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RP Population Realism Guide

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Radiatia
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RP Population Realism Guide

Postby Radiatia » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:03 am

- Disclaimer #1: This guide is mainly aimed at Modern Tech nations. If you are a Past Tech or Future Tech nation, then chances are this guide will be about as useful to you as telephones are to deaf people.

- Disclaimer #2: I'm aware that this guide probably belongs in FB&NI. However as it's mostly aimed at the II roleplaying community, I thought I'd post it here.

- Disclaimer #3: My suggestions are just that: Suggestions. You are not obliged to follow my ideas as if they were holy writ. While I may be a cold-hearted, tyrannical and controlling individual in real life, I try to be a little bit nicer when I'm on NS...

- Disclaimer #4: This guide is somewhat a work in process, so I may go back and change things if more ideas and thoughts come to me. Or not. Or maybe you'll have a good idea and discuss it below.




Radiatia's Short, Sharp and Kind of Painful Guide to Realistic RP Populations:

I intend for this guide to possibly become a discussion thread, and for people to answer each other's questions on these matters, in the vain of the NS Military Consultation Thread. As to how well this will play out, well.... only time will tell....

Introduction:

As much as I love Nationstates, one of my pet peeves has always been that the NS game gives you some rather ridiculous population numbers.

For example, when we start off our nation has 'only' 5 million people and is considered tiny - despite the fact that 5 million people would mean you are bigger than countries such as Norway, Ireland and New Zealand.

And indeed the game would have us believe that a country with 100 million people barely exists at all, given the fact that most countries on NS seem to hover around 1 billion or more - even though in real life there are only 11 countries with populations over 100 million.

This is a problem for those of us role-players. While many of us (including myself) have given ourselves an RP population, even then we tend to be either a) still quite unrealistic or b) pitted against nations who do use their NS stats.

And needless to say, the NS stats are probably directly responsible for the number of nations who seem to have standing armies of 50 million people - despite the fact that the largest army in history (The Soviet Army in 1945) was believed to have been 13 million people (or possibly up to 20 million according to some sources)...

These crazy statistics can make RPing difficult for those of us who like realism and fairer play.

Right, that's my rant over, let's see if I can come up with something useful...

1. Bigger isn't always better:

As I mentioned before, 5 million people makes you bigger than countries such as Norway, Ireland and New Zealand.

While these nations aren't exactly military superpowers, they DO all happen to rank amongst the 5 richest countries/highest standards of living on earth*.

*(Or at least they did before a certain North American republic decided to cause a certain global recession...)

While there are exceptions to every rule, I would say that as a rule of thumb, the smaller your nation is, the more likely you are to have higher living standards.

If you are a nation who insists on exceeding a billion people - or even exceeding 100 million - chances are your standards of living aren't particularly crash-hot. Although parts of China and India are lovely, if we were to be honest with ourselves, the first thing that pops into our heads when we think "India" isn't a picture of a cleanliness, wealth or high living standards...

My suggestion when deciding on your RP population is to remember there will likely be a trade-off - while a higher population may give you more military strength, keeping your population lower is more likely to see you become a nicer, wealthier country.

And of course there are exceptions to every rule.

2. The Billionaires and 100-Millionaires Club:

There are only two nations on earth in excess of a billion people: Chingland and Indiana.
And although both nations' economies are on the rise, in real and per capita terms it means diddly squat. There's too many people.

There are NO nations with over 1.5 billion people, NO nations with over 2 billion, NO nations with over 3 billion and indeed the only two continents with over a billion people are Africa and Asia - and both of these continents are bloody huge physically. (I mean, you'd have to get up VERY early in the morning if you wanted to walk across them.)

There are only 11 countries with populations above 100 million, and of that 11 only two of those countries (Japan and the USA) are considered nations with a high standard of living - and even the USA has a pretty shocking level of poverty.

As a trade-off however, these nations do hold the keys to military might and 4 out of the 5 most powerful nations on earth are in excess of 100 million people. (China, USA, Russia and India.) But even then you can still be powerful without being huge - the UK is usually considered the 3rd most powerful country and it "only" has 60 million people.

Nations between 20-80 million people tend to have the best of both worlds in terms of military might and quality of life - think France, Germany, UK, Australia, Canada, etc.

3. Using the USA as an example:

People often fall into the trap of using the USA as an example from which they base some of their nation stats (I myself am somewhat guilty of this).

Of course what people fail to take into account is... in terms of both population and landmass, the USA is ridiculously huge. It is surpassed only by China and India in population, and only by Canada and Russia in landmass.

Unless you're willing to put in a hell of a lot of effort, your nation probably isn't going to be that rich, or that strong - there's probably going to have to be a trade-off of some sort.

Likewise with the 300 million to 1 billion people zone. While Nationstates may have you believe your kingdom of 700 million people is a humble nation, in actuality you are excessively large.

4. Geography Matters:

While people don't often talk about landmass and geography (which is a shame because that happens to be my field of expertise), I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Realistically, if your nation is an island and you have a population of 10 billion people (nearly twice the earth's population)... it's going to be one hell of a crowded island. And it isn't going exist. Unless you're an island the size of Eurasia. And on another planet. In the future. And all your people are midgets. Who eat grass.

I'm sure you get my point.

Most heavily populated countries tend to have quite large landmasses - the exception being Japan, who I just don't know how they fit so many people into such a small space, and I personally suspect the involvement of witchcraft.

But even if you do have a large landmass, it is unlikely to stop your country from falling to some sort of poverty - there's a trade-off here too.

The more land you have, the more likely it is to be terrible. Russia, Canada, the USA, China, Australia, Greenland ... although they have their nice parts (apart from Greenland. There's a reason only 50,000 people live there...), the reason that no one seems to be after their land is because no one wants it - it's crappy, infertile stuff.

Physically smaller countries tend to have nicer, more fertile, or more tolerable landscapes - New Zealand, Scandinavia, most of Europe, etc.

Population and landmass go hand in hand (unless you're Japanese) so be prepared to take these things into account, and be prepared for there to almost always be some sort of trade-off. (I have never used the term trade-off in my life and yet I'm using it far too often for my liking in this thread.)

5. Cities:

You do not have a capital city with a population of 500 million people. Sorry. But if you're a modern tech nation... no. Just no.

The largest city proper on earth is Shanghai - with a population of 14 million people. And it has a landmass of 2505 km2 - the size of the county of Oxforshire in the UK, nearly twice the size of the State of Delaware and physically larger than the nation of Luxembourg.

The largest metropolitan area in the world is Tokyo with 30 million people - and that's comprised of 26 smaller cities, in an area that is larger than Qatar, Jamaica and Lebanon.

I would say it's very important to bear this in mind when designing cities in your nation.

Once again, people make the mistake of basing themselves off the USA, which has several cities over 1 million people. And once again I respectfully remind them that the USA is a freakishly large country.

6. Radiatia as an example:
(Or: "Me denying I'm a hypocrite despite the fact that you know as well as I do that I am.")

I gave Radiatia an RP population of 202,950,000 people, making it a very large country. (My reason was that I had based it off China, Russia and the USA when I designed it.)

Geographically I had also decided it would be a country of a similar size to Russia, because I'm oh-so-original.

However I didn't want to turn myself into someone who godmods or powerplays, so I gave my giant nation some limitations.

For example, although it is a huge country, most of it is either desert of arctic, and as a result the nation struggles to have enough food for all 202,950,000 citizens.

And although it is a relatively rich country due to its natural resources and infrastructure, I still decided to be a bit cruel and make 11% of the population be either starving or under the poverty line, and use reasons such as geographic isolation and infertile land the reasons for this divide - just as would, and does, happen in real life.

So In Conclusion...

Here are my main suggestions for making a realistic RP population:

1. Consider knocking the decimal place back a bit? If you have a gameplay population of 18 billion, consider making 1.8 billion, or perhaps just a billion. Likewise, if you're a "humble" 700 million, consider being 70 million instead.

2. If you do have a number in mind, remember the cost. There's going to be a trade-off (there's that word again). You are not going to be a clean, green, country with no poverty, an incredible military and a population of 800 million people. It's going to be one or the other.

3. Remember that landmass and population go hand in hand - and that large landmasses come with their own set of problems.

4. If you are a nation of over 100 million (Such as Radiatia), you may have a strong military, and even a strong economy, but you probably still won't be a particularly nice country to live in and some degree of poverty is inevitable.

5. If you have less than 10 million people, you won't be a military superpower of course - but you'll probably be the envy of the world in terms of quality of life.

6. If you're a nation that is a relatively nice place to live, but is still able to hold its own in a fight, then chances are your population will fall between 20-80 million people.




Thanks for reading and I hope this incoherent rant "guide" will be useful, even if its only use is as a future example of "how not to write a guide."

Feel free to comment, debate, discuss, criticise, vent your spleen or point and laugh below.

I may edit or update this in the future. But most likely I'll just run away and try to forget this whole thing ever happened...
Last edited by Jenrak on Tue May 01, 2012 1:44 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Jenrak
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Postby Jenrak » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:11 pm

This is quite an interesting guide. FA'd.

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Estovakiva
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Postby Estovakiva » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:20 pm

1. Bigger isn't always better:

As I mentioned before, 5 million people makes you bigger than countries such as Norway, Ireland and New Zealand.

Just a note mate Norway reached 5 million 2-4 days ago.

But as said by Yohannes gewd guide.
Last edited by Estovakiva on Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Yohannes
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Postby Yohannes » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:24 pm

I disagree with one particular point contain inside this guide. Just because one roleplay with a large population (their actual NS population), it does not mean that one is expected and/or pressured to roleplay their nation as having a poor economy.

Despite that one bit, I quite like this guide overall. Nice Radiatia!
Last edited by Yohannes on Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mirchaz » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:40 pm

I love the part about the poverty. I've always figured Mirchaz to be a problem nation because of its sheer size (I consider 15 bill as big even by NS standards, even if there are significantly bigger). Chopped to 10% for reality, and it's STILL a giant nation. Parts of Mirchaz can match Western Europe or the rich parts of the US for standard of living, but other parts more closely resemble the bad parts of Africa.
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Dukopolious
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Postby Dukopolious » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:03 pm

Nice guide.
2 issues though,
You stated that large populations = Bad Economy and that Small population = Good Economy.
I'd like to point out, Japan for example has a pretty good standard of living (They have toilets with heating!) and a massive population,
Haiti has a tiny population and a terrible standard of living. This rule only really works with averages, which many NS nations are not.

Also, many nations RP by a larger population because NS is simply larger than earth. By lowering one's population, you still wouldn't have an advantage over nations which refuse to do so. What's interesting about NS is that it gives everyone a chance to be massive on their own accord.

The guide is good, but because of NS standards I'd raise the numbers a bit.
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Radiatia
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Postby Radiatia » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:46 pm

Hey guys, thanks for the comments.

I'd just like to clarify that there are exceptions to every rule (I think I mentioned that) so yes Japan and the US are both very rich countries with huge populations.

And of course no one is under any obligation whatsoever to follow any of my suggestions. They are just suggestions, nothing more.

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Nui-ta
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Postby Nui-ta » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:31 pm

I kinda wish there was one for alternative technologies, as that is the direction I am planning to take Nui-ta towards.

I stuck with the safe population of about 19,838,000 people, (considering Nui-ta is the size of Spain and has similar land connections and geography) because that seemed safe enough to me --- especially considering that Nui-ta is still developing to some extent, and has an agriculture based economy (but some damn good farmland to back them up).

Realistically, if your nation is an island and you have a population of 10 billion people (nearly twice the earth's population)... it's going to be one hell of a crowded island. And it isn't going exist. Unless you're an island the size of Eurasia. And on another planet. In the future. And all your people are midgets. Who eat grass.


You win, good sir.
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Radiatia
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Postby Radiatia » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:10 am

Nui-ta wrote:I kinda wish there was one for alternative technologies, as that is the direction I am planning to take Nui-ta towards.

I stuck with the safe population of about 19,838,000 people, (considering Nui-ta is the size of Spain and has similar land connections and geography) because that seemed safe enough to me --- especially considering that Nui-ta is still developing to some extent, and has an agriculture based economy (but some damn good farmland to back them up).

Realistically, if your nation is an island and you have a population of 10 billion people (nearly twice the earth's population)... it's going to be one hell of a crowded island. And it isn't going exist. Unless you're an island the size of Eurasia. And on another planet. In the future. And all your people are midgets. Who eat grass.


You win, good sir.



Ah you're a PMT nation? I don't really know much about PMT sorry but I'd say the rules are similar.

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Van Luxemburg
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Postby Van Luxemburg » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:26 am

I really like this guide. Within Maredoratica (my region, for those who did not realize) we have tried to adhere to lower populatons, generally below 150 million ( with some exceptions). What we also instated was a trade-off between size and wealth, as proposed here, with larger nations having a lower GDP per capita and smaller nations being allowed a higher GDP. This to even out size differences and create more of a level playing field in which no particular nation can control the region.

I'm really glad that II now also has an article on this! Good work!

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Postby Radiatia » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:59 am

Van Luxemburg wrote:I really like this guide. Within Maredoratica (my region, for those who did not realize) we have tried to adhere to lower populatons, generally below 150 million ( with some exceptions). What we also instated was a trade-off between size and wealth, as proposed here, with larger nations having a lower GDP per capita and smaller nations being allowed a higher GDP. This to even out size differences and create more of a level playing field in which no particular nation can control the region.

I'm really glad that II now also has an article on this! Good work!


Thank you!

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Postby The United Soviet Socialist Republic » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:34 am

I for one would argue that a larger population would actually be GOOD for the economy, reason being is because more people means more workers, more workers means more tax money going to the government, more tax money means the government can invest that in a variety of economic programs, and boom economic growth. Either way it is a good guide.
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Postby Elcric Kcalb » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:43 pm

Radiatia wrote:Realistically, if your nation is an island and you have a population of 10 billion people (nearly twice the earth's population)... it's going to be one hell of a crowded island. And it isn't going exist. Unless you're an island the size of Eurasia. And on another planet. In the future. And all your people are midgets. Who eat grass.


You, good sir, have won my signature.

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Radiatia
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Postby Radiatia » Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:27 pm

The United Soviet Socialist Republic wrote:I for one would argue that a larger population would actually be GOOD for the economy, reason being is because more people means more workers, more workers means more tax money going to the government, more tax money means the government can invest that in a variety of economic programs, and boom economic growth. Either way it is a good guide.


I'm mainly referring to wealth per capita, but statistically speaking the USA and Japan are the only first world/rich countries with populations over 100 million - and Japan is the only one that doesn't have a massive income divide.

I mean China, India and Nigeria are all very rich countries - but with so many people, that wealth doesn't mean much.

Thanks for your comments!

Elcric Kcalb wrote:
Radiatia wrote:Realistically, if your nation is an island and you have a population of 10 billion people (nearly twice the earth's population)... it's going to be one hell of a crowded island. And it isn't going exist. Unless you're an island the size of Eurasia. And on another planet. In the future. And all your people are midgets. Who eat grass.


You, good sir, have won my signature.


Thanks, I'm honoured!

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Postby Nui-ta » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:50 pm

Radiatia wrote:
Nui-ta wrote:I kinda wish there was one for alternative technologies, as that is the direction I am planning to take Nui-ta towards.

I stuck with the safe population of about 19,838,000 people, (considering Nui-ta is the size of Spain and has similar land connections and geography) because that seemed safe enough to me --- especially considering that Nui-ta is still developing to some extent, and has an agriculture based economy (but some damn good farmland to back them up).



You win, good sir.



Ah you're a PMT nation? I don't really know much about PMT sorry but I'd say the rules are similar.


I don't mean to be stupid....but what is PMT?
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Postby Dukopolious » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:55 pm

Nui-ta wrote:
Radiatia wrote:

Ah you're a PMT nation? I don't really know much about PMT sorry but I'd say the rules are similar.


I don't mean to be stupid....but what is PMT?


Post Modern Tech. It's pretty much the step before FT (Future Tech). PMT is anywhere from about 2050-ish to before lightspeed.
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Postby Stoklomolvi » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:08 pm

While I think this guide is nice for players who want to RP with cookie-cutter European states [those who like money and military] or cookie-cutter poverty states [those who like lots of people], I think that capping a population or reducing it would thoroughly defeat the purpose of NS. It's one thing to RP with small countries on some forum where the populations and economies of all its players are relatively fixed; on NS, populations grow at startling rates, with several million people joining the ranks of every country everyday. I don't see any other website that allows for countries like that, and I personally would say that it would be best to just take it and run with it. Forget small populations and analogues to RL Earth, that earth does not exist.

Of course, I am supremely biased when it comes to population, as I abhor population capping and I always have abhorred it.
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Postby Layarteb » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:19 pm

I've always been supportive of a population cap [voluntary that is] for realistic RPs and purposes. We do it in Earth II because we use RL geography. So to help with the example, here is what I have:

Layarteb
Area - 6,150,919 sq.mi / 15,930,805 sq.km
Population - 1,335,000,000
Density - 651.11 / sq.mi | 251.39 / sq.km

So while my nation has more people than China or India, it also has more land and that land contains less unusable land than China has. I don't have a giant Gobi Desert, for example.

A RL equivalent, in terms of population density, which really is overlooked by most NS players, is the UK, which is 259 / sq.km.

The UK is the 53rd densest state in terms of population density. That's reasonable.
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[Featured Article] RP Population Realism Guide

Postby Parhe » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:28 pm

Yohannes wrote:I disagree with one particular point contain inside this guide. Just because one roleplay with a large population (their actual NS population), it does not mean that one is expected and/or pressured to roleplay their nation as having a poor economy.

Despite that one bit, I quite like this guide overall. Nice Radiatia!

I agree. If a person uses gameplay stats for population than they may use a game calculator for the economy per capita, which isn't impacted by population size.

Another thing, your part about islands doesn't make sense, since the way you describe it, you seem to be using Earth's geography or at least as a base, which most people don't.
Most people make their own landmasses, and they range greatly in size. Fact is, you are right that most nations are "on another planet." No disrespect, but much or your reasoning seems based very much on what is on Earth, which just is not what this game is.

I mean, for the top ten countries population wise, the low living standards might have to do more with history than with the actual population size. Of the top ten, India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Nigeria and Bangladesh were not so long ago colonies where they were used mainly for their natural resources, China has recently, in a relative sense, come out of isolation economic rise, Russia has only in the last decade really healed from the fall of the USSR, America and Japan actually does have a good lifestyle, and a pretty good stable history compared to the other nations here, and, well, you got me on Brazil. For Brazil I don't really have a historic reason(because I do not know the history well; there might be some reasons besides it just having a high population.)

Despite my complaining, good job on this guide, it is somewhat helpful and you seemed to have put some effort into it, something that I always congratulate regardless of the outcome.
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Postby Radiatia » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:36 pm

I can't respond to all these comments, but as I said these are just suggestions.

If you want to use NS stats, you are welcome to - however it's certainly not going to be realistic. I personally like realism in my roleplays, so ridiculous numbers don't sit well with me. Other people do like the crazy numbers and the "broken reality" and that's fine too.


Layarteb wrote:I've always been supportive of a population cap [voluntary that is] for realistic RPs and purposes. We do it in Earth II because we use RL geography. So to help with the example, here is what I have:

Layarteb
Area - 6,150,919 sq.mi / 15,930,805 sq.km
Population - 1,335,000,000
Density - 651.11 / sq.mi | 251.39 / sq.km

So while my nation has more people than China or India, it also has more land and that land contains less unusable land than China has. I don't have a giant Gobi Desert, for example.

A RL equivalent, in terms of population density, which really is overlooked by most NS players, is the UK, which is 259 / sq.km.

The UK is the 53rd densest state in terms of population density. That's reasonable.


Yeah that's definitely realistic. I like it!

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Yohannes
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Postby Yohannes » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:46 pm

Parhe wrote:and a pretty good stable history compared to the other nations here, and, well, you got me on Brazil. For Brazil I don't really have a historic reason(because I do not know the history well; there might be some reasons besides it just having a high population.)



Brazil was once a backwater colony of Don Juan (or something like that, forgot the precise name), the King of Portugal. When the French invaded following the French Revolution, the Portuguese Royal House of Brazanca (or something like that, hey this is from raw memory? hehe) evaded French suzerainty by escaping towards the Portuegese colonial realm of South America, which was well... essentially modern Brazil (take and give a few land here and there around its geographical border).

The role was turned upside down. The Kingdom of Portugal was now the backwater colonial land, whilst Brazil was the seat of the Portuguese Empire. Following defeat of Napoleon by the Grand Coalition, the treaty freed mainland Portugal in Western Europe free from French suzerainty. The King of Portugal and the House of Brazanca decided to retun back to Portugal to resume the throne.

However, the role has been reversed, and the process could not be altered any longer. What was once an imperial backwater, that of the Brazilian realm, has experienced what it was like being a centralised part of the Portuguese Empire. Trade barriers were lifted under that period, wherein a coalition of the then major powers, led by the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Britannia and Her Empire, acquired various concessions and trading rights, economic relationship and shipping arrangements within Brazil.

The Brazilian elite was thus, not content with seeing their country being reverted back into an imperial backwater, decided to take stock and plan an uprising against the House of Brazanca, and ultimately that of the Kingdom of Portugal. The then King of Portugal, fearing the way in which this latest potential uprising would've in terms of negative impact towards the economy of the then only freed from Napoleonic time Portugal, decided to advice his son, the then Prince Regent, to return to Brazil, and publicly declared his support towards that of a Brazilian partial self-sovereignty under the title of "The United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and [one more name forgot this one]".

It didn't work out, however. Thus, on [forgot the precise year], the Prince Regent declared Brazil to be freed from Portugal and the House of Brazanca.

Thus was born the Empire of Brazil.

From hereon, the Empire imitated the industrial progress of the United States. It was the second largest economy within the western, American hemisphere, second only to that of the United States of America. Export flourished, the Empire of Brazil claimed the rank of great powers when it collided with that of neighbouring Argentina and [forgot the name of the country, its south of the Brazilian Empire back then], and won. Furthermore, it reverted its previous unequal treaties from the British Empire, further increasing the new Empire's hegemony.

A coup d'etat came about however, by which a military dictatorship finally brought down the Empire. From hereon, Brazil was marked by governmental fiscal incompetencies, economic growth and political decline.

Thus the achievements which the Empire of Brazil amalgamated under its wing was thus wasted. From thereon, was born the Brazil of today, and its economic reality and condition as of the present.

[Edited 1 time to add quoted specific to Parhe's post section regarding Brazil]
Last edited by Yohannes on Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Parhe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8236
Founded: May 10, 2011
Anarchy

[Featured Article] RP Population Realism Guide

Postby Parhe » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:27 pm

Yohannes wrote:
Parhe wrote:and a pretty good stable history compared to the other nations here, and, well, you got me on Brazil. For Brazil I don't really have a historic reason(because I do not know the history well; there might be some reasons besides it just having a high population.)



Brazil was once a backwater colony of Don Juan (or something like that, forgot the precise name), the King of Portugal. When the French invaded following the French Revolution, the Portuguese Royal House of Brazanca (or something like that, hey this is from raw memory? hehe) evaded French suzerainty by escaping towards the Portuegese colonial realm of South America, which was well... essentially modern Brazil (take and give a few land here and there around its geographical border).

The role was turned upside down. The Kingdom of Portugal was now the backwater colonial land, whilst Brazil was the seat of the Portuguese Empire. Following defeat of Napoleon by the Grand Coalition, the treaty freed mainland Portugal in Western Europe free from French suzerainty. The King of Portugal and the House of Brazanca decided to retun back to Portugal to resume the throne.

However, the role has been reversed, and the process could not be altered any longer. What was once an imperial backwater, that of the Brazilian realm, has experienced what it was like being a centralised part of the Portuguese Empire. Trade barriers were lifted under that period, wherein a coalition of the then major powers, led by the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Britannia and Her Empire, acquired various concessions and trading rights, economic relationship and shipping arrangements within Brazil.

The Brazilian elite was thus, not content with seeing their country being reverted back into an imperial backwater, decided to take stock and plan an uprising against the House of Brazanca, and ultimately that of the Kingdom of Portugal. The then King of Portugal, fearing the way in which this latest potential uprising would've in terms of negative impact towards the economy of the then only freed from Napoleonic time Portugal, decided to advice his son, the then Prince Regent, to return to Brazil, and publicly declared his support towards that of a Brazilian partial self-sovereignty under the title of "The United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and [one more name forgot this one]".

It didn't work out, however. Thus, on [forgot the precise year], the Prince Regent declared Brazil to be freed from Portugal and the House of Brazanca.

Thus was born the Empire of Brazil.

From hereon, the Empire imitated the industrial progress of the United States. It was the second largest economy within the western, American hemisphere, second only to that of the United States of America. Export flourished, the Empire of Brazil claimed the rank of great powers when it collided with that of neighbouring Argentina and [forgot the name of the country, its south of the Brazilian Empire back then], and won. Furthermore, it reverted its previous unequal treaties from the British Empire, further increasing the new Empire's hegemony.

A coup d'etat came about however, by which a military dictatorship finally brought down the Empire. From hereon, Brazil was marked by governmental fiscal incompetencies, economic growth and political decline.

Thus the achievements which the Empire of Brazil amalgamated under its wing was thus wasted. From thereon, was born the Brazil of today, and its economic reality and condition as of the present.

[Edited 1 time to add quoted specific to Parhe's post section regarding Brazil]

Ah, thanks fgor the explanation, I wasn't expecting anyone to tell me, especially not so much in depth. You know lots about history, Mr. Genius.
Hey, it is Parhe :D I am always open to telegrams.
I know it is a Work-In-Progress, but I would love it if y'all looked at my new factbook and gave me some feedback!

BRING BACK THE ICE CLIMBERS

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Dukopolious
Minister
 
Posts: 2589
Founded: Jun 17, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Dukopolious » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:23 am

Parhe wrote:Ah, thanks fgor the explanation, I wasn't expecting anyone to tell me, especially not so much in depth. You know lots about history, Mr. Genius.


Actually, it's Ms. Genius.
Last edited by Dukopolious on Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mallorea and Riva should resign

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Nui-ta
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1605
Founded: Feb 11, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Nui-ta » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:19 am

Dukopolious wrote:
Nui-ta wrote:
I don't mean to be stupid....but what is PMT?


Post Modern Tech. It's pretty much the step before FT (Future Tech). PMT is anywhere from about 2050-ish to before lightspeed.


I suppose it kind of fits. Nui-ta specializes in biomedical warfare and chemical warfare --- other than that, they don't have any access to normal technology (shying away from Nuclear power, and not yet having the capacity for large scale use of rockets, satellites, and the like).

Things like developing syringe bullets full of poison, various kinds of gas...also we have a system that involves very high-power drugs to turn regular soldiers into super-soldiers for various amounts of time, but this has flaws.

So I...guess that's either PMT or Biotech?
Someone cares? Okay then. Economic Left/Right: -2.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.85

INFP-T personality, quite heavy on the I,P, and T.

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Clean Conscience
Secretary
 
Posts: 29
Founded: Mar 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Clean Conscience » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:13 pm

Check my factbook. I have a small landmass and my nation is an island. I have a population of 2,304,600 and my main exports are rare minerals and food as well as a touch of tourism. My military numbers 26,500. Is this realistic? Also the island is quite tropical.

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