by Farrakhan » Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:46 pm
by Western Lovia Sun » Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:12 pm
by Western Lovia Sun » Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:13 pm
by Haruhi Japan » Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:35 pm
by Riemstagrad » Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:33 am
by Farrakhan » Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:36 am
Western Lovia Sun wrote:I'm not sure if the trading card date was something that was advertised; if it was, perhaps that is something that can be advertised more loudly in the future? If I'm being candid, I am beyond bummed that I don't have a season 3 card, having been a long-time player, as you mentioned, whose nation temporarily expired. Additionally, my season 2 card bears the default flag, much to my chagrin, as I had not uploaded, reuploaded, my flag in time.
An option to pay, as a means to help support NS, is an idea. Although, I admit, it's not an idea that I would be able to afford. I did make the site supporter purchase for sans-ads, but I would not have the means to make a new purchase. I renewed my nation only recently, but not by November 12th. So, again, missed the date and this is my third season. .
Western Lovia Sun wrote:I'm my mind, this creates a few ideas/options:
1) Not force the trading cards to be available at a cost. Instead, market the impending deadline more obviously.
2) Do make trading cards available at cost.
3) Do make trading cards available at cost. However, as an add-on to one of the already existing purchase options.
Western Lovia Sun wrote:I do have a question for you. Do you mean to have a nation's personal trading card exist as something that would be purchased? Or complete access to the trading card game?
So far, Western Lovia Sun votes for Option 1.
Western Lovia Sun wrote:Also, thank you for your post! This was certainly on my mind.
by Farrakhan » Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:39 am
Haruhi Japan wrote:I believe this would be an interesting alternative to generating cards. The question is how long would this be available to players to buy? Also wouldn't this give these players an advantage because they can grind for stats before they generate their card so their rarity increases?
by Farrakhan » Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:40 am
Riemstagrad wrote:The one problem that concerns me at first sight: All those broken collections...
Imagine the player who returns is from the region Forest and qualifies for epic rarity. If that happens late on the season that will break a lot of complete collections.
by Doge Tax Collector » Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:44 am
by Tinhampton » Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:09 am
by Yukimura » Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:08 am
by Farrakhan » Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:05 am
Doge Tax Collector wrote:I'm not exactly sure how to feel about this, sure we're probably never gonna see a season 4 ever happen, but collections would of course, as stated from Riemstagrad, would be kind of feel janky, and would be left to uncertainty if there were suddenly a new batch of cards with flags/region to be filled into the collection, it would basically be a completionists nightmare to try and get done and stay done.
The idea to me is quite unique though. And of course would maybe bring a bit more money into the site's wallet.
Am I personally against this? Ehh..not really, but I'm on the fence if this could actually work out.
But who knows, I'm just some crazed doge man for cards.
by Farrakhan » Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:06 am
Yukimura wrote:In a traditional trading card game, such as pokemon which I'm most familiar with, the creators will release 3-4 sets a year, to keep the cards fresh and keep people spending money to try to collect all of them, or to collect the rarest ones, or to collect the ones that are best for battling.
However, those sets are each in their entirety much smaller than a single season of NS Cards. For example the upcoming Crown Zenith Pokemon expansion, which will be the first of four new sets to premier in 2023 will contain 160 new cards (plus an unknown number of secret rares), the largest of the new sets will have about 190 new cards (plus an unknown number of secret rares). Whereas a single season of NationStates cards contains thousands of cards. So there is not really a need to release new cards to keep things fresh. You could open ten packs of NationStates cards a day, every day of the year, and even if you saw no repeat cards you would still see only a fraction of the cards in a season.
Because of the impossibly large size of a NationStates season, there is no reason to generate new cards, or to allow new designs of existing cards to enter the market, midseason. In fact the pokemon TCG would need to put out ~1700 new sets a year to match the volume of NationStates cards that are generated in a single season. There is an argument that could be made for such abundance being a good thing, but in reality its something of a nightmare for collectors as burnout is a very real thing that many collectors experience. Plus with such a wide array of available cards, it can make the task of collecting even a small group of cards a daunting task, as there is no guarantee that you will ever pull a particular card, and if it's a particularly rare card there is no guarantee that you will ever be able to buy it.
While the protracted nature of s2 of cards was soul crushing, and I don't recommend that the same length of time be applied to the generation of future seasons of NS cards, even generating one season of cards a year makes collecting them nearly impossible unless you're someone who is willing to spend every moment of their time opening cards, because you'd need to open ~165 packs a day (with no repeat cards) to collect every NationStates card.
Edit: all of my math is based on a certain degree of guesswork, as I don't know exactly how many cards there are in each NationStates season.
by Farrakhan » Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:15 am
Tinhampton wrote:I have some questions about how mid-season inscription (MSI) will work.
- MSI is not actually an inscription process. Inscription does not create a card of your nation: it already existed on the day those cards were generated. It merely allows you to change custom fields and badges, such as your flag. Will MSI be available for all nations, or only those without cards on inscription day? And can you purchase and use MSI for a single nation as often as you want?
Tinhampton wrote:ICan S1 and S2 cards be created through MSI, or will MSI only offer inscription for the current season of cards (as of time of purchase)?
Tinhampton wrote:IVarious puppet nations that were caught in S3's puppet filter were told they could not have cards of their nations generated. Will MSI allow those puppets to generate cards?
Tinhampton wrote:Since MSI "would create a wildcard option for collectors to seek out additional in-season Nation artwork:" do you propose any visual distinctions between a card inscribed on November 12th 2022 and a card inscribed mid-season? There is a difference between a card such as Minalarr (which actually had 5m population on inscription day) and my throwaway puppet (which I created ten months after S3 went live and literally just spent 87p on inscribing a few minutes ago).
Tinhampton wrote:How will rarities be generated, or do you - for example - just propose a special "Mid-Season" rarity? When cards returned in December 2018, all national badges were updated to what they were as of December 2018, but the rarities of the cards did not change (Sacara and The Wallenburgian World Assembly Offices are my favourite examples of this), and no new cards were created for nations that existed in December 2018 but not for the April Fool's minigame.
Tinhampton wrote:Also: Suppose that Season 4 cards are inscribed on March 6th 2024. In the news post announcing S4, Max announces that the S5 inscription period will begin on April 22nd 2025. (This is arguably the maximal notice possible for S5.) Why is this less fair to new and returning players then allowing them to just spend money to create a new Season 4 card, other than because they could miss the S5 deadline? You admit in the OP that MSI is designed to relieve "players who don't have their own cards and are left without a precise time frame for when they could get one."
by Coffin-Breathe » Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:13 pm
by Farrakhan » Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:10 pm
Coffin-Breathe wrote:If I came out of a deep coma recently, I would have a lot of other problems than to buy me a flag card for a new season of the NS card-game, I guess.
Coffin-Breathe wrote:Besides, real money shouldn´t have any place within NS or the card game; this was/is the intention NS was founded by Max, as I see and understand it.
Coffin-Breathe wrote:Otherwise we would have to buy our accounts, expansions, card packs and other privileges, like in many other 'pay to play' games, and the mods/admins would be employed and paid for it.
by Western Lovia Sun » Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:06 am
by Farrakhan » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:13 pm
Western Lovia Sun wrote:I fancy this. A lot. I think you've presented a concise outline, and that we've covered all of the, "what-ifs" that I'm able to fathom. A delightfully linear thought pattern this post is. That being said, where do we go from here to push this? I'm unfamiliar with NS's process. Is there somewhere we can make a submission, or do we bring an admin into the thread? How can we gain traction?
by The Atlae Isles » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:54 pm
by Tinhampton » Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:54 am
Farrakhan wrote:Coffin-Breathe wrote:Besides, real money shouldn´t have any place within NS or the card game; this was/is the intention NS was founded by Max, as I see and understand it.
I'm not sure when the Store was introduced into Nationstates, but the use of real money has been a part of Max's site for quite some time.Coffin-Breathe wrote:Otherwise we would have to buy our accounts, expansions, card packs and other privileges, like in many other 'pay to play' games, and the mods/admins would be employed and paid for it.
The Store offers multiple pay-to-play elements already. For example, purchasing Supporter ($2.99) provides the privileges of removing ads, permanently reserving a nation name, gaining the supporter Trophy, and doubling Trading Cards deck capacity.
Postmaster ($4.99) offers additional privileges: expanded folder telegram capacity, creating custom folders, and a deleted items folder.
Finally, Postmaster-General ($9.99) extends pay-to-play privileges with unlimited Telegrams and 500 Telegram stamps. There is also a recurring pay-to-play product in the form of Telegram Stamps (to send mass telegrams to mention nations at once at $1 per 1000).
Whether this was or wasn't Max's original intent, this has already been happening.
by One Small Island » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:36 pm
by LucaBrasi » Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:14 pm
One Small Island wrote:Isn't it logistically impossible to give a nation that wasn't around at the time of the snapshot a card?
by The first Galactic Republic » Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:52 am
by Shogunate Tamriel » Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:04 pm
by The United Peoples of Centrism » Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:23 pm
The Atlae Isles wrote:I imagine as it currently stands, it would be technically impossible because the trading card dumps are advertised as virtually unchanging. The ability to change cards mid season would render the giant XML file obsolete and render many collections in flux.
However, in general, I would be in favor of this change. Personally, I have a few nations whose cards I was unable to change before the inscription deadline, thus have the default flag. I think, if this feature is implemented, that the trading card dumps could be given daily just like the nation and region dumps, and those that make tools would have to retrieve the most current one.
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