RPing Questions? Ask Here!

[New Tyran]

Isn't there a bit of a catch 22 here?

Yes. I completely agree. As a new player I found/find it difficult to get into quality RP's because I did not already have quality RP's under my belt/wasn't friends with the right people OOC. I essentially just had to invent excuses to write in BAD RP's so I could then point to my writing and say "Fuck you, I can write." It's the same vicious cycle as "You can't get a job because you don't have experience." and it's maddening. Then there's the assholes who refuse to write with me until I'm two or three years old. The more I immerse myself the more I come to realize that the NS community is rather aristocratic. There's a certain group of players that are "the best" (by popular consideration, of course) and you'll never be as good as them, even if some of them now write only very rarely. And every once in a while, for a split second, that makes me angry. Then I realize that I don't care because I'm here to write and as long as I'm doing that, I'm happy.

Plus, the way that the NationStates community has developed is actually rather interesting from a sociological point of view. You have the different cliques of forae and the cliques within the cliques and the echelons within the cliques within the cliques. In the Gameplay community, things are very defined and hierarchical. There are two sides, you're either on one or the other. And if you're on one of those sides you either give orders or follow them. In the Generalite community, it's almost anarchy where the hierarchy is determined by who is wittiest and, in many cases, holds the popular viewpoint. The Multiverse community's hierarchy is determined by whoever's flag is coolest. And, most interesting I think, is the roleplaying community's development. On the surface, players achieve their status through dedication and writing ability. But it's an embarrassingly poorly kept secret that this is far from the case. NationStates would make a fascinating societal experiment because, really, over the years it's been in existence, it has evolved its own rules and nature as a society does. And it's very interesting to see how a society of like minded individuals, here to write or argue or what have you, develop their society. So even though the system might be unfair, I'm kind of okay with that because it's so goddamn interesting!

/ramble

In any event, I'm always looking to start another RP. If you want to look at my posts, you'll see that they're high quality because I would never submit anything that isn't.

Ostensibly Yours,
Delmonte

EDIT: I looked at your posts, they're good. Work on length and minor spelling errors. Length because nobody will take a post seriously if it's not at least six paragraphs (just the way it is) and spelling because it's very very difficult to immerse yourself in writing if there are errors. I'd still be interested in writing with you.

Please be my damn RP mentor...

[OrigamiMaster]

The Multiverse community's hierarchy is determined by whoever's flag is coolest.

No, it's who is on the most. Just saying. But I get your point.

[Constaniana]

The Multiverse community's hierarchy is determined by whoever's flag is coolest.

No, it's who is on the most. Just saying. But I get your point.

Actually it's by how many dick jokes you can tell, which is why Elfen High is at the top. *nods*

[Kylarnatia]

Guys, although it is a interesting discussion, this thread isn't for discussing the nature of the Multiverse forum. ;)

[Graznovia]

If you play non-capped population any country is virtually impossible to invade without a sizeable land border after a certain size, so the most important thing is to stay on good terms with your neighbours.

In NS, most nations are islands, aren't they?
Also, it's possible for a nation to invade another nation 15,000 km or more away: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_downfall
With NS-scale technology, it's entirely possible for it to occur.

As long as nearby islands are assaulted and taken over first.

Naturally I doubt many nations have nearby island chains, even though every real nation of some size and stature has some islands nearby.

IMO when militaries are scaled up to match NS populations, the size of (attacking) nations' expeditionary forces simply cannot and will not grow anywhere close to the size of forces of nations (defending) due to the inherent logistical and power projection asset demands of expeditionary forces. So yes, while mustering a million strong force for an invasion is possible by NS scale, the defender of any such invasion would more likely than not be able to draw on a vastly larger amount of forces for defense, as by virtue of being the defender, he will need far less logistics and transport assets to mobilize forces to defend against the invasion. Nations is NS also tend to be at parity in terms of military sophistication/quality/etc, which means that an expeditionary force smaller than the defensive forces is unlikely to cut it unlike in real life (i.e. Coalition forces were able to utterly render the Iraqi military impotent despite being heavily outnumbered).

[Placken]

In NS, most nations are islands, aren't they?
Also, it's possible for a nation to invade another nation 15,000 km or more away: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_downfall
With NS-scale technology, it's entirely possible for it to occur.

As long as nearby islands are assaulted and taken over first.

Naturally I doubt many nations have nearby island chains, even though every real nation of some size and stature has some islands nearby.

IMO when militaries are scaled up to match NS populations, the size of (attacking) nations' expeditionary forces simply cannot and will not grow anywhere close to the size of forces of nations (defending) due to the inherent logistical and power projection asset demands of expeditionary forces. So yes, while mustering a million strong force for an invasion is possible by NS scale, the defender of any such invasion would more likely than not be able to draw on a vastly larger amount of forces for defense, as by virtue of being the defender, he will need far less logistics and transport assets to mobilize forces to defend against the invasion. Nations is NS also tend to be at parity in terms of military sophistication/quality/etc, which means that an expeditionary force smaller than the defensive forces is unlikely to cut it unlike in real life (i.e. Coalition forces were able to utterly render the Iraqi military impotent despite being heavily outnumbered).

Yes, if people didn't Godmode and played realistically there would just be mass carnage. Most popularly people try to imitate (whether they are aware of it not) The Iraq War, where the invasion forces had massive air superiority, and pretty much went straight to the capital. Although NSers tend to be more brutal and forget the insurgency. Since NSers don't value the lives of anyone once war begins, and their population grows exponentially, even during war, which they never tire of. You basically have the type of warfare from 1984, where it is perpetual and indecisive.

[Stahn]

I am role playing with/agaisnt someone who doesn't use trackers but his facebook stats. Noramlly his forces would be 40% smaller then me but with his facebook stats he has 5x the forces as I have.

Now he claims that is not even all of it. The forces stated in his factbook, he tells me, are only part of his total forces.

And he won't tell me what his total forces are as "our nations are not on friendly terms".

He has several islands and 5.000.000 soldiers defending his "Iron Wall" witch protects the only way to get on the island as the rest of the coast is all protected by impassible high cliffs.

He has several other islands, two of them almost as big as the main island but now hew won't tell me how many forces are protecting them.

So, I am a bit in a bind here.

How can I have a RP with a guy like that?

[Constaniana]

I am role playing with/agaisnt someone who doesn't use trackers but his facebook stats. Noramlly his forces would be 40% smaller then me but with his facebook stats he has 5x the forces as I have.

Now he claims that is not even all of it. The forces stated in his factbook, he tells me, are only part of his total forces.

And he won't tell me what his total forces are as "our nations are not on friendly terms".

He has several islands and 5.000.000 soldiers defending his "Iron Wall" witch protects the only way to get on the island as the rest of the coast is all protected by impassible high cliffs.

He has several other islands, two of them almost as big as the main island but now hew won't tell me how many forces are protecting them.

So, I am a bit in a bind here.

How can I have a RP with a guy like that?

You don't. Rp is about cooperation, not proving how much better you are than other people on the Internet. This person shows an inability for that desirable attribute, so you can't have a good RP with him.

[Stahn]

He has given me the rest of the numbers by now. I only have to wait for the information on how they are deployed

Ground Forces: 17,000,000/7,000,000 Active/10,000,000 Reserve
Naval Forces: 6,000 Ships; 10,000,000 Troops/3,000 Ships Active; 4,500,000 Troops Active/3,000 Ships Reserve; 5,500,000 Troops Reserve
Air Force: 3,500,000 Aircraft/2,000,000 Active/1,500,000 Reserve

[Placken]

He has given me the rest of the numbers by now. I only have to wait for the information on how they are deployed

Ground Forces: 17,000,000/7,000,000 Active/10,000,000 Reserve
Naval Forces: 6,000 Ships; 10,000,000 Troops/3,000 Ships Active; 4,500,000 Troops Active/3,000 Ships Reserve; 5,500,000 Troops Reserve
Air Force: 3,500,000 Aircraft/2,000,000 Active/1,500,000 Reserve

Remember you can't actually beat anyone, unless they let you. Some people RP like it is Risk or something. Instead of thinking of ways to outsmart you opponent try proposing a storyline, and find out what kind of results he will accept.

[Stahn]

I know. I don’t RP to win. Normally.

This time I do. That nation has become a large part of the history of mine and I want to get this over with once and for all.

Normally I think RP-ing to win is completely silly. RP-ing should be about writing an exiting storyline together.

Best RPers are those that are prepared to lose if it makes for a better story, I feel.

But in this case I will not show my opponent any of that RP courtesy.

Totally done with that guy and am totally bummed out I let his nation become such a large part of my nations back story.

:<

[Constaniana]

I know. I don’t RP to win. Normally.

This time I do. That nation has become a large part of the history of mine and I want to get this over with once and for all.

Normally I think RP-ing to win is completely silly. RP-ing should be about writing an exiting storyline together.

Best RPers are those that are prepared to lose if it makes for a better story, I feel.

But in this case I will not show my opponent any of that RP courtesy.

Totally done with that guy and am totally bummed out I let his nation become such a large part of my nations back story.

:<

There's always a good 'ol retcon you can use.

[Santheres]

I know. I don’t RP to win. Normally.

This time I do. That nation has become a large part of the history of mine and I want to get this over with once and for all.

Normally I think RP-ing to win is completely silly. RP-ing should be about writing an exiting storyline together.

Best RPers are those that are prepared to lose if it makes for a better story, I feel.

But in this case I will not show my opponent any of that RP courtesy.

Totally done with that guy and am totally bummed out I let his nation become such a large part of my nations back story.

:<

If you're "done with" them, then stop playing with them. Take your ball and go home.

[Stahn]

I know. I don’t RP to win. Normally.

This time I do. That nation has become a large part of the history of mine and I want to get this over with once and for all.

Normally I think RP-ing to win is completely silly. RP-ing should be about writing an exiting storyline together.

Best RPers are those that are prepared to lose if it makes for a better story, I feel.

But in this case I will not show my opponent any of that RP courtesy.

Totally done with that guy and am totally bummed out I let his nation become such a large part of my nations back story.

:<

If you're "done with" them, then stop playing with them. Take your ball and go home.

Probably the wisest thing to do. I am just going to tidy up some deatails in the RP and never play with him again.

[Tiami]

I know. I don’t RP to win. Normally.

This time I do. That nation has become a large part of the history of mine and I want to get this over with once and for all.

Normally I think RP-ing to win is completely silly. RP-ing should be about writing an exiting storyline together.

Best RPers are those that are prepared to lose if it makes for a better story, I feel.

But in this case I will not show my opponent any of that RP courtesy.

Totally done with that guy and am totally bummed out I let his nation become such a large part of my nations back story.

:<

There's always a good 'ol retcon you can use.

Judging from what I have read, I would suggest you not RP with the said nation. Why I say this is simple: the nation in question can not accept defeat, or not willingly, I should say. Thus, RPng with them would be fruitless.

~Tiami

[Feazanthia]

It really sucks when this happens, but I'm going to have to concur - if said nation has become too big a pain in your butt, simply stop interacting with him. When nations become too interested in winning instead of writing a good story, it is time to cut them loose. You generally cannot talk sense into them, as they have started seeing RP as a competitive sport rather than a cooperative venture. Likewise, trying to one-up them will inevitably end in everyone hating each other and possibly even leaving the game. You can't beat him, because he does not want to allow himself to be beaten.

If you're concerned about your backstory, you have a couple options. If you think this individual may see the light, or if you can write around him, you can leave him as a part of your canon and simply have "diplomatic relations" between your nation cool. Close your borders, embargo him, etc. He can't declare war on you without your permission. Simply stonewall him.

The other option would be the complete retcon. In this scenario, I'd recommend replacing references to this nation in your backstory with an NPC nation - a nation of your own creation, who is like this fellow in every way but names and locations (or altered to fit a specific backstory you would like to have).

Either of these options would be viable in your situation, I would think.

[Stahn]

Thank you all very much. All great advice.

Ijust gave him a taste of his own medicine and he withdrew from the RP.

Not my proudest moment. "Winning" by out bad roleplaying someone.

Problem about retconning: It has happened a lot in my nations history. I have other, more peace loving nations.

But Stahn is intended to be a real warlike nation. Sort of a mix with popular modern views on the Mongol Empire and western cold war propaganda views on the USSR.

But it been involved in only 4 wars now. The first was retconned by my ally because of the actions of an enemy role player. (And I can see why he did that and completely agree.)

Second one I had the leader of my nation, Warlord Gomhtog, acting like he was a good guy in a rather nice war but planning on betraying his allies at the right time.

That was retconned from the moment Gomhtog showed his true face.

(Made a huge beginners mistake in that RP not posting IC about my secret alliance with the enemy but doing it really in secret, coordinating our actions with the use of TG’s.)

After that I was involved in a war in which the enemy and my ally came to a truce just a mere moment after I joined the RP.

That was not that bad really. I have Gomhtog taken the credit for scaring the enemies into surrendering because of his nation joining the fight.

(It is not how it went but hey, crazy dictators would brag like that I feel.)

The ally I helped out was very grateful and did help me out at the last, piece of crap RP war I asked you guys advice about.

Also one RP I sort of quit myself because a lot of concessions had to be made so we could include a FT nation that simply stopped posting very early in the game. (The related OOC thread was very, very long and was going on for ages before the IC thread actually started.)

I had to make a lot of concessions in that RP and when that person stopped posting I just did not feel like continuing it at all.

I was also flamed by a person. As a result I had Gomhtog IC made the thread to destroy his nation and almost right after that the nation was deleted by the staff of the forum.

So Gomhtog has taken credit for destroying that nation as well.

Anysneeze, the nation I was complaining about had made a thread about a princess seeking a husband. I got involved and had Gomhtog fall in love with her. Now the princess is married to another bloke and a lot of crap went on. The nation supported a a 3rd party that had my warlord assaulted and kidnapped during a peace summit. A peace summit after that my nation demanded satisfaction for what happened and that 3rd party was a close ally of the nation I complained about so they threw horrible insults at Gomhtog. Also, earlier after Gomhtog managed to escape from the kidnappers the nation shot at Gomhtogs plane. He wrote about mistaking it for someone else’s plane which was just bs. Obviously he wanted to kill Gomhtog OOC.

[Questers]

Yes. I completely agree. As a new player I found/find it difficult to get into quality RP's because I did not already have quality RP's under my belt/wasn't friends with the right people OOC. I essentially just had to invent excuses to write in BAD RP's so I could then point to my writing and say "Fuck you, I can write." It's the same vicious cycle as "You can't get a job because you don't have experience." and it's maddening. Then there's the assholes who refuse to write with me until I'm two or three years old. The more I immerse myself the more I come to realize that the NS community is rather aristocratic. There's a certain group of players that are "the best" (by popular consideration, of course) and you'll never be as good as them, even if some of them now write only very rarely. And every once in a while, for a split second, that makes me angry. Then I realize that I don't care because I'm here to write and as long as I'm doing that, I'm happy.

Yes. It's pretty dumb, frankly. However, things are improving/things have improved. General NS reputation is shifting towards preferring people who are very competent/knowledgeable in a particular field, rather than people who can browbeat everyone into believing they're right.

Plus, the way that the NationStates community has developed is actually rather interesting from a sociological point of view.

In my observation, from 2003-2010-2013, there is some pattern. Overwhelmingly, there has been a trend of people to establish themselves from brute force of personality ,and then using their momentum to keep building. They had some feature that made people accept defeat and they kept using it to the point where they became recognised players. I would count myself in this category as well as some other high-profile (ok, not anymore, but jolt era at least) players who I won't name. Their, and perhaps my, reputation extends today. Several times I have tried to make particular points with puppet nations and people have plainly told me to gtfo or treated me in a way that I wouldn't expect if I had used my main nation.

Many people say the point of NS is to write a story. No, that isn't true. NS is basically a game about persuading people you're right. You do that through writing a story. There are some ways to do this. Either you can write impressive purple prose that other people can't. Or you could write a series of very detailed technical specifications (but you must be careful not to get on the wrong side of existing 'technical experts.') In minor ways you can draw impressive pictures, or having many, active storefronts. In any event once you have convinced a plurality of the population you are some kind of IC specialist or superpower in the field, by producing some kind of output that majority of players can't produce, then you can get away with a great many things that minor nations can not.

However this is changing. There are now a lot of people on NS who are technically educated and basically interested only in the facts. It has resulted in the death of the old school, "I win because I am X" type player. Good.

In terms of actual writing ability, that has nothing to do with how many RPs you have. We have always known that to be true. In the past there have been high profile players with thousands of posts and years of experience who still type like children. Hataria, for instance. Those do not remain today, interestingly. They are quickly shunted aside and people do not play with them. The original NS II aristocracy spread through word of mouth and OOC popularity. Today, they are all basically dead. The same problems remain but are slowly disappearing.

Incidentally, the death of the NS IC regional politics has been bad for this. In "the old days", large regions like Gholgoth, Haven and GD used to snap up new players with obvious promise. I don't see that happening anymore.

[New Tyran]

Wow, I've learned some things today.

[Delmonte]

Yes. I completely agree. As a new player I found/find it difficult to get into quality RP's because I did not already have quality RP's under my belt/wasn't friends with the right people OOC. I essentially just had to invent excuses to write in BAD RP's so I could then point to my writing and say "Fuck you, I can write." It's the same vicious cycle as "You can't get a job because you don't have experience." and it's maddening. Then there's the assholes who refuse to write with me until I'm two or three years old. The more I immerse myself the more I come to realize that the NS community is rather aristocratic. There's a certain group of players that are "the best" (by popular consideration, of course) and you'll never be as good as them, even if some of them now write only very rarely. And every once in a while, for a split second, that makes me angry. Then I realize that I don't care because I'm here to write and as long as I'm doing that, I'm happy.

Yes. It's pretty dumb, frankly. However, things are improving/things have improved. General NS reputation is shifting towards preferring people who are very competent/knowledgeable in a particular field, rather than people who can browbeat everyone into believing they're right.

I actually didn't expect people to agree with me, let alone the flood of supportive Telegrams I received after posting what I did. It does give one a bit of hope, as you said.

[Lamoni]

Yes. It's pretty dumb, frankly. However, things are improving/things have improved. General NS reputation is shifting towards preferring people who are very competent/knowledgeable in a particular field, rather than people who can browbeat everyone into believing they're right.

I actually didn't expect people to agree with me, let alone the flood of supportive Telegrams I received after posting what I did. It does give one a bit of hope, as you said.

You've said something that people have known about for a long time, but I don't know if anyone has ever really dared to say until now. Good job, Delmonte.

[Gibbl]

This may be a stupid question, but I cannot find the answer anywhere using search, so is there any standard for how long an IC year is with regards to national stats?

[Questers]

This may be a stupid question, but I cannot find the answer anywhere using search, so is there any standard for how long an IC year is with regards to national stats?

Completely fluid.

[Romberg]

@Delmonte: Somehow, on the other hand, since I've started NS just a couple of months ago, it's a bit different for me. I guess I was lucky enough to be in a few RPs that were quite decent, and I was at least respected somewhat during those instead of using the old "n00b" excuse. And they'd usually point out godmods instead of just firing the cannon straightaway. But on the other hand, perhaps hanging around in F7 and GE&T may be a good idea, since the people there generally seem to be more supporting to new people.

[Gibbl]

Thank you.