FAR II [FT Galaxy/Community][Open to Applications]

[Transoxthraxia]

Why do I love this nickname?

It rhymes.

Thanks. I'll be seeing you all.

[Nyte]

So, I've just trolled through like the last 13 pages of this to find several of the things I was concerned about and why. I've highlighted them below...

Even in a globular cluster with hundreds of thousands of stars an Empire could be huge, covering at least a thousand stars on average.

What I had in mind was a scenario where we did not need to do a dozen first contact threads, I mean - how many more of those do we need?

We've been thinking we start with everybody knowing each other, and being part of a galactic republic with HRE-levels of corruption, and the first thread would be mandatory and would either be for or against the preservation of the galactic republic.

My real problem with the above is having to retconn my nations history to include some federation/republic when such a thing was something I never intended for my nation. The fact that you're making it mandatory and forcing it on other people whether they like it or not reminds me of godmodding... But it's even worse because I can't just ignore this godmod like I could in an RP. Why no one else has made a bigger fuss over this I have no idea.

Ah, but the thing here is that not every system has a habitable system according to Fermi's Paradox, meaning that there might only be several dozen or so habitable worlds in the first place of any notable significance. As such, there is a potential limiting factor holding back would-be-hegemonies. I do agree that we should not start with first-contact threads, however.

As for an all-powerful Galactic Republic, this will not jibe well with some of our species' background xenophobia (The Tantalans would not join such an organization in the first place, fearing the destruction of their industrial base and "culture," if holospheres and angular architecture can be considered such. )
The Tantalans would be willing to send a representative as a non-member observer, though.

Xenophobic tendencies or not, everyone will start part of the Republic. (You would have been subjugated by member nations if you liked it or not.) remember, this Republic isn't necessarily a benign or benevolent one. It was expansionistic and aggressive, but now its more stagnant and corrupt than anything.

This just compounds the issue even further. Instead of attempting to work with people who have a problem with this idea because it clashes with what they want their nation to be, you basically ignore the fact that you are trampling over something this person put their time, and effort, and hard work into and continue to force it on them without even attempting to work out something even remotely mutually acceptable to all involved. I'm starting to see a trend here...

Perhaps it could add some tension and conflict to the group if some nations refused to join the republic. I would still join the republic but I mean what if a nation didn't want to for some reason?

All nations at the beginning of the RP will be in the Republic.

I'll admit I actually did miss this originally... Which is why I went and read back over the last 13 pages of posts. The fact that this republic/federation will have collapsed after the intro RP almost makes up for it being forced on everyone in the first place. However, what about those who join this group after that intro RP? They wouldn't have to deal with this being rammed down their throats against their wishes. Again, this is just another reason why the idea upsets me so much.

Ok, I know I don't carry any wait here, but I still want to give a suggestion that I was thinking about. I suggest that their should be some technology that connects every civilization. Whether it's some kind of FTL drive or some super advanced AI, or a weapon of some sort or even something left behind by a precursor race. Whatever it is, whenever a civilization discovers it, it leads to them making first contact.

Also, Toishima I loved you app. Especially the language part. All too often, FT rps fall victim to universal translators.

I've put forward the suggestion that every civilization old and young all use the same FTL drive, perhaps an Alcubierre one. I will submit the details soon.

And now we can't even choose how we go about getting from point A to point B... As if demanding that a nation change it's history to fit in with this federation/republic wasn't bad enough, now we also have to use the exact same drive to go places. You do realize that in an area encompassing an entire galaxy, not every species would choose the exact same type of drive for their FTL travel right? They might not have the resources needed for one type of drive, or they may have missed out on that one technological discovery that made a certain drive possible. Also, you do know that you just chose the most easily weaponized drive that I'm aware of (I recall reading something about the Alcubierre drive having the interesting effect of pretty much frying anything in front of a ship using that drive when it dropped back to sub-light speeds...)

But you know... Even with all of this, I still contemplated just gritting my teeth and taking it. I could have just left the BS about this republic/federation out of my history and rolled with it even though it upset me quite a bit. I was mulling it over as I trolled through all those pages, and then I caught up with my last post before this one and read the LOVELY reply's I got from Caecuser and the slightly less ignorant one from Transoxthraxia which, instead of being reasonable or perhaps taking a little more time to expand on the idea to a point where I likely would have at least been able to tolerate it, or simply TG'd me about my concerns so I wouldn't have had to write this giant spiel explaining my thoughts on all of this the responses I received seemed to be a slightly more polite way of telling me to go f*** myself and leave if I don't like it.

Now, I know that I haven't been a part of FAR II for all that long, but I'd like to think that my concerns deserved a better response than they received, and perhaps I misconstrued the meaning of the response(s) and they weren't meant to be taken the way I took them but the answers I received from Caecuser and Transoxthraxia pretty much decided it for me. As such, I am withdrawing from FAR II. To the rest of you, I wish you good luck and perhaps I'll see you again in other RP's.

[Toishima]

Forgive me for saying so, but the fact that the idea upsets you so much is a bit strange, considering how this is- and will always be- only a game, one which you have the choice to join or not. I agree, however, that some of the replies you received were a bit harsh. Unfortunately, I have little power here and cannot do much to stop it.

Even so, RPs on Nationstates have always been voluntary. If you disagree so much, you can just leave and start your own version.

My real problem with the above is having to retconn my nations history to include some federation/republic when such a thing was something I never intended for my nation. The fact that you're making it mandatory and forcing it on other people whether they like it or not reminds me of godmodding... But it's even worse because I can't just ignore this godmod like I could in an RP. Why no one else has made a bigger fuss over this I have no idea.

Not really- you can just add in a small line or two about how, a few hundred years ago, the Republic attacked and forced your nation to join it. Nothing else changes, and as far as I know, the Republic is going to be more passive than the Star Wars one, with a lot of autonomy. I doubt it can be classified as a godmod, seeing as nobody stands to gain any advantage over anyone else due to this. The reason nobody has made a bigger fuss is probably because it is actually a rather good idea, and eliminates the extremely long and contrived "first-contact" phase of most "free universe" FT RPs, most of which die out during this phase.

This just compounds the issue even further. Instead of attempting to work with people who have a problem with this idea because it clashes with what they want their nation to be, you basically ignore the fact that you are trampling over something this person put their time, and effort, and hard work into and continue to force it on them without even attempting to work out something even remotely mutually acceptable to all involved. I'm starting to see a trend here...

I used to think this way at first. However, this section seems more like it is directed towards Sox. I do have some issues with his confrontational nature, no offense, Sox, but as I said above, not much that you put your time and effort into needs to be changed.

I'll admit I actually did miss this originally... Which is why I went and read back over the last 13 pages of posts. The fact that this republic/federation will have collapsed after the intro RP almost makes up for it being forced on everyone in the first place. However, what about those who join this group after that intro RP? They wouldn't have to deal with this being rammed down their throats against their wishes. Again, this is just another reason why the idea upsets me so much.

I again don't see why this idea would upset you "so much". This is just a game, and nothing is being "rammed down their throats"- if they wish not to play in this RP, they are welcome to find another. I also imagine that the group will be closed before the first RP is posted.

And now we can't even choose how we go about getting from point A to point B... As if demanding that a nation change it's history to fit in with this federation/republic wasn't bad enough, now we also have to use the exact same drive to go places. You do realize that in an area encompassing an entire galaxy, not every species would choose the exact same type of drive for their FTL travel right? They might not have the resources needed for one type of drive, or they may have missed out on that one technological discovery that made a certain drive possible. Also, you do know that you just chose the most easily weaponized drive that I'm aware of (I recall reading something about the Alcubierre drive having the interesting effect of pretty much frying anything in front of a ship using that drive when it dropped back to sub-light speeds...)

You do realise that you missed much of what I was discussing? Your nation is free to create its own FTL drive as well. Mine is using (at the suggestion of Oogium) a primitive Alcubierre drive. However, when you join the Republic, which is mandatory for all players, you get access to the Republican drive, which is the pinnacle of years of development and techniques from different factions. As a result of most large empires being part of the Republic, this Republican Drive will be sort of 'standard'. However, I imagine that this will not even appear in standard RPs at all. It seems more of a OOC and godmod limiting factor than anything.

A lot of your argument glosses over what many people have said regarding the FTL drive, amongst other issues. I imagine you are just angry about how the RP is no longer like how you wish it was like. In that case, please calm down.

EDIT: I missed the last line- As I said, all RPs on NS are voluntary. Nobody is stopping you.

[Nyte]

I'm not actually angry at all... At least not about the RP. I'm more disappointed, and I'll admit offended at the sheer disregard my concerns and opinion as a member of FAR II received and the response I got from Caecuser and Trans didn't help this much. I'm well aware that If I don't like it, I can simply leave; which in the end is what I chose to do. I just wanted to clarify why I was doing so instead of just saying I quit.

As to why it upset me so much is pretty simple. I'm leaving with the feeling that I was forced into doing so because of something that shouldn't have been such a major issue in the first place... I mean, how hard would it have been to have a nation(s) out near the rim of the galaxy that was not a part of this republic? Hell, such a nation(s) could have easily had something to do with the fall of this republic and wouldn't have needed a first contact RP to even explain it's existence.

I wanted to be a part of this group and that included it's next iteration. But demanding that I change my nations history to fit in with someone else's demands crosses a line in my opinion. To me the entire thing just came across as childish and overbearing and the way it was repeatedly delivered didn't really help. I can understand the need for guidelines and rules to keep things going smoothly but to just arbitrarily demand that people change something that they put large amounts of work into is what actually upset me. That, and the fact that they didn't even attempt to find a reasonable solution that didn't involve just ignoring what other people in the group wanted which wouldn't have been all that difficult; especially since I think at least one was actually mentioned several pages back. It was basically except this or GTFO.

As I said, I could have just as easily ignored the change in my nations history and moved on; hell, I'd eventually intended to do just that as I said. The responses I received were simply the proverbial final nail in the coffin.

And also, I didn't miss most of what you were discussing Toishima, I just didn't want to put even more quotes into that post than I already did and that one pretty much gave the general gist of what I was talking about.

[Caecuser]

I'm not actually angry at all... At least not about the RP. I'm more disappointed, and I'll admit offended at the sheer disregard my concerns and opinion as a member of FAR II received and the response I got from Caecuser and Trans didn't help this much. I'm well aware that If I don't like it, I can simply leave; which in the end is what I chose to do. I just wanted to clarify why I was doing so instead of just saying I quit.

As to why it upset me so much is pretty simple. I'm leaving with the feeling that I was forced into doing so because of something that shouldn't have been such a major issue in the first place... I mean, how hard would it have been to have a nation(s) out near the rim of the galaxy that was not a part of this republic? Hell, such a nation(s) could have easily had something to do with the fall of this republic and wouldn't have needed a first contact RP to even explain it's existence.

I wanted to be a part of this group and that included it's next iteration. But demanding that I change my nations history to fit in with someone else's demands crosses a line in my opinion. To me the entire thing just came across as childish and overbearing and the way it was repeatedly delivered didn't really help. I can understand the need for guidelines and rules to keep things going smoothly but to just arbitrarily demand that people change something that they put large amounts of work into is what actually upset me. That, and the fact that they didn't even attempt to find a reasonable solution that didn't involve just ignoring what other people in the group wanted which wouldn't have been all that difficult; especially since I think at least one was actually mentioned several pages back. It was basically except this or GTFO.

As I said, I could have just as easily ignored the change in my nations history and moved on; hell, I'd eventually intended to do just that as I said. The responses I received were simply the proverbial final nail in the coffin.

And also, I didn't miss most of what you were discussing Toishima, I just didn't want to put even more quotes into that post than I already did and that one pretty much gave the general gist of what I was talking about.

These groups like FAR and NEAR are not part of the main NSFT grouping, they have their own settings and rules and having the Federation in the next iteration is part of the setting, that's all.

I mean what would you actually have to change about your nation?

[The Nuclear Fist]

Personally, I don't like the idea of everyone being forced to have the same FTL drive and having to start out as part of the republic. Perhaps small fringe elements remained independent on the edges of the galaxy?

But even that is something I can deal with. It gives my species of pseudo-Hun/Mongols a fun playground reminiscent of the collapse of the Roman Empire to play around in.

[Caecuser]

Personally, I don't like the idea of everyone being forced to have the same FTL drive and having to start out as part of the republic. Perhaps small fringe elements remained independent on the edges of the galaxy?

But even that is something I can deal with. It gives my species of pseudo-Hun/Mongols a fun playground reminiscent of the collapse of the Roman Empire to play around in.

The FTL Drive is what makes one a part of the Federation - and besides that, and a couple of basic sentients right's laws all the member-states are quite independent and autonomous.

[The Nuclear Fist]

The FTL Drive is what makes one a part of the Federation - and besides that, and a couple of basic sentients right's laws all the member-states are quite independent and autonomous.

Just as long as I get to scrap it as soon as the Republic collapses.

[Caecuser]

The FTL Drive is what makes one a part of the Federation - and besides that, and a couple of basic sentients right's laws all the member-states are quite independent and autonomous.

Just as long as I get to scrap it as soon as the Republic collapses.

Scrap what?

If you mean the FTL Drives then you should know that is really the binding force of the Federation (G-Tech suggested that Federation would be a better name for it than Republic) and it also allows for FTL Communication. It also explains why we don't leave this bit of the Galaxy to go to others.

[Toishima]

Just as long as I get to scrap it as soon as the Republic collapses.

Scrap what?

If you mean the FTL Drives then you should know that is really the binding force of the Federation (G-Tech suggested that Federation would be a better name for it than Republic) and it also allows for FTL Communication. It also explains why we don't leave this bit of the Galaxy to go to others.

"Binding force" is not a term I would use, considering how the Federation will most likely be disbanded in the first RP.

In the end, however, I do not see why these debates should go on further. FTL drives are hardly going to be a main topic of discussion in standard RPs, unless you all are physics jocks like this one guy I know on another site. Whatever drive anyone uses shouldn't be a problem, as long as it's not a godmodish one. In my view, the Republican drive exists not only for communications (in my case), but also acts in an OOC capability as a limit to FTL, so that people don't get all FTL-happy and start zipping around the galaxy at bizarre speeds. Of course, this will once again not be seen much in RPs- I mean, who's going to actually calculate and wait in real-time for a fleet to arrive?

IMO we should just wait for the thing to begin before thinking about these things.

I don't feel quite myself today, so I apologise if I come off rather arrogant and brash, or if my ideas and posts make no sense.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Scrap what?

If you mean the FTL Drives then you should know that is really the binding force of the Federation (G-Tech suggested that Federation would be a better name for it than Republic) and it also allows for FTL Communication. It also explains why we don't leave this bit of the Galaxy to go to others.

Still, mandating people use the same FTL drive even after the Republic/Federation collapses just seems a bit pointless.

[Caecuser]

Good post Toishima - can you think of any basic sentient's rights or laws that the Federation should have in place for member-states to have to comply with?

TNF; well I don't expect most people would just rip the FTL drives out of their ships.

[Escalan Corps-Star Island]

Good post Toishima - can you think of any basic sentient's rights or laws that the Federation should have in place for member-states to have to comply with?

TNF; well I don't expect most people would just rip the FTL drives out of their ships.

I don't think installing one will help my one ship very much.

[Caecuser]

Good post Toishima - can you think of any basic sentient's rights or laws that the Federation should have in place for member-states to have to comply with?

TNF; well I don't expect most people would just rip the FTL drives out of their ships.

I don't think installing one will help my one ship very much.

You're going to have a single ship?

[Senkaku]

I'm not actually angry at all... At least not about the RP. I'm more disappointed, and I'll admit offended at the sheer disregard my concerns and opinion as a member of FAR II received and the response I got from Caecuser and Trans didn't help this much. I'm well aware that If I don't like it, I can simply leave; which in the end is what I chose to do. I just wanted to clarify why I was doing so instead of just saying I quit.

As to why it upset me so much is pretty simple. I'm leaving with the feeling that I was forced into doing so because of something that shouldn't have been such a major issue in the first place... I mean, how hard would it have been to have a nation(s) out near the rim of the galaxy that was not a part of this republic? Hell, such a nation(s) could have easily had something to do with the fall of this republic and wouldn't have needed a first contact RP to even explain it's existence.

I wanted to be a part of this group and that included it's next iteration. But demanding that I change my nations history to fit in with someone else's demands crosses a line in my opinion. To me the entire thing just came across as childish and overbearing and the way it was repeatedly delivered didn't really help. I can understand the need for guidelines and rules to keep things going smoothly but to just arbitrarily demand that people change something that they put large amounts of work into is what actually upset me. That, and the fact that they didn't even attempt to find a reasonable solution that didn't involve just ignoring what other people in the group wanted which wouldn't have been all that difficult; especially since I think at least one was actually mentioned several pages back. It was basically except this or GTFO.

As I said, I could have just as easily ignored the change in my nations history and moved on; hell, I'd eventually intended to do just that as I said. The responses I received were simply the proverbial final nail in the coffin.

And also, I didn't miss most of what you were discussing Toishima, I just didn't want to put even more quotes into that post than I already did and that one pretty much gave the general gist of what I was talking about.

Toishima and Tantalus want their nations to be just as xenophobic as you, and they are staying.

Frankly, as Toishima already said, you'd just have to put in a short line saying a few hundred years ago the Republic gave you a choice: join or die, and you reluctantly accepted join, but you'd have been mostly left in peace ever since (think a "Nyte Autonomous Region").


And actually, one or two types of FTL drives makes sense. In Real Life, if someone invented an FTL drive, there'd probably be only one way to do it. Sure, you could improve them, but you probably wouldn't have dozens of different ways to enter FTL, because that'd require a lot of loopholes in physics. One is acceptable and makes sense. Ten is not.


A "Nyte Autonomous Region" could probably be in place, rather like when the Soviet Union was collapsing and Siberia was essentially ruling itself.

[Toishima]

Laws, laws...

Sapient Race Laws:

0. No sapient will be denied their basic rights as determined by their main governing body, unless such rights conflict with Federal Laws.

1. No sapient may be denied their basic needs as determined by the Federal Council.
-Basic Needs are defined as food (if needed), water (if needed), shelter (if needed) and other exotic needs that may be unique to specific species.
2. No sapient will seek to harm another sapient unless with a justified cause.
3. No sapient will lie, cheat, rape, murder or steal, unless with a justified cause.
4. No sapient race may seek to harm and/or commit genocide against another sapient race, unless with a justified cause.
5. No sapient may seek to create, promote and/or perpetrate subversive acts towards the Federation.

Federal State Laws:

0. No State governing body shall be denied their rights to practice whatever ideology or justice practices they pursue, unless such practices conflict with Federal Laws.

1. No Federal State may seek to harm, through economic or physical means, another Federal State, unless with a justified cause.
-Federal States may seek to harm and/or destroy other Federal States with the approval of the Federal Council, or if the victim of the attack is deemed to have broken Federal State Law #2.
2. No Federal State may seek to create, promote and/or perpetrate subversive acts towards the Federation.
-All rights of a Federal State will be removed as quickly as possible should this law be broken.
3. No Federal State will withhold any information from the Federation as a whole, unless such information would result in said State's demise.
4. No Federal State shall be guilty of genocide, ethnic cleansing, or isolationism, unless with a justified cause.
5. No Federal State is to harbour known criminals or aid said criminals, unless with a justified cause.
-This applies especially to sapients who have broken Sapient Law #5, regardless of cause.

As the Federation has been stated to be a corrupt and probably useless body, I decided to put in all of those "with a justified cause"s so that nations can technically do whatever they want as long as they have a good reason for it. And if the situation will be as I imagine, officials would probably be bribed so much to the point of just ignoring everything and deeming all acts as "justified".

[The Nuclear Fist]

Toishima, you're going to want to replace 'sentient' with 'sapient'. All animals are sentient. Sapient is having an intellect, self-awareness, and mental capacity similar to that of humans. For example, a dog is sentient but not sapient, where as a human is both.

[Caecuser]

Toishima, you're going to want to replace 'sentient' with 'sapient'. All animals are sentient. Sapient is having an intellect, self-awareness, and mental capacity similar to that of humans.

Ah, that's good. Thank you.

[Toishima]

Ah, thank you. I shall make the changes now.

[The Nuclear Fist]

3. No sentient will lie, cheat, rape, murder or steal, unless with a justified cause.

For some reason this part makes me laugh.

I'm going to put that to good use for my Space Mongol/Huns.

Now should I make them cyborgs as well? Hmm.

[Caecuser]

3. No sentient will lie, cheat, rape, murder or steal, unless with a justified cause.

For some reason this part makes me laugh.

I'm going to put that to good use for my Space Mongol/Huns.

Now should I make them cyborgs as well? Hmm.

My AI space-cops have got a good way of punishing repeat-offenders.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Now to justify all of Rampant Brittannia's colonization and general imperialistic tendencies.

[The Orson Empire]

Is this still open?

[Caecuser]

Is this still open?

It's being rebooted - applications and OOC threads should be up today/tomorrow.


G-Tech, for the Greater Good usually suffices.

[The Orson Empire]

Is this still open?

It's being rebooted - applications and OOC threads should be up today/tomorrow.

Alright, I guess I can go ahead and put up an app.

And I've read about this Galactic Republic thing you are planning to do. Can someone explain the details of it to me?