Argument Thread OOC Future Tech Only

[Escalan Corps-Star Island]

Fighter debacle? It's not a debacle if point defense/missiles can't hit them. In theory.

[Kreanoltha]

Fighter debacle? It's not a debacle if point defense/missiles can't hit them. In theory.

Make them intangible until they're inside of the range where the PDWS of the target can not target them without damaging the target? That sounds wanky.

[The Akasha Colony]

Pretty much the only 'realistic' stealth system in space is one that masks a ship's heat and emissions for as long as possible (in example: The Normandy SR-1 and SR-2 from Mass Effect). This system doesn't work while your engines are firing though, so unless you have a 'cold' means of acceleration (such as the Normandy's Mass Effect/Gravity field drive) you can't accelerate while being cold, but it would pretty much prevent anyone from pinging you across the system.

Throw in some standard radar stealth systems and what not, and you have a pretty much stealthy ship. Its not going to be like Star Trek's cloaking technology (that's strictly soft science fiction and has no barring in a topic assuming somewhat normal rules of physics), but you could, say, lurk a few AU away from your enemy's position and observe them with passive sensors to gather intelligence. Mind you, the longer you lurk, the more the enemy might detect you via observable light telescopic mapping or whatever, but the heat you'll eventually have to vent will probably make a bigger impact on how long you can sit and watch than that.

The problem is that unless you have an even wankier method to selectively prevent the emission of gravity by the drive, it'll be just as obvious as the antimatter thrusters. If the gravity well generated is strong enough to pull the ship along at any meaningful speed, it'll be detectable by the enemy, and even less likely to be written off as a bug or natural occurrence, since random gravity wells to the best of our knowledge don't magically appear in rapid succession along a flight path.

[Feazanthia]

Pretty much the only 'realistic' stealth system in space is one that masks a ship's heat and emissions for as long as possible (in example: The Normandy SR-1 and SR-2 from Mass Effect). This system doesn't work while your engines are firing though, so unless you have a 'cold' means of acceleration (such as the Normandy's Mass Effect/Gravity field drive) you can't accelerate while being cold, but it would pretty much prevent anyone from pinging you across the system.

Throw in some standard radar stealth systems and what not, and you have a pretty much stealthy ship. Its not going to be like Star Trek's cloaking technology (that's strictly soft science fiction and has no barring in a topic assuming somewhat normal rules of physics), but you could, say, lurk a few AU away from your enemy's position and observe them with passive sensors to gather intelligence. Mind you, the longer you lurk, the more the enemy might detect you via observable light telescopic mapping or whatever, but the heat you'll eventually have to vent will probably make a bigger impact on how long you can sit and watch than that.

The problem is that unless you have an even wankier method to selectively prevent the emission of gravity by the drive, it'll be just as obvious as the antimatter thrusters. If the gravity well generated is strong enough to pull the ship along at any meaningful speed, it'll be detectable by the enemy, and even less likely to be written off as a bug or natural occurrence, since random gravity wells to the best of our knowledge don't magically appear in rapid succession along a flight path.

Assuming you have a way to detect gravity.

Currently there is no way other than to measure its influence on other things.

[Sertian]

Assuming you have a way to detect gravity.

Currently there is no way other than to measure its influence on other things.

Feaz hit the nail on the head, there. Not to mention that you can generate a smaller, more localized gravity field (conceivably) if you could manipulate gravity.

[SquareDisc City]

Just claim the gravitational potential created doesn't follow the normal inverse square law and instead has zero effect beyond a certain range, therefore it can't be directly detected by a more distant observer. Of course some indirect methods would remain possible, most obviously the deflection of starlight that passes through the field.

[The Akasha Colony]

The problem is that unless you have an even wankier method to selectively prevent the emission of gravity by the drive, it'll be just as obvious as the antimatter thrusters. If the gravity well generated is strong enough to pull the ship along at any meaningful speed, it'll be detectable by the enemy, and even less likely to be written off as a bug or natural occurrence, since random gravity wells to the best of our knowledge don't magically appear in rapid succession along a flight path.

Assuming you have a way to detect gravity.

Currently there is no way other than to measure its influence on other things.

Assuming you have the technology to manipulate it in the first place, detecting it would be the easy part.

Assuming you have a way to detect gravity.

Currently there is no way other than to measure its influence on other things.

Feaz hit the nail on the head, there. Not to mention that you can generate a smaller, more localized gravity field (conceivably) if you could manipulate gravity.

Gravity unfortunately doesn't work that way unless you're doing to do what a lot of pop sci-fi does and throw out the actual meaning of the term, replacing it with whatever effect you want to happen.

[Feazanthia]

I was not discounting the probability of the technology's existence. I was merely pointing out the fact that, just as we have no idea how to generate gravity beyond "let's add mass", we have no idea how to detect energy. The amount of handwaving needed to detect gravity is proportional to the amount of handwaving needed to generate artificial gravity.

Also the stealth system in the Normandy SR-2 does nothing to defend against "active" detection or even passive detection in wavelengths beyond infrared. For instance, if the SR-2 were moving at anything approaching even low relativistic speed (which it appears to do, and would seem to be within the realm of Mass Effect technology), it would intercept the local star's solar wind. The resulting collision would throw off spikes of high-frequency radiation. A reasonably sensitive FT-grade system detection grid would read these spikes and direct active LIDAR and other forms of active detection in the ship's direction. In which case, the stealth drive on the SR-2 becomes less of a magical invisibility field and more of a "I'll reduce my cross section, making it harder for you to get a weapons lock on me" stealth system more similar to real life equipment. It then becomes a proverbial arms race between the ability of the system to reduce its cross-section and the "intelligence" of the munition en-route to kill said system.

But bringing us back to the topic of fighters, making them "stealth" still doesn't solve the problem of them being an almost criminal waste of resources for lower returns.

[Yes Im Biop]

What defines Fighters? I have 2-3 man stealth ships made for harrasment and they have a FTL drive

[SquareDisc City]

A pertinent question, and I don't think there's much common definition. They're usually small, low tens of metres being typical. Often they're manned but sometimes not, and if they are manned then they may or may not also be unmanned equivalents called something different like 'drones'. Sometimes they always have FTL drives, sometimes they never do, sometimes there's a mix. Typically they're carried by larger ships, and quite often almost every larger ship has a fighter complement, but you might see them only on dedicated carriers or operating entirely independently.

Perhaps the biggest point of variation though is whether or not they're supposed to be a threat to big ships, or only to engage other stuff about their own size. The former is perfectly reasonable in a setting where weapons are sufficiently ahead of armour and shields. In my case it's the latter by definition; craft that are about fighter-sized but meant to threaten larger enemy ships are called bombers not fighters.

[Yes Im Biop]

Well it carries 4 bomb bays with ether 2 50Meg nukes or 40,000 LBS of bomb's apiece. and a few 100meg Nuclear mines..

[Ularn]

Well it carries 4 bomb bays with ether 2 50Meg nukes or 40,000 LBS of bomb's apiece. and a few 100meg Nuclear mines..

Are these the things where you just took a modern stealth bomber and somehow made it spaceworthy? Because yes; those would count as fighters.

[Yes Im Biop]

Well it carries 4 bomb bays with ether 2 50Meg nukes or 40,000 LBS of bomb's apiece. and a few 100meg Nuclear mines..

Are these the things where you just took a modern stealth bomber and somehow made it spaceworthy? Because yes; those would count as fighters.

Quadrupled the size. And does not take a Fighter Role. Unless it can be helped anyway. More like a Micro Corvette.

[Escalan Corps-Star Island]

In actuality I was more considering using fighters for a mobile, changing point defense screen around my own capital ships for defense. . .

[Kreanoltha]

In actuality I was more considering using fighters for a mobile, changing point defense screen around my own capital ships for defense. . .

That's actually a decent idea if you really want to have fighters.

[The Akasha Colony]

On the subject of PDS, I amusingly just realized that I put four times as many short-range missile emplacements as intended while linearting my space battleship. Rather than the spec'ed 2,000 launchers in twenty 10 x 10 VLS racks, I ended up with 8,000 in twenty 20 x 20 VLS racks, and they still take up less space than expected.

Which partly offsets the fact that a few other components are way larger than I had expected once properly sketched to scale.

[Escalan Corps-Star Island]

In actuality I was more considering using fighters for a mobile, changing point defense screen around my own capital ships for defense. . .

That's actually a decent idea if you really want to have fighters.

Why thank you. G-Tech and I were just talking on #FT-B about tech and stuffs for an hour.

[Durmatagno]

That's actually a decent idea if you really want to have fighters.

Why thank you. G-Tech and I were just talking on #FT-B about tech and stuffs for an hour.

ummmm......I don't really think you were, and if you were, WHY AREN'T YOU ON #FT-Bravo, the new channel. (for like a month or two now)

[Trailers]

Quadrupled the size. And does not take a Fighter Role. Unless it can be helped anyway. More like a Micro Corvette.

The things you say make me giggle.

[Yes Im Biop]

Quadrupled the size. And does not take a Fighter Role. Unless it can be helped anyway. More like a Micro Corvette.

The things you say make me giggle.

Olala. Can't. CANT be helped. That sounds better.

[Escalan Corps-Star Island]

Why thank you. G-Tech and I were just talking on #FT-B about tech and stuffs for an hour.

ummmm......I don't really think you were, and if you were, WHY AREN'T YOU ON #FT-Bravo, the new channel. (for like a month or two now)

I knew that, but I was intentionally having a private conversation.

[Ularn]

The things you say make me giggle.

Olala. Can't. CANT be helped. That sounds better.

I don't think it was your grammar that he was taking issue with. I couldn't be bothered pursuing the topic but now I might as well ask, what is the point in making a spaceship shaped like a giant stealth bomber? For what reason would such a design ever make sense?

[Escalan Corps-Star Island]

Olala. Can't. CANT be helped. That sounds better.

I don't think it was your grammar that he was taking issue with. I couldn't be bothered pursuing the topic but now I might as well ask, what is the point in making a spaceship shaped like a giant stealth bomber? For what reason would such a design ever make sense?

Looking awesome.

[Ularn]

I don't think it was your grammar that he was taking issue with. I couldn't be bothered pursuing the topic but now I might as well ask, what is the point in making a spaceship shaped like a giant stealth bomber? For what reason would such a design ever make sense?

Looking awesome.

If you have to try to look awesome then you've already failed.

[Escalan Corps-Star Island]

Looking awesome.

If you have to try to look awesome then you've already failed.

Good point. Just be awesome.