NATION

PASSWORD

How to Avoid Being a Novice (A Help Guide for New Players)

A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]
User avatar
New Azura
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5304
Founded: Jun 22, 2006
Ex-Nation

How to Avoid Being a Novice (A Help Guide for New Players)

Postby New Azura » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:48 pm

Newb!

It's the most dreaded phrase for a new roleplayer to have attached to them here on the boards, especially in the International Incidents forum. If someone hits you with the "newb/noob" label, you can almost rest assured that your reputation will take a serious hit. In a game where cooperation and reputation mean so much to your gaming experience here at NationStates, you cannot afford to make a bad first impression!

First, let's dispel the notion right away that only the newest nations are capable of being labeled "newbs", because this is simply not the case. The determining factor of whether or not a player is to be avoided as an RP novice stems from their built-up reputation, and the mortal NationStates RP Sin of continually engaging in frowned-upon behavior. If you constantly make the same mistakes, people will begin to avoid you like the plague, making it especially important not to repeat your past mistakes.

Let's also be clear, that no matter how talented of a writer you are, you're going to have issues when you first start out in the game. Regardless of whether people begin to troll you (nag you with posts about your inexperience), don't let initial failures get you down, because we all make 'em at one point or another. The important thing is to learn from your mistakes and to keep going with the game. As long as you don't give up, your chances are high that you'll be able to find your niche in the game.

With that said, here are a few short topics that can help your gameplay out immensely, and garner you some serious credibility with the more established players in the game...

When to Retcon, When Not to Retcon...
Retconning is the act of abolishing work on a roleplay that has already begun on the website. Similar to "aborting" a thread, retconning means that everything that you and others had begun to write in a roleplay no longer applies to the mythos, or canon of your NationStates country. As you can probably imagine, a lot of people can grow very agitated at you when you decide to retcon a story in the middle of completing it. Some of the most frequent reasons for doing so is to prevent your nation from suffering a loss in a war RP. Other times, people retcon their involvement because of other novices who are spamming the thread with godmodding and other noobish tendencies.

The good rule of thumb is to stick with a roleplay for as long as you can, and to never retcon because you're about to lose. If you made the conscious decision to get involved in a canon-RP (meaning the results would affect your country), then demonstrate poise and maturity by taking your lumps. Again, we all take them from time to time, both ICly and OOCly. Quitting out because you're losing a war only makes people not want to roleplay with you. Now, if others are basically ignoring your posts, or attacking you while posting your losses without your consent, then you have every right to request that they stop. Only when people threaten to become uncooperative should you ever consider retconning a canon RP, unless the other participants drop out of the story.


Godmodding and Number-Spamming
Two of the most damaging labels that a new player can have attached to them is the terms "godmodder!" and "number-spammer!" Godmodding is by far the most common form of inexperienced mistakes that new players make, and it's one that can permeate your gameplay if you don't correct it quickly. It entails the act of basically "playing God", taking responsibility for posting information on attacks or troop movements that you're not privileged to post. For instance, if Nation A and Nation B are involved in a war RP, and Nation A writes of the nuclear attack on Nation B's capital city without asking for permission, that's a blatant case of godmodding. If your forces are virtually impenetrable to all forms of attack from your adversary in a roleplay, this is also godmodding.

Number spamming isn't as well-known as godmodding, but it's almost as damaging to a player's reputation, to be honest. Number spamming can mean several different things: it can represent a player who uses an inordinate amount of troops, missiles, bombs, etc. in a roleplay thread, to the extent that such a post is unrealistic and unfair to other nations. For instance, a nation that roleplays sending 1 Million warships and 50 million soldiers against a nation with a population of 10 million is likely going to be accused of numberspamming. Also, having a military that's nearly 50% of your total population, or throwing around cash amounts of $50 Trillion when your entire GDP is less than $100 Billion can be considered number spamming, or wanking. Try to play realistic, and always be fair to other players. Roleplay your attack beginning, but allow your adversary to post the actual attack sequence and the damages. And be fair in giving damage to your opponent's attacks, so that they'll be courtesy and do the same for you.


Flaming and Trolling
Flaming and trolling are the acts of intentionally goading people on with irritating posts and constant spamming of threads, to the point of making others uncomfortable or desiring you to leave. Constant posting in a thread when you've been asked to leave is a pretty clear cut example of trolling, as is being a general nuisance in a thread that you don't belong in. Flaming, a more serious form of trolling, involves making real-life or out-of-character comments that can be considered incendiary or derogatory. Making

The best rule of thumb to remember is that NationStates is just a game. While there may be a few wacky apples in the barrel, not everyone that RPs their nations as slave-holders believe that slavery is just in real life, just like the proportion of actual Nazis to nazi countries is extremely low. This game should be a fun experience, where new and interesting people from around the world meet to share ideas and form OOC friendships. Flaming, ie making things personal by trying to maliciously hurt others, is simply a waste of your time, and doesn't serve a purpose other than to get yourself banned from the game. Remember—nothing done in the IC context of the roleplay boards should EVER be taken as a literal attack on a person's character. Remember this golden rule, and your experience will improve dramatically!


Bumping Topics and One-Line Posts
Finally, a fairly common problem amongst newer players that can damage their reputation is the incessant use of the "BUMP" phenomenon. Bumping is the act of moving your thread post up in the forum index by making short, often pointless posts in order to make your threads more visible. Doing this constantly is considered a bad play, and can earn your thread a lock-down from the moderation staff. Moreover, constant bumping gives off the impression that your thread may not be worth checking out if people think you have to "bump" it to get it noticed. Slowly work on your roleplays, and let them catch on. Advertise if you want to, but do it legally and never try to spam your own threads to get attention.

And while you're here, let's address the issue of one-line posting. Players that respond to an open roleplay with only a short blurb of one to two sentences are frowned upon often by more experienced players. If you find a thread where writers are using elaborate communication formats and fancy language about a potential war, posting this short reply:

The Nation of JohnDoe declares war on the Nation of JohnSmith!


Will cause your reputation to sink faster than a stone in water. If you want to be recognized as a young nation with considerable talent, try doing at least a short paragraph. Mind you, writing a reply the size of War and Peace is almost as bad as a one-line reply. But try your hand at being more creative and more verbose than a one line blurb, and people will want to play with you more!


Following these general steps can help improve your quality of participation and activity here at NationStates. There are plenty of people that are unfortunately prone to bouts of vanity over such a simple game, and will probably mock you as you try and learn the ins and outs of the game. But just remember, that for every person who shoots you down, there are nations out there who have been where you're at now, and will gladly help you discover a few tricks of the trade, in order to have as much fun here on the boards as possible.


God Bless! And Happy Roleplaying From Your Friend:
- The Holy Cailene Empire of New Azura
Last edited by New Azura on Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
THEEVENGUARDOFAZURA
UNEFLEURPOURLECOLOSSE

— A PROUD MEMBER OF GREATER DIENSTAD

THEDOMINIONOFTHERITHOS
CAPITAL:ISAURA (TSYION)DEMONYM:AZURGOVERNMENT:IMPERIAL THEOCRACYLANGUAGE:CIRAZUR

Her Graceful Excellence the Phaedra
CALIXTEIMARAUDER
By the Grace of the Lord God, the Daughter of Tsyion, Spirited Maiden, First Matron of House Vardanyan
Imperatrix of the Evenguard of Azura and Sovereign Over Her Dependencies, the Governess of Isaura
and the Defender of the Children of Azura


— Current Roleplays —
Congress of Ishikawa|Summit Tsyion 2016

— Multilateral Agreements —
CAPINTERN|Global Aerospace Trade Association|The Western Pact

— Controlled Nations —
Azura, Lexmark, New Azura

— Other Supported Regions —
Astyria (PT | MT), Teremara (P/MT | FT), The Local Cluster (FT)

— Roleplay Tech Levels —
[PT][MT][PMT][FT][FanT]

User avatar
New Azura
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5304
Founded: Jun 22, 2006
Ex-Nation

How to RP Good Characterization

Postby New Azura » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:31 pm

This is a conversation that might help you with issues over characterization in your roleplays. This is an honest conversation that I just had on the IRC with a friend of mine, and hopefully it can help some people.

17:18 - [Name Withheld]
How does one achieve good characterization and development? [Been meaning to ask and such]

17:20 - Azura
Good characterization comes from keeping a delicate balance between shallowness and depth, tragic and heroic, flawed and perfection. Like a six pointed star, only you wanna find your center.

17:20 - [Name Withheld]
And how do I do that?

17:20 - Azura
You don't want your character to be too shallow and be one dimensional, but you don't want him to have schizophrenia either.

17:21 - [Name Withheld]
Whats wrong with schizophrenic's?

17:21 - Azura
Oh, nothing. I'm just saying that you don't want a character with twenty personalities. So trying to strike a balance would be having a character that's layered. He's got a sense of humor, but he also has a reserved sense of discipline that keeps him on the straight and narrow. Unless you want a character with that many personalities.

17:22 - [Name Withheld]
Oh, okay.

17:22 - Azura
Ugh, let me see here. What I'm trying to get at is that you don't want your character to be one dimensional, but you don't want him flip-flopping between identities all the time.

17:23 - [Name Withheld]
Ah, okay I understand that

17:23 - Azura
Likewise, you don't want your character to be a constant sad sack who is basically a friend to death, but you also don't necessarily want Superman. So someone that understands the thrill of victory and the pain of defeat makes for a balanced, human character. Ah, and finally, you don't want to create a character that's so flawed that he becomes a parody. The most fleshed-out characters all have more to them than a jinx. But you don't want to make a Mary Sue either - someone who's /so/ perfect that readers associate the character with being an author/writer's pet.
THEEVENGUARDOFAZURA
UNEFLEURPOURLECOLOSSE

— A PROUD MEMBER OF GREATER DIENSTAD

THEDOMINIONOFTHERITHOS
CAPITAL:ISAURA (TSYION)DEMONYM:AZURGOVERNMENT:IMPERIAL THEOCRACYLANGUAGE:CIRAZUR

Her Graceful Excellence the Phaedra
CALIXTEIMARAUDER
By the Grace of the Lord God, the Daughter of Tsyion, Spirited Maiden, First Matron of House Vardanyan
Imperatrix of the Evenguard of Azura and Sovereign Over Her Dependencies, the Governess of Isaura
and the Defender of the Children of Azura


— Current Roleplays —
Congress of Ishikawa|Summit Tsyion 2016

— Multilateral Agreements —
CAPINTERN|Global Aerospace Trade Association|The Western Pact

— Controlled Nations —
Azura, Lexmark, New Azura

— Other Supported Regions —
Astyria (PT | MT), Teremara (P/MT | FT), The Local Cluster (FT)

— Roleplay Tech Levels —
[PT][MT][PMT][FT][FanT]

User avatar
Whairtia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1787
Founded: Feb 15, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Whairtia » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:48 pm

This must be stickied, do you want me to ask?
What it is like to step foot on Whairtian soil

If anyone is willing to make me a flag (Because I need one :|) Telegram me :)

User avatar
New Azura
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5304
Founded: Jun 22, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby New Azura » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:51 pm

Whairtia wrote:This must be stickied, do you want me to ask?


That's up to you. I'm just trying to be helpful to nations who don't know where else to turn.
THEEVENGUARDOFAZURA
UNEFLEURPOURLECOLOSSE

— A PROUD MEMBER OF GREATER DIENSTAD

THEDOMINIONOFTHERITHOS
CAPITAL:ISAURA (TSYION)DEMONYM:AZURGOVERNMENT:IMPERIAL THEOCRACYLANGUAGE:CIRAZUR

Her Graceful Excellence the Phaedra
CALIXTEIMARAUDER
By the Grace of the Lord God, the Daughter of Tsyion, Spirited Maiden, First Matron of House Vardanyan
Imperatrix of the Evenguard of Azura and Sovereign Over Her Dependencies, the Governess of Isaura
and the Defender of the Children of Azura


— Current Roleplays —
Congress of Ishikawa|Summit Tsyion 2016

— Multilateral Agreements —
CAPINTERN|Global Aerospace Trade Association|The Western Pact

— Controlled Nations —
Azura, Lexmark, New Azura

— Other Supported Regions —
Astyria (PT | MT), Teremara (P/MT | FT), The Local Cluster (FT)

— Roleplay Tech Levels —
[PT][MT][PMT][FT][FanT]

User avatar
Sailsia
Senator
 
Posts: 4475
Founded: Mar 05, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Sailsia » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:38 pm

Should be added to the Information Desk. As usual, Az, a great guide. I only wish you had posted so many great sources before I started the game. *shudders* :(

I was wondering though, do you think you might also be able to add a section about OOC etiquette?
RIP RON PAUL
Author of the U.S. Constitution
July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

User avatar
New Azura
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5304
Founded: Jun 22, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby New Azura » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:33 pm

Yeah, I'll work on one overnight.
THEEVENGUARDOFAZURA
UNEFLEURPOURLECOLOSSE

— A PROUD MEMBER OF GREATER DIENSTAD

THEDOMINIONOFTHERITHOS
CAPITAL:ISAURA (TSYION)DEMONYM:AZURGOVERNMENT:IMPERIAL THEOCRACYLANGUAGE:CIRAZUR

Her Graceful Excellence the Phaedra
CALIXTEIMARAUDER
By the Grace of the Lord God, the Daughter of Tsyion, Spirited Maiden, First Matron of House Vardanyan
Imperatrix of the Evenguard of Azura and Sovereign Over Her Dependencies, the Governess of Isaura
and the Defender of the Children of Azura


— Current Roleplays —
Congress of Ishikawa|Summit Tsyion 2016

— Multilateral Agreements —
CAPINTERN|Global Aerospace Trade Association|The Western Pact

— Controlled Nations —
Azura, Lexmark, New Azura

— Other Supported Regions —
Astyria (PT | MT), Teremara (P/MT | FT), The Local Cluster (FT)

— Roleplay Tech Levels —
[PT][MT][PMT][FT][FanT]

User avatar
New Hayesalia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7450
Founded: Jul 21, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby New Hayesalia » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:02 pm

You sir, are a genius!

User avatar
New Hayesalia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7450
Founded: Jul 21, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby New Hayesalia » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:58 pm

Okay, this was stickied in about a day.

Azura, you are a god.

User avatar
New Azura
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5304
Founded: Jun 22, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby New Azura » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:02 am

OOC Etiquette

Of all the tenets of successful roleplaying and acceptance into the greater community of writers here at NationStates, learning the ins and outs of successful etiquette in the OOC, or "real life" context is one of the most unappreciated facets of gameplay, and also the one that's most difficult to master. Despite being so simplistic and so easy to facilitate into your repertoire of skills, learning how to handle yourself in OOC (out of character) settings is the most difficult thing for new players to master. On the one hand, it's easy to understand how players may not understand the ins and outs of the game when they first begin, like the descriptors used in RP titles (MT/OOC/IC/FT/PMT/PT/SIC/etc.)—yet so much of that inexperience can be overcome by simply expressing upfront your unfamiliarity with the game, and your desire to learn.

So many people have to learn about the etiquette that goes into becoming a successful RPer the hard way—by making accidental enemies and damaging your reputation from the outset. I've created this post at the bequest of Sailsia, who thought it would be a good addition. And it is a good addition, because if anything, this guide may help you learn how to avoid making the same repetitive mistakes that have hurt so many of us when we first began, myself included.

First, the number one thing to realize is that no matter how many wonderfully twisted nations you find out there in the NationStates Universe, the best rule of thumb to remember is that the "handlers" / writers behind them are probably pretty cool people. That's not to say that everyone is a good person in real life, but your first instinct should always be to give them the benefit of the doubt, especially as a young nation. The reason for this is because the proportion of jerks on the game, at least in the roleplaying community, is very low. You're more likely to find your next best online friend at NationStates than you are your arch rival. But the largest group of jerks in the game, sadly, can often be found in the nations who were formed within a calendar year of the current date.

The smallest nations are often handled by some of the most jerkish people. A large part of that revolves around their inexperience, and around one of the most damaging problems in the entire game. People value their nations too much, to the point of making them an extension of their real life personalities. You CANNOT fall into this trap, because it's not only unhealthy, it's also a straight ticket to the noob moniker. NationStates is a game, and it's also an excellent community where people can become friends in a relatively safe and effective way. If you approach the game with the mindset of having fun and meeting new people in your writing, then you're going to soar here. If, however, you treat your nation as an extension of you, and thus must advance it forward at all cost, you're going to run into trouble.

Small nations that make up for their lack of size and experience with bravado typically find themselves making a crucial mistake—invariably, they irritate a larger nation, who may or may not decide to squash them like flies. If you're lucky, you'll find a nation like me, who will squash you for your insolence, then take you out for the proverbial ice cream and show you how to avoid making that mistake in the future. If you're vastly unlucky, you'll get someone like my buddy Ralkovia, who will basically make you his personal plaything for the rest of your time on NationStates.

Now, you don't have to be a pushover by any means. If people give you guff in the OOC, the best bet is to basically laugh them off. A good principle to live by here is that if someone is retarded enough to take this game personally, they're probably not worth hanging out with anyway, and simply move on from it. If the baiting becomes persistent, it's good etiquette NOT to retaliate, but to go to moderation for help. If you allow the dander to get up, you may get punished for the flaming just like the instigator will.

Once your mindset is in the right place, there's just a few little bits and pieces to watch out for. Always be mindful of the tags that people attach to their RP posts. For instance, the most common ones, "IC" and "OOC" revolve around the nature of the thread. IC posts are where the Roleplays are carried out, and are thus "in-character". When you post there, you're expected to keep everything in the roleplay setting. If people are good at the game, they'll typically attach an OOC thread to an open roleplay (which I'll explain momentarily). OOC threads are places where people can express interest in participating in a roleplay, asking questions about other nations who are involved, and post general ideas moving forward. If you have questions, ask them in the OOC forum, NOT the IC forum. If there isn't an OOC Forum to be found, good etiquette dictates that you should telegram the OP (the creator of the thread) with your questions. Always try to avoid talking about OOC questions in an IC thread.

Furthermore, familiarize yourself with the tags in general. Along with IC and OOC, you'll often find one of the following: "Open, Semi-Open, Semi-Closed, or Closed". Open roleplays mean anyone and their brother can join. Semi-Open & Semi-Closed roleplays offer varying degrees of admittance, but generally require you to either telegram the OP for permission (Semi-Open) or fill out an application in an OOC thread to join, or be outright invited (Semi-Closed). Closed roleplays mean that only the OP and a group of nations he's selected can post. NEVER post w/o permission in a closed thread that you're not apart of, because your post will likely be deleted. Always telegram people first - it's what they're there for!

Finally, familiarize yourself with the "time setting" tags - the identifiers that help people see what time period the roleplay is taking place in. "MT" stands for modern tech, and generally encompasses anything from 1980 to 2020 safely. Most nations are set one to two years ahead of actual time, so don't be confused if people have their roleplays set in 2013, but are still talking like it's the present day. "PMT" stands for post modern tech, and can encompass a wide degree of territory. Generally, PMT begins around forty to fifty years ahead of the modern day (early-PMT) and can go for several hundred years (late-PMT). The more unrealistic the technology on display is, the later in PMT the roleplay is set. "PT" is past tech, and generally isn't as common as MT or PMT. Past tech can be anything from the 1960s or '50s to the beginning of time, basically. It's a good rule of thumb to check with the OP first. "FT" is future tech, and represents a WIDE variety of RP settings. Anything that has to do with space civilizations, the presence of FTL (faster than light) travel, or non-human species are tokens of FT settings. Sometimes, FT can rarely stand for Fantasy Tech, though I prefer the "FanT" label myself. Fantasy Tech isn't necessarily future tech, but it does incorporate a large degree of fantasy elements that are common in most fantasy universes.

If you learn the tags, learn when it's appropriate to post and when it's not, and always act considerate and friendly towards others, you should avoid the most common mistakes that befall new players. In the process, you're one step closer to becoming a respected member of the RP community. And with that comes the most cherished prize of playing this game: you can start having fun!

Quick Notes:
1. If you incorporate fantasy elements into your nation (such as werewolves, vampires, wizards, the use of magic, etc.) then please notify people who are interested in roleplaying with you in threads. Especially if it's a MT setting, because a majority of the players online do not play with fantasy elements, and will not appreciate spending time on a thread, only to discover you using magic against their invasion forces. It's just good etiquette.

2. A fabled problem is the size of your military. While other sources have much more in-depth studies on the art of war in NationStates, your military should never exceed 5% of your total population. 5% is considered "North Korea" levels by NS standards, and would wreck your economy pretty badly. Most nations operate around 2-3%, and for new nations this is a great place to start. If you've just begun the game, a nation of 5 Million could realistically have around 150,000 in their military to begin with. Nations that just start out who RP militaries of 2 million are going to be laughed out of threads, or worse, ignored from now on. There have been some very talented writers who have been ostracized by a great deal of people on the game because of their initial blunders in this very area. You really should be careful before going overboard too soon with your numbers.

3. No matter how frustrating it may seem to lose, it's just a game. Go with the flow and make something interesting out of your predicament. But you are never forced to RP with someone from the start - if you get into an RP, see it through, but don't let someone badger you into a roleplay that you don't want to be apart of. Likewise, don't RP another nation's involvement in your thread without getting their prior permission/approval first. That's horrible etiquette, and may constitute a warning from moderation.

4. Avoid getting noticed by the Moderation staff. If a red name appears in the post list of your threads, that's generally a bad thing 99.9% of the time. Avoid seeing red nation names, and you're probably doing okay.


God Bless!
- Azura
THEEVENGUARDOFAZURA
UNEFLEURPOURLECOLOSSE

— A PROUD MEMBER OF GREATER DIENSTAD

THEDOMINIONOFTHERITHOS
CAPITAL:ISAURA (TSYION)DEMONYM:AZURGOVERNMENT:IMPERIAL THEOCRACYLANGUAGE:CIRAZUR

Her Graceful Excellence the Phaedra
CALIXTEIMARAUDER
By the Grace of the Lord God, the Daughter of Tsyion, Spirited Maiden, First Matron of House Vardanyan
Imperatrix of the Evenguard of Azura and Sovereign Over Her Dependencies, the Governess of Isaura
and the Defender of the Children of Azura


— Current Roleplays —
Congress of Ishikawa|Summit Tsyion 2016

— Multilateral Agreements —
CAPINTERN|Global Aerospace Trade Association|The Western Pact

— Controlled Nations —
Azura, Lexmark, New Azura

— Other Supported Regions —
Astyria (PT | MT), Teremara (P/MT | FT), The Local Cluster (FT)

— Roleplay Tech Levels —
[PT][MT][PMT][FT][FanT]

User avatar
Third Spanish States
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1454
Founded: Oct 09, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Third Spanish States » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:24 am

First, the previous updates have been quite constructive and instructional, although one note must goes on how having enough n00bs create a "circle of hell" of n00b RPing subgroups that can easily ignore older players and RP among themselves as n00bs, dissuading any need to improve.

But I have some serious concerns about the latest update on "OOC Etiquette", particularly on how some components of it may be perceived as ironic or contradicting:

People value their nations too much, to the point of making them an extension of their real life personalities.


they irritate a larger nation, who may or may not decide to squash them like flies


High School mindset in this thread.

Certainly an exemplary depiction of how there is absolutely no extension of someone's RL personality in all means.

I'm not giving names, and honestly, I don't think New Azura is an example of it, but it's futile to hide there is something wrong, that has worsened in the last years, about older and established players, and not about new players. There have always been people who manage to be horrible wankers and yet succeed at tricking most into not realizing it, and this was one of the reasons I decided to avoid getting in any region for a long, long time, coupled with the OOC quarreling alienating anyone in region x from RPing with those in region y because the members of each hate each other in an OOC level(something I discovered right after joining a region). Some of the people who did this improved in time as their lives moved on and they stopped taking RPing too seriously, others moved away, but one way or another, there are methods to be a horrible n00b and wanker while still being respected, which most oftenly involve writing well but not being cooperative at all, coupled with being backed up by someone with a strong OOC reputation, which most likely was generated from purely OOC reasons, that allow for eternal n00bs to survive and succeed in their egocentric plays by squashing those outside of their little clique and ignoring those who may win the war from their superior skills, but who are no longer very active in NS.

These people will usually climb next to the latest strongpoint, while those who aren't like this will stick loyally to their player base until it is virtually dead. If group x led by someone with a strong OOC rep goes inactive then they jump to group y, and if group x resurges they then jump back. And then, after reading a thread about n00bery where this kind of behavior is lauded because z is a bro, I cannot really hold up my opinion.

Being a dick to someone because they suck at writing, or because they made an alliance that looks like a rip-off of your own, so you can beat your chest towards the n00bs, using totally OOC excuses to invade someone ICly, is one of worst kinds of RPing possible, and the equivalent of feeding a troll while looking like one yourself, and it has become far more frequent in the last years since the best RPers gradually gave up NationStates as it became more and more like a private playground. Of course, I am free to preemptively avoid RPing with certain people at my leisure, but eventually there will be nothing more besides RPs of 10 6-10 billion strong NSes dogpiling n00bs, if this trend carries on unchecked, as new people will see it and find it acceptable because that is how most thread goes, and in a few years NS, which has already worsened, will become gradually worse, and ICly stagnated.

Even worse however, are the wankers and eternal n00bs that use mods as weapons because of having OOC favoritism with them, but like I said, I am not giving names. I just want to make this very clear because others may be afraid of speaking this, or oblivious to the facts.
PMT Factbook.
Honoro Sacrificium e Libertas : The Mindset, Jaredcohenia, New-Lexington, Binaria, Varejao, Hogsweat, Franberry, ChevyRocks, Izistan, Ulanpataar, North-Point, The Mindset, Vault 10, Rosbaningrad, Sharfghotten, Tyrandis, South Sharfgotten, Jeuna, Satirius, Zukariaa, Midlauthia et New Nicksyllvania.
Izistan wrote:Third Spanish States is a well known far-right activist so his attempts at humor can only be expected.

Umbagar wrote:%*$#! I put a crack in my screen thanks to the awesome "place fist here" sign. >:(

Lhazastan wrote:if all you want to do is run around being the big badass of a community, not only are you pathetic, but you are a bad RPer

Saxon Germany wrote:[...]you're practically a professional troll, TSS.[...]

User avatar
New Azura
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5304
Founded: Jun 22, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby New Azura » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:43 pm

I don't quite understand the point that your trying to get at, though let me be clear that this series isn't targeted, nor was it written for older players. It was meant as a guide for new players. To try and list all of the problems with NationStates, amongst both old and new nations, would take years.
THEEVENGUARDOFAZURA
UNEFLEURPOURLECOLOSSE

— A PROUD MEMBER OF GREATER DIENSTAD

THEDOMINIONOFTHERITHOS
CAPITAL:ISAURA (TSYION)DEMONYM:AZURGOVERNMENT:IMPERIAL THEOCRACYLANGUAGE:CIRAZUR

Her Graceful Excellence the Phaedra
CALIXTEIMARAUDER
By the Grace of the Lord God, the Daughter of Tsyion, Spirited Maiden, First Matron of House Vardanyan
Imperatrix of the Evenguard of Azura and Sovereign Over Her Dependencies, the Governess of Isaura
and the Defender of the Children of Azura


— Current Roleplays —
Congress of Ishikawa|Summit Tsyion 2016

— Multilateral Agreements —
CAPINTERN|Global Aerospace Trade Association|The Western Pact

— Controlled Nations —
Azura, Lexmark, New Azura

— Other Supported Regions —
Astyria (PT | MT), Teremara (P/MT | FT), The Local Cluster (FT)

— Roleplay Tech Levels —
[PT][MT][PMT][FT][FanT]

User avatar
The Terran Technate
Attaché
 
Posts: 70
Founded: Nov 20, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Terran Technate » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:31 pm

Just posting my thanks, New Azura.

User avatar
The Black Plains
Senator
 
Posts: 4536
Founded: Jan 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Black Plains » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:37 pm

New Azura wrote:
Newb!

[blocktext]... If you made the conscious decision to get involved in a canon-RP (meaning the results would affect your country), then demonstrate poise and maturity by taking your lumps.

I've said it before. I'll say it now. And I'll say it again. This is not the attitude to take towards RPing. The ultimate outcome of an invasion roleplay should be known by both players so things like godmodding, retconning, superteching and the like are stopped before they are given a chance to occur.

User avatar
The Black Plains
Senator
 
Posts: 4536
Founded: Jan 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Black Plains » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:40 pm

Third Spanish States wrote:First, the previous updates have been quite constructive and instructional, although one note must goes on how having enough n00bs create a "circle of hell" of n00b RPing subgroups that can easily ignore older players and RP among themselves as n00bs, dissuading any need to improve.

But I have some serious concerns about the latest update on "OOC Etiquette", particularly on how some components of it may be perceived as ironic or contradicting:

People value their nations too much, to the point of making them an extension of their real life personalities.


they irritate a larger nation, who may or may not decide to squash them like flies


snippety

While I disagree with bits and pieces of this, I must say I do agree wholeheartedly with its spirit. And I myself have witnessed such a trend. And I am not afraid to name names. Just glance at my sig.

User avatar
Johz
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5471
Founded: Jan 26, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Johz » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:46 am

This is a great guide, and I like the second bit as well. But can I ask a couple questions?

Firstly, you've warned against godmodding, wanking etc. What, however, is the one positive thing that a new person should do? Is there anything that they could do constructively that would help, or should they just concentrate on keeping bad posts at bay until they've got into the swing of things?

Secondly, how would you recommend nations should start up their RP career? Obviously older RP'ers have contacts that they can RP with, but how should the new player go about their first RP?

I'll probably think of more questions later, but I suppose these are the key two for anyone new reading this.
Always Ready (With a Cuppa): UDL
Praise [violet] for safe switching!

The Village of Johz - (Factbook)
Head of Foreign Affairs:
Mr Newman
Head of the Flower Rota: Mrs Figgis
Population: 269 (Johzians)
Sometime between when the "evolution is just a theory" nonesense dies out, and when Ashmoria starts using captitalization. - EnragedMaldivians
It's called a tangent. It tends to happen on NSG. - Olthar
[E]very Brit I've met on the internet has been violently apathetic. - Conserative Morality
This is Johz. I'd like to give him a hug someday. - Celly
See a mistake? Send me a telegram!|I would be very much indebted to you.
LINKS: My Website|Barryman|Gay Marriage: Who will be next?

#NSG on esper.net - Join us!
Also, bonobos zygons.

User avatar
New Azura
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5304
Founded: Jun 22, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby New Azura » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:19 am

Johz wrote:This is a great guide, and I like the second bit as well. But can I ask a couple questions?

Firstly, you've warned against godmodding, wanking etc. What, however, is the one positive thing that a new person should do? Is there anything that they could do constructively that would help, or should they just concentrate on keeping bad posts at bay until they've got into the swing of things?

Secondly, how would you recommend nations should start up their RP career? Obviously older RP'ers have contacts that they can RP with, but how should the new player go about their first RP?

I'll probably think of more questions later, but I suppose these are the key two for anyone new reading this.


Some may disagree, but I think the one positive thing that new nations can do is ask for help when they're unsure of what to do. Some nations will try and correct new nations' inexperience with a superiority complex, while others like myself try to do it as constructively as possible. If a new nation, when they make mistakes (everyone does at first), admits that they're new and want to learn the ins and outs, then a lot of people are going to take notice of the nation and try and help them out. It's really the safest way to learn and grow, in my opinion. Another positive thing is to work your tail off in your first few roleplays. If you put a lot of time and energy into your first posts, that first impression means more than you can possibly know.

For your second question, when nations are wanting to begin roleplaying in earnest, they should first consider an open roleplay with a very imaginative hook. Tried and true examples of what NOT to do are things that are quite common for attention, like "genocide" posts. A lot of new nations think they can get attention by doing "Christian Nation annihilates Jews", or "Muslim Nation annihilates Homosexuals", etc. The thing is, they do get attention—the bad kind. Try to imagine something that's not very often done in NationStates, probably some type of character or non-nation RP (where your nation isn't the main focus of the RP itself). The more unique and well-written, the better it will be for you. Also, consider inquiring about good RP regions that accept new nations; they are out there, if you look hard enough.
THEEVENGUARDOFAZURA
UNEFLEURPOURLECOLOSSE

— A PROUD MEMBER OF GREATER DIENSTAD

THEDOMINIONOFTHERITHOS
CAPITAL:ISAURA (TSYION)DEMONYM:AZURGOVERNMENT:IMPERIAL THEOCRACYLANGUAGE:CIRAZUR

Her Graceful Excellence the Phaedra
CALIXTEIMARAUDER
By the Grace of the Lord God, the Daughter of Tsyion, Spirited Maiden, First Matron of House Vardanyan
Imperatrix of the Evenguard of Azura and Sovereign Over Her Dependencies, the Governess of Isaura
and the Defender of the Children of Azura


— Current Roleplays —
Congress of Ishikawa|Summit Tsyion 2016

— Multilateral Agreements —
CAPINTERN|Global Aerospace Trade Association|The Western Pact

— Controlled Nations —
Azura, Lexmark, New Azura

— Other Supported Regions —
Astyria (PT | MT), Teremara (P/MT | FT), The Local Cluster (FT)

— Roleplay Tech Levels —
[PT][MT][PMT][FT][FanT]

User avatar
New Azura
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5304
Founded: Jun 22, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby New Azura » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:56 pm

The Black Plains wrote:
New Azura wrote:
Newb!

[blocktext]... If you made the conscious decision to get involved in a canon-RP (meaning the results would affect your country), then demonstrate poise and maturity by taking your lumps.

I've said it before. I'll say it now. And I'll say it again. This is not the attitude to take towards RPing. The ultimate outcome of an invasion roleplay should be known by both players so things like godmodding, retconning, superteching and the like are stopped before they are given a chance to occur.


It's not anyone's call on how someone should roleplay. While I heartily endorse pre-planned RPs as a means of actually finishing something you start, a lot of good contacts can be made through open, non-scripted RPs. And, I must admit, there's a bit of spontaneity with non-scripted RPs.
Last edited by New Azura on Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
THEEVENGUARDOFAZURA
UNEFLEURPOURLECOLOSSE

— A PROUD MEMBER OF GREATER DIENSTAD

THEDOMINIONOFTHERITHOS
CAPITAL:ISAURA (TSYION)DEMONYM:AZURGOVERNMENT:IMPERIAL THEOCRACYLANGUAGE:CIRAZUR

Her Graceful Excellence the Phaedra
CALIXTEIMARAUDER
By the Grace of the Lord God, the Daughter of Tsyion, Spirited Maiden, First Matron of House Vardanyan
Imperatrix of the Evenguard of Azura and Sovereign Over Her Dependencies, the Governess of Isaura
and the Defender of the Children of Azura


— Current Roleplays —
Congress of Ishikawa|Summit Tsyion 2016

— Multilateral Agreements —
CAPINTERN|Global Aerospace Trade Association|The Western Pact

— Controlled Nations —
Azura, Lexmark, New Azura

— Other Supported Regions —
Astyria (PT | MT), Teremara (P/MT | FT), The Local Cluster (FT)

— Roleplay Tech Levels —
[PT][MT][PMT][FT][FanT]

User avatar
Banjamos
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1053
Founded: Nov 28, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Banjamos » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:01 pm

Alright, first off, I would like to thank you for writing this guide. I've already used this guide to help send a new RPer on his way.

However, I would like to help touch on Godmodding.

Godmodding can also include speeding up time without the other player's permission. Granted, it can work in some cases, such as slow developments. However, speeding up your army so it does not recieve any damage that affects it, or allowing the other player to take advantage of that newly opened hole in your lines because of their airstrike, is godmod. I think the general RPing community would agree.


Also, I believe you're correct. I've only done one RP that was planned, and that didn't go half as well as the ones that weren't. A clear outcome sometimes isn't exactly the best plan. What if you want to add a twist? Somebody goes insane and presses the button? Those are questions that can pop up, and create interesting twists, in a non scripted RP. A scripted RP will not go down that path often, due to the fact that if one person is told that they will lose, they will RP steadily losing.

Now, there are advantages. You can using foreshadowing. You know what's going to happen, basically.

Please note that some good authors don't know how their book will end when they start writing it.
Last edited by Banjamos on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Earth II
The Official Twitter Feed of the Banjamo Office of Foreign Affairs (E2)
Seperates wrote:Nebraska.- We're seceding!
U.S.- That's k, just give us our nukes and we'll go.
N.- Back off or I'll bore you to death with my cornfields!
U.S.- *stares... then just breaks down laughing*
N.- Was it something I said?

Tropic Brown Granite wrote:I gave a quote on a new granite counter top. It was both a win and a fail. Lost the girlfriend, gained a customer.

Disclaimer: The views of Banjamos are not necessarily my own.

User avatar
New Azura
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5304
Founded: Jun 22, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby New Azura » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:07 pm

Banjamos wrote:Alright, first off, I would like to thank you for writing this guide. I've already used this guide to help send a new RPer on his way.

However, I would like to help touch on Godmodding.

Godmodding can also include speeding up time without the other player's permission. Granted, it can work in some cases, such as slow developments. However, speeding up your army so it does not recieve any damage that affects it, or allowing the other player to take advantage of that newly opened hole in your lines because of their airstrike, is godmod. I think the general RPing community would agree.


Also, I believe you're correct. I've only done one RP that was planned, and that didn't go half as well as the ones that weren't. A clear outcome sometimes isn't exactly the best plan. What if you want to add a twist? Somebody goes insane and presses the button? Those are questions that can pop up, and create interesting twists, in a non scripted RP. A scripted RP will not go down that path often, due to the fact that if one person is told that they will lose, they will RP steadily losing.

Now, there are advantages. You can using foreshadowing. You know what's going to happen, basically.

Please note that some good authors don't know how their book will end when they start writing it.


Very well said, mate. Top notch!
THEEVENGUARDOFAZURA
UNEFLEURPOURLECOLOSSE

— A PROUD MEMBER OF GREATER DIENSTAD

THEDOMINIONOFTHERITHOS
CAPITAL:ISAURA (TSYION)DEMONYM:AZURGOVERNMENT:IMPERIAL THEOCRACYLANGUAGE:CIRAZUR

Her Graceful Excellence the Phaedra
CALIXTEIMARAUDER
By the Grace of the Lord God, the Daughter of Tsyion, Spirited Maiden, First Matron of House Vardanyan
Imperatrix of the Evenguard of Azura and Sovereign Over Her Dependencies, the Governess of Isaura
and the Defender of the Children of Azura


— Current Roleplays —
Congress of Ishikawa|Summit Tsyion 2016

— Multilateral Agreements —
CAPINTERN|Global Aerospace Trade Association|The Western Pact

— Controlled Nations —
Azura, Lexmark, New Azura

— Other Supported Regions —
Astyria (PT | MT), Teremara (P/MT | FT), The Local Cluster (FT)

— Roleplay Tech Levels —
[PT][MT][PMT][FT][FanT]

User avatar
Dvardis
Envoy
 
Posts: 256
Founded: Jul 16, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Dvardis » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:00 pm

New Azura wrote:It's the most dreaded phrase for a new roleplayer to have attached to them here on the boards, especially in the International Incidents forum. If someone hits you with the "newb/noob" label, you can almost rest assured that your reputation will take a serious hit. In a game where cooperation and reputation mean so much to your gaming experience here at NationStates, you cannot afford to make a bad first impression!

This isn't really true. You can make a bad first impression and subsequently improve; people will take longer to warm up to you, but quite a lot of well-known RPers were n00bs at one point, complete with terribly-written one-liner RPs and disdain from old-timers. You just have to be willing to improve, which usually means having other people to look up to, which usually means working your way into an existing circlejerk.

Let's also be clear, that no matter how talented of a writer you are, you're going to have issues when you first start out in the game.

RP isn't about writing; it's about cooperation. This is something a lot of people miss.

And if you are good at cooperation and dealing with others, your issues will be largely limited to "finding people to RP with."
Regardless of whether people begin to troll you (nag you with posts about your inexperience),

Why do people on this game like to yell "trolling!" so much? Nagging someone about inexperience isn't trolling, it's just being a twit.

But just remember, that for every person who shoots you down, there are nations out there who have been where you're at now, and will gladly help you discover a few tricks of the trade, in order to have as much fun here on the boards as possible.

Meh, the writing of pompous newbie guides always struck me as rather masturbatory; helping new people have fun isn't the point imo.

Newbies tend to gravitate towards other newbies anyway, and that's always been the case more or less. Improvement on the cooperation front is usually best achieved that way. Half-decent writing comes later. Good and concise writing, avoiding pretentious formatting tricks, faux-Clancy militarywank and purple prose, comes latest or not at all. (I'm not all the way there myself, heh.)

New Azura wrote: The reason for this is because the proportion of jerks on the game, at least in the roleplaying community, is very low. You're more likely to find your next best online friend at NationStates than you are your arch rival. But the largest group of jerks in the game, sadly, can often be found in the nations who were formed within a calendar year of the current date.

Yeah, I want to help the newbies so I'll insult them obliquely.

Not that you're wrong, mind, but like I said -- I wouldn't pretend this is "for new players" in any way.

The smallest nations are often handled by some of the most jerkish people. A large part of that revolves around their inexperience, and around one of the most damaging problems in the entire game. People value their nations too much, to the point of making them an extension of their real life personalities.

There are a lot of "highly respectable" RPers who also do this. In more subtle ways, mind, but it's still along the lines of "The X Empire has never lost a war and only my close OOC friend Y can possibly hope to challenge me militarily." Or "I hold Political View Z, therefore everyone in my nation also holds Political View Z except some irrelevant dissenters we are slowly destroying, and we compensate for all the drawbacks of a Z-ist nation with implausible means that I think would work in real life despite them obviously not."

There's also an "only [X ≤ current year - 3] nations are worthy!" siege-mentality among, well, almost everyone who's been around since X. Even unconsciously.

Basically I wouldn't break out the hearts and chocolate quite yet.

If you approach the game with the mindset of having fun and meeting new people in your writing, then you're going to soar here.

Unless your idea of having fun involves anything "the community" doesn't like, such as three-kilometer supercapitals (lol irony) or anthro dinosaurs.

Small nations that make up for their lack of size and experience with bravado typically find themselves making a crucial mistake—invariably, they irritate a larger nation, who may or may not decide to squash them like flies. If you're lucky, you'll find a nation like me, who will squash you for your insolence, then take you out for the proverbial ice cream and show you how to avoid making that mistake in the future. If you're vastly unlucky, you'll get someone like my buddy Ralkovia, who will basically make you his personal plaything for the rest of your time on NationStates.

Need some tissues over there man?

Now, you don't have to be a pushover by any means. If people give you guff in the OOC, the best bet is to basically laugh them off. A good principle to live by here is that if someone is retarded enough to take this game personally, they're probably not worth hanging out with anyway, and simply move on from it.

In one of those curious internet things, not taking things seriously is something to take seriously. If you show emotion over something, the "STOP BEING SO SERIOUS" posts will fly. No, I can't explain it either.

[...] generally require you to either telegram the OP for permission (Semi-Open) or fill out an application in an OOC thread to join, or be outright invited (Semi-Closed).

This semantic distinction isn't even that distinct. "Semi-open"/"semi-closed" means whatever it says in the OP. I've seen such descriptions reversed before, and I've also seen the terms used synonymously.

2. A fabled problem is the size of your military.

I'm honestly tired of people spouting the "5%"/"2%"/"1%"/whatever myths. It's a relic of the days when the reason you had to have 200 million population to get nukes was because not that many people had 200 million and the old players wanted to enforce their tyranny on everyone else.

If you have a population of 17 billion people, 1% gives you a military of 170 million. This is unrealistically, stupidly large. If you have a population of 5 million, 1% gives you a military of 50,000. This is too small to be effective. Percentage of population is not important, since the requirements of a military force don't scale linearly. An army of 4 million men will not be ten times more expensive to train, feed and deploy than an army of 400,000; it will greatly exceed this due to the larger size of the support base required for the larger force.

If you're a realism stickler, look at the military of a real nation of approximately your RP size and scale/tinker appropriately. If you're not, all you need is a willingness to scale back: make up some random numbers and tell your RP partner "I don't know a whole lot about this stuff, does 500,000 troops sound realistic?"

4. Avoid getting noticed by the Moderation staff. If a red name appears in the post list of your threads, that's generally a bad thing 99.9% of the time. Avoid seeing red nation names, and you're probably doing okay.

You know, this general attitude also seems to explain quite a lot. Wonder why there are so few mod RPers -- presumably it's just a matter of not enough time.

I also second a fair bit of what Third Spanish States says.



This nitpick brought to you by the number π and the letter þ.

User avatar
New Azura
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5304
Founded: Jun 22, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby New Azura » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:46 pm

Dvardis wrote:
New Azura wrote:It's the most dreaded phrase for a new roleplayer to have attached to them here on the boards, especially in the International Incidents forum. If someone hits you with the "newb/noob" label, you can almost rest assured that your reputation will take a serious hit. In a game where cooperation and reputation mean so much to your gaming experience here at NationStates, you cannot afford to make a bad first impression!

This isn't really true. You can make a bad first impression and subsequently improve; people will take longer to warm up to you, but quite a lot of well-known RPers were n00bs at one point, complete with terribly-written one-liner RPs and disdain from old-timers. You just have to be willing to improve, which usually means having other people to look up to, which usually means working your way into an existing circlejerk.


Maybe in the old days, mate, but have you seen the stagnation on the boards lately? With the influx of the 2009 - 2011 class of roleplayers (which includes myself, by the way), the roleplaying community has become so fragmented and isolated, that making a bad impression off the bat nearly kills you dead from the start. I've got a perfect example in my friend Lintyland. Linty was a strange case, and was (forgive me, mate) a pretty horrible RPer when he first broke in. That, and being attached to an entire group of guys who got off onto the wrong foot (Judea) really broke any change Linty ever had of breaking into the game proper. And that guy, comparative to his beginnings, improved 1,000% while he was here. He just never got the breaks that he needed. Judea in particular is filled with '09-'11 nations who should've been apart of the core group of upper-echelon players by now, but bad timing and bad first impressions have basically stalled them out. This coming from a guy who is lucky to count them as friends in the OOC, too.

These days, you have to be exceptionally talented just to get into major cliques, which is about the only way you're going to see exceptional roleplaying. Most everything else is a mixture of mediocre to good roleplayers mixing it up with "newbs" and bullies.

Let's also be clear, that no matter how talented of a writer you are, you're going to have issues when you first start out in the game.

RP isn't about writing; it's about cooperation. This is something a lot of people miss.

And if you are good at cooperation and dealing with others, your issues will be largely limited to "finding people to RP with."


I don't care if you're joined at the hip; if you can't write a proper roleplay, you're going to crash and burn 100% of the time. Cooperation is an accessory to the roleplaying experience, but it's not the core component, no matter how hard people like Black Plains tries to argue otherwise.


Regardless of whether people begin to troll you (nag you with posts about your inexperience),

Why do people on this game like to yell "trolling!" so much? Nagging someone about inexperience isn't trolling, it's just being a twit.


I dunno, mate—you tell me. I just call 'em as I see 'em.

But just remember, that for every person who shoots you down, there are nations out there who have been where you're at now, and will gladly help you discover a few tricks of the trade, in order to have as much fun here on the boards as possible.

Meh, the writing of pompous newbie guides always struck me as rather masturbatory; helping new people have fun isn't the point imo.

Newbies tend to gravitate towards other newbies anyway, and that's always been the case more or less. Improvement on the cooperation front is usually best achieved that way. Half-decent writing comes later. Good and concise writing, avoiding pretentious formatting tricks, faux-Clancy militarywank and purple prose, comes latest or not at all. (I'm not all the way there myself, heh.)


So in your world, trying to help others is "pompous" and "masturbatory"? If so, I'd like to know where you live, so I can move there and set up a rainbow-colored picket fence around my gingerbread house. And by moving there, I mean avoiding like the plague.

But I'm all for the gingerbread house and the rainbow-colored picket fence, because you could use a little sunshine in your life mate.

New Azura wrote: The reason for this is because the proportion of jerks on the game, at least in the roleplaying community, is very low. You're more likely to find your next best online friend at NationStates than you are your arch rival. But the largest group of jerks in the game, sadly, can often be found in the nations who were formed within a calendar year of the current date.

Yeah, I want to help the newbies so I'll insult them obliquely.

Not that you're wrong, mind, but like I said -- I wouldn't pretend this is "for new players" in any way.


You're right, this isn't for new players. This is merely a guide of the things others have learned with great bitterness over the years—things that new players can avoid if they take the time to learn. I can see the light now, thanks.

The smallest nations are often handled by some of the most jerkish people. A large part of that revolves around their inexperience, and around one of the most damaging problems in the entire game. People value their nations too much, to the point of making them an extension of their real life personalities.

There are a lot of "highly respectable" RPers who also do this. In more subtle ways, mind, but it's still along the lines of "The X Empire has never lost a war and only my close OOC friend Y can possibly hope to challenge me militarily." Or "I hold Political View Z, therefore everyone in my nation also holds Political View Z except some irrelevant dissenters we are slowly destroying, and we compensate for all the drawbacks of a Z-ist nation with implausible means that I think would work in real life despite them obviously not."

There's also an "only [X ≤ current year - 3] nations are worthy!" siege-mentality among, well, almost everyone who's been around since X. Even unconsciously.

Basically I wouldn't break out the hearts and chocolate quite yet.


And I'm sure that people get murdered in Detroit all the time, but that doesn't mean Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police should cater anti-crime programs to the people of Detroit, does it? This guide was written for new players, not people who should know better by now.

If you approach the game with the mindset of having fun and meeting new people in your writing, then you're going to soar here.

Unless your idea of having fun involves anything "the community" doesn't like, such as three-kilometer supercapitals (lol irony) or anthro dinosaurs.


You mean... Anthro-Dinosaurs aren't jive? What rock have I been living under?

Small nations that make up for their lack of size and experience with bravado typically find themselves making a crucial mistake—invariably, they irritate a larger nation, who may or may not decide to squash them like flies. If you're lucky, you'll find a nation like me, who will squash you for your insolence, then take you out for the proverbial ice cream and show you how to avoid making that mistake in the future. If you're vastly unlucky, you'll get someone like my buddy Ralkovia, who will basically make you his personal plaything for the rest of your time on NationStates.

Need some tissues over there man?


No thanks, I have my Burger King Whopper wrapper from earlier. It was de-lish!

Now, you don't have to be a pushover by any means. If people give you guff in the OOC, the best bet is to basically laugh them off. A good principle to live by here is that if someone is retarded enough to take this game personally, they're probably not worth hanging out with anyway, and simply move on from it.

In one of those curious internet things, not taking things seriously is something to take seriously. If you show emotion over something, the "STOP BEING SO SERIOUS" posts will fly. No, I can't explain it either.


Anyone that gets worked up over a game is probably too attached to said game. The best policy is to treat NationStates as it should be treated—as a GAME. Perish the thought that the crap that goes on here actually happens in some bizarro universe.

[...] generally require you to either telegram the OP for permission (Semi-Open) or fill out an application in an OOC thread to join, or be outright invited (Semi-Closed).

This semantic distinction isn't even that distinct. "Semi-open"/"semi-closed" means whatever it says in the OP. I've seen such descriptions reversed before, and I've also seen the terms used synonymously.


There's a word that I want you to look up, called "generally". Thank you.

2. A fabled problem is the size of your military.

I'm honestly tired of people spouting the "5%"/"2%"/"1%"/whatever myths. It's a relic of the days when the reason you had to have 200 million population to get nukes was because not that many people had 200 million and the old players wanted to enforce their tyranny on everyone else.

If you have a population of 17 billion people, 1% gives you a military of 170 million. This is unrealistically, stupidly large. If you have a population of 5 million, 1% gives you a military of 50,000. This is too small to be effective. Percentage of population is not important, since the requirements of a military force don't scale linearly. An army of 4 million men will not be ten times more expensive to train, feed and deploy than an army of 400,000; it will greatly exceed this due to the larger size of the support base required for the larger force.

If you're a realism stickler, look at the military of a real nation of approximately your RP size and scale/tinker appropriately. If you're not, all you need is a willingness to scale back: make up some random numbers and tell your RP partner "I don't know a whole lot about this stuff, does 500,000 troops sound realistic?"


Who cares? What is the most commonly accepted form of the rule out there that people harp on? The 2-3% standard! No one ever said this game was a bastion for realism, for the simple omission of logistics alone in most war threads would be an egregious oversight in real life. This guide was for players that are looking to fit in, not conform to the new flavor of the month.

4. Avoid getting noticed by the Moderation staff. If a red name appears in the post list of your threads, that's generally a bad thing 99.9% of the time. Avoid seeing red nation names, and you're probably doing okay.

You know, this general attitude also seems to explain quite a lot. Wonder why there are so few mod RPers -- presumably it's just a matter of not enough time.


Your lengthy post explains quite a lot, too. What I'm getting at is if you're doing a bit of namecalling or arguing back and forth, the red names are going to start popping up in your threads. The fast track to DEAT'd-ville is to continually draw the attention of moderation with poor sportsmanship and etiquette. If they're roleplaying with you? Heck, go nuts.

I also second a fair bit of what Third Spanish States says.


Annnnd that is why you fail, my young apprentice.

This nitpick brought to you by the number π and the letter þ.


This response was brought to you by Kellogg's Frosted Corn Flakes: Theyyyyy're GRRRRRREAT!
THEEVENGUARDOFAZURA
UNEFLEURPOURLECOLOSSE

— A PROUD MEMBER OF GREATER DIENSTAD

THEDOMINIONOFTHERITHOS
CAPITAL:ISAURA (TSYION)DEMONYM:AZURGOVERNMENT:IMPERIAL THEOCRACYLANGUAGE:CIRAZUR

Her Graceful Excellence the Phaedra
CALIXTEIMARAUDER
By the Grace of the Lord God, the Daughter of Tsyion, Spirited Maiden, First Matron of House Vardanyan
Imperatrix of the Evenguard of Azura and Sovereign Over Her Dependencies, the Governess of Isaura
and the Defender of the Children of Azura


— Current Roleplays —
Congress of Ishikawa|Summit Tsyion 2016

— Multilateral Agreements —
CAPINTERN|Global Aerospace Trade Association|The Western Pact

— Controlled Nations —
Azura, Lexmark, New Azura

— Other Supported Regions —
Astyria (PT | MT), Teremara (P/MT | FT), The Local Cluster (FT)

— Roleplay Tech Levels —
[PT][MT][PMT][FT][FanT]

User avatar
New Azura
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5304
Founded: Jun 22, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby New Azura » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:01 pm

What I demonstrated in the previous post for everyone was an example of a technique that, while amusing and a bit off-kilter, will probably rile up most people when given the chance. His points, though in error for the most part in my estimation, are still his points, and he's entitled to them. Just remember that it's okay to try and diffuse the situation with humor if it's lighthearted. But if you're too pointed, you risk starting a flame session.

Remember, guys! As long as you're trying, You're Great!

Image
THEEVENGUARDOFAZURA
UNEFLEURPOURLECOLOSSE

— A PROUD MEMBER OF GREATER DIENSTAD

THEDOMINIONOFTHERITHOS
CAPITAL:ISAURA (TSYION)DEMONYM:AZURGOVERNMENT:IMPERIAL THEOCRACYLANGUAGE:CIRAZUR

Her Graceful Excellence the Phaedra
CALIXTEIMARAUDER
By the Grace of the Lord God, the Daughter of Tsyion, Spirited Maiden, First Matron of House Vardanyan
Imperatrix of the Evenguard of Azura and Sovereign Over Her Dependencies, the Governess of Isaura
and the Defender of the Children of Azura


— Current Roleplays —
Congress of Ishikawa|Summit Tsyion 2016

— Multilateral Agreements —
CAPINTERN|Global Aerospace Trade Association|The Western Pact

— Controlled Nations —
Azura, Lexmark, New Azura

— Other Supported Regions —
Astyria (PT | MT), Teremara (P/MT | FT), The Local Cluster (FT)

— Roleplay Tech Levels —
[PT][MT][PMT][FT][FanT]

User avatar
Dvardis
Envoy
 
Posts: 256
Founded: Jul 16, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Dvardis » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:41 pm

New Azura wrote:
Dvardis wrote:This isn't really true. You can make a bad first impression and subsequently improve; people will take longer to warm up to you, but quite a lot of well-known RPers were n00bs at one point, complete with terribly-written one-liner RPs and disdain from old-timers. You just have to be willing to improve, which usually means having other people to look up to, which usually means working your way into an existing circlejerk.


Maybe in the old days, mate, but have you seen the stagnation on the boards lately? With the influx of the 2009 - 2011 class of roleplayers (which includes myself, by the way), the roleplaying community has become so fragmented and isolated, that making a bad impression off the bat nearly kills you dead from the start.

The RP community has always been extremely fragmented. Hmm, no, I'm lying. It has been extremely fragmented ever since, say, the Underwater Bubble tripped peoples' sonar. And typically that's how people have gotten involved: attach yourself to one of those fragments, try to attract their attention, or start your own.

The issue is more that the "people to look up to" have barricaded themselves in their own regional forums due to insufficient II street cred, it seems. With a few exceptions.
I've got a perfect example in my friend Lintyland. Linty was a strange case, and was (forgive me, mate) a pretty horrible RPer when he first broke in. That, and being attached to an entire group of guys who got off onto the wrong foot (Judea) really broke any change Linty ever had of breaking into the game proper. And that guy, comparative to his beginnings, improved 1,000% while he was here. He just never got the breaks that he needed. Judea in particular is filled with '09-'11 nations who should've been apart of the core group of upper-echelon players by now, but bad timing and bad first impressions have basically stalled them out. This coming from a guy who is lucky to count them as friends in the OOC, too.

I don't know how those people act in OOC and thus can't form a judgment either way. That said, if they get along well with each other, the only real "hurdle" is in getting respect from older players -- and whether or not that's "worth it" is an entirely subjective judgment.

These days, you have to be exceptionally talented just to get into major cliques, which is about the only way you're going to see exceptional roleplaying. Most everything else is a mixture of mediocre to good roleplayers mixing it up with "newbs" and bullies.

RP is indeed very cliqueish. There's no good way around this, however.

RP isn't about writing; it's about cooperation. This is something a lot of people miss.

And if you are good at cooperation and dealing with others, your issues will be largely limited to "finding people to RP with."


I don't care if you're joined at the hip; if you can't write a proper roleplay, you're going to crash and burn 100% of the time. Cooperation is an accessory to the roleplaying experience, but it's not the core component, no matter how hard people like Black Plains tries to argue otherwise.

I'd say it is the core component, given that it's possible for a group of people to have fun with threads full of godmodding, number wanking and other verboten activities if OOC communication is good enough. Hell, my first RP involved number-wanking a 100 million nation into being a believable threat to a 4 billion nation and plenty of RPing of the other guy's stuff; neither of us cared that much.

No one will respect them for it, perhaps, but they're entirely free to do so. Key word is freeform RP.

Meh, the writing of pompous newbie guides always struck me as rather masturbatory; helping new people have fun isn't the point imo.

Newbies tend to gravitate towards other newbies anyway, and that's always been the case more or less. Improvement on the cooperation front is usually best achieved that way. Half-decent writing comes later. Good and concise writing, avoiding pretentious formatting tricks, faux-Clancy militarywank and purple prose, comes latest or not at all. (I'm not all the way there myself, heh.)


So in your world, trying to help others is "pompous" and "masturbatory"? If so, I'd like to know where you live, so I can move there and set up a rainbow-colored picket fence around my gingerbread house. And by moving there, I mean avoiding like the plague.

It's arguable how much "newbie guides" are actually designed for newbies. There's always a slight degree of posturing; trying to impress other old-timers or members of one's clique or just "hey look I'm so cool and experienced and know shit and look how helpful I'm being." This isn't just a problem with your thread. More or less every one has it (Black Plains' is about twice as masturbatory for instance). Even Euro's old, now standard guides had bits of it.

I'm not saying any stickies/"newbie's guides" should be discounted. I just think it's worth taking certain things into account. Like what would drive a player to write such a thing in the first place.

But I'm all for the gingerbread house and the rainbow-colored picket fence, because you could use a little sunshine in your life mate.

Yeah, I'm a cynic. Enough time spent on the internet will do that to people.

There are a lot of "highly respectable" RPers who also do this. In more subtle ways, mind, but it's still along the lines of "The X Empire has never lost a war and only my close OOC friend Y can possibly hope to challenge me militarily." Or "I hold Political View Z, therefore everyone in my nation also holds Political View Z except some irrelevant dissenters we are slowly destroying, and we compensate for all the drawbacks of a Z-ist nation with implausible means that I think would work in real life despite them obviously not."

There's also an "only [X ≤ current year - 3] nations are worthy!" siege-mentality among, well, almost everyone who's been around since X. Even unconsciously.

Basically I wouldn't break out the hearts and chocolate quite yet.


And I'm sure that people get murdered in Detroit all the time, but that doesn't mean Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police should cater anti-crime programs to the people of Detroit, does it? This guide was written for new players, not people who should know better by now.

If so, I don't see the benefit in giving them inaccurate information. Making your nation an extension of your real life self is not a mark of "n00bishness" (except in a perfect world). Established players aren't enlightened beings who have moved past this sort of thing, they're just Personalities with high enough charisma to bring others around them, or followers who've been accepted by said Personalities. One's actual conduct is a bit secondary.

Need some tissues over there man?


No thanks, I have my Burger King Whopper wrapper from earlier. It was de-lish!

That sounds... uncomfortable.

:P

In one of those curious internet things, not taking things seriously is something to take seriously. If you show emotion over something, the "STOP BEING SO SERIOUS" posts will fly. No, I can't explain it either.


Anyone that gets worked up over a game is probably too attached to said game. The best policy is to treat NationStates as it should be treated—as a GAME. Perish the thought that the crap that goes on here actually happens in some bizarro universe.

Yes, pretty much.

I'm honestly tired of people spouting the "5%"/"2%"/"1%"/whatever myths. It's a relic of the days when the reason you had to have 200 million population to get nukes was because not that many people had 200 million and the old players wanted to enforce their tyranny on everyone else.

If you have a population of 17 billion people, 1% gives you a military of 170 million. This is unrealistically, stupidly large. If you have a population of 5 million, 1% gives you a military of 50,000. This is too small to be effective. Percentage of population is not important, since the requirements of a military force don't scale linearly. An army of 4 million men will not be ten times more expensive to train, feed and deploy than an army of 400,000; it will greatly exceed this due to the larger size of the support base required for the larger force.

If you're a realism stickler, look at the military of a real nation of approximately your RP size and scale/tinker appropriately. If you're not, all you need is a willingness to scale back: make up some random numbers and tell your RP partner "I don't know a whole lot about this stuff, does 500,000 troops sound realistic?"


Who cares? What is the most commonly accepted form of the rule out there that people harp on? The 2-3% standard! No one ever said this game was a bastion for realism, for the simple omission of logistics alone in most war threads would be an egregious oversight in real life. This guide was for players that are looking to fit in, not conform to the new flavor of the month.

I actually have no idea what the most commonly accepted form of the rule is, since everyone comes out with a different percentage or just says "who cares, pull some numbers out of your ass and get on with it." 2-3% might well be the new flavour of the month; I know I've seen both 1-2% and 5-10% cited as "standards" in the past (regardless of economic status or government type or whatever). And as for the realism thing, I personally prefer the second option. Mutually agree on some random numbers and work with them. No hours spent poring over precisely how different your force composition is from the 5th Red Army. That's just boring.

You know, this general attitude also seems to explain quite a lot. Wonder why there are so few mod RPers -- presumably it's just a matter of not enough time.


Your lengthy post explains quite a lot, too.

... that I like to pick nits?

Don't make the mistake of thinking I'm actively hostile towards you and yours, or hate newbie guides or II cliques or whatever it is. Truthfully, I don't even RP that much anymore. I can tell you who was in the Saharistan War Coalition in 2005, but I can't name more than six or seven big RP regions nowadays.

What I'm getting at is if you're doing a bit of namecalling or arguing back and forth, the red names are going to start popping up in your threads. The fast track to DEAT'd-ville is to continually draw the attention of moderation with poor sportsmanship and etiquette. If they're roleplaying with you? Heck, go nuts.

... and I agree with all that, and was wondering about an unrelated point. Along with an oblique reference to all those "DOWN WITH MOD TYRANNY" signatures. Sort of like why people who live out in the country and only interact with the government come tax day and when the police show up on drug busts tend to be libertarians.

I also second a fair bit of what Third Spanish States says.


Annnnd that is why you fail, my young apprentice.

Young, pffft. I was complaining about the state of II these days back when you were still wondering when you'd get a custom pretitle. :P

This nitpick brought to you by the number π and the letter þ.


This response was brought to you by Kellogg's Frosted Corn Flakes: Theyyyyy're GRRRRRREAT!

I've never understood frosted flakes. Corn + powdered sugar = um.... good?

User avatar
Milograd
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5894
Founded: Feb 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Milograd » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:43 pm

I've already told you this Azura, but this is a wonderfully written guide. Great job.
Retired

User avatar
New Azura
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5304
Founded: Jun 22, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby New Azura » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:45 pm

To wit, I like to jack up my Corn Flakes with extra sugar, because Diabetes Can't Come Soon Enough!

But, to address what I think a pretty big difference between your point and mine—and correct me if I'm wrong—would require me to posit that we're targeting two different audiences. Your points are valid, if not misguided for this thread. I say that because you're instructing people on how to have fun with the game through means that are slightly different than what I'm trying to accomplish. You're giving a broad-based list of points that will allow new people (or anyone, really) the chance to play based on cooperation and community as the central focus, while I'm leaning more towards the writing aspect. In your way, you admit that you can have fun using noobish tactics, and that it isn't something to necessarily shy away from (my take). I agree, if that's where you want to go—my guide is catered towards those who don't want to go that route, however, and therein lies the big difference between us. But differences don't have to keep us apart; we'll just agree to disagree, I think.

And as far as the military point goes, the 2-3% rule has been pretty common in my experiences since 2009, with anything bordering 5-10% being considered "North Korea" levels. I've ran into this principle in numerous cliques, and in both "realistic" pop-capping regions and play as you are regions. Whether everyone uses it, I'd obviously not be the one to ask, but it's common enough to be a good rule of thumb.
THEEVENGUARDOFAZURA
UNEFLEURPOURLECOLOSSE

— A PROUD MEMBER OF GREATER DIENSTAD

THEDOMINIONOFTHERITHOS
CAPITAL:ISAURA (TSYION)DEMONYM:AZURGOVERNMENT:IMPERIAL THEOCRACYLANGUAGE:CIRAZUR

Her Graceful Excellence the Phaedra
CALIXTEIMARAUDER
By the Grace of the Lord God, the Daughter of Tsyion, Spirited Maiden, First Matron of House Vardanyan
Imperatrix of the Evenguard of Azura and Sovereign Over Her Dependencies, the Governess of Isaura
and the Defender of the Children of Azura


— Current Roleplays —
Congress of Ishikawa|Summit Tsyion 2016

— Multilateral Agreements —
CAPINTERN|Global Aerospace Trade Association|The Western Pact

— Controlled Nations —
Azura, Lexmark, New Azura

— Other Supported Regions —
Astyria (PT | MT), Teremara (P/MT | FT), The Local Cluster (FT)

— Roleplay Tech Levels —
[PT][MT][PMT][FT][FanT]

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to International Incidents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kyneland, Newark Aristocracy, Noronica, The Isle of Beithe, Waratendia

Advertisement

Remove ads