Future Tech Advice and Assistance Thread [O.O.C.]

[Lubyak]

This is probably a stupid question, but what is the most 'powerful' an Artificial Superintelligence / A.S.I. / A.I. / Strong A.I. / Full A.I.?
And where is the limit before using A.I. becomes overpowered? Just wondering.

We don't really enforce any kind of 'tech tree' or limit type thing. Each type of AI will be as powerful as they need to be in order for the story to progress as needed/your nation needs for its canon. As far as being 'overpowered', I would caution you: there's no 'line' wherein you can be good on oneside, and OP on the other. The line on what's ok and what's not depends heavily on how the community views you. What's considered 'wankish' for one player may be considered ok in the hands of another. If you're concerned, talk to your RP partners about what you're planning and see what they think. You'll no doubt be able to work something out.

[The V O I D]

This is probably a stupid question, but what is the most 'powerful' an Artificial Superintelligence / A.S.I. / A.I. / Strong A.I. / Full A.I.?
And where is the limit before using A.I. becomes overpowered? Just wondering.

We don't really enforce any kind of 'tech tree' or limit type thing. Each type of AI will be as powerful as they need to be in order for the story to progress as needed/your nation needs for its canon. As far as being 'overpowered', I would caution you: there's no 'line' wherein you can be good on oneside, and OP on the other. The line on what's ok and what's not depends heavily on how the community views you. What's considered 'wankish' for one player may be considered ok in the hands of another. If you're concerned, talk to your RP partners about what you're planning and see what they think. You'll no doubt be able to work something out.

Thanks, Lubyak. I'll take this into mind.

[Tierra Prime]

Considering we are talking about AIs, I have a question. I'm not a fan of your typical machine-based AIs, so I came up with an alternative.

My question is, if you were to link several human minds to a computer system to create a sort of hivemind, would it still be considered an AI?

The idea is to create genetically altered humans that posses higher intelligence but lack emotions. Essentially, human robots that aren't truly alive.

[The Fedral Union]

Considering we are talking about AIs, I have a question. I'm not a fan of your typical machine-based AIs, so I came up with an alternative.

My question is, if you were to link several human minds to a computer system to create a sort of hivemind, would it still be considered an AI?

The idea is to create genetically altered humans that posses higher intelligence but lack emotions. Essentially, human robots that aren't truly alive.

Well depends on what you define as AI..It sounds like they're cyborgs to me, without getting in to the whole philosophical aspect of this, I don't see why a hive mind would be considered an AI.. Since you have inputs from a "biological" system.


PS:

The concept of over powered AI is relative to a point, there are those universes out there with really powerful AI (like the culture-verse) but even in that case it was made up for by other facets of the universe. In the end though just use common sense; if it sounds a bit wonky either well (patch it so that its not); or reevaluate the idea.

[Genomita]

I'm gonna repost this since it was skipped over last time

I'm currently in a bit of a dilemma and I was hoping you might help me with the decision. You see, up until now my nation's technology has established as completely organic, including the ships, weapons and even the clothing. However, I've always tried to keep my organic technology plausible, there are just some things you can't really do with biotech without going far to the soft side of the sci fi hardness scale, so I was thinking about wether or not the Genomitans should integrate some variety of what we might consider "conventional tech" into their own. It would still be largely organic and they wouldn't replace anything vital (no artificial organs or limbs, for example), but they might look for ways to harmonically integrate sensors, additional armor or nanotechnology into their biotech, blending the two in such a that it might be difficult to tell one from the other. This would present a number of interesting roleplaying advantages and disadvantages:

+Adding some amout of conventional tech, even in small amounts might add some plausibility to their brand of biotech,
+Since purely organic technology is often associated with things like hordes of alien locusts or malevolent hive minds, some amount of CT might take away from the "alien-ness" at first encounter. Since my nation is rather diplomatic, getting a chance to explain yourself before the natives open fire at you because they mistook you for the zerg would certainly be preferable.
+Adding to the point above, making their tech less alien to members of other groups would both allow for easier integration of immigrants (the 'noms are always happy to accept the willing) AND help my people find their way around on habitats created by other species without looking like idiots(What do you mean "what's a button?").
+As somebody pointed out to me, purely organic ships are highly unlikely to survive in combat against CT ships, no matter how well adapted they may be. Some added CT technology (additional armor plating that, while it cannot be regrown can be repaired later, perhaps even with materials salvaged from enemy ships, sensors, ship shields of some kind, things like that). They won't suddenly have onboard FTL, but they might learn a few new tricks to even the odds.

-Adding CT would increase the reliance on conventional materials as well, most of which are usually gained by mining or other environmentally harmful means. Since my people are really big on protecting the environment and living in symbiosis with their surroundings that would mean a greater reliance on trade with other nations (though that might also add some plausibility and provide roleplaying opportunities).

I'm sure there are others, but I'd love to hear your input as well. The main point is that my tech will still be largely organic, but with some CT integrated in harmonic ways. I think both the harmony affinity from Civ: beyond earth and the Tohaa from the Infinity tabletop game might be good sources of inspiration here, though I think both sides came from the other side of things (that is, starting with CT and adapting organic technology over time). I'd also appreciate other sources of inspiration to look into ^^

[The Ben Boys]

I'm currently in a bit of a dilemma and I was hoping you might help me with the decision. You see, up until now my nation's technology has established as completely organic, including the ships, weapons and even the clothing. However, I've always tried to keep my organic technology plausible, there are just some things you can't really do with biotech without going far to the soft side of the sci fi hardness scale, so I was thinking about wether or not the Genomitans should integrate some variety of what we might consider "conventional tech" into their own.

IMHO 40k is pretty soft when it comes to science, but they also explain nearly everything with technobabble or the ilk to keep it distinct form the science fantasy type stuff like Star Wars. I like this system because it allows creativity but also keeps me grounded. Query: Do you want to be able to explain everything or believe everything, if that makes sense.

It would still be largely organic and they wouldn't replace anything vital (no artificial organs or limbs, for example), but they might look for ways to harmonically integrate sensors, additional armor or nanotechnology into their biotech, blending the two in such a that it might be difficult to tell one from the other.

Just an idea, if you want to maintain consistency with the whole organic theme, why not have manufactured organs that accomplish these tasks? Like have organs that can smell/feel/"sense" for sensors, armor that "grows" similar to hair or a shell, and "programmable" cells to create a type of nanotechnology?

This would present a number of interesting roleplaying advantages and disadvantages:

+Adding some amout of conventional tech, even in small amounts might add some plausibility to their brand of biotech,
+Since purely organic technology is often associated with things like hordes of alien locusts or malevolent hive minds, some amount of CT might take away from the "alien-ness" at first encounter. Since my nation is rather diplomatic, getting a chance to explain yourself before the natives open fire at you because they mistook you for the zerg would certainly be preferable.
+Adding to the point above, making their tech less alien to members of other groups would both allow for easier integration of immigrants (the 'noms are always happy to accept the willing) AND help my people find their way around on habitats created by other species without looking like idiots(What do you mean "what's a button?").
+As somebody pointed out to me, purely organic ships are highly unlikely to survive in combat against CT ships, no matter how well adapted they may be. Some added CT technology (additional armor plating that, while it cannot be regrown can be repaired later, perhaps even with materials salvaged from enemy ships, sensors, ship shields of some kind, things like that). They won't suddenly have onboard FTL, but they might learn a few new tricks to even the odds.

-Adding CT would increase the reliance on conventional materials as well, most of which are usually gained by mining or other environmentally harmful means. Since my people are really big on protecting the environment and living in symbiosis with their surroundings that would mean a greater reliance on trade with other nations (though that might also add some plausibility and provide roleplaying opportunities).

You summed up the pros and cons pretty well, but a few comments. You're ships may be stronger with CT, but technobabble can be a good shield if you're worried about that. Looking at the human body, blood cells clot gaps pretty quickly, why not apply that to your ships in some way? A CT ship may be stronger but can't heal itself over time like a bio-ship can. And until machines can self-repair as well as us the robots won't take over.

Lastly, I think you're negative is a positive. Sure, you may not be able to gather the resources yourself but it gives your nation much more personality. Guns vs. butter crises are common in my nation, but it gives them a sense of resourcefulness and more personality. If you go with CT, covet the minerals and open up agreements with other nations centered on simple resource gathering. Heck, it would make a great enclave/outpost in Liu Xiu.

I'm sure there are others, but I'd love to hear your input as well. The main point is that my tech will still be largely organic, but with some CT integrated in harmonic ways. I think both the harmony affinity from Civ: beyond earth and the Tohaa from the Infinity tabletop game might be good sources of inspiration here, though I think both sides came from the other side of things (that is, starting with CT and adapting organic technology over time). I'd also appreciate other sources of inspiration to look into ^^

You get a cookie for mentioning Civ:BE. I was going to bring it up but saw you know it well enough. The online Civilopedia is an excellent source of inspiration in my experience. A Other inspiration is the Yuuzhan Vong in Star Wars and the Tyranids from 40k. I think the latter may be a bit horde-y for your taste, but still something to look into.

Additionally, maybe search "Flood infested ships" for good CT/bio ship combinations. Though not much exists on it, Starbound's highly aggressive Florans may help you too. If you still aren't done reading, you should consider checking out the Tropes page on insectoid aliens.

Hope this helped.

[The V O I D]

A Other inspiration is the Yuuzhan Vong in Star Wars and the Tyranids from 40k. I think the latter may be a bit horde-y for your taste, but still something to look into.

The Yuuzhan Vong are badass as all hell. You, sir, are now considered a friend of mine. Just for that. The Tyranids are also badass.

But, when it comes to saying "fuck you, nature" and "screw the laws of biology/physiology", the Blacklight Virus takes the cake in my opinion. Although, that's only because Goliaths are supposedly made from one person. Question; where the hell did all that biomass come from?

EDIT: Speaking of, would it be OP to have a 'controllable' Blacklight virus at your disposal as a WMD?

[Tierra Prime]

A Other inspiration is the Yuuzhan Vong in Star Wars and the Tyranids from 40k. I think the latter may be a bit horde-y for your taste, but still something to look into.

The Yuuzhan Vong are badass as all hell. You, sir, are now considered a friend of mine. Just for that. The Tyranids are also badass.

But, when it comes to saying "fuck you, nature" and "screw the laws of biology/physiology", the Blacklight Virus takes the cake in my opinion. Although, that's only because Goliaths are supposedly made from one person. Question; where the hell did all that biomass come from?

EDIT: Speaking of, would it be OP to have a 'controllable' Blacklight virus at your disposal as a WMD?

FT biological WMDs are something I've looked into in the past. As far as I'm aware, some people do use them, but usually only if said use is okay with the other RPers.

[Tierra Prime]

Considering we are talking about AIs, I have a question. I'm not a fan of your typical machine-based AIs, so I came up with an alternative.

My question is, if you were to link several human minds to a computer system to create a sort of hivemind, would it still be considered an AI?

The idea is to create genetically altered humans that posses higher intelligence but lack emotions. Essentially, human robots that aren't truly alive.

snip

I'm probably going to refer to it as an AI or as the "computer" anyway, but that is because of the scientific position the creators will take towards it. If these "human processors" are not considered to be truly alive, there is no issue with forcing them to interface with machines. The philosophical aspect is something I've been thinking about exploring in a RP, because even though my government doesn't consider them actual people (Due to the fact they aren't self-aware), they are still humans.

[The United Dominion]

A Other inspiration is the Yuuzhan Vong in Star Wars and the Tyranids from 40k. I think the latter may be a bit horde-y for your taste, but still something to look into.

The Yuuzhan Vong are badass as all hell. You, sir, are now considered a friend of mine. Just for that. The Tyranids are also badass.

But, when it comes to saying "fuck you, nature" and "screw the laws of biology/physiology", the Blacklight Virus takes the cake in my opinion. Although, that's only because Goliaths are supposedly made from one person. Question; where the hell did all that biomass come from?

EDIT: Speaking of, would it be OP to have a 'controllable' Blacklight virus at your disposal as a WMD?

It's only "OP" if it's RPed as such. No matter the description, especially in another canon, the fact that it has to go through cooperative deliberation with other players will automatically make it different than what you would expect were you in a vacuum. As a case example, my species is likely immune to this virus, unless we come up with a good story-based reason for them not to be that I think is worth pursuing.

[The V O I D]

The Yuuzhan Vong are badass as all hell. You, sir, are now considered a friend of mine. Just for that. The Tyranids are also badass.

But, when it comes to saying "fuck you, nature" and "screw the laws of biology/physiology", the Blacklight Virus takes the cake in my opinion. Although, that's only because Goliaths are supposedly made from one person. Question; where the hell did all that biomass come from?

EDIT: Speaking of, would it be OP to have a 'controllable' Blacklight virus at your disposal as a WMD?

It's only "OP" if it's RPed as such. No matter the description, especially in another canon, the fact that it has to go through cooperative deliberation with other players will automatically make it different than what you would expect were you in a vacuum. As a case example, my species is likely immune to this virus, unless we come up with a good story-based reason for them not to be that I think is worth pursuing.

Technically, if it were an exact copy of the Blacklight Virus, unless your species is also an adaptable organism which assimilates everything in sight, especially if an infected were say an Evolved, that is not entirely true. All one would need to do is say, have a weaponized/controlled Evolved soldier consume one of your people via deconstructing their DNA to the cellular level, eat said DNA and reconstruct it as useful as it can be. Then this Evolved just gets fed to the native Runner (specialized Evolved that can also generate new viral strains), and then cook up a strain that effects them.

Though, that's where we dabble into the lines of being somewhat OP, hence WMD designation. Evolved/Runners are somewhat like walking-WMDs if the 'victims' don't have proper weaponry. Considering an Evolved can reform from a puddle of biomass after being nuked using only a crow, that's also kind of OP in itself.

But if it's not an exact copy, there might be some differences that would allow for certain species to be immune. Still, would be interesting...

[The United Dominion]

It's only "OP" if it's RPed as such. No matter the description, especially in another canon, the fact that it has to go through cooperative deliberation with other players will automatically make it different than what you would expect were you in a vacuum. As a case example, my species is likely immune to this virus, unless we come up with a good story-based reason for them not to be that I think is worth pursuing.

Technically, if it were an exact copy of the Blacklight Virus, unless your species is also an adaptable organism which assimilates everything in sight, especially if an infected were say an Evolved, that is not entirely true. All one would need to do is say, have a weaponized/controlled Evolved soldier consume one of your people via deconstructing their DNA to the cellular level, eat said DNA and reconstruct it as useful as it can be. Then this Evolved just gets fed to the native Runner (specialized Evolved that can also generate new viral strains), and then cook up a strain that effects them.

Though, that's where we dabble into the lines of being somewhat OP, hence WMD designation. Evolved/Runners are somewhat like walking-WMDs if the 'victims' don't have proper weaponry. Considering an Evolved can reform from a puddle of biomass after being nuked using only a crow, that's also kind of OP in itself.

But if it's not an exact copy, there might be some differences that would allow for certain species to be immune. Still, would be interesting...

Except that isn't how RP works. In this case, it wouldn't be a matter of "overpowered" but of godmodding to automatically decide that even an exact copy couldn't be completely wiped out (or just not active) with physiologies of the people you're playing with. A virus is a virus, so even if you have a strain created as you described that could affect an alien species, that doesn't mean their immune systems can't still dominate it, especially with the aid of contemporary medicine. And that's without going into this assumption that one of these soldiers could consume one of them (one, you have to get a corpse somehow; two, you have to be physiologically capable of consuming them... and that part is where you are likely getting wanky by assuming these soldiers can eat anything without any harmful effects up to and including death).

So, still not OP - unless you're trying to force the issue, which is again not a problem with "overpoweredness", but with you the player being uncooperative and potentially godmodding to enforce your way of doing things.

If your definition of "exact copy" is "does exactly what the canon label says regardless of other RPers" then it's not appropriate for cooperative RPing in any case and has no place here.

I think I'm repeating myself, so I'll stop now.

Edit: Not quite! Re. Evolved/Runners - after the first time that happened, I think most people would just start disintegrating them completely or come up with a viable Evolved-specific countermeasure. Again, something to discuss with an RP partner. You can't really say "no, you can't combat them effectively because that's how it is."

[Lubyak]

Almost all WMDs are going to work as plot devices more so than anything else.

As such, their capabilities/limitations will be what is needed for the RP to proceed in a direction the players involved have agreed upon. As such, insistence on the absolute power of any weapon system/technology/ability will be heavily frowned upon. As I said earlier, RP is based entirely on player co-operation. Something becomes 'OP' when it makes RP un-fun and players decide they don't want to RP with you because of it.

In general, you should try to avoid anything where it seems like you're trying to 'toe the line' of being 'op'. Pursuing that course can create an impression that you're RPing to win moreso than anything else. When in doubt, try to stay on the safe side and present the thing you wish to use in the RP as an element of the story that drives the plot along, or even make it the centre piece of the RP itself. Both of these are ways to utilise something as a plot device that many players will accept.

[Excidium Planetis]

Thinking of making another FT civilization, but I want its citizens / primary species to be sapient non-animals. Of course, the typical choice would be plant, but...

I never really got Ent-like organisms. The closest plants on Earth are Venus Flytraps and other plants that can sort of move... but those plants seem a far cry from sapience or even full mobility. I can't see how an Ent would evolve. Additionally, there is a point where they just become photosynthesizing animals, pretty much, and that's not really unique.

I can imagine sapient plant networks... like that tree-goddess thing in Avatar (the sci-fi movie, not TLA). But such a species could never develop spaceflight on their own. Sapient crystals are out for the same reason. Sapient machines too, since they'd have to be created by something.

But that idea of sapient tree-networks made me think of fungal networks (some mushrooms are part of colonies, right?), and there is a stellar example of a mobile fungus on Earth: that one fungus that hijacks ants' brains and makes them climb plants above other ants to spread the spores.

But I wanted a symbiotic lifeform... not a fungus that mind controls and kills its hosts. But at the same time, the fungus needs at least indirect control over the host organism to really live. I thought giving pain for disobeying the fungus "mental prompts" could work... but then we have a master-slave relationship, which seems unstable and... unethical? A better idea I had was based on some experiments I saw in mind controlling rats: releasing dopamine when commands are followed. This essentially turns the host into a pleasure addict... but they still technically have free will and there is no negatives to refusing the fungus' orders.

So, I have a general idea of a species: A fungus that naturally forms sapient mushroom colonies, which can "infect" host organisms to direct them to fulfill tasks which aid the fungus colonies. Each colony is a separate sapient being, and the part of the fungus that is attached to a host is non-sapient but can be "programmed" by chemicals from a colony to give the host a set of commands.

The real question is, what else can each party get out of this relationship other than a servant / pleasure? I was thinking the fungus uses dead material from the hosts as food, and the fungus network attached to hosts increases a host's mental capabilities (perhaps even elevate them to sapience?) as a kind of biological "enhancement".

What do you think? Plausible? Would an organism willingly become a host to this fungus?

[The United Dominion]

I'm interested in the fact that you declared the sentient plant networks incapable of achieving space flight but somehow these spores could? I assume you have some kind of sapient species that the spores can take over native to the planet... in which case, you still need to come up with them and since they're the ones that physically do everything, they're really the ones who need more detail and suddenly this whole thing is really about them and they happen to have spores that can/do control them.

As far as ethics, those are relative. If the only way you have to succeed and achieve your needs is to form a master-slave parasitic relationship with another (probably, at least to you, lesser) species, I don't think you'd find it was unethical.

Also, how is this going to be RPed?

[Excidium Planetis]

I'm interested in the fact that you declared the sentient plant networks incapable of achieving space flight but somehow these spores could? I assume you have some kind of sapient species that the spores can take over native to the planet... in which case, you still need to come up with them and since they're the ones that physically do everything, they're really the ones who need more detail and suddenly this whole thing is really about them and they happen to have spores that can/do control them.

As far as ethics, those are relative. If the only way you have to succeed and achieve your needs is to form a master-slave parasitic relationship with another (probably, at least to you, lesser) species, I don't think you'd find it was unethical.

Also, how is this going to be RPed?

The sapient plants could not manipulate their environment... but through the use of hosts, the fungus could. Anyways, I assumed these hosts would actually be different species, whichever ones were native to the planet and capable of being infected. They would be non-sapient creatures, so really the fungus is still the main aspect. I mean, people recognize the Flood as the Flood, not as humans, elites, etc. that just happen to have a weird parasite on them.

Well, yeah, but the general reaction of humans (and probably other sapient species) is to wipe out a parasite that can turn them into slaves. The number of enemies my fungus race would have would be much greater with a negative form of control, than with a symbiotic relationship.

I don't know how I am going to RP it yet, since I am just working on the idea. Unlike a lot of RPers here, I actually enjoy figuring out the mechanics of a nation more than RPing.

[The United Dominion]

Well, yeah, but the general reaction of humans (and probably other sapient species) is to wipe out a parasite that can turn them into slaves. The number of enemies my fungus race would have would be much greater with a negative form of control, than with a symbiotic relationship.

So, you have two assumptions here. The first is just assuming how anyone else reacts at all. You might be accurate, but you still probably shouldn't do it. Add onto this assumption the fact that you're further not viewing this as having anything to do with cooperative RP but are still thinking with an RP mindset - namely, that you don't want to be "slavers" because "slavers" get destroyed. You're not focusing on the internal needs of the species as you might if you were just writing fiction on your own; you're focusing on "what do I need to do to not get curbstomped." The only place that makes sense is competitive RP.

The second assumption is that your species can turn everyone into slaves. As I said to Void earlier, just because you can take over Generic Host Body doesn't mean your virus/bacteria/fungus can take over the bodies of all species. It's likely, especially in your case more than his, to be limited to very few; primarily, those native to the fungi's home planet and whoever else OOCly wishes to allow it.

So if my species is immune to your fungus, or is resistant and only gets mild irritations and headaches with some nausea, then why would it matter if it can take over hosts? It's a medical problem that we might help another species overcome but eradication isn't really on the top of the list there. If it's a sapient organism, it's even farther down the list since it can at least be reasoned with.

So, unlike the first assumption, this one seems to be going on the basis that you're writing in a vacuum. That makes sense with what you say below, but the part that doesn't is that the first assumption isn't based you writing in a vacuum.

I don't know how I am going to RP it yet, since I am just working on the idea. Unlike a lot of RPers here, I actually enjoy figuring out the mechanics of a nation more than RPing.

I guess that's your call, but this really is more for people intending to RP, not just people who want help with random ideas that have nothing to do with RPing. So, if I continue to discuss, it will still be from the perspective that you will eventually RP.

[Genomita]

I'm currently in a bit of a dilemma and I was hoping you might help me with the decision. You see, up until now my nation's technology has established as completely organic, including the ships, weapons and even the clothing. However, I've always tried to keep my organic technology plausible, there are just some things you can't really do with biotech without going far to the soft side of the sci fi hardness scale, so I was thinking about wether or not the Genomitans should integrate some variety of what we might consider "conventional tech" into their own.

IMHO 40k is pretty soft when it comes to science, but they also explain nearly everything with technobabble or the ilk to keep it distinct form the science fantasy type stuff like Star Wars. I like this system because it allows creativity but also keeps me grounded. Query: Do you want to be able to explain everything or believe everything, if that makes sense.

It would still be largely organic and they wouldn't replace anything vital (no artificial organs or limbs, for example), but they might look for ways to harmonically integrate sensors, additional armor or nanotechnology into their biotech, blending the two in such a that it might be difficult to tell one from the other.

Just an idea, if you want to maintain consistency with the whole organic theme, why not have manufactured organs that accomplish these tasks? Like have organs that can smell/feel/"sense" for sensors, armor that "grows" similar to hair or a shell, and "programmable" cells to create a type of nanotechnology?

This would present a number of interesting roleplaying advantages and disadvantages:

+Adding some amout of conventional tech, even in small amounts might add some plausibility to their brand of biotech,
+Since purely organic technology is often associated with things like hordes of alien locusts or malevolent hive minds, some amount of CT might take away from the "alien-ness" at first encounter. Since my nation is rather diplomatic, getting a chance to explain yourself before the natives open fire at you because they mistook you for the zerg would certainly be preferable.
+Adding to the point above, making their tech less alien to members of other groups would both allow for easier integration of immigrants (the 'noms are always happy to accept the willing) AND help my people find their way around on habitats created by other species without looking like idiots(What do you mean "what's a button?").
+As somebody pointed out to me, purely organic ships are highly unlikely to survive in combat against CT ships, no matter how well adapted they may be. Some added CT technology (additional armor plating that, while it cannot be regrown can be repaired later, perhaps even with materials salvaged from enemy ships, sensors, ship shields of some kind, things like that). They won't suddenly have onboard FTL, but they might learn a few new tricks to even the odds.

-Adding CT would increase the reliance on conventional materials as well, most of which are usually gained by mining or other environmentally harmful means. Since my people are really big on protecting the environment and living in symbiosis with their surroundings that would mean a greater reliance on trade with other nations (though that might also add some plausibility and provide roleplaying opportunities).

You summed up the pros and cons pretty well, but a few comments. You're ships may be stronger with CT, but technobabble can be a good shield if you're worried about that. Looking at the human body, blood cells clot gaps pretty quickly, why not apply that to your ships in some way? A CT ship may be stronger but can't heal itself over time like a bio-ship can. And until machines can self-repair as well as us the robots won't take over.

Lastly, I think you're negative is a positive. Sure, you may not be able to gather the resources yourself but it gives your nation much more personality. Guns vs. butter crises are common in my nation, but it gives them a sense of resourcefulness and more personality. If you go with CT, covet the minerals and open up agreements with other nations centered on simple resource gathering. Heck, it would make a great enclave/outpost in Liu Xiu.

I'm sure there are others, but I'd love to hear your input as well. The main point is that my tech will still be largely organic, but with some CT integrated in harmonic ways. I think both the harmony affinity from Civ: beyond earth and the Tohaa from the Infinity tabletop game might be good sources of inspiration here, though I think both sides came from the other side of things (that is, starting with CT and adapting organic technology over time). I'd also appreciate other sources of inspiration to look into ^^

You get a cookie for mentioning Civ:BE. I was going to bring it up but saw you know it well enough. The online Civilopedia is an excellent source of inspiration in my experience. A Other inspiration is the Yuuzhan Vong in Star Wars and the Tyranids from 40k. I think the latter may be a bit horde-y for your taste, but still something to look into.

Additionally, maybe search "Flood infested ships" for good CT/bio ship combinations. Though not much exists on it, Starbound's highly aggressive Florans may help you too. If you still aren't done reading, you should consider checking out the Tropes page on insectoid aliens.

Hope this helped.

Speaking of 40k, the original idea for my nation was that the genomitans came from a genetor world of the AdMech that was tasked with studying the tyranids, but were declared heretics when they were rediscovered after a long period of isolation caused by a warp storm. During that isolation they had begun to move away from the dogma preached by the AdMech to further their research and had begun to implement what they learned, though they gave the implants they developed their own twist and made sure not to make themselves susceptible to the hive mind. So yeah, the tyranids were a major source of inspiration for my love of biotech, but I've kinda moved away from them since then, in part because my nation is not at all the warlike type, like many of the ones you mentioned seem to be.

As for the manufactured organs serving specific purposes, they have those, though there is only so much you can do with even advanced biotech without going into handwavium territory, and I'd like to keep that to a minimum. I might not be able to explain everything, but it should still be believable, which is why the Genomitans wouldn't use CT as replacement for things such as sensory organs or other vital parts but in addition to them, both to minimize the chance of technological errors and to retain a certain harmonic balance, if that makes sense. It's less about retconning things so that they always used a mix of organotech and CT but rather the Genomitans realizing the current limits of what they can do with their usual approach, and looking for ways to change that without going overboard.

And yeah, the civilopedia was a good source of inspiration. Materials like bioglass and the like seem like a good addition to what the Genomitans already have. I'm hesitant to incorporate material from the Yuuzhan Vong because I seem to recall that many people considered them overpowered. They also seem rather warlike. The flood ship is just a CT ship infected by organotech, so not really what I'm looking for.

Lastly, many thanks for that link to Starbound. I'll definetly have to check that game out when i got the money to spare.

[The V O I D]

Technically, if it were an exact copy of the Blacklight Virus, unless your species is also an adaptable organism which assimilates everything in sight, especially if an infected were say an Evolved, that is not entirely true. All one would need to do is say, have a weaponized/controlled Evolved soldier consume one of your people via deconstructing their DNA to the cellular level, eat said DNA and reconstruct it as useful as it can be. Then this Evolved just gets fed to the native Runner (specialized Evolved that can also generate new viral strains), and then cook up a strain that effects them.

Though, that's where we dabble into the lines of being somewhat OP, hence WMD designation. Evolved/Runners are somewhat like walking-WMDs if the 'victims' don't have proper weaponry. Considering an Evolved can reform from a puddle of biomass after being nuked using only a crow, that's also kind of OP in itself.

But if it's not an exact copy, there might be some differences that would allow for certain species to be immune. Still, would be interesting...

Except that isn't how RP works. In this case, it wouldn't be a matter of "overpowered" but of godmodding to automatically decide that even an exact copy couldn't be completely wiped out (or just not active) with physiologies of the people you're playing with. A virus is a virus, so even if you have a strain created as you described that could affect an alien species, that doesn't mean their immune systems can't still dominate it, especially with the aid of contemporary medicine. And that's without going into this assumption that one of these soldiers could consume one of them (one, you have to get a corpse somehow; two, you have to be physiologically capable of consuming them... and that part is where you are likely getting wanky by assuming these soldiers can eat anything without any harmful effects up to and including death).

So, still not OP - unless you're trying to force the issue, which is again not a problem with "overpoweredness", but with you the player being uncooperative and potentially godmodding to enforce your way of doing things.

If your definition of "exact copy" is "does exactly what the canon label says regardless of other RPers" then it's not appropriate for cooperative RPing in any case and has no place here.

I think I'm repeating myself, so I'll stop now.

Edit: Not quite! Re. Evolved/Runners - after the first time that happened, I think most people would just start disintegrating them completely or come up with a viable Evolved-specific countermeasure. Again, something to discuss with an RP partner. You can't really say "no, you can't combat them effectively because that's how it is."

Unfortunately, this is where I must bring some Prototype wiki information into this. It's going to be a long post, so.

"After infection, the virus "plugs in" and activates the 'junk' DNA in its victim, resulting in several biological changes that create (and recreate) sentience within the infected creature's cellular makeup. It acts by affecting the protein encoding regions of the promoter introns in each cell. As a retrovirus, it contains both RNA and the reverse transcriptase enzyme, allowing it to insert its own genetic codes into the host's cells. It enters, re-purposes and changes the cell, replicating previously dormant non-coding segments of the organism's DNA.

BLACKLIGHT-VIRUS-1-
A Blacklight bacterial organism entering a host's cells.
More often than not, these changes are too drastic and 99.99% of all infected organisms die from massive organ failure and cell saturation. However, few variants have yielded other beneficial results, endowing the infected organisms with incredible superhuman genetic prowess that greatly increase their natural abilities to levels far exceeding human capability; these variants include DX-1120 and DX-1118 C.

INFECTION
The virus is highly contagious and can infect organisms through a multitude of means:

Physical Contact: If a non-infected person is bitten or scratched by an Infected person, or a Hunter, the virus can spread directly to the victim resulting in their infection.
Exposure: Coming into contact with an Infected Water Tower, or a Hive can result in the infectious agents spreading to nearby humans.
Bodily Fluid Contact: Infectious bodily fluids and materials are capable of infection through open wounds.
Injection: As demonstrated by the Project D-Code soldiers, the virus can be spread through direct application via injection.
VARIANTS
BLACKLIGHT (DX-1118 C)

A group of scientists led by Dr. Alex Mercer managed to synthesize a new virus strain which they named 'Blacklight'. They were trying to use it to cure global diseases such as cancer (unbeknowest of the real goal, to engineer a new version of the Redlight virus that could copy and combine genetic traits to re-write living creatures).[3] The scientists soon became suspicious, noting that a large portion of virus variants had deadly effects on the test animals.

The Blacklight virus' effects are variable and far more infectious than the Redlight strain. The Blacklight virus outbreak does not follow the pattern of the Hope outbreak: it causes too many infections, spreads over too wide an area, and leaves very few 'clean' entities. The mortality rate of the Blacklight virus is lower than that of the Redlight virus, and the incubation period of it is much longer. The full capabilities of the Blacklight virus were unknown, even to the scientists who synthesized it.

DX-1120
One hundred and sixty-one soldiers were injected with this variant in Project D-Code. This variant caused no deaths or side effects. The virus' replication and re-growth within the organism was completed in less than two days. The subjects showed dramatic increases in metabolic rate, strength, and reaction times. This variant was only 3 weeks old and was responsible for creating the Super Soldiers: agile, strong, and formidable foes to the Blacklight beings."

"Although Runners can be classified as a variant of the Infected, they differ from the walkers. A Runner's physical features and intelligence are not affected when they are infected with a viral strand, similar to a Prototype.

However, little is known about the exact behavior of Runners. They seem have a certain innate ability to control the infected individuals to a certain extent. Their physique is drastically enhanced to physically overpower a Prototype.

Also, according to a Web of Intrigue node, all Runners are female. Genetic differences between genders probably impede males from developing Runner traits and mutations."

"The Evolved were virally enhanced individuals created by Alex Mercer for the purpose of infiltrating and destroying Blackwatch and Gentek and to further his plans to spread the Blacklight virus to mankind. They mainly utilize a pair of Blades of two distinct shapes as a means of attacking, which are supplemented by powers that vary between each Evolved. Among the abilities unique to each evolved are twin Whipfists, the ability to produce biobombs, tracking others of their kind, being untrackable, Consuming individuals and summoning Brawler Hunters or a flock of Flyers.

Alex tasks his Evolved agents with infiltrating Blackwatch and Gentek, as part of his master plot to spread the tainted Whitelight compound, originally meant as an inoculation against his own virus, thus transforming anyone inoculated with Whitelight into an Evolved under Mercer's control."

"BLADE
The Blade is a powerful and deadly cutting and thrusting weapon, perfect for slicing and swiping through even the toughest armored vehicles or infected hives. This attack Power allows access to the second most powerful strikes available.

CLAWS
Claws are the most prominent anti-personnel ability. Biomass is shifted into 4-digited, talon-like appendages that can be used to shred flesh and bone, cutting both the infected and military in half with a single sweep in some cases.

HAMMERFIST
Hammerfists are primarily an anti-vehicle power. By shifting large amounts of biomass towards the hands, large hammer-like weapons are formed that are excellent for crushing both vehicles and infantry.

Unfortunately, Hammerfists are slow and inaccurate but allow the Player to deal the Greatest Damage in the whole/all of the games available to the Player, in the universe of Prototype and Prototype 2 .

MUSCLEMASS
Musclemass acts as a strength augmentation to Alex Mercer's arms. It greatly increases close combat damage and the distance debris can be thrown to deal with distant enemies.

WHIPFIST
The Whipfist is a thin, flexible, blade-edged arm that can be used to attack at extreme range, or whip through entire crowds of enemies. Tame your foes from a safe distance.

TENDRILS
The Tendrils power is an ability evolved by James Heller that allowed him to grapple enemies with the viral biomass. Upgraded, this ability acts as a devastator.

DEVASTATORS
Devastators are powerful area attacks that utilize the critical mass, in order to inflict damage upon multiple targets. Most of the devastators are evolution of a few offensive powers

ARMOR
The Armor consists black plates of hardened biomass; formed all around the body. While in this form, Alex Mercer was equivalent to a humanoid tank. This ability increases damage resistance overall, at the cost of movement and the ability to parkour.

SHIELD
The Shield power is incredibly useful defense ability. It soaks up damage automatically until it shatters and regenerates automatically. However it's regen rate depends upon the health upgrades available. The Shield can be left activated permanently but will disable the ability to perform parkour.

Alex Mercer was capable of channeling his biomass only to his left arm, however James Heller can shift his biomass to both of his arms creating dual shields.

James Heller has the unique ability of being able to deflect rockets and other projectiles back at the enemy that fired it using dual shields. They are also indestructible. He can perform this move either in midair or on the ground. Unlike Mercer however, Heller can't move while his shield is activated. Despite the large gap between Heller's two shields, he is able to completely block attacks from all directions. The Hydra is one of the few enemies that can damage Heller while his shields are up.

Biobomb is an organic explosive, implanted under the skin of the victim. After a brief period of time, tentacles force themselves from the infected subject, at a high velocity, similar to the tendril barrage devastator. These tendrils pull anything they touch in towards their epicenter, this being the person originally implanted with the Biobomb, the effect being similar to the black hole attack of the Tendrils. The Biobomb will always kill its host except if the host is an evolved like James Heller. It will deal heavy damage to those who either being pulled by tendrils, or unlucky enough to be near its explosion center."

Read those spoilers. They're the reason Evolved/Runners in and of themselves are WMDs, and why Blacklight as a whole, if used as a FT Bio-WMD would be somewhat OP, methinks, and thus I wouldn't use it, unless as a last-resort WMD. Also, this is how consuming works, below.

"OVERVIEW
Consuming is the Prototype's primary means of restoring lost health, as their health only regenerates to a certain point. Most enemies, as long as they are at or near human-sized, can be consumed for health. The amount of health restored is dependent on the size and type of enemy being consumed. Human-sized enemies can be consumed instantly, while larger ones such as Hunters must be weakened before they can be consumed. Certain enemies are immune to being consumed, such as the excessively large Hydras and armored super soldiers.

When consuming a living, non-infected, human, the Prototypes can take on their form, allowing them to disguise themselves as that person. They gain the consumed individual's appearance and can imitate their voice at will. This allows them to quickly switch between their default form and the form of another to evade the military or move about as one of them. However while they can use a person's form after consuming a different one later they rarely do so; such as when James Heller repeatedly used Clint Riley's form to get information from Colonel Rooks despite consuming others in that time. In addition to absorbing biomass and physical attributes, Alex and James can absorb the memories and skills of the people they consume. These memories helped Alex to figure out who he is, what the military is planning, and the truth about a past viral outbreak in Hope, Idaho. Similarly, the memories of individuals James consumed helped him uncover the hidden agendas of both Mercer and Blackwatch. It also gave both Prototypes the ability to use all manner of weapons and vehicles.

Using consume is the only way Alex and James can get into military bases, obtain memories, and gain access to new codes to order artillery strikes in the case of Alex.

CONSUME TYPES
The consume types vary from each individual power currently activated by the Prototypes. With each power activated, the style of consuming and the biomass gained varies despite the size of the victim.

In Prototype, hijacking or stealth hijacking a consume target's vehicle will automatically consume the target.

In Prototype 2, James Heller is invincible when consuming, and can be used as a tactic to avoid damage.

STRAIGHT CONSUME
Performed on large but already weakened enemies, such as Super soldiers (Prototype 2 only) and any infected other than Walkers. A symbol of use key will appear above the targets' head when they are weakened enough, tapping the use key to grab them will enter the consuming move, which Prototype quickly and brutally kill the victim and consume them. In Prototype 2, performing this consume near any military unit will enter the alert instantly.

In Prototype 2, the consuming action will differ by the active weapon.

When grabbing a military personnel who is the mission objective for consuming, players may also perform consume directly without tapping the consume key.

GRAB AND CONSUME
Performed on human-sized enemies, players first grab the victim with the use key, then tap the consume key to quickly do a fatal attack on the victim and consume them. This is the only way when Patsy, BioBomb, or pushing to disrupt enemy guarding pattern doesn't work, and is often used when wanted to start a fight deliberately or to avoid the trouble of finding a gap for stealth consuming.

The consuming animation will differ by the active weapon. In Prototype 2, James Heller also consumes faster and less brutal, when consuming Marines or Civilians. When consuming personnel with important information or upgrades, Alex or James will throw them on the ground and beat them multiple times.

In Prototype, this will not trigger an alert unless the player grabbed a military personnel near another military personnel; while in Prototype 2, this will trigger alert if any military personnel other than the victim is around.

STEALTH CONSUME
Stealth Consume, as the name suggests, allows Alex and James to consume a target without alerting others. It can only be performed when the military cannot see Alex and James and only works on regular humans. When performed, Alex or James will quietly kill their target and absorb them in mere moments, instantly taking on their form. Alex or James will also instantly drop their own weapon if they are holding one, and take the targets' weapon when they are holding one.

Stealth consume can be performed on any uninfected human, if performed on a disguised Evolved, players will be tossed away.

Alex has 2 stealth consume action each before and after upgrading, while James has 1 consume action from the front and 2 from the back.

Upgraded stealth consuming is more like performing stealth kill in combat, James Heller can perform this stealth consume without upgrading from normal ones, due to his military background. Unlike Alex Mercer, James Heller can consume targets even in front of them, as long as himself and the victim are not in other military personal's view, this can be checked by using viral sonar or doing a fail attempt. This usually require player to stay out of cautions mode as they will be constantly watched when military is in cautious. Take extra caution when attempting to stealth consume a human while near walkers or throwable objects as accidentally grabbing them will trigger an alert instantly."

For the tl;dr version, basically, the Virus takes every last bit of your DNA, even 'junk DNA', and makes it able to be used in any way the semi-sentient virus wants. Not to mention, Evolved/Runners are essentially able to manipulate the virus that infected them/changed them to some degree, as well as being in control of many of the infected they create. Add on the fact that Heller tanked a near-incineration and Mercer tanked a nuke, and reformed from a crow. This essentially renders Evolved/Runners immortal of anything short of destroying every single last cell. That's kind of hard to do, since one cell can survive and one might not notice. Add the fact that the ability to consume renders Evolved/Runners nigh-undetectable without a Blacklight detecting device, that means they can be anyone.

Now, I'm not saying I'd ever use this, far from it. I am just showing how Blacklight should only be used as a WMD, Evolved/Runners themselves are WMDs, and how it might be considered OP if you use it directly with no 'turning down'.

[The United Dominion]

SNIP

Now, I'm not saying I'd ever use this, far from it. I am just showing how Blacklight should only be used as a WMD, Evolved/Runners themselves are WMDs, and how it might be considered OP if you use it directly with no 'turning down'.

None of that was particularly relevant, as you're missing the point.

It is not "overpowered." It is just very open to godmodding - but so is something even as basic as FTL. You expecting to be able to affect anything and everything the way its does in the game is a problem with you as an RPer, not with it as a concept. Remember, simply put, you do not get to decide how powerfully something affects other players' stuff without their input.

Though, honestly, it's pretty generic SCIFIHORROR in its canon state. That is the reason you might want to not use it. Because it's lame. Not because it's overpowered.

[The V O I D]

SNIP

Now, I'm not saying I'd ever use this, far from it. I am just showing how Blacklight should only be used as a WMD, Evolved/Runners themselves are WMDs, and how it might be considered OP if you use it directly with no 'turning down'.

None of that was particularly relevant, as you're missing the point.

It is not "overpowered." It is just very open to godmodding - but so is something even as basic as FTL. You expecting to be able to affect anything and everything the way its does in the game is a problem with you as an RPer, not with it as a concept. Remember, simply put, you do not get to decide how powerfully something affects other players' stuff without their input.

Though, honestly, it's pretty generic SCIFIHORROR in its canon state. That is the reason you might want to not use it. Because it's lame. Not because it's overpowered.

I tend to follow the 'if you're gonna base something on something, might as well actually use that thing'. And, I understand that in an RP it isn't OK to use 'full power' like in the game, but I also feel like it's not OK to say it can just 'do nothing', especially with a WMD classification.

[The United Dominion]

None of that was particularly relevant, as you're missing the point.

It is not "overpowered." It is just very open to godmodding - but so is something even as basic as FTL. You expecting to be able to affect anything and everything the way its does in the game is a problem with you as an RPer, not with it as a concept. Remember, simply put, you do not get to decide how powerfully something affects other players' stuff without their input.

Though, honestly, it's pretty generic SCIFIHORROR in its canon state. That is the reason you might want to not use it. Because it's lame. Not because it's overpowered.

I tend to follow the 'if you're gonna base something on something, might as well actually use that thing'. And, I understand that in an RP it isn't OK to use 'full power' like in the game, but I also feel like it's not OK to say it can just 'do nothing', especially with a WMD classification.

And I tend to follow the "creativity" school of thought, so there we differ irreconcilably.

You're the one calling it a WMD. Following your logic, I could just declare all ixee "WMD classified" and then you have to let me do whatever I want.

[The V O I D]

I tend to follow the 'if you're gonna base something on something, might as well actually use that thing'. And, I understand that in an RP it isn't OK to use 'full power' like in the game, but I also feel like it's not OK to say it can just 'do nothing', especially with a WMD classification.

And I tend to follow the "creativity" school of thought, so there we differ irreconcilably.

You're the one calling it a WMD. Following your logic, I could just declare all ixee "WMD classified" and then you have to let me do whatever I want.

Well, no. That's not what I said. I said that, due to the potential and destructive capability, and as shown in my other post with what it and it's 'creations' can do, it is essentially a WMD, considering it destroyed NYC not once, but twice in game; that's a very large city. Also, following my logic, anything that is actually capable of huge destruction or potential destruction of a massive amount should be classified as a WMD. You know, because weapon of mass destruction?

[G-Tech Corporation]

And I tend to follow the "creativity" school of thought, so there we differ irreconcilably.

You're the one calling it a WMD. Following your logic, I could just declare all ixee "WMD classified" and then you have to let me do whatever I want.

Well, no. That's not what I said. I said that, due to the potential and destructive capability, and as shown in my other post with what it and it's 'creations' can do, it is essentially a WMD, considering it destroyed NYC not once, but twice in game; that's a very large city. Also, following my logic, anything that is actually capable of huge destruction or potential destruction of a massive amount should be classified as a WMD. You know, because weapon of mass destruction?

I'm not sure you followed UD's point- just because something has theoretical power does not mean it has objective power. A lot of weapons that get swung around in FT have energy yields in the kiloton+ range, simply by virtue of being a bit of metal flying quickly.

So, just because that weapon destroyed NYC doesn't mean you shouldn't consult with your mates when deploying it. For all you know they have some sort of magic handwavey Gellar field that can soak weapons capable of destroying urban centers, and your "WMD" is just another armament. Talk about it. That's the crux of the issue.

[Vocenae]

Hello, Vaxon.

Above all else, you need to realize that at the end of the day, whatever weapon you have will only be as powerful as your RP partner allows it to be. For a reminder of what makes for a good RP, please see the OP of this thread, specifically the section of "Rules of FT". It is here you'll find the C4, which are as follows:

Creativity, Consistency, Collaboration, and Compromise.