when using FT instead of being the same cookie cutter military that virtually everyone in MT uses, it's just not that interesting to me in all honestly.

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The Pacifican Islands
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Postby The Pacifican Islands » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:11 am

Hey guys!

I've always done MT and PMT rps my entire NS life but I want to try out some FT stuff. I want to get in but I'm not sure where to start. I've read all the guides, and I've decided I want my FT nation to be sort of a post-planetfall republic based off of the nation I have currently. I want to create a factbook and other things, but I'm not sure where to start. Can you guys help me? Thanks in advance! (Sorry if this disturbs you)

EDIT: should I create a new nation?
Last edited by The Pacifican Islands on Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sunset
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Postby Sunset » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:10 am

The Pacifican Islands wrote:Hey guys!

I've always done MT and PMT rps my entire NS life but I want to try out some FT stuff. I want to get in but I'm not sure where to start. I've read all the guides, and I've decided I want my FT nation to be sort of a post-planetfall republic based off of the nation I have currently. I want to create a factbook and other things, but I'm not sure where to start. Can you guys help me? Thanks in advance! (Sorry if this disturbs you)

EDIT: should I create a new nation?


There's a bunch of ways to start, but based on your own suggestion, I would start with the factbook. Create a new one under your existing nation and then answer the Six W's - Who, What, When, Where, Why, And HoW. A sentence or a paragraph each covering the major details of your proposed FT state. With that done, give it a try. Write a short story about the day in the life of a person from your nation, again hitting the Six W's. It could be a soldier, government official, or the mailman. Or even a lowly ensign assigned to swab the decks. This will help you pick out areas in your factbook that just don't work, or that you don't like, and either discard, improve, or change them. Then write another short based on the newly re-worked factbook and ask yourself if you really like writing characters and events based in this place. If you do, great - you're ready to go. With even six paragraphs you'll be ahead of the pack!

If you want some help or some advice in something like real-time, feel free to hop on the NSMentor Discord or ask and I'll send you an invite to the NSFT Discord chat. Just don't get too caught up in building your world; Worldbuilding should be organic and accompany writing, whether roleplaying, factbooking, or even just writing for yourself. See you in the future...
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Kassaran
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Postby Kassaran » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:44 am

Welp, just got up my first interstellar trade agreement, an open-ended, open-membership, multilateral agreement with heavy roots in neo-liberal capitalist ideals. I like it, but it got me wondering what more I need to consider as well as what other sorts of political agreements should I be looking to set up? What agreements and treaties do your nations have FTAAT and how can I better organise or structure mine to fit what I'm going for?

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The Pacifican Islands
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Postby The Pacifican Islands » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:10 am

Sunset wrote:
The Pacifican Islands wrote:Hey guys!

I've always done MT and PMT rps my entire NS life but I want to try out some FT stuff. I want to get in but I'm not sure where to start. I've read all the guides, and I've decided I want my FT nation to be sort of a post-planetfall republic based off of the nation I have currently. I want to create a factbook and other things, but I'm not sure where to start. Can you guys help me? Thanks in advance! (Sorry if this disturbs you)

EDIT: should I create a new nation?


There's a bunch of ways to start, but based on your own suggestion, I would start with the factbook. Create a new one under your existing nation and then answer the Six W's - Who, What, When, Where, Why, And HoW. A sentence or a paragraph each covering the major details of your proposed FT state. With that done, give it a try. Write a short story about the day in the life of a person from your nation, again hitting the Six W's. It could be a soldier, government official, or the mailman. Or even a lowly ensign assigned to swab the decks. This will help you pick out areas in your factbook that just don't work, or that you don't like, and either discard, improve, or change them. Then write another short based on the newly re-worked factbook and ask yourself if you really like writing characters and events based in this place. If you do, great - you're ready to go. With even six paragraphs you'll be ahead of the pack!

If you want some help or some advice in something like real-time, feel free to hop on the NSMentor Discord or ask and I'll send you an invite to the NSFT Discord chat. Just don't get too caught up in building your world; Worldbuilding should be organic and accompany writing, whether roleplaying, factbooking, or even just writing for yourself. See you in the future...


Thank you so much! I've done what you said, and I think I'm satisfied. Got any feedback?

The Federation of Pacifican Stellar Republics

Who
The civilians and descendants of the Pacifican Islands following planetfall in 2167.

What
The PSR is a democratic federation of 5 billion spread across 9 republics, spanning 6 systems (Hawaiki, Victoria, Kamloops, Suaka, Styles, Inverness). Most systems have one inhabitable planet, for the exception of the Victoria System and the Suaka System, with 2 each. The most populated system is the Suaka System, hosting over 2.75 billion people, most of Indonesian descent. The least populated is the frontier system of Inverness, with a population of 27 million.

When
The current standard time in the PSR is 2212.

Why
Earth was evacuated between 2152 and 2169 following the Crisis. A massive alien virus arrived in 2149, only known as V-1221. It caused massive global famine and disease, then was followed by a second, successful kaiju invasion. The Pacifican Islands banded together to send out colony ships, and by November 2169, a month before the Sol Quarantine Zone was officially put in place, most of the population of the nation was rescued.

How
Pacifican FTL technology was discovered in 2134 by Pacifican scientists from Hilo Cosmodrome, which launched the nation's first FTL vessel in 2141. At the time, FTL travel wasn't used as it wasn't seen as necessary, until the Crisis.


"Folks, we're about to dock at New Honolulu International Spaceport. I'm happy to inform you that it's a beautiful day in Honolulu on the ground today at 25c. Enjoy beautiful Waikiki beach and the other non touristy delights for my fellow kama'aina. I hope to see you guys again on Pacifican Spaceways, and with our ohana in Pacifican Airways. For those who don't know or remember, walk straight ahead for a shuttle to New Honolulu International Airport. Flight attendants, please be seated for docking."

I travel between Kotaaman and New Honolulu almost every week, but I still listen to the announcements, every single flight. Instinctively, I turned off my teledevice. Re-entry is the only point in the entire system where there was no connection. I put the cylindrical teledevice in my bag and I took the small drink from my cup holder and chugged it. The sensation on my tongue was strange. It's a drink only served in space, as it contains chemical and natural agents that helped with the rigours of faster than light travel, for whatever reason. I'm not a scientist. It has a minty green colour, coupled with a carbonated texture and a distinct taste that I could only describe as a nice sour, yet not sweet. The aromas of the drink quickly disappeared as it all went into my stomach. I put the now crumpled cup into a hole in the side of the wall, which carried the white paper cup marked with "Pacifican Spaceways" into a tube, which shot it to, what I presume, is the trash chute in the galley. I quickly put on my seatbelt for what I hated the most in traveling through space. I frantically look out the window and I see a tendril of the station. It won't be long now. I feel the craft move sideways before I lose all weight in my body. I feel as if I would begin to move up if it wasn't for the belt. I close my eyes as I prepare for what is even worse. Clunk. It's docked. All of a sudden, I feel my entire weight fall to the seat again, for a second, it feels like falling from Federation Tower in New Honolulu. I did that once for a company "team building" activity. That wasn't fun. For those who don't know, Federation Tower reaches an entire mile in the sky over Downtown, and was opened in 2200, on the 33rd anniversary of the founding of the Pacifican Stellar Republics. The PSR was founded in 2167, immediately after planetfall and the Crisis. Earth was infected by some strange type of alien-mold virus (with icky larva) then was invaded by a race of alien kaiju. And, from what I remember from school, basically killed everything, and almost every Terran Pacifican was evacuated to what is now the Kamloops System, before New Honolulu was founded and the Hawaiki System was populated. Well, I wouldn't know personally. I was born and raised in Vancouver in the Kamloops System, named for Vancouver, a city on Earth that was taken over by the virus and the aliens, and the first one on the planet to be taken out with a fusion nuclear weapon. In downtown (new) Vancouver was a massive pillar inscribed with 1.1 million names of those in (old) Vancouver who died in the blast before they could be evacuated. My grandfather would always weep there and speak of a grandma I never met. Anyways, I opened my eyes as the captain turned on the PA and released me, saying:

"All clear. We are docked safely."

Raising from my seat (along with the 700 others onboard), I took to the overhead bins and recovered my carry on bag. It was a medium sized black box, covered in a luxurious leather material. Technology's advanced a lot, and the leather was grown out of a plant in a strange lab in the mountains north of Vancouver. I set the carry on on the ground and pressed a small blue button, which made it levitate slightly off of the floor. It did levitate, because I've now remembered to charge it every traveling night, as once in Vancouver-Kerow International Spaceport, it ran out of power, and collapsed to the ground. I had to carry a smooth, heavy box for a kilometre! The carry on bag was one of a select few things that still need to charge for over an hour, which basically meant putting it over a designated spot in my home or a hotel room.

Walking out of the spacecraft, I turned my head to stare at the craft. It was a sleek white craft, and slung on the rear was a glowing white and blue ring, emblazoned with the Pacifican logo. I've never actually taken a look at the craft in such detail and for such length. From what I read in the in-flight program, Pacifican was one of the select few companies to not fully collapse during the Crisis, along with Air South Pacific, that now took on a new name (InterSpace) that wasn't reminiscent of what it formerly was. From the geostationary spaceport, I caught myself looking down towards the beautiful planet below, where six bright lights shone brightly in a slight semi circle shape, surrounded by a sea of pitch-black darkness. I'm not familiar with the ever changing political geography of the Capitol Islands, but I knew for a fact that on the second island from the west, on an island named O'ahu was a bright, bright light of over 30 million, named New Honolulu.

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Vocenae
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Postby Vocenae » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:43 pm

Just felt like I should link a Youtube channel I found recently that goes over various spacecraft found in various science fiction franchises.

Spacedock. This guy, as said, has a ton of videos and gives a pretty comprehensive breakdown of starfighters and warships across the genre. He's also trying to branch out into doing planetside vehicles and so forth, but not many videos on that. Every once in a while he also does combat simulations that pit two different craft against each other to see which one would be 'better'. Overall, decent little channel for sci-fi nerds.

Though for the record I'll say that if you are inspired by any of the ships on his channel, you should try to use them as a base and then put your own particular spin on them rather than just straight up copy-paste from any established media franchise.
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Ivor De Prie
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Postby Ivor De Prie » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:38 am

Could a FT army using bolt-action weapons, firing lasers and or similarly potent rounds hold its own against a force fielding automatic weapons?

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Kassaran
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Postby Kassaran » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:59 am

Ivor De Prie wrote:Could a FT army using bolt-action weapons, firing lasers and or similarly potent rounds hold its own against a force fielding automatic weapons?

And here's where the number one argument in FT comes in; Do you want the classical, or the romantic point of view?
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Zarkenis Ultima wrote:Tristan noticed footsteps behind him and looked there, only to see Eric approaching and then pointing his sword at the girl. He just blinked a few times at this before speaking.

"Put that down, Mr. Eric." He said. "She's obviously not a chicken."
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bloody hell, mate.
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Sunset
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Postby Sunset » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:40 pm

Kassaran wrote:
Ivor De Prie wrote:Could a FT army using bolt-action weapons, firing lasers and or similarly potent rounds hold its own against a force fielding automatic weapons?

And here's where the number one argument in FT comes in; Do you want the classical, or the romantic point of view?


Kassaran! I had no idea... <3, you softy you...

Ivor De Prie; Depends on whether you want to hold to it through thick'n'thin or whether you want to consider the possible ramifications first. Now, in my mind... It doesn't matter. In a 'High Science-Fiction' battlefield the individual soldier probably wouldn't touch their weapon at all and the winner of an individual encounter would be determined not by the strength, skill, and agility of the individual soldier but by the software driving the automatic acquisition, targeting, and engagement system on their war machine of choice. The advanced optics and other sensory platforms required for space combat will migrate rapidly down to the individual soldier (as will the cost!) and their engagement ranges will move so far beyond eyesight that the soldier will mostly be there to... Dunno. No real reason for them to be there. That, as they say, would be the classical path of advancement. Even in an asynchronous environment (urban combat with civilians present) those same systems will eventually eclipse the ability of the individual soldier to pick out and engage the 'right' target - or one side just won't care and will let the auto-engagement systems mow them all down.

But if you want to disregard the advancement of technology to hold up the high-minded ideal of the Individual Soldier fighting for God and Country...

Go for it. Just don't involve the technology in your crafting; That is a sure invitation for someone else to involve technology in their own. Remember that you can be consistent in omission as well as in inclusion.
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Bakra
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Postby Bakra » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:12 pm

Vocenae wrote:Just felt like I should link a Youtube channel I found recently that goes over various spacecraft found in various science fiction franchises.

Spacedock. This guy, as said, has a ton of videos and gives a pretty comprehensive breakdown of starfighters and warships across the genre. He's also trying to branch out into doing planetside vehicles and so forth, but not many videos on that. Every once in a while he also does combat simulations that pit two different craft against each other to see which one would be 'better'. Overall, decent little channel for sci-fi nerds.

Though for the record I'll say that if you are inspired by any of the ships on his channel, you should try to use them as a base and then put your own particular spin on them rather than just straight up copy-paste from any established media franchise.


Spacedock is a good one, I always enjoy watching those videos. Speaking, of YouTube channels, here are a few I think you guys would enjoy.

Issac Arthur-Truly one of the hidden gems of YouTube, his entire channel is dedicated to science fiction in a quest to make better science fiction writers. The guy writes about everything from stellar phenomena, societies in science fiction, war, politics, implications of technology, etc. Makes every Thursday a little better for me. He has a speech impediment that he jokes about, just use Closed Captions until you get used to it.

PBS's SpaceTime-Theoretical and astronomical physics for the layman. I only understand about 50% of what he's saying on my first try through a video, but all in all a worthy watch. He also covers science fiction topics and implications of the physics he discusses.

Fraser Cain-He's sort of like Issac Arthur (who sometimes collaborates with him) but with more focus on the nitty gritty science and some more contemporary science. He doesn't shy away from science fiction though and always been a good supply of insight for me.

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Valefore
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Postby Valefore » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:14 pm

Ivor De Prie wrote:Could a FT army using bolt-action weapons, firing lasers and or similarly potent rounds hold its own against a force fielding automatic weapons?


Honestly the answer to this might just be it depends.

If you're going for a hard science fiction approach based in realism and an understanding of the real world, then the answer is no... Although, there are a few things I can think of that you could do to possibly mitigate it as a disadvantage. For example, your soldiers could make use of something like a police riot shield to provide mobile cover. Having your guns link up to a very finely tuned targeting system so that "every shot counts" could also go some way to mitigating it as a disadvantage... You'd probably still get mauled though.

If, however, you're more into soft science fiction such as, say, space opera where things like rule of cool matter more than adhering to realism, then yes. In this case, you're weapons will be as effective as the plot requires, so they would be able to hold their own as it were... In this case, it would help to have a reason(s) as to why they use such weapons instead of automatic weapons. Once that's been done though, as long as you're consistent with writing it, you'll probably find that there won't be many problems with it. Most of the community seems to be cool like that from what I've seen.
Last edited by Valefore on Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Excidium Planetis
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Postby Excidium Planetis » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:01 am

Valefore wrote:
Ivor De Prie wrote:Could a FT army using bolt-action weapons, firing lasers and or similarly potent rounds hold its own against a force fielding automatic weapons?


If you're going for a hard science fiction approach based in realism and an understanding of the real world, then the answer is no...

Bolt action weapons still have a place in the real world, despite the real world being the ultimate in realism. I assume even in hard sci fi bolt action weapons would have their place as specialized weapons (such as sniper weapons) or as regular infantry weapons if, for example, ammunition is expensive to produce.
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Postby Stormwrath » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:15 am

Excidium Planetis wrote:
Valefore wrote:
If you're going for a hard science fiction approach based in realism and an understanding of the real world, then the answer is no...

Bolt action weapons still have a place in the real world, despite the real world being the ultimate in realism. I assume even in hard sci fi bolt action weapons would have their place as specialized weapons (such as sniper weapons) or as regular infantry weapons if, for example, ammunition is expensive to produce.

Well, it's hard to say. After all, the reason why bolt-action firearms are seeing limited use in the real world these days is because automatic weapons are more convenient. But that would be just me.

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Tierra Prime
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Postby Tierra Prime » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:12 am

Ivor De Prie wrote:Could a FT army using bolt-action weapons, firing lasers and or similarly potent rounds hold its own against a force fielding automatic weapons?

If you're going down the route of using single-shot laser weapons, you'd be best off using a hand crank rather than a bolt. A hand cranked rifle can be very easily justified IC as it won't require ammunition and can be used with minimal training. Your logistics will be very easy this way, though your soldiers probably won't do well in urban environments. That won't really matter though if you're going for quantity over quality, which I gather you probably are. I use hand cranked rifles as simple point-and-shoot weapons in local militas, but there's no reason why you couldn't use them as mainline weapons if that's what you want. They would fit in very well in a WWI or 40k Imperial Guard inspired army, along with firing lines, trenches, and so on.
Last edited by Tierra Prime on Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:13 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby SquareDisc City » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:38 am

For humans, hand-cranked seems like it's asking to be inaccurate. Of course non-humans might not have such issues.

I will admit the idea of the standard infantry weapon being 'bolt-action' seems a bit odd. There are other options like burst fire, semi-automatic, even pump action. But I'm sure there are countless ways it could be justified.
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Tierra Prime
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Postby Tierra Prime » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:44 am

SquareDisc City wrote:For humans, hand-cranked seems like it's asking to be inaccurate. Of course non-humans might not have such issues.

How so?

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Postby Kassaran » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:59 am

Bolt action just seems like it fights naturally with the vibe of FT, but then again that's just the flavor I like of FT (and I'm saying that before those of you who will rush to the very much unneeded defense of retro-futurist aesthetics do so).

I always found hand-cranked options to be better for steam-punk settings while bolt-action weaponry seems to be a bit... well, manual for what you really want. The main thing to ask here is 'why is the weapon hand-cranked'? You've already settled on the Aesthetic you wanted, and there's no real talking someone out of a desired aesthetic when you can just hand-wave the questions with 'Future-Tech'. So, why is the weapon bolt-action operated? Is it only single-shot uses? Maybe the bolt action is for something entirely different? Maybe the laser is projected from a point in the stock into a set of highly-fragile and yet powerfully calibrated lenses designed to incinerate themselves and add matter to the laser and allow it to project itself further along a line? The result is that the lenses have to be replaced each time after a shot and then, presto! You have your bolt-action aesthetic justification.

Of course people will say," why not just have it on a revolving magazine, or a spring-fed. You can respond with perhaps," revolvers exist, but their projection range is significantly diminished because there's more diffraction closer to the lenses." and "spring-fed has been tried, but it's far too rough on the lenses and there's a high rate-of-failure when they're used, ultimately bolt-action works best because the user can handle the round personally and inspect each shot before firing to ensure it will not fail. A cartridge that fails when fired likely will overheat and slag the weapon, significantly injuring if not grievously so, the user.
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Postby Sunset » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:33 am

SquareDisc City wrote:For humans, hand-cranked seems like it's asking to be inaccurate. Of course non-humans might not have such issues.

I will admit the idea of the standard infantry weapon being 'bolt-action' seems a bit odd. There are other options like burst fire, semi-automatic, even pump action. But I'm sure there are countless ways it could be justified.


We actually use pump-action energy weapons of a sort; The survival weapons in SDF escape pods are patterned after a pump-action shotgun except the ammunition is Drake-style particle discs. The pump both moves the next round into position and charges a capacitor to 'align the matrix' or whatever techno-babble it is that Drake-style party guns use. The pump action can also be used to charge or power other electronics via a simple selector switch - pretty much everything in an escape pod is a multi-tasker, even the tent poles. Why not use a battery? Well, what if the battery goes dead, or the survivors are stuck for so long the battery goes dead, or... They do have a bayonet ring and you can always club someone pretty good with a couple feet of iridium barrel!

But this does suggest a notion and an agreement with Kassaran for Ivor De Prie as well; The bolt-action could be as much stylish as functional. Perhaps the weapon itself is semi-automatic or even automatic, but the bolt must be worked to charge the chamber for the next series of shots. Maybe it's a system to auto-realign the focusing rings? There's lots of ways and reasons why it could be but in the end it is simply stylish to have the troopers at the barricades working their bolts frantically as they fend off a wave of biological horrors...
Last edited by Sunset on Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Lubyak » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:51 pm

All I have to say is that I use bolt action weapons as my standard infantry weapon, and no one has ever objected to it, or complained.

If you want the aesthetic of bolt action weapons, then go ahead. You can then choose to go into detail on the justifications or not. There is no 'realistic' in FT unless you're going for hard FT. Presuming you're going for a more space opera-esque setting, then there's no problem.

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Postby SquareDisc City » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:11 pm

Tierra Prime wrote:
SquareDisc City wrote:For humans, hand-cranked seems like it's asking to be inaccurate. Of course non-humans might not have such issues.

How so?
I assumed you're talking about a crank handle that you turn, like on a Gatling gun or an old car. When you turn that you're pushing it up and down or side to side, and on a weapon you're holding that's going to push the weapon around impairing accuracy.

I remember now I actually have a water pistol with a crank fire mechanism, and it was pretty useless for just that reason, I couldn't aim for shit with it. Fortunately it also had a regular trigger.
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Tierra Prime
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Postby Tierra Prime » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:50 pm

SquareDisc City wrote:
Tierra Prime wrote:How so?
I assumed you're talking about a crank handle that you turn, like on a Gatling gun or an old car. When you turn that you're pushing it up and down or side to side, and on a weapon you're holding that's going to push the weapon around impairing accuracy.

I remember now I actually have a water pistol with a crank fire mechanism, and it was pretty useless for just that reason, I couldn't aim for shit with it. Fortunately it also had a regular trigger.

I probably should have explained this better. You don't crank it while you're firing, you crank it, aim, fire, then crank it again to reload.
Last edited by Tierra Prime on Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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