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by Lamoni » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:59 am
Questers wrote:Don't make up your own equipment if the result is you "guess" a helicopter has mach 1 speed. Just use things from real life.
Licana on the M-21A2 MBT: "Well, it is one of the most badass tanks on NS."
Vortiaganica: Lamoni I understand fully, of course. The two (Lamoni & Lyras) are more inseparable than the Clinton family and politics.
Triplebaconation: Lamoni commands a quiet respect that carries its own authority. He is the Mandela of NS.

by Questers » Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:47 am
I'm just telling you what happens, I'm not making any kind of normative judgment. Besides, not win "an argument", even intentionally.Xiscapia wrote:Of course. But I take issue with the kind of statement that says that telling a story on NS has to be done through some kind of underhanded coercion to win an argument. That's not the NS that I personally know.
The answer to your (I think) rhetorical question lies within the question itself. In fact you answered it so perfectly that I'm not sure I can reply.Xiscapia wrote:I just wanted to touch on this (better late than never eh?). This might be true to a certain extent for war RPs and the like. But you can RP so, so much more in your nation than just fleets and armies, and a lot of players don't seem to consider the possibilities for making real, interesting stories that don't involve a ton of people shooting at each other. For example, a character RP where a guy from nation X falls in love with a girl from nation Y. How does one "win" or even "be right" in a game like that? At that level there's very little that's technical or needing research. It's down to raw emotion, dialogue and how well you can RP a character convincingly.
Succintly put.Delmonte wrote:Yeah, that's clearly true. But we all know who he's referring to. There are nations for whom it is unacceptable to lose a fight and they get away with it because of their status in NationStates while smaller, newer nations get called out on it. And if a multitude of these nations were to be concentrated in one region, well... That would just be convenient, wouldn't it?

by Delmonte » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:06 am
Questers wrote:I'm just telling you what happens, I'm not making any kind of normative judgment. Besides, not win "an argument", even intentionally.Xiscapia wrote:Of course. But I take issue with the kind of statement that says that telling a story on NS has to be done through some kind of underhanded coercion to win an argument. That's not the NS that I personally know.The answer to your (I think) rhetorical question lies within the question itself. In fact you answered it so perfectly that I'm not sure I can reply.Xiscapia wrote:I just wanted to touch on this (better late than never eh?). This might be true to a certain extent for war RPs and the like. But you can RP so, so much more in your nation than just fleets and armies, and a lot of players don't seem to consider the possibilities for making real, interesting stories that don't involve a ton of people shooting at each other. For example, a character RP where a guy from nation X falls in love with a girl from nation Y. How does one "win" or even "be right" in a game like that? At that level there's very little that's technical or needing research. It's down to raw emotion, dialogue and how well you can RP a character convincingly.
If you notice, my post wasn't about who wins, or who loses. It was only about your reputation as a player. Two people can both write about anything—what defines their reputation and their OOC buying power (which exists: look at the Best II Roleplayer series) is how good they are at it. In other words, how persuasive they are. In the example provide, alright, let's say that you write a particularly heart-wrenching series of posts that are widely read and applauded. You have actually won. You may not think you have, you may not have intended to, you may not even have thought about it at all. At the level of analysis of inter-player relations, what you have basically done is provided a reason for people to think you are good.
And suppose somebody else writes a ten thousand word tank writeup, well, they've done the same thing, at that level, despite the content being completely different. What I was saying is that your ability to influence people in the OOC realm directly influences both your OOC and your IC standing. How you choose to influence them isn't that important, from this perspective.
What I was saying is that the trend now is not to assume that people are capable of things IC only because of their OOC achievements, although there's still a significant amount of that that goes on.
The Batorys wrote:The Delmontese like money, yeah, but they also like to throw down.
[b][color=#0000FF][background=red]United in Opposition to [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=303025]Liberate Haven[/url][/background][/color][/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]
by Xiscapia » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:12 am
Questers wrote:I'm just telling you what happens, I'm not making any kind of normative judgment. Besides, not win "an argument", even intentionally.Xiscapia wrote:Of course. But I take issue with the kind of statement that says that telling a story on NS has to be done through some kind of underhanded coercion to win an argument. That's not the NS that I personally know.
Questers wrote:The answer to your (I think) rhetorical question lies within the question itself. In fact you answered it so perfectly that I'm not sure I can reply.Xiscapia wrote:I just wanted to touch on this (better late than never eh?). This might be true to a certain extent for war RPs and the like. But you can RP so, so much more in your nation than just fleets and armies, and a lot of players don't seem to consider the possibilities for making real, interesting stories that don't involve a ton of people shooting at each other. For example, a character RP where a guy from nation X falls in love with a girl from nation Y. How does one "win" or even "be right" in a game like that? At that level there's very little that's technical or needing research. It's down to raw emotion, dialogue and how well you can RP a character convincingly.
If you notice, my post wasn't about who wins, or who loses. It was only about your reputation as a player. Two people can both write about anything—what defines their reputation and their OOC buying power (which exists: look at the Best II Roleplayer series) is how good they are at it. In other words, how persuasive they are. In the example provide, alright, let's say that you write a particularly heart-wrenching series of posts that are widely read and applauded. You have actually won. You may not think you have, you may not have intended to, you may not even have thought about it at all. At the level of analysis of inter-player relations, what you have basically done is provided a reason for people to think you are good.
And suppose somebody else writes a ten thousand word tank writeup, well, they've done the same thing, at that level, despite the content being completely different. What I was saying is that your ability to influence people in the OOC realm directly influences both your OOC and your IC standing. How you choose to influence them isn't that important, from this perspective.
What I was saying is that the trend now is not to assume that people are capable of things IC only because of their OOC achievements, although there's still a significant amount of that that goes on.

by Saltesia » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:01 pm

by Constaniana » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:36 pm
Saltesia wrote:I'm still relatively new here, and haven't browsed this entire thread, so forgive me if this has been asked before.
What are the rules on involving other nations? Do you have to telegram them first asking them before you involve them in any scenario or war, or can you just start writing and pick a nation?
Ameriganastan wrote:I work hard to think of those ludicrous Eric adventure stories, but I don't think I'd have come up with rescuing a three armed alchemist from goblin-monkeys in a million years.
Kudos.

by Saltesia » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:52 pm
Constaniana wrote:Saltesia wrote:I'm still relatively new here, and haven't browsed this entire thread, so forgive me if this has been asked before.
What are the rules on involving other nations? Do you have to telegram them first asking them before you involve them in any scenario or war, or can you just start writing and pick a nation?
You have to ask them to declare war on you, otherwise they'd be likely to ignore it. If you're doing it for reasons like acquiring a colony then you could simply write up NPC nations for that, like I did.
)
by Tiami » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:54 pm

by Delmonte » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:54 pm
The Batorys wrote:The Delmontese like money, yeah, but they also like to throw down.
[b][color=#0000FF][background=red]United in Opposition to [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=303025]Liberate Haven[/url][/background][/color][/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]
by Rich and Corporations » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:27 pm
Lamoni wrote:Questers wrote:Don't make up your own equipment if the result is you "guess" a helicopter has mach 1 speed. Just use things from real life.
Agreed. I don't want to sound elitist, but those of us who post quality designs on NSD, as well as GE&T, have spent long periods of time (sometimes months or years) doing the required research that would enable them to create such designs.
Corporate Confederacy DEFENSE ALERT LEVEL PEACE ▓ Factbook [url=iiwiki.com/wiki/Corporate_Confederacy]Wiki Article[/url] | Neptonia |

by The Soviet Russian Empire » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:29 pm

by SquareDisc City » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:29 pm
If you aren't particularly fussed about who the other nation is, you could also start a sign-up thread explaining the sort of roles you want people to RP. For example if you wanted to do a state assassination, you might need one person to RP the target individual and the nation they're a citizen of, and then another person whose nation the target resides in when the assassination attempt happens.Constaniana wrote:Saltesia wrote:I'm still relatively new here, and haven't browsed this entire thread, so forgive me if this has been asked before.
What are the rules on involving other nations? Do you have to telegram them first asking them before you involve them in any scenario or war, or can you just start writing and pick a nation?
You have to ask them to declare war on you, otherwise they'd be likely to ignore it. If you're doing it for reasons like acquiring a colony then you could simply write up NPC nations for that, like I did.

by Tiami » Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:41 pm
The Soviet Russian Empire wrote:Today's Updates to my factbook thread.

by Lubyak » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:25 pm
The Soviet Russian Empire wrote:Today's Updates to my factbook thread.
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by Oppressorion » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:36 am

by Jogka » Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:03 am
Oppressorion wrote:I know that there are dedicated threads for MT military questions and FT, but is there anywhere I can ask about economics? Specifically, how (or if) my nation's economic system could work, and possible downsides to it?
In case the answer turns out to be 'here', I'll put it here:My nation operates what you could call a 'hand in glove' market. On the surface, it's a mixed market like in RL: shops on the street are owned privately, and compete with each other for customers. But if you go deeper than that, you'll see it's controlled by the government. They own all means of production, and through that have an enormous amount of power.
Take bread, for example. IRL wheat is sold to bakeries, who sell it to shops, who sell it to customers, each taking a percentage for profit. Not so here, where both bakeries and wheat farms are owned by the government, who then contract with various independent retailers around the city through a central distribution office. Essentially, instead of the shops buying bread, the gov. pays them to sell it for them.
Theoretically, this system was set up so that in the event of disaster, supplies could be distributed quickly to the general public as the suppliers are already owned by them. In addition, it means that all workers involved can be paid fairly.

by Oppressorion » Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:29 am
Jogka wrote:Since in your example the government has both a wheat and bread monopoly, and is the government, they basically can decide the price of bread, and the wages of farmers and bakers. So one question is how good is the government at regulating itself?
IC: True, bread production isn't as high as other, more liberal nations. But what would you have us do? Trust people? Give them their own means of production? Pah!Also, if there is no profit motive or competition, the bread industry will probably be less innovative and and bad at cost cutting. If there is a profit motive, the industry would abuse its monopoly.
Why this system more than others?Also, there would be diseconomies of scale.
I was talking about your bog standard supermarket bread, yes. For cafés and small bakeries, I imagine that they rent their equipment from the government, who take possession of goods produced from such and contract with them for sale.With bread it probably wouldn't be a big deal, although I think it would make more sense for the bread to be sold by the baker, instead of adding another middleman. That is the government would run wheat farms and flour mills, but the bread would be baked and sold by private businesses. This way you would have fresh bread, baked on location. Unless all your people just eat sliced bread off the shelf of the supermarket.

by Jogka » Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:09 am
Oppressorion wrote:Jogka wrote:Since in your example the government has both a wheat and bread monopoly, and is the government, they basically can decide the price of bread, and the wages of farmers and bakers. So one question is how good is the government at regulating itself?
My nation is a very introverted (and paranoid) nation. A huge amount of resources are devoted to maintaining integrity and preventing corruption, right up to mental conditioning. This may be why most of the population is still on the bread diet.IC: True, bread production isn't as high as other, more liberal nations. But what would you have us do? Trust people? Give them their own means of production? Pah!Also, if there is no profit motive or competition, the bread industry will probably be less innovative and and bad at cost cutting. If there is a profit motive, the industry would abuse its monopoly.Why this system more than others?Also, there would be diseconomies of scale.I was talking about your bog standard supermarket bread, yes. For cafés and small bakeries, I imagine that they rent their equipment from the government, who take possession of goods produced from such and contract with them for sale.With bread it probably wouldn't be a big deal, although I think it would make more sense for the bread to be sold by the baker, instead of adding another middleman. That is the government would run wheat farms and flour mills, but the bread would be baked and sold by private businesses. This way you would have fresh bread, baked on location. Unless all your people just eat sliced bread off the shelf of the supermarket.

by Questers » Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:40 am

by Oppressorion » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:11 am
Questers wrote:Suppose some new economic good is created, let's say, microprocessors. Since the state is the total arbiter of economic conditions, how do you address new technology? How are prices set for things unfamiliar? If you are naturally paranoid and untrusting, is it not safe to say that there will be a lag in the acceptance of advanced technological processes?

by Alae Essato » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:33 am


by Oppressorion » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:49 am

by Maltropia » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:23 am

by Jenrak » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:53 pm
Oppressorion wrote:My nation operates what you could call a 'hand in glove' market. On the surface, it's a mixed market like in RL: shops on the street are owned privately, and compete with each other for customers. But if you go deeper than that, you'll see it's controlled by the government. You're going to need to define how deep private versus public ownership is. If shops on the street are owned privately, then are you referring to the ability to sell such products? Please clarify. They own all means of production, and through that have an enormous amount of power. What do you mean in terms of the means of production? The means of production is a pretty antiquated term nowadays, and there's so many different actors within a given network that simplified Marxist terminology isn't going to provide image. Again, can you clarify?
Take bread, for example. IRL wheat is sold to bakeries, who sell it to shops, who sell it to customers, each taking a percentage for profit. Not so here, where both bakeries and wheat farms are owned by the government, who then contract with various independent retailers Does that means that all material and resources are controlled and constructed by the government? How do you differentiate between primary, secondary, and tertiary industries? What happens if an independent contractor from outside enters the market? Is that allowed, or would they have to work through the government? What about grey and black markets? around the city through a central distribution office. Essentially, instead of the shops buying bread, the gov. pays them to sell it for them. What about goods that the government would have difficulty procuring? Say, for example, rare earth metals. If you had a natural shortage or comparative disadvantage of rare earth metals and can only get it from somewhere else, what role would the government play, if at all?
Theoretically, this system was set up so that in the event of disaster, What sort of disaster? There are a variety of disasters that affect economies in different ways. Please clarify. supplies could be distributed quickly to the general public as the suppliers are already owned by them By the government, you mean. There are two major problems with this assumption. First, you're assuming that there is a plentiful amount of given resources at any given time. This is usually not the case in a good economic climate, and even worse in a very bad economic climate, especially one that is predicated by something sudden like a disaster. The scarcity that comes about means that you have to either use what you have to deal with the situation by yourself (which, depending on the type of disaster, may be catastrophic), or you need to open borders, allowing inbound goods that are not controlled by the government. How does the government account for something like that? The second problem is that you're assuming the government is more efficient than the private in allocating goods. That may not always be the case. In many instances that is true, yes, because the government has the supreme command of territory because of a military force, but it's still beholden to massive redundancies, inefficiencies, and corruption. This problem may be even more pronounced when you consider that governmental relief must account for a lack of altruistic actors, whereas private actors may not (for example, donation organizations in a crisis can field more volunteers with less corruption per unit because that's their shtick. Governmental relief doesn't have that sort of luxury, because it's built into the administration). In addition, it means that all workers involved can be paid fairly. Not necessarily. You're imposing a very simplistic mechanic on payment. For a better understanding of payment, you need to account for three major things: base versus relative costs and benefits, sectoral bargaining, and financial freedom. Base versus relative cost means that for an organization, when you put X amount of money into an organization, you gain Y amount of utility or goods. Some organizations benefit from greater utility or production compared to others with the same fixed costs. This allows more money to be allocated to other things, such as pay. The private sector allows multiple actors to experience multiple amounts of X > Y, with the ones that best maximize the relationship to grow the best. You're assuming that the X > Y relationship for the government is already optimal. There's nothing that implies that to be true. Please account for that.
Sectoral bargaining are unions. The government needs to address unions, whether formal or informal. This is even more important when you consider the immense reach of your government in the private sector as well as the fact that you're implying that one entire sector (tertiary) is private, where the others are not. What happens is the tertiary sector becomes to start bargaining against the government? Does it have an answer for something like that? In primary and secondary dominant locations (such as rural farms) that may not be an issue, but what about heavy financial and technology sectors, that don't rely on too much physical product? How does the government prevent monopolistic or monopsonistic practices from popping up?
Financial freedom is tied to the second one. You don't mention finances, which are incredibly important because they can determine not only how much eat unit of physical product is worth (and thereby the government's strength in bargaining as a bearer of primary goods), but also what happens when your sales are private. I'm assuming that since your tertiary sector is private, people will need loans to rent out stores or purchase licenses to sell or to purchase product to sell. That means that banks will have to loan them out. Do you have a private or a public reserve? How do you account for something like capital? Please clarify.
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