Lost Age OCC Discussion Thread [Former Ceaden Thread]

[Durmatagno]

Actually, my military is out of date, what I was saying is that the old one was approved, maybe I did something wrong in my math or you did, either way I've been planning on reducing it, and if you look, I have done so several times, though only in small amounts.

Also, i started with 5 million credits like most everyone else, I was barely behind that update.

[Legokiller]

Adding one more race works fine and gives the kingdom magic abilities units. This of course are unicorn ponies, I'm make them a minority 25%(1250) of the population in the kingdom of Cloudsdale beside the majority of Pegasuses.

Unicorn Pony (1):
Description: A smaller version of the mythical unicorn. The Colorful with Tattoo-like called "cutie mark" on their flank or haunch Unicorn ponies are famed for magical powers, glowing from their horn.
EQU: None
SPE: 100 miles a day
VAL: 600 credits
PAY: 300 credit
STR: 1
MAG:3

[Durmatagno]

I've halved my military, and I believe Achesia, Hjaarlmarch, and one other all rival my power individually.

[Aelosia]

Adding one more race works fine and gives the kingdom magic abilities units. This of course are unicorn ponies, I'm make them a minority 25%(1250) of the population in the kingdom of Cloudsdale beside the majority of Pegasuses.

Unicorn Pony (1):
Description: A smaller version of the mythical unicorn. The Colorful with Tattoo-like called "cutie mark" on their flank or haunch Unicorn ponies are famed for magical powers, glowing from their horn.
EQU: None
SPE: 100 miles a day
VAL: 600 credits
PAY: 300 credit
STR: 1
MAG:3

Good idea you have there. Yet, there is a little underpricing here. MAG:3 is equivalent to 6 increments of 100 each in pay. So MAG 3 means +600 in PAY. Plus the base 100, it would go up to 700 in pay, which in the other hand is equivalent to a VAL of twice that amount, 1,400 credits.

So my proposal for you according the rules is:

Unicorn Pony:
Description: A smaller version of the mythical unicorn. The Colorful with Tattoo-like called "cutie mark" on their flank or haunch Unicorn ponies are famed for magical powers, glowing from their horn.
EQU: None
SPE: 100 miles a day
VAL: 1400 credits
PAY: 700 credit
STR: 1
MAG:3

[Durmatagno]

Adding one more race works fine and gives the kingdom magic abilities units. This of course are unicorn ponies, I'm make them a minority 25%(1250) of the population in the kingdom of Cloudsdale beside the majority of Pegasuses.

Unicorn Pony (1):
Description: A smaller version of the mythical unicorn. The Colorful with Tattoo-like called "cutie mark" on their flank or haunch Unicorn ponies are famed for magical powers, glowing from their horn.
EQU: None
SPE: 100 miles a day
VAL: 600 credits
PAY: 300 credit
STR: 1
MAG:3

Good idea you have there. Yet, there is a little underpricing here. MAG:3 is equivalent to 6 increments of 100 each in pay. So MAG 3 means +600 in PAY. Plus the base 100, it would go up to 700 in pay, which in the other hand is equivalent to a VAL of twice that amount, 1,400 credits.

So my proposal for you according the rules is:

Unicorn Pony:
Description: A smaller version of the mythical unicorn. The Colorful with Tattoo-like called "cutie mark" on their flank or haunch Unicorn ponies are famed for magical powers, glowing from their horn.
EQU: None
SPE: 100 miles a day
VAL: 1400 credits
PAY: 700 credit
STR: 1
MAG:3

Allright, everything is updated (I found that my "Spears of the Coast" hadn't been factored into my numbers and shouldn't have been in the pay, they're gone)

[Legokiller]

Thankfully the Pegasus decided to choose economic goals first . Besides this is how I'm gonna pay for the Pony-at-Hooves and other units for future Expansion. So I accept your proposal for following the rules Aelosia.

V.2

Unicorn Pony:
Description: A smaller version of the mythical unicorn. The Colorful with Tattoo-like called "cutie mark" on their flank or haunch Unicorn ponies are famed for magical powers, glowing from their horn.
EQU: None
SPE: 100 miles a day
VAL: 1400 credits
PAY: 700 credit
STR: 1
MAG:3

[Achesia]

Flip back, before you moderated I went through a year with the bonuses and changes and such, he saw everything and all, plus I did say MOST OF MY MILITARY. Remember I'm among the largest here ATM

Indeed. I do not negate the fact that you are one of the largest, if not the largest. Without doubt your military is force wise the largest by a rather large amount (I did run those numbers too). Even so, your military breaks the rules of the game. That keeps being a fact. If Ceaden wants to allow it, then fine. He's the moderator, I'm just assisting him. I am assisting him mostly with things like this, finding incoherencies like this one. I am doing what I am supposed to do.

I am NOT moderating. I am ASSISTING Ceaden, he's the boss and he has the last word on everything. I just highlighted it, as I have highlighted many other things in the past (And not only overprices and overpower, but also underpower and unprices, as you can see in other posts). I think he gave you permission in the past maybe because he did not realize either the VAST number incoherencies, or the consequences of such numbers were not as clear as they seem to be now.

You can get away with it, again if Ceaden allows it. Doesn't mean you aren't breaking the rules everyone else is following. You still are. And by a large amount, that. Your military budgets is 100% LARGER than your budget, even having a budget, a PPC, a population and a country way larger than everyone else. (And that is fine, because you are larger and you started first. I do understand that and have no problem with it). You had some advantaged, then cheated on those advantages to create a gap between you and the others.

The point of you being older and larger is irrevelant. I did flip back, it is part of what I do. I am not denying your advantages as being a year older, having more resources, more population, more PPC and GDP. My point is, that over the top of all those advantages, you went and doubled them up. You have units with more power and STR than entire COALITIONS of countries. And that, frankly, is not what bothers me. What bothers me is that you were given a fair amount of advantages, and instead of getting its benefits as a headstart, you went way far to the overpower side. I don't think you did not compare your forces with Achesia's forces, (which are balanced, by the way). Didn't you realized you had a force way over the top of the nation older than you?

Frankly, at first I believed you did. I thought this was a MISTAKE from your part. As in, you did not realize the inconsistencies. By your posts, I realize you have done it in purpose. I have found some other inconsistencies in other countries, but frankly, they are minor, way minor as to make a note over it, 3 resources over here, 1,000 credits somewhere. Your "mistake" is having military twice the size you are allowed to. Twice the size you are allowed to with a LOT of advantages over other countries, as is starting with 10,000,000 credits instead of 5, and having in general a larger population and already one year of taxes ahead. Those advantages are legal. Having a pay of -417,198 is no small feat. Actually, having a military budget of 418,000 (instead of the 40,000-60,000 TOP other people have), is advantage enough, I think.

The problem I see is that the mathhammer and the carefully woven rules are here to give balance to a game. And your numbers break said balance by 100%. If you get away with it then everyone should have. And could. And then the balance and all the work in the numbers is wasted.

I can list for you what you should be able to get away with and what you shouldn't:

SHOULD KEEP:
- Having a population of at least twice the size everyone else.
- Having a larger pool of resources.
- Having more land.
- Twice the starting credits than everyone else.
- A higher yearly budget with PPC and GDP for a total of 423,000, which is around eight to ten times more than everyone else's budget.

Those are your rightfully earned benefits as an older nation than everyone else. You should keep those. Frankly, I think those are advantages enough. You are already around 5-8 times bigger and meaner than everyone else with those.

SHOULDN'T KEEP:
- A military with a budget of 841,000 which is twice your current military budget. You should crop your military to half or even less.

Have you realized that you can practically roll over not ANYONE, (that could be possible), but EVERYONE at once?

I don't think having an army 10 times the size of everyone else and with units that are more powerful by themselves than full armies of other people is balanced, sorry. And I don't think it is a fair reward for having a little bit more time than everyone else here. It is not my decision, but my opinion stand. And this post is so long because I want both my point to be clear, in a rational way, and everything analyzed properly for me, for you, and for everyone else.

As a side note. This is not personal, this is because your list seems to have a rather amazing incoherency to it. An incoherency of 100%

I concur with this. I reviewed both your posted military and information on the Ledger. You have a tax rate of 15% which is not nearly enough to cover your military. What you get from taxes is the only part of your GDP you can spend, whether its on improvements, upkeep, etc. I'll give you until the end of the month when Ceaden year comes to a close to take care of everything and fix it and then the staff will review it again.

I know its nice to have a large military and whatnot but like I've said before Ceaden is here for a set rules and structure for players, beyond that it is free to be creative but when it comes to things that deal with competition between nations there are rules that I expect all members to follow. Thanks for understanding.

-Achesia

[Achesia]

So here it is, apologies for being so late and so thorough.
Claims (big map): Big Claim Map It's the smaller box, the bigger box was a bit too big.
Claims (small map):Small Claim Map

Terrain distribution:
Water: 3291 sq. mi.
Sea Level: 2869 sq. mi.
High Land: 2353 sq. mi.
Low Mountains: 1028 sq. mi.
High Mountains: 158 sq. mi.
Total: 9999 sq. mi.

Resources (Rounded to the nearest whole number):
Stone: 404
Iron: 363
Carbon: 280
Silver: 120
Gold: 94
Wood: 3913
Oil: 1232

Population
Coastline: Approximately 130 miles
(100*100/4)*1.3 = 3250 people.

Please double check everything as necessary. Thank you.

I will add base resources once my number is given to me. Same for population. Then I shall make my military!

For your resources did you calculate those yourself? You know you start with the base resources right?

Base Resources:
# of Stone: 1250
# of Iron: 2000
# of Steel: 0
# of Carbon: 400
# of Wood: 16000
# of Gold: 250
# of Silver: 400
# of Oils: 3000

Heres your checklist.

-Edit focus map (given by staff) with improvements you wish to make on your land.
-Submit list of improvements with focus map (settlements, fortifications, roads, etc)
-Submit your GDP, PPC, and Tax Rate. Submit to Ledger
-Begin Intro RP
-Create Fact book
-Declare your military on the Forces Declaration page, with complete stats of all units.
-Complete Intro RP.

[Yesopalitha]

I calculated what the land gave me. I thought you guys are supposed to give me a number for me to see what percent of the base resources I start off with... Does what the land gives me get added onto that?

[Durmatagno]

Ummm, Achesia, I halved my military, and removed 240 odd units I hadn't counted anyway.

[Achesia]

I calculated what the land gave me. I thought you guys are supposed to give me a number for me to see what percent of the base resources I start off with... Does what the land gives me get added onto that?

No you just got off of base resources.

Generated Number: 3 (Base Resources)

# of Stone: 1250
# of Iron: 2000
# of Steel: 0
# of Carbon: 400
# of Wood: 16000
# of Gold: 250
# of Silver: 400
# of Oils: 3000

[Yesopalitha]

I calculated what the land gave me. I thought you guys are supposed to give me a number for me to see what percent of the base resources I start off with... Does what the land gives me get added onto that?

No you just got off of base resources.

Generated Number: 3 (Base Resources)

# of Stone: 1250
# of Iron: 2000
# of Steel: 0
# of Carbon: 400
# of Wood: 16000
# of Gold: 250
# of Silver: 400
# of Oils: 3000

gotcha. will edit in the base resources and await my focus map!

[Achesia]

No you just got off of base resources.

Generated Number: 3 (Base Resources)

# of Stone: 1250
# of Iron: 2000
# of Steel: 0
# of Carbon: 400
# of Wood: 16000
# of Gold: 250
# of Silver: 400
# of Oils: 3000

gotcha. will edit in the base resources and await my focus map!

Focus Map

[Yesopalitha]

Thanks Achesia!

[Yesopalitha]

Hm. Is there additional cost for making roads through mountains?

[Achesia]

Hm. Is there additional cost for making roads through mountains?

No.

[Yesopalitha]

Updated map: Vynx-Hal

Reporting of Costs

Stone
Began with: 1250
Extra Large Stone Fortress (Nest of Broken Eggs): -300
Large Stone Walled Settlement (Saratoga): -300
Large Stone Fortress (Truk'ya): -200
420 miles of Roads: -420
Left Over: 30

Wood
Began with: 16000
Large Wooden Walled Settlement (Um'riel): -300
Wooden Fort (Place of Sorrows): -100
Medium Wooden Walled Settlement (Bra'en): -200
Ten Wooden Outposts at 25 each: -250
Grand Bazaar (Tre'housen): -1500
Mine (Trenzheim): -3000
Local Market (Kyr'hak): -1000
Small Wooden Walled Settlement (Vynx): -100
Left Over: 9550

Credits:
Began with: 5000000
Nest of Broken Eggs: -300000
Saratoga: -750000
Tru'kya: -200000
Um'riel: -400000
420 miles of road: -42000
Place of Sorrows: -50000
Bra'en: -300000
10 Wooden Outposts: -100000
Tre'housen: -1000000
Trenzheim: -500000
Kyr'hak: -150000
Vynx: -200000
Left over: 1008000 credits

Total Population: 3250
Percent in the military: 10%, or 325 soldiers
Not in military: 2925 soldiers

Economy:
Begins with one credit.
Land Bonus:
Water: 2.5 credits per person bonus for having over 100 miles of coastline
Gray: 3 credits per person from about 3000 sq. mi.
Dark Tan: 1.5 credits per person from over 2000 sq. mi.
Light Tan: .5 credits per person from about 1000 sq. mi.
Structure Bonus:
Over 400 miles of roads at 1 credits for every 100 miles: 4 credits
13 Fortifications at .2 credits per fortification: 2.6 credits
Local Market (Khy'rak); .25 credits per person
Grand Bazaar (Trehousen): .75 credits per person

Total: 1+2.5+3+1.5+.5+4+2.6+.25+.75 = 16.1 credits per person
Annual income for the whole country: 52325 credits per annum

Well, if you approve of all this, I guess I'll get to forces tomorrow.

[Achesia]

Updated map: Vynx-Hal

Reporting of Costs

Stone
Began with: 1250
Extra Large Stone Fortress (Nest of Broken Eggs): -300
Large Stone Walled Settlement (Saratoga): -300
Large Stone Fortress (Truk'ya): -200
420 miles of Roads: -420
Left Over: 30

Wood
Began with: 16000
Large Wooden Walled Settlement (Um'riel): -300
Wooden Fort (Place of Sorrows): -100
Medium Wooden Walled Settlement (Bra'en): -200
Ten Wooden Outposts at 25 each: -250
Grand Bazaar (Tre'housen): -1500
Mine (Trenzheim): -3000
Local Market (Kyr'hak): -1000
Small Wooden Walled Settlement (Vynx): -100
Left Over: 9550

Credits:
Began with: 5000000
Nest of Broken Eggs: -300000
Saratoga: -750000
Tru'kya: -200000
Um'riel: -400000
420 miles of road: -42000
Place of Sorrows: -50000
Bra'en: -300000
10 Wooden Outposts: -100000
Tre'housen: -1000000
Trenzheim: -500000
Kyr'hak: -150000
Vynx: -200000
Left over: 1008000 credits

Total Population: 3250
Percent in the military: 10%, or 325 soldiers
Not in military: 2925 soldiers

Economy:
Begins with one credit.
Land Bonus:
Water: 2.5 credits per person bonus for having over 100 miles of coastline
Gray: 3 credits per person from about 3000 sq. mi.
Dark Tan: 1.5 credits per person from over 2000 sq. mi.
Light Tan: .5 credits per person from about 1000 sq. mi.
Structure Bonus:
Over 400 miles of roads at 1 credits for every 100 miles: 4 credits
13 Fortifications at .2 credits per fortification: 2.6 credits
Local Market (Khy'rak); .25 credits per person
Grand Bazaar (Trehousen): .75 credits per person

Total: 1+2.5+3+1.5+.5+4+2.6+.25+.75 = 16.1 credits per person
Annual income for the whole country: 52325 credits per annum

Well, if you approve of all this, I guess I'll get to forces tomorrow.

Looks good, heres your updated checklist:

-Begin Intro RP
-Create Fact book
-Declare your military on the Forces Declaration page, with complete stats of all units.
-Complete Intro RP.

[Tuthina]

By the way, do we need to earn the "expansion permit" to expand, or can we just start a thread and invade an empty territory?

[Carbarosia]

Achesia, I will edit my military to have some more heroes.

[Ceaden]

By the way, do we need to earn the "expansion permit" to expand, or can we just start a thread and invade an empty territory?

Nope, just can only expand until your limit.

[Tuthina]

Nope, just can only expand until your limit.

Okay, I think I will expand once the first quest is done.

[Achesia]

Nope, just can only expand until your limit.

Okay, I think I will expand once the first quest is done.

You could do it at the same time as the quest theres no rule against it. Who knows how long the quest will last?

[Tuthina]

You could do it at the same time as the quest theres no rule against it. Who knows how long the quest will last?

Well, given that about 40% of my military is in the quest and should not be able to join the conquest, it might be a bit too risky.

Or maybe I can expand my military more... hmm.

[Achesia]

You could do it at the same time as the quest theres no rule against it. Who knows how long the quest will last?

Well, given that about 40% of my military is in the quest and should not be able to join the conquest, it might be a bit too risky.

Or maybe I can expand my military more... hmm.

Or since you are near me you could seek help from the King of Achesia, he may be willing to provide some aid with the promise of compensation and cooperation in the future.