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by Thrashia » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:15 am
by Oppressorion » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:46 am
by The Fedral Union » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:47 am
Thrashia wrote:From what I've been able to deduce from the last ten years here...I've been one of a handful of steadily consistent players who maintains a logistics paradigm in regards to all military operations that my nation has ever undertaken. There are others, but most people tend to look down upon it as nothing more than book keeping. That couldn't be farther from the truth however.
by Thrashia » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:57 am
by Feazanthia » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:53 am
by The Fedral Union » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:56 am
Feazanthia wrote:With geothermal power stations and hydroponics technology, a system of underground farms could feed a planetary population easily without easily exposing itself to orbital fire.
by Feazanthia » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:01 am
by Imperial Nalydya » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:06 am
The Fedral Union wrote:Feazanthia wrote:With geothermal power stations and hydroponics technology, a system of underground farms could feed a planetary population easily without easily exposing itself to orbital fire.
Well the question is, how many people actually design their infrastructure that way in FT.. Alot of worlds and home planets aren't exactly virgin (insofar as having not been occupied for a while ). Now there are good compelling arguments why one might do so with existing planets but, is that a common design feature? (Though me living in NYC... I can see how an underground city of sorts could be managed)
by The Fedral Union » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:14 am
Feazanthia wrote:It is my belief that, sooner or later, we are going to have to shift to hydroponics to produce most of our food anyway. It's more cost-effective (when applied in large-scale), it produces a higher yield of better quality, and it is far more space-efficient. The one thing really holding it back right now is the problem of bacterial growth in the hydroponics tubes, a problem which can be solved with greater precision in manufacturing and advances in materials science - things which are essentially guarantees in any futuristic setting (also there's considerable political pressure to maintain the status quo in the farming industry but presumably that issue will be solved as well, technological advances have ALWAYS trumped luddite political ideology in the long run).
Additionally, I think we'll eventually shift to lab-grown meat in addition to hydroponic produce, for many of the same reasons.
by Feazanthia » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:30 am
by Senkaku » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:34 am
Feazanthia wrote:With geothermal power stations and hydroponics technology, a system of underground farms could feed a planetary population easily without easily exposing itself to orbital fire.
by Feazanthia » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:40 am
Senkaku wrote:Feazanthia wrote:With geothermal power stations and hydroponics technology, a system of underground farms could feed a planetary population easily without easily exposing itself to orbital fire.
I tend to see it the opposite way. Even a planet riddled with tunnels and reinforced bunkers and geothermal plants and hydroponic tunnels couldn't stand for long if the besieging ships remained in orbit uncontested. It wouldn't be a question of whether or not the food and power supplies were sufficient, but kinetic bombardment from orbit could easily crack open anything built in the crust and even, to some extent, in the upper mantle. You just drop dead ships or NEOs, causing shockwaves and earthquakes and magma movement, and the tunnels and such will collapse or get blown open.
by The Fedral Union » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:50 am
Feazanthia wrote:The question isn't "How often are your planets bombarded", it's "How afraid are your people of BEING bombarded?"
Consider this. Human beings are, by and large, logical creatures up until the point where they feel threatened. Then, biology takes over and flight-or-fight responses are triggered. In my country (the United States) for example, the odds of being killed by or even witnessing an attack by Islamic extremists is roughly on-par with the odds of being struck by lightning while being attacked by a shark while holding the winning Mega Millions ticket. Yet, we as a culture have dedicated an incredible amount of time, thought, and resources to the purposes of safeguarding ourselves against such attacks.
If we've proven one thing in the last RL decade, it's that the galaxy is a very dangerous place. We've had countless wars, several galaxy-threatening eldritch horrors, interstellar plagues, pirates, galaxy-spanning cold wars, and once or twice we've even had at least one empire be completely and instantly obliterated for no apparent reason whatsoever. Assuming there is some sort of interstellar, international information network available (which there almost undoubtedly would be), an educated and informed individual will know about these things. And, I believe, he'd be a little bit frightened by them, especially when 9 out of 10 empires in NSFT tend to be belligerent and expansionist.
by Imperial Nalydya » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:57 am
Feazanthia wrote:If we've proven one thing in the last RL decade, it's that the galaxy is a very dangerous place. We've had countless wars, several galaxy-threatening eldritch horrors, interstellar plagues, pirates, galaxy-spanning cold wars, and once or twice we've even had at least one empire be completely and instantly obliterated for no apparent reason whatsoever. Assuming there is some sort of interstellar, international information network available (which there almost undoubtedly would be), an educated and informed individual will know about these things. And, I believe, he'd be a little bit frightened by them, especially when 9 out of 10 empires in NSFT tend to be belligerent and expansionist.
by Vocenae » Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:57 am
As the new century begins...we may be ready to settle down before we wreck the planet. It is time to sort out Earth and calculate what it will take to provide a satisfying and sustainable life for everyone into the indefinite future...For every person in the world to reach present U.S. levels of consumption would require [The resources of] four more planet Earths.
18:34 <Kyrusia> Voc: The one anchor of moral conscience in a sea of turbulent depravity.
by The Fedral Union » Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:07 pm
Vocenae wrote:I'm very busy today and cannot make a larger post on this subject, but I thought I might leave this quote here, at least in response to the 'feeding your planetary population' discussion.As the new century begins...we may be ready to settle down before we wreck the planet. It is time to sort out Earth and calculate what it will take to provide a satisfying and sustainable life for everyone into the indefinite future...For every person in the world to reach present U.S. levels of consumption would require [The resources of] four more planet Earths.
-Edward O. Wilson.
I suppose what he said about settling down isn't all that true, given the conflicts currently taking place on the planet, but what he says about consumption is definitely something to take into account. Planet Earth is simply overtaxed by a civilization that cannot realize that it is killing the planet by it's own greed and relentless population expansion. We're overtaxing our planet's ability to produce food on such a massive level, and this is largely just for a handful of nations on it. This is why Agriculture Worlds are a thing in Science Fiction, because so many people want to play with these massive populations and have transformed their homeworld into a ecumenopolis that have no way of supporting themselves outside of entire worlds dedicated to producing foodstuffs (not to mention the fact that you'd need incredible amounts of technology just to keep such a planet from overheating by it's own excess heat output).
Even in FT, with all of our fantastic technologies, one would be hard pressed to simply handwave away the needs of such massive populations (most of which are always centered on planets that are exactly the same size of Earth because most people don't go into massive detail designing their planets). That is why, as I mentioned a few pages ago concerning planetary populations, that I try to stick with my Gameplay population numbers now. It just allows me the ability to portray a planet that isn't groaning and straining to stay alive under the crush of civilization.
As for 'designing a planet for war', I have to side with the arguement that unless you are locked in such an apocalyptic conflict that building war-proof cities is all your culture can do then otherwise it's a bit of Meta-Gaming. Especially given how wars in FT rarely ever reach the 'apocalypse' level of conflict, since most FT players realize there's no real purpose in putting forth the massive effort required to take a world if you're just going to reduce it to ashes.
by SquareDisc City » Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:04 pm
by The Fedral Union » Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:33 pm
SquareDisc City wrote:The V O I D
As it stands, your idea is interesting but your scale is a bit wonky. You've mentioned some of the void's superpowers, if you want to RP any of them in regular NSFT you'll have to downsize. Alternatively, have the superpowers as backstory and primarily RP as one of the void's smaller powers, maybe one with an unusual interest in the "normal" world.
I advise not using the portal variant that moves whole stars around. You're probably best sticking to a few "fixed" portals to start with; a gateway that's always open to all in both directions will assuage fears of you abusing the void and its portals. Of course if a portal popping up or closing down makes a good plot element then go for it.
by Senkaku » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:19 pm
Feazanthia wrote:Senkaku wrote:I tend to see it the opposite way. Even a planet riddled with tunnels and reinforced bunkers and geothermal plants and hydroponic tunnels couldn't stand for long if the besieging ships remained in orbit uncontested. It wouldn't be a question of whether or not the food and power supplies were sufficient, but kinetic bombardment from orbit could easily crack open anything built in the crust and even, to some extent, in the upper mantle. You just drop dead ships or NEOs, causing shockwaves and earthquakes and magma movement, and the tunnels and such will collapse or get blown open.
See, to me the question would be less "can I attack them" (the answer is unequivocally yes, once you cede orbital superiority the chances of successfully resisting a dedicated opponent drop dramatically), and more "can I see them?"
Now obviously that's a question of how powerful your ground-penetrating radar is vs how advanced the target's passive countermeasures are, but regardless an underground power station or hydroponics bay is going to be much less conspicuous than an above-ground one.
Imperial Nalydya wrote:Feazanthia wrote:If we've proven one thing in the last RL decade, it's that the galaxy is a very dangerous place. We've had countless wars, several galaxy-threatening eldritch horrors, interstellar plagues, pirates, galaxy-spanning cold wars, and once or twice we've even had at least one empire be completely and instantly obliterated for no apparent reason whatsoever. Assuming there is some sort of interstellar, international information network available (which there almost undoubtedly would be), an educated and informed individual will know about these things. And, I believe, he'd be a little bit frightened by them, especially when 9 out of 10 empires in NSFT tend to be belligerent and expansionist.
Well, I guess that depends just on how your nation would react to such threats... Species, experiences, etc, as revamping one's planetary infrastructure is but one part of what can be done. To use Nalydya as an example - as Senkaku pointed out, it isn't terribly difficult to destroy underground complexes from orbit. Not too much moreso than surface installations, depending on what the attacker is using and what defenses there are. Because of this, most of the Nalydian reaction to such fears, if you call them that, is to invest more in their offensive arm and active defenses - fleets, stations, etc.
by The Fedral Union » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:24 pm
Senkaku wrote:Feazanthia wrote:
See, to me the question would be less "can I attack them" (the answer is unequivocally yes, once you cede orbital superiority the chances of successfully resisting a dedicated opponent drop dramatically), and more "can I see them?"
Now obviously that's a question of how powerful your ground-penetrating radar is vs how advanced the target's passive countermeasures are, but regardless an underground power station or hydroponics bay is going to be much less conspicuous than an above-ground one.
Don't have to see them, depending on how large the object you're dropping is. If the shockwave is powerful enough, it'll cause an earthquake that'll crush everything around it, or most things, anyways. Or if you only have limited data, it might just liquefy the target box and destroy a little extra to make sure you hit what you were aiming for.Imperial Nalydya wrote:
Well, I guess that depends just on how your nation would react to such threats... Species, experiences, etc, as revamping one's planetary infrastructure is but one part of what can be done. To use Nalydya as an example - as Senkaku pointed out, it isn't terribly difficult to destroy underground complexes from orbit. Not too much moreso than surface installations, depending on what the attacker is using and what defenses there are. Because of this, most of the Nalydian reaction to such fears, if you call them that, is to invest more in their offensive arm and active defenses - fleets, stations, etc.
That's probably the wiser strategic move. Even if you build something at the planet's very core, someone could, if they had sufficient motivation (as they might, if the planet was important enough to warrant such fortifications), deorbit a small moon or fire an RKV at it and destroy everything regardless of its fortification.
The instant you lose orbital superiority, it doesn't really matter how well-fortified the planet is, when the enemy can just drop things on you at their leisure. But if you have defenses that can make it hard for them to drop things safely even once they've killed all your ships, then you can at least make life difficult for them.
Or maybe even make it so they don't kill all your ships.
by Vocenae » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:19 am
18:34 <Kyrusia> Voc: The one anchor of moral conscience in a sea of turbulent depravity.
by The Fedral Union » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:50 am
by Feazanthia » Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:40 am
The Fedral Union wrote:I don't think its inherently the issue of getting nations to work together.. I mean GESO does a good job of that. But its more sense of scale, and ooc desires/plot. Since the verse is big... well yeah we're not omnipotent; and just because a nation has seen it in past doesn't mean the subscribe to allowing it to happen.
But you're right, there is no intergalactic police; however I'm not sure what you mean by out dated alliance system?
While its unlikely we'd ever start butting in to things just to butt in with sense of scale and all, GESO certainly has the will, the means and the ability to (if the other players agree) stare folks down about it. icly its not hard at all to get people working together if you play politics the right way. And besides, people may enjoy the specter of political maneuvering and gaming oocly with an international body such as GESO... it adds more depth.
by The Fedral Union » Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:43 am
Feazanthia wrote:The Fedral Union wrote:I don't think its inherently the issue of getting nations to work together.. I mean GESO does a good job of that. But its more sense of scale, and ooc desires/plot. Since the verse is big... well yeah we're not omnipotent; and just because a nation has seen it in past doesn't mean the subscribe to allowing it to happen.
But you're right, there is no intergalactic police; however I'm not sure what you mean by out dated alliance system?
While its unlikely we'd ever start butting in to things just to butt in with sense of scale and all, GESO certainly has the will, the means and the ability to (if the other players agree) stare folks down about it. icly its not hard at all to get people working together if you play politics the right way. And besides, people may enjoy the specter of political maneuvering and gaming oocly with an international body such as GESO... it adds more depth.
By the by, continually namedropping your alliance every few posts as a way of "oh by the way JOIN MY GUILD" is off-topic, irritating others, and should probably stop. Just my two cents.
by Imperial Nalydya » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:23 am
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