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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:20 pm
by Vanquaria
Orioni 2 wrote:Seeking some advice. In my region, we're busy developing a points system to help balance the introduction of new members. It involves factors like population, GDP, tech. I'm sure there are other regions in NS that use a similar system. Do you know which ones? It would help to find existing 'best practices'. Thank you. (Cross-posted on the MT Discord server.)


Since it takes a while for countries to upgrade themselves, example China, just let players play what they want and as long as it's balanced, you can tell if they are jerkoffs by their nation apps, and realistic, their current status is backed by their history, there should be no problem. No one joins NS with the intention to play an African country.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:20 pm
by Mubata
Vanquaria wrote: No one joins NS with the intention to play an African country.


Speak for yourself. While I haven't had this as an NS account from the beginning (It started out as a NPC), I have been RPing this nation, complete with the realistic issues of a poor, 3rd world nation for going on 6+ RL years on NS. People tend to gravitate towards dystopian states because more story can be created from them than nations where everything goes right most of the time.

To Orioni 2:
This points system could be problematic if you're not very upfront with every factor that goes into what constitutes the points rewarded. What is the end result of the points? Do nations with more points because they hit all the golden standards get rewarded as opposed to those who are found lacking in human rights and economic freedoms and strengths? In such cases, eventually, you get to where everyone is striving to be the most utopian, perfect, unrealistic nation, and you have to define gradations of who deserves less points for a slightly less that idealistic, utopian set up for their nation. Lot of butt hurt potential there. I would advise against such a subjective system and just let everyone do their thing and have fun with it.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:25 pm
by Vanquaria
Correction: No one initially joins NS wanting to be a povo failure of a country

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:52 pm
by Mubata
Vanquaria wrote:Correction: No one initially joins NS wanting to be a povo failure of a country


No. Some actually do choose that creative challenge. Sometimes it's realistic, but sometimes it's based on Fantech portrayed in modern media, sometimes it's FT with similar origins or influenced by popular media. Should they be penalized in their region for such a choice?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:19 pm
by Vanquaria
Mubata wrote:
Vanquaria wrote:Correction: No one initially joins NS wanting to be a povo failure of a country


No. Some actually do choose that creative challenge. Sometimes it's realistic, but sometimes it's based on Fantech portrayed in modern media, sometimes it's FT with similar origins or influenced by popular media. Should they be penalized in their region for such a choice?


Yes. Only capable rpers in the case of a specific regiins canon know how to integrate and work with a shithole country and I say this from first hand experience. Lmao and there is no penalty beyond the innate weaknesses, I'm pointing out how their "point" system would limit player freedom and there is no better example of a restricted nation than a 3rd world nation.

war

PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:34 am
by Nation of Morgan Freeman
1. how do we declare war?
2. how do you fight a war?
(there are a few nations I want to declare war on)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:36 am
by Crysuko
Nation of morgan freeman wrote:1. how do we declare war?
2. how do you fight a war?
(there are a few nations I want to declare war on)

It's all done through RP and creative writing. Observe some war 'plays in international incidents if you want to get the idea

PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:41 am
by Nation of Morgan Freeman
Crysuko wrote:
Nation of morgan freeman wrote:1. how do we declare war?
2. how do you fight a war?
(there are a few nations I want to declare war on)

It's all done through RP and creative writing. Observe some war 'plays in international incidents if you want to get the idea

thank you.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:31 am
by Sali and Koconos
I need help organizing a RP have started. Is it possible to get some kind of mentor?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:33 am
by Sunset
Sali and Koconos wrote:I need help organizing a RP have started. Is it possible to get some kind of mentor?


Absolutely - that's what we're here for! Some details as to what you have planned - MT/PMT/FT etc, closed, open - would be useful so we can know which group of Mentors in particular to point you towards. We're specialized. Like insects. If you can, you might then hop onto one of the various specialty discord servers or just go straight to our server.

how does one join an rp?

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 9:28 pm
by Catsfern
hey so I've never rp'd here before but it sounds fun and i want to try. Problem is I don,t really know how to get into one, if anyone has any suggestions or recommendations for rps that are open to join id much appreciate it

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:59 pm
by Kylarnatia
Catsfern wrote:hey so I've never rp'd here before but it sounds fun and i want to try. Problem is I don,t really know how to get into one, if anyone has any suggestions or recommendations for rps that are open to join id much appreciate it


If you find a roleplay that looks interesting to you and you want to join, send a telegram to the OP (that is to say, the person who posted the thread) and let them know you're interested. Alternatively, if the RP has an OOC (Out-of-Character) thread, you could post there. Either way, use it as an opportunity to introduce yourself and figure out how you can get involved. Then once you're ready, and the OP has given you the green light, you can get to posting!

If you want anymore help specifically in regards to how role-playing works, feel free to drop me a telegram anytime for advice. The stickies (the threads you see at the top of the forum page that are light-bulb shaped) are also worth a read.

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 5:02 am
by Maguzapach
I have started several RPs, but no one seems interested, what am I doing wrong?

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 5:52 am
by Rhodevus
Maguzapach wrote:I have started several RPs, but no one seems interested, what am I doing wrong?


if you link an example RP that you made, maybe we can look through it to see where you might have made some mistakes?

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 7:24 am
by Maguzapach
Rhodevus wrote:
Maguzapach wrote:I have started several RPs, but no one seems interested, what am I doing wrong?


if you link an example RP that you made, maybe we can look through it to see where you might have made some mistakes?


https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=463651
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=463652

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:42 am
by Kylarnatia
Maguzapach wrote:I have started several RPs, but no one seems interested, what am I doing wrong?


I've taken a look through your post history, and have given some of your stuff a read. I'll give some general feedback on what I've read.

  • An Empire is Declared: To be blunt, your 'rules' are pretty redundant: "Don't post like crap" being the biggest culprit - if you're going to act like that, people are just going to ignore you. If someone who posts does so in a way that you find could use development, work with them and encourage them, don't just shoot them down. Rule Three is a given and shouldn't need to be stated. Rule Four makes a little sense, but it's a bit strange to ask people to go through the diplomatic process of instituting sanctions when the premise of your roleplay is based upon a coup within a Republican system which the participants are supposed to believe has just instantly happened, with no build up.

    And that comes on to the problems with the narrative: None of your posts give me, the reader and possible participant, a reason to care or get invested in anything of what you're writing about. I get very little feel for any of the characters, their motivations or their thoughts besides "generic evil mastermind seizes power". Also, I'm baffled how the guy who is taking power outright admits that's what he's doing on public television and expects the public to back him: if you look at coups throughout history, that isn't how it works. Very often, the people orchestrating coups / seizures of power do so on the pretext of protecting the institutions as they stand, whether or not they actually remain that way. Furthermore, it's usually flaws within those systems that allow someone to exploit them and rise to power: if you want a perfect example of that within the context of a Republic becoming an Empire, look no further than Julius Caesar and the demise of the Roman Republic.

    I'd encourage you to maybe go back to the drawing board on this one, and start telling a fuller story, one where people can actually get involved and therefore invested in what's going on.
  • The Hugoland Annexation: Looking at the OOC thread, you're shooting yourself in the foot once again with your own rules: if you're making a conflict roleplay but then telling people that they'll be limited in the extent to which they can get involved in the conflict, what incentive is there to get involved? If you're not prepared to fight a war with someone, then maybe doing war roleplay isn't something you should be getting into. Also, there's honestly no point in application forms - just let people post an introduction and share their ideas on how to get involved, and if you like that then you can say yes or propose alternatives to getting involved.

    Also suffers for the same reason as the roleplay above: I'm given no reason to care about the fate of this NPC nation. I don't know it's ethos, it's people etc. - and this is all supposedly happening around the same time (or just after, I can't tell) the coup in your country is happening? Why did this story need to be told separately, when it could form part of the story about the fall of the Republic (i.e. the fall of liberal democracy and freedom) and the birth of the Empire? Especially if you're not interested in outside forces getting too heavily involved, it'd make more sense for it to be a sub-story of this wider story than being an entirely different thread.
  • Emperor seeks a Wife: How does him getting married secure his own legitimacy in a newly established Imperial system? Yet again, I know very little about this character other than his age and a list of arbitrary interests and ideals. Give us a full biography, and you could probably do more to tell us about how this will be beneficial to both parties, and particularly who he would be interested in marrying (e.g. is his plan to marry into a well-established royal family with a sizeable nation of their own to support him? Or perhaps he's looking for a woman who's particularly politically savy?)

    The app makes a little bit more sense here, since it's about characters and not nation-states as a whole, so I'll give you that.
  • Anti-Democratic League: What makes this organisation any different from the thousands of others like it that have been made in International Incidents over the years? Why join this one as opposed to one that's already well-established?

I don't mean to be harsh, but these are just my honest opinions on what I've seen, and I'm sharing them with you in the hopes that it'll make it clear what needs to be improved upon. In sum, while I can see some potential in the stories you're trying to tell, you're going to have to do more, because on the surface they're really no different than the thousands like them that we've seen before. Take more time to flesh out your nation and it's characters, perhaps by joining other roleplays first and establishing a bunch of IC and OOC relations that can tie into these stories and therefore make them more impactful and interesting for those involved. Read up on some historical examples of the things you're trying to achieve in the narrative and let them inspire you. Think of how these things take shape, not just for the instigators, but for the people who are affected by them, and what stories that could tell.

I hope this helps, and if you want to talk over it some more, I'm happy for us to send telegrams and work something out (though just to warn you I'm busy until the 10th, so I might be slow to respond at first).

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 10:47 pm
by Maguzapach
Kylarnatia wrote:
Maguzapach wrote:I have started several RPs, but no one seems interested, what am I doing wrong?


I've taken a look through your post history, and have given some of your stuff a read. I'll give some general feedback on what I've read.

  • An Empire is Declared: To be blunt, your 'rules' are pretty redundant: "Don't post like crap" being the biggest culprit - if you're going to act like that, people are just going to ignore you. If someone who posts does so in a way that you find could use development, work with them and encourage them, don't just shoot them down. Rule Three is a given and shouldn't need to be stated. Rule Four makes a little sense, but it's a bit strange to ask people to go through the diplomatic process of instituting sanctions when the premise of your roleplay is based upon a coup within a Republican system which the participants are supposed to believe has just instantly happened, with no build up.

    And that comes on to the problems with the narrative: None of your posts give me, the reader and possible participant, a reason to care or get invested in anything of what you're writing about. I get very little feel for any of the characters, their motivations or their thoughts besides "generic evil mastermind seizes power". Also, I'm baffled how the guy who is taking power outright admits that's what he's doing on public television and expects the public to back him: if you look at coups throughout history, that isn't how it works. Very often, the people orchestrating coups / seizures of power do so on the pretext of protecting the institutions as they stand, whether or not they actually remain that way. Furthermore, it's usually flaws within those systems that allow someone to exploit them and rise to power: if you want a perfect example of that within the context of a Republic becoming an Empire, look no further than Julius Caesar and the demise of the Roman Republic.

    I'd encourage you to maybe go back to the drawing board on this one, and start telling a fuller story, one where people can actually get involved and therefore invested in what's going on.
  • The Hugoland Annexation: Looking at the OOC thread, you're shooting yourself in the foot once again with your own rules: if you're making a conflict roleplay but then telling people that they'll be limited in the extent to which they can get involved in the conflict, what incentive is there to get involved? If you're not prepared to fight a war with someone, then maybe doing war roleplay isn't something you should be getting into. Also, there's honestly no point in application forms - just let people post an introduction and share their ideas on how to get involved, and if you like that then you can say yes or propose alternatives to getting involved.

    Also suffers for the same reason as the roleplay above: I'm given no reason to care about the fate of this NPC nation. I don't know it's ethos, it's people etc. - and this is all supposedly happening around the same time (or just after, I can't tell) the coup in your country is happening? Why did this story need to be told separately, when it could form part of the story about the fall of the Republic (i.e. the fall of liberal democracy and freedom) and the birth of the Empire? Especially if you're not interested in outside forces getting too heavily involved, it'd make more sense for it to be a sub-story of this wider story than being an entirely different thread.
  • Emperor seeks a Wife: How does him getting married secure his own legitimacy in a newly established Imperial system? Yet again, I know very little about this character other than his age and a list of arbitrary interests and ideals. Give us a full biography, and you could probably do more to tell us about how this will be beneficial to both parties, and particularly who he would be interested in marrying (e.g. is his plan to marry into a well-established royal family with a sizeable nation of their own to support him? Or perhaps he's looking for a woman who's particularly politically savy?)

    The app makes a little bit more sense here, since it's about characters and not nation-states as a whole, so I'll give you that.
  • Anti-Democratic League: What makes this organisation any different from the thousands of others like it that have been made in International Incidents over the years? Why join this one as opposed to one that's already well-established?

I don't mean to be harsh, but these are just my honest opinions on what I've seen, and I'm sharing them with you in the hopes that it'll make it clear what needs to be improved upon. In sum, while I can see some potential in the stories you're trying to tell, you're going to have to do more, because on the surface they're really no different than the thousands like them that we've seen before. Take more time to flesh out your nation and it's characters, perhaps by joining other roleplays first and establishing a bunch of IC and OOC relations that can tie into these stories and therefore make them more impactful and interesting for those involved. Read up on some historical examples of the things you're trying to achieve in the narrative and let them inspire you. Think of how these things take shape, not just for the instigators, but for the people who are affected by them, and what stories that could tell.

I hope this helps, and if you want to talk over it some more, I'm happy for us to send telegrams and work something out (though just to warn you I'm busy until the 10th, so I might be slow to respond at first).


Thank you, it seems my intentions weren't made clear. Can you suggest some good examples for me to read?

Also, can you recommend an antidemocratic alliance to me. (or really any alliance that would accept my nation)

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 4:55 am
by Kylarnatia
Maguzapach wrote:-snip-


I'll send you a telegram.

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:04 am
by Ella2 6
Kylarnatia wrote:-snip-

Oh boy. It's been a good long while since I've seen anything like this.

You wouldn't mind butching one of my posts/threads for me, would you? Basically, this is what I consider to be the best post I've ever written to date so getting an ego check would be kind of nice before I go around trumping myself as Wordsmith ExtraordinaireTM.

In particular, are there any major remarks on characters, character development and characterisation? Characters are still a part I'm struggling with, even after two years on NS.

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:01 pm
by Santheres
Ella2 6 wrote:
Kylarnatia wrote:-snip-

Oh boy. It's been a good long while since I've seen anything like this.

You wouldn't mind butching one of my posts/threads for me, would you? Basically, this is what I consider to be the best post I've ever written to date so getting an ego check would be kind of nice before I go around trumping myself as Wordsmith ExtraordinaireTM.

In particular, are there any major remarks on characters, character development and characterisation? Characters are still a part I'm struggling with, even after two years on NS.


It is a good post, though I found the report section toward the end fairly unnecessary. It doesn't give any important information, and that space could instead have been used to relate more of Kuzumi's actual thoughts. If you need to relay some quick RP info that players actually need for their own posts, then that makes sense; though from a narrative standpoint it's just a bit jarring.

Regarding your characters I definitely think you have a solid character voice for Kasumi - it fits and flows well. I feel like I could get a grasp on how she'd think about any given situation if I had a bit more content. She is a fully formed character that I could follow around and see myself in. That's great. I'm not sure about the other characters, though, because the voice doesn't really change for them, so they feel more like an extension of Kasumi than their own people. And while this voice is great for Kasumi, it falls more flat when it feels like it's just the voice. This mostly becomes an issue when you jump into one their heads for a paragraph, which could be jarring, but ends up not because I couldn't tell until the second read (focusing on analyzing the text) that you had switched perspective at all. While I'm saved the quick head jump, the actual content is thrown off because I can't tell whose head I'm in and default to Kasumi.

As a lengthy aside, you seem to be allergic to the word "said" - it appears that you went really far out of your way to avoid it, and I believe that is a mistake. A lot of your speech tags are redundant given the speech itself (ex. "X agreed" when their words are obviously agreeing), and in many cases you leave them out entirely when the action associated with the speech doesn't really have anything to do with it. There's a little bit of a mental jump involved then which is fine sometimes but not something to lean heavily into, and there's usually a slight double-take when there's redundancy (plus a little possibility that maybe you don't trust your audience); meanwhile, "said" is invisible. People process it without really thinking about it unless they're specifically trying to notice it. "Said" is your friend, no matter what some older grade school English teachers might have to say on the subject. Embrace "said" more - it's a wonderful word. Other tags associate emotions or emphasize certain traits in a way you might not mean, or that the text itself doesn't lend itself to (ex. using "the Sage exclaimed" when the speech was not terminated with an exclamation mark).

"Said" is awesome.

As for the ship numbers - they were so large and outside of any ability to visualize or place well into context that they did little for the text and if anything dampened any emotional weight that there might have been re. casualties. The losses were like in an RTS - lots sure, but whatever: they're just pixels.

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 7:55 am
by Ella2 6
Santheres wrote:
Ella2 6 wrote:-snip-
-snip-

Thank you so much for your feedback! I really appreciate the fact that you took the time to help me!

To be entirely honest, I wasn't even aware that I had jumped perspectives until you mentioned it just now. Well spotted! I'll definitely keep an eye out for that in the future! And yeah, I guess using a lot of words in place of 'said' felt a bit forced. I think I can recall feeling kind of forced even when I wrote it, but then that kind of went away after I went back and read it a few minutes before posting it in the middle of the night.

As for the report section at the end of the final section, it conveys some important details about the setting which the post's entire purpose was to establish. The large ship counts and the extensive amount of time it took for the entire battle to be fought from the beginning to the end is all part of the course of the Fifth Quadrant. In that regard, I believe that it (the report) has achieved its objective, though perhaps not as subtly as I ought to have done it.

However, I believe that the latter half of your criticism is valid. That last section really could have used a lot more Kasumi in there to the report. So I guess the section overall fell kind of flat because of that. I believe at the time I just burned out and didn't have anything more to write, so that was really rather unfortunate.

Ship-counts. Yes. You're right. That is a valid concern and a genuine problem with the Fifth Quadrant as a setting. I guess I'll have to mask that somehow without actually mentioning too many numbers or losing the sense of vastness and grandeur I've been trying so hard to build up. Do you have any suggestions for me in that regard?

Thanks again for your time! I'll be sure to keep these things in mind for the future!

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 8:33 am
by Santheres
Ella2 6 wrote:
Santheres wrote:-snip-
Ship-counts. Yes. You're right. That is a valid concern and a genuine problem with the Fifth Quadrant as a setting. I guess I'll have to mask that somehow without actually mentioning too many numbers or losing the sense of vastness and grandeur I've been trying so hard to build up. Do you have any suggestions for me in that regard?


I would probably treat it as though you're dealing with a smaller number of ships. Consider naval losses IRL - they mention the specific ship and even today not knowing the ship or anyone on it, you do feel it more. By referring to specifics, you lend more weight by making it seem more personal. Now, since you also have hundreds of thousands or millions of ships being lost, obviously you're not naming each individual one - but you could name an important ship that would be leading a battle group (whatever size of group you would like - if they're pretty regular, then everyone should more or less know your approximate total losses without you having to state whole numbers).

Assume you want to essentially say this: "We've lost 100,000 ships in the last hour."

This might be presented as (and credit to Lubyak for the bulk of this; I'm editing an example of his): "The Heracles, Iron Duke, and Bucephalus are lost along with their squadrons. Scylla has taken severe damage to her engine room and is withdrawing with her remaining support."

As it becomes better known to the reader that if a command ship is lost, so is the vast majority of their grouping, then if we know the group size, we can gauge the importance of the loss without you having to specify.

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:22 pm
by Ella2 6
Santheres wrote:
Ella2 6 wrote:-snip-
-snip-

I think I understand. I'll try to apply what I learnt from you to future posts. Maybe even fix up the post if I have the motivation to do so. Thanks again for your help! It really has been really valuable to me. :)

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:35 am
by Kuriyama
What would an economic downtown look like in a democratic socialist nation without a stock market? In capitalist countries, we generally rely on the stock market as a barometer of economic health, so I'm having trouble finding a way to describe it without that as a reference point. Not to mention that in a democratic socialist nation, government programs and regulation should ideally be helping cushion the fall. That's not always the case in real life, of course, but again, I'm having trouble finding ways to describe the downturn in a way that makes it a major event. For reference, this needs to be large enough to swing the election away from the incumbent socialist party.

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:58 am
by Bears Armed
Kuriyama wrote:What would an economic downtown look like in a democratic socialist nation without a stock market? In capitalist countries, we generally rely on the stock market as a barometer of economic health, so I'm having trouble finding a way to describe it without that as a reference point. Not to mention that in a democratic socialist nation, government programs and regulation should ideally be helping cushion the fall. That's not always the case in real life, of course, but again, I'm having trouble finding ways to describe the downturn in a way that makes it a major event. For reference, this needs to be large enough to swing the election away from the incumbent socialist party.

Introduction of Rationing?