NationStates

Olthenia wrote:Hello everyone.

So, an RP I'm in, and which I've fairly enjoyed for some time, has taken me into a part of the Nationstates experience I'm utterly unfamiliar with. The rules and guidelines for "regular" character interaction don't seem to apply here, and I'm stumped. Maybe even a little frightened.

Thing is, I'm headed into what's probably my very first war. From what I can tell, the other players aren't really writing in ways that make a lot of sense to me. For instance, most of them seem happy to state the results of their own actions on their opponents forces, then move the plot forward at their leisure and requests reactions to the results rather than the attempt. Others again even seem to regard the entire RP as an enormous board game where their posts constitute moves of individual pieces. They also seem content to state the results of their own actions and fiercely defend their reasoning with references to earlier posts. "I moved those troops into such and such a position. I stated I had artillery of this type, whereas you have artillery of that type. Clearly, my force is superior." They marshal their facts in neat little lines and beat everyone else to death with them.

I thought war and combat in roleplaying would be more an effort of interactive storytelling; one where cooperation was key rather than OOC shouting matches about ballistics, uniforms and how heavy your army's artillery is.

Is this simply a case of "naive old fool meets RP reality", or is this striking a chord with anyone?

What happens if I disagree with someone else's move? Can I choose to ignore someone if I feel they're being unreasonable? Or even politely decline to acknowledge them if I don't feel engaged by their writing?

When did my exercise in interactive storytelling become an exercise in number-waving slash tabletop wargaming?

These are very good questions. I will respond to each bit one at a time.

I thought war and combat in roleplaying would be more an effort of interactive storytelling; one where cooperation was key rather than OOC shouting matches about ballistics, uniforms and how heavy your army's artillery is.

Generally speaking, yes that's the case, although it depends on the thread OP. For practical purposes, the OP of the thread is "God," in the sense that he sets the rules for the thread, determines what is acceptable to it and what is not. Having said that, are you familiar with the OP and what their rules are for the thread? If you don't like the way the OP runs a thread, you can always not post in it (that's the best advice I can give you regarding RPs that rub you the wrong way. Nobody can force you to post).

Is this simply a case of "naive old fool meets RP reality", or is this striking a chord with anyone?

Oh I most assuredly agree with you, however like I said, it depends on what rules the OP has for his thread. If things are happening against what the OP said are the rules, than the offending parties could get kicked out of the thread and their material in said thread retconned and ignored.

What happens if I disagree with someone else's move? Can I choose to ignore someone if I feel they're being unreasonable? Or even politely decline to acknowledge them if I don't feel engaged by their writing?

A matter of common courtesy in roleplaying, be it on NS, or anything else, is that the defender states the losses. Nobody can tell you what your losses are...that would be considered Godmodding. So if someone dictates what happens to your stuff, you can disagree with it on the grounds that you as the defender state your losses. If they refuse to adhere to this, you can ignore them. In fact, you can technically ignore anyone at any time for any reason that you see fit. Just be careful with how you choose to ignore people, and how often. Frequent ignorers who do so for less than reasonable reasons can earn a bad reputation quick (and trust me, you don't want a bad reputation in NS RP).

When did my exercise in interactive storytelling become an exercise in number-waving slash tabletop wargaming?

Generally there are two schools of thought in NS RP. Competitive and Cooperative RP. The former is based around a system of winners and losers, usually with open-ended threads and the latter is a collaborative effort where the writers agree on what happens, how it happens, etc. Trust me, the two are like oil and water, and it's better to run in one camp or the other depending on your tastes and preferences. The important thing is to have fun, so try to do that with other people that enjoy the same things as you do!

Ghant wrote:(...)

Generally there are two schools of thought in NS RP. Competitive and Cooperative RP. The former is based around a system of winners and losers, usually with open-ended threads and the latter is a collaborative effort where the writers agree on what happens, how it happens, etc. Trust me, the two are like oil and water, and it's better to run in one camp or the other depending on your tastes and preferences. The important thing is to have fun, so try to do that with other people that enjoy the same things as you do!

Thanks for the timely response, Ghant. It's helped put things into perspective, and I'm much obliged.

The thing is, the Cooperative approach seems to have more or less been the name of the game. Until a few new players joined some weeks ago. These new folks tend to be disciples of the Competitive club, with the occasional bone of Cooperative RP thrown in. They'll use their facts, claims and numbers to beat you; but leave you a say in "how" it all goes down, which boot you kiss and what happens to you afterwards.

In the midst of all this, it would be nice if the OP had taken a clear stance on the issue. Unfortunately, the OP is a very young man who, while nice enough, is a tad shy of conflict. So far, that's left the more vocal and aggressive newcomers able to do their thing pretty much unopposed. Cooperate is exactly what they don't. They compete - and bury you with divisions, rangefinders, artillery calibers and fact-flavored hooliganism until you pack up and give in.

In the end, I suppose what worries me the most is that all my previous efforts at nation building, interaction and storytelling is going to be swept aside by a member of the Competitive RP club - not because this is a plot twist we've decided together, but because he says he has a bigger gun. I didn't come here to compete with anyone; I came here to write!

Olthenia, the problems you're discussing are pretty common throughout the NS Modern Tech community, unfortunately.

A lot of people write in the Modern Tech "scene" for the competitiveness of winning wars and battles to claim that they're the best at it. Their main goal on NationStates is to beat everyone that challenges them and do so by godmodding and metagaming their way into success. It's unfortunate, but it is preventable. If the OP of the thread doesn't want to take action, I'd be happy to post in the thread as a Mentor to try and help alleviate some of your concerns and hopefully get them to realize that they're being manipulative in the way they're writing.

Ultimately, you have the right mindset. NationStates is, always, about the writing, and not about competitive RP. Cooperative RP is much more enjoyable for everyone, in my opinion, and leads to less drama. That being said, do remember that you retain the right to not RP with this group of people, and ignore whatever they try to do. That also being said, you can't use this to your advantage.

As an example, if they say they've mobilized a million troops or something or have told you how many men you've lost in an engagement, that's simply blatant godmodding. You do not have to go along with it. In any case, I'm happy to help if you so wish - feel free to TG me or any of the other Mentors at any time.

Olthenia wrote:Thanks for the timely response, Ghant. It's helped put things into perspective, and I'm much obliged.

The thing is, the Cooperative approach seems to have more or less been the name of the game. Until a few new players joined some weeks ago. These new folks tend to be disciples of the Competitive club, with the occasional bone of Cooperative RP thrown in. They'll use their facts, claims and numbers to beat you; but leave you a say in "how" it all goes down, which boot you kiss and what happens to you afterwards.

In the midst of all this, it would be nice if the OP had taken a clear stance on the issue. Unfortunately, the OP is a very young man who, while nice enough, is a tad shy of conflict. So far, that's left the more vocal and aggressive newcomers able to do their thing pretty much unopposed. Cooperate is exactly what they don't. They compete - and bury you with divisions, rangefinders, artillery calibers and fact-flavored hooliganism until you pack up and give in.

In the end, I suppose what worries me the most is that all my previous efforts at nation building, interaction and storytelling is going to be swept aside by a member of the Competitive RP club - not because this is a plot twist we've decided together, but because he says he has a bigger gun. I didn't come here to compete with anyone; I came here to write!

You're welcome! I'm glad I could help you mate. As Aquitayne said, MT RP on NS has a very strong steak of competitive roleplaying styles, which you will find among players that want to "win" above most other facets of the game, and revel in their status as a "powerful" nation.

But here's what these people fail to understand. A nation is only as powerful, or as successful as other players allow it to be. If people don't recognize that power, or those victories, is it really so? Nope.

This sort of discussion has been going on for years, ever since the first roleplaying mediums came out. I first started roleplaying in 1996, playing games like Dungeons and Dragons, Star Wars RPG, Middle-Earth Roleplaying (MERP), etc. Even back then this sort of thing was an issue. There was a game my friends and I used to play back in the mid-nineties (the good ol days) called Enforcers. It was a fun table-top game that basically consisted of creating and roleplaying your own superheroes in a special campaign setting.

Right away, there were two types of players. Those who enjoyed the storytelling aspect of the game, that created interesting and compelling superheroes with complex backgrounds, histories and stories, and played the game like an unfolding comic book. Then there were those players that created characters and built them merely as a means of gaming the system. These characters were basically a series of numbers and stats, they were pretty overpowered and other aspects of their game seemed pretty weak. So as you can see, NationStates isn't the first roleplaying medium to experience these differences of style.

These facts, claims and numbers don't mean squat if people don't acknowledge their validity. In fact, when people start doing that with me, it's a good sign that they're not into the game for the same reasons I am. I don't really even consider NS RP a "game," for me it's an exercise in creative writing, and as long as whatever I wrote is considered "good" by the people that read it, than I consider that a "victory," and for me, that's a "win."

Aquitayne and the other mentors are great roleplayers with a lot of experience under their belt and can help you and others in your predicament. I highly recommend taking advantage of whatever knowledge, wisdom and insight they have to offer, it can be very helpful. In addition, please feel free to send me a TG if you feel compelled to. After all, twenty years strong of roleplaying experience is too much to not put to good use

Question, where would you put a RP about a belligerent heresy in your state going all out revolution?

New Communist and Socialist Unions wrote:Question, where would you put a RP about a belligerent heresy in your state going all out revolution?

My suggestion would be International Incidents.

Shazbotdom wrote:

New Communist and Socialist Unions wrote:Question, where would you put a RP about a belligerent heresy in your state going all out revolution?

My suggestion would be International Incidents.

As I thought, II is perfect for this.

Aquitayne wrote:Olthenia, the problems you're discussing are pretty common throughout the NS Modern Tech community, unfortunately.

(...)

In any case, I'm happy to help if you so wish - feel free to TG me or any of the other Mentors at any time.

Ghant wrote:You're welcome! (...)

Aquitayne and the other mentors are great roleplayers with a lot of experience under their belt and can help you and others in your predicament. I highly recommend taking advantage of whatever knowledge, wisdom and insight they have to offer, it can be very helpful. In addition, please feel free to send me a TG if you feel compelled to. After all, twenty years strong of roleplaying experience is too much to not put to good use

Sound advice and generous offers. Aquitayne, Ghant - thank you both.

Olthenia wrote:

Aquitayne wrote:Olthenia, the problems you're discussing are pretty common throughout the NS Modern Tech community, unfortunately.

(...)

In any case, I'm happy to help if you so wish - feel free to TG me or any of the other Mentors at any time.

Ghant wrote:You're welcome! (...)

Aquitayne and the other mentors are great roleplayers with a lot of experience under their belt and can help you and others in your predicament. I highly recommend taking advantage of whatever knowledge, wisdom and insight they have to offer, it can be very helpful. In addition, please feel free to send me a TG if you feel compelled to. After all, twenty years strong of roleplaying experience is too much to not put to good use

Sound advice and generous offers. Aquitayne, Ghant - thank you both.

Some new stuff by the way at this RP you're referencing.

New Communist and Socialist Unions wrote:Question, where would you put a RP about a belligerent heresy in your state going all out revolution?

The general rule of thumb is that if other nations would be aware of what's going on and may be inclined to react or respond in some way, it goes in II. If not, then the NationStates forum.

What is II? What regions are great for fantasy nation RPs? What about regions for modern nation RPs? What is the difference between II and NationStates Forums if there is one?

Scientific Mandate wrote:What is II? What regions are great for fantasy nation RPs? What about regions for modern nation RPs? What is the difference between II and NationStates Forums if there is one?

II and NS have subtle differences. Usually, people say that if your thread involves other nations then it's for II; if it's more about something happening in your nation that isn't necessarily an 'international incident,' then it belongs in NS. In reality, you post where your circle of RPers post. Some people post in both.

Are you a hard MTer (reality is paramount) or a soft MTer (reality can take a backset in favor of the story)? If you fall into the former category, you can look at regions like Maredoratica, Astyria, Cornellia, and Pardes. If you fall into the latter category, take a look at Gholgoth, Nova, and Greater Dienstad. Full transparency, I'm the founder of the latter. I will say that we are (relatively) super active, but we flow between 'soft MT' and straight-up PMT, so you may be looking for something more along the lines of Maredoratica, Astyria, or Pardes.

I'm sure others can name off other regions to look into. Do your research. Read some of the ongoing RPs, see if they're active, and see how the players handle themselves in the out of character threads, and then choose the region that fits your interests and personality the best. And don't be afraid to jump around if you think you'd be better off in another region. You should never feel tied down into a region, unless you have canon there or something that anchors you to a world.

Regarding fantasy RPs, I don't know much about them on NS. I know that some regions sometimes do fantasy or past-tech RPs, but these are more by ear, rather than permanent setting. There's a lot of fantasy RPing in the Portal to the Multiverse, but those RPs are non-NS canon. I will ping someone to give you a better answer here.

Best way to win a two side war in a modern RP?

Animie wrote:Best way to win a two side war in a modern RP?

By coming up with win-win scenarios where both players get something out of the ending. There's nothing objective in this game to say anyone has won, so one player has to accept losing or not winning. Either you're RPing with a very, very good sport, or you need to compromise with who you are RPing with to get an outcome that fits both players' interests.

I'll give you an example. I'm currently at war with The Scandinvans. It's a big war with a lot at stake, and so to make sure that the RP goes smoothly we are in constant communication and we always discuss where we want to take the RP, what kind of outcomes we'd be okay with RPing, and from there find a compromise where we get something that we were looking for out of the RP.

The great thing about NS is that your imagination is the limit, and so wars don't have to be zero-sum. Elements of them can be RPd as zero-sum (because RL wars tend to be zero-sum), but you can also compromise somehow on NS. I'll give you another example. One of my territories is being invaded by UWO. It's a war UWO may lose. To compromise with him, I've agreed to future RPs where he can earn some territory elsewhere, and we have a very smooth RP going on thanks to that.

The Macabees wrote:

Animie wrote:Best way to win a two side war in a modern RP?

By coming up with win-win scenarios where both players get something out of the ending. There's nothing objective in this game to say anyone has won, so one player has to accept losing or not winning. Either you're RPing with a very, very good sport, or you need to compromise with who you are RPing with to get an outcome that fits both players' interests.

I'll give you an example. I'm currently at war with The Scandinvans. It's a big war with a lot at stake, and so to make sure that the RP goes smoothly we are in constant communication and we always discuss where we want to take the RP, what kind of outcomes we'd be okay with RPing, and from there find a compromise where we get something that we were looking for out of the RP.

The great thing about NS is that your imagination is the limit, and so wars don't have to be zero-sum. Elements of them can be RPd as zero-sum (because RL wars tend to be zero-sum), but you can also compromise somehow on NS. I'll give you another example. One of my territories is being invaded by UWO. It's a war UWO may lose. To compromise with him, I've agreed to future RPs where he can earn some territory elsewhere, and we have a very smooth RP going on thanks to that.

What if the person doesn't want compromise and just wants to take everything?

Animie wrote:

The Macabees wrote:
By coming up with win-win scenarios where both players get something out of the ending. There's nothing objective in this game to say anyone has won, so one player has to accept losing or not winning. Either you're RPing with a very, very good sport, or you need to compromise with who you are RPing with to get an outcome that fits both players' interests.

I'll give you an example. I'm currently at war with The Scandinvans. It's a big war with a lot at stake, and so to make sure that the RP goes smoothly we are in constant communication and we always discuss where we want to take the RP, what kind of outcomes we'd be okay with RPing, and from there find a compromise where we get something that we were looking for out of the RP.

The great thing about NS is that your imagination is the limit, and so wars don't have to be zero-sum. Elements of them can be RPd as zero-sum (because RL wars tend to be zero-sum), but you can also compromise somehow on NS. I'll give you another example. One of my territories is being invaded by UWO. It's a war UWO may lose. To compromise with him, I've agreed to future RPs where he can earn some territory elsewhere, and we have a very smooth RP going on thanks to that.

What if the person doesn't want compromise and just wants to take everything?

Then consider that you do not have to RP with anyone you don't want to RP with, and there's nothing they can do about it. The alternative is "just deal with it" but I really can't recommend that at all.

The United Dominion wrote:

Animie wrote:What if the person doesn't want compromise and just wants to take everything?

Then consider that you do not have to RP with anyone you don't want to RP with, and there's nothing they can do about it. The alternative is "just deal with it" but I really can't recommend that at all.

Okay thanks for the help i am going to try to solve this.

Animie wrote:What if the person doesn't want compromise and just wants to take everything?

Someone once told me, "You can sell anything, you just have to explain the value of the sale."

If you want to pursue the RP, but you're not getting what you want out of it, you're going to have to negotiate with the other player. Maybe if you frame the value of the compromise in the right way, he/she will be more likely to accept it.

If you're at the point where this person is just being unreasonable, then you might want to temporarily/permanently put the RP on hold. If you put the RP temporarily on hold, that might be one way to communicate the loss of value in not compromising with you.

Scientific Mandate wrote:What is II? What regions are great for fantasy nation RPs? What about regions for modern nation RPs? What is the difference between II and NationStates Forums if there is one?

Macabees answered most of these questions, but for fantasy regions (commonly known as FanT, short for Fantasy Tech), Mystria is a good place to check out.

Animie wrote:What if the person doesn't want compromise and just wants to take everything?

I want to draw particular attention the word "take" in this sentence. Roleplay by it's very nature involves creative material, designed by the player. In an OOC context, another player cannot "take" anything that isn't "given" to them by another player, as that violates the individuals creative material. No player can force another into roleplaying with them, and certainly cannot just take what they have, because there is no force OOCly compelling them to satisfy the demand. So basically, if one wants to "take" everything, then they need to find people willing to "give" what they have to them.

I forgot what my KBP is for my national team. I there any place where I could recover that?

Heyo,

I am interested in creating an interest thread for a Fullmetal Alchemist RP that I've been cooking up, I'm basically wanting to know how to do the nuts and bolts of creating threads, maintaining it, and any/all possible Co-OPs.

Hope to hear from you soon!

Great Palkia wrote:I forgot what my KBP is for my national team. I there any place where I could recover that?

The link to World Cup rankings is in the signature of the World Cup Signups account, which I believe is what you're looking for.

Great Palkia wrote:I forgot what my KBP is for my national team. I there any place where I could recover that?

That question is better suited for this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=612

I'll forward your question.

Danceria wrote:Heyo,

I am interested in creating an interest thread for a Fullmetal Alchemist RP that I've been cooking up, I'm basically wanting to know how to do the nuts and bolts of creating threads, maintaining it, and any/all possible Co-OPs.

Hope to hear from you soon!

Hello! I will try to help you out with this. Basically, since it's an existing RL franchise, the place you'd want to put it would be P2M (Portal to the Multiverse), and you will want to start with an OOC thread. The OOC thread can do several things for you, such as:

• Be a place where interested players can signup for the RP.
• Serve as a hub of discussion about the thread, and where questions, comments and concerns can be raised.
• Where you can provide the rules of the thread and guidelines.

You should start off with this OOC thread and leave it up for at least a week, maybe two, before you launch the IC thread. That way, you can gather signups and gain some traction before you start the thread so that when you do, you can ideally start with the ball already rolling.

As far as maintaining it, it helps if you already have a story in mind, one that is flexible enough to allow participation from other players. Don't get discouraged if it starts off slow or slows down, that's pretty normal, and as long as you have direction for your thread, you can continue to post in order to advance the story towards whatever conclusion you had in mind. So as far as maintaining it, just be sure to keep posting.

If you encounter any trouble from other players, you can always refer them to the rules and guidelines that you posted in the OOC thread. If they still continue to cause trouble, you can consider kicking them out of the RP, which may involve retconning their involvement from the thread, ignoring those and any future posts, and alerting moderation if they continue to post in the thread even after you informed them that they are no longer welcome to post in it.

As far as Co-OPs, usually one or two at most, and these should be people that can help you advance the story in the event that you get busy and are suddenly unable to post, and people that you trust enough with the narrative to advance it with your initial vision for the story in mind.

Hope that helps. Feel free to post in here again if you need any more help, or feel free to send me a TG if you'd like any more help from me specifically!