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Two DV Leaderboards - Over and Under

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:47 am
by Benevolent Earth
If the deck capacity rules were to remains unchanged in S3, then I feel in fairness the over capacity nations should compete against themselves in a different bracket.

This should also encourage up and coming players to keep their Decks within their purchased capacity.

Therefore I'm suggesting two DV leader boards. The first and longest listing would rank all nations which are at or under their deck capacity, DV-Under.

The second and shorter listing would rank all nations which are over their deck capacity, DV-Over.

The big players could still choose to compete on both boards by keeping a separate nation in compliance within deck capacity. I think it's a good idea and might be easy to implement. What are your thoughts?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:15 am
by The Unified Missourtama States
Having a different leaderboard for below deck capacity would encourage inflation.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:21 am
by Benevolent Earth
Other measures will probably address inflation.

viewtopic.php?p=39132152#p39132152

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:49 am
by Coffin-Breathe
Very nice idea - I would support this, while in fact, I though would prefer another solution to "overstocking", like making this abusement totally impossible.
A time ago someone proposed to separate already existing real "volume (collection) decks" created by "overstocking" in a way they could exist furthermore (declared) : no more deckspace limit for them, but also no more participation in the market in any way, and only being able to be expanded by gifted cards without the ability to gift cards from (what is in such an "oversized" collection stays there). This would only concern players with, I´d say "collections" of a thousand or more cards, which are really collecting, not stashing and amassing.
On top of it, this would also reduce the value of "hoarding specific cards" for later inflating, because such "stored inflation hoards" of any card would be limited by "payed" deck space or even negated by the impossibility of trading normally for declared "volume decks/collections" (at least, if they are also excluded from the "normal" art-badge list).

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:05 am
by Fauzjhia
sure, Benevolent is against inflation.

you care to explain this while you are at it.
Image


because, for me, its very simply. you are committing (inflation), taking advantage of the abolition of pull events.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:40 am
by Coffin-Breathe
Yes, of course he does - just like every other "big farmer" or "inflater" (already does or surely will do), as suspected, but that´s a legal act (transaction with minimal risk based on card scarcity).
Now, would you two please stop your "private wars" of mutual recriminations (as amusing as they sometimes might be for others) and "grudge-based accusations" and find back to serious propositions to better/save the game (since I assume the basically good intentions of everyone posting in here). Thank you.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:24 am
by Benevolent Earth
Coffin-Breathe wrote:Very nice idea - I would support this, while in fact, I though would prefer another solution to "overstocking", like making this abusement totally impossible.
A time ago someone proposed to separate already existing real "volume (collection) decks" created by "overstocking" in a way they could exist furthermore (declared) : no more deckspace limit for them, but also no more participation in the market in any way, and only being able to be expanded by gifted cards without the ability to gift cards from (what is in such an "oversized" collection stays there). This would only concern players with, I´d say "collections" of a thousand or more cards, which are really collecting, not stashing and amassing.
On top of it, this would also reduce the value of "hoarding specific cards" for later inflating, because such "stored inflation hoards" of any card would be limited by "payed" deck space or even negated by the impossibility of trading normally for declared "volume decks/collections" (at least, if they are also excluded from the "normal" art-badge list).


Well, thank you. Thought it up while enjoying a morning cup of Green Tea.

The overstocking idea was probably one of mine but i don't think the deck cap is changing much. Nor do I think DV will go away, but we can discern between decks that are under limit or over limit. Easy to do.

As for the other, i don't pay him any attention anymore. Dear me.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:27 pm
by Panagouge
Will we always agree with Benevolent's ideas? No.

Should we respect him and engage in a civil discussion? Yes.

Any change ever proposed will always have advantages and detriments. The point of any discussion is to reach a compromise; minimize the cons and set up a way to manage them moving forward.

Creating two leaderboards based on deck capacity isn't a bad idea. It allows major farmers to shine just as much as less equipped farmers. Inflation, unless directly addressed, will never stop being a problem no matter what you do. In my opinion, it is, therefore, baseless to strike down an idea on the concept of inflation unless it can be reasonably demonstrated that it will have a serious effect. Of course, what counts as proof shall always be subjective. That is the entire point of the debate.

Convincing the admins to implement new features-now that is the real battle.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:13 pm
by Giraffeton
I just love when Benevolent Earth posts a topic cause the replies are always so very entertaining.

Anyway how do people even have decks larger then their deck capacity?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:57 pm
by One Small Island
Giraffeton wrote:I just love when Benevolent Earth posts a topic cause the replies are always so very entertaining.

Anyway how do people even have decks larger then their deck capacity?

If you buy cards at auction you can go over deck capacity.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:34 pm
by Panagouge
Giraffeton wrote:I just love when Benevolent Earth posts a topic cause the replies are always so very entertaining.

Anyway how do people even have decks larger then their deck capacity?

I concur with this statement. Reading moderation is additionally entertaining.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:39 pm
by Coffin-Breathe
One Small Island wrote:
Giraffeton wrote:Anyway how do people even have decks larger then their deck capacity?

If you buy cards at auction you can go over deck capacity.

But at a price - if you "overstock", you neither can open any further packs, nor can you receive "gifts". And of course it`s an abusement of the "system" and quite unfair to all the people "playing by the rules" and therefore struggling to pay their steadily rising expansion costs.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:17 pm
by Fauzjhia
This is the list of all nations who have more then 1000 cards
Image

look at this, and tell me, Do we REALLY need to have two dv leaderboards ?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:32 pm
by Giraffeton
Coffin-Breathe wrote:
One Small Island wrote:If you buy cards at auction you can go over deck capacity.

But at a price - if you "overstock", you neither can open any further packs, nor can you receive "gifts". And of course it`s an abusement of the "system" and quite unfair to all the people "playing by the rules" and therefore struggling to pay their steadily rising expansion costs.


well yes, cause I today pretty much spent all of my bank just to get a deck expansion

like why is it even that expensive in the first place? why can't it linearly increase instead of exponentially

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:55 am
by Roadkill-Cafe
Why is 1000 cards tossed in here as an artificial line? The OP mentioned nothing about 1000 cards as a threshold.

There are numerous nations under 1000 cards which are over their deck capacity. Having under 1000 cards does not dismiss these nations existence.

Many of these nations have various specialized card collections. I am one of them.

An over deck capacity leaderboard can make these nations easier to find.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:46 am
by Coffin-Breathe
Giraffeton wrote:like why is it even that expensive in the first place? why can't it linearly increase instead of exponentially

Originally this was meant as a measurement to prevent overboarding "large collections" and "hoarding cards", so my guess; well meant by "the creators of the game", but since they didn´t close the "loophole" of overstocking it lead greatly to "system abusement" and unbalancing the game as it´s easily "bypassed" by "overstocking" and "feeder puppets".
Btw, not to forget that this is one of the reasons for the existing server problems (in combination with some scripts and the almost uncountable ammount of "feeding, storing and/or farming puppets".

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:52 am
by Coffin-Breathe
Fauzjhia wrote:This is the list of all nations who have more then 1000 cards
look at this, and tell me, Do we REALLY need to have two dv leaderboards ?

Yes, we do, though my personal opinion is, that we (the system) should abolish this "leaderboard" completely, together with the "valuable artwork badge".

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:18 am
by Fauzjhia
Coffin-Breathe wrote:
Fauzjhia wrote:This is the list of all nations who have more then 1000 cards
look at this, and tell me, Do we REALLY need to have two dv leaderboards ?

Yes, we do, though my personal opinion is, that we (the system) should abolish this "leaderboard" completely, together with the "valuable artwork badge".


Always been in favor of abolishing the leaderboard and the artwork badge.
although you must realize that not a lot of player have ridiculous collection on a single nation. (puppets storage bypass this true)
however, I am sure you notice that even the person assigned to card development has committed this (sin) you speak, by having more then 24 000 cards.
many players just stopped paying for deck capacity because it cost too much.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:52 am
by Coffin-Breathe
Frisbeeteria, as far as I know, is "a mod", not "assigned to card development"...
And, as stated above, my assumption is, that the continually rising costs for card space were invented as a measurement to prevent or at least make it incredibly hard to "hoard and amass cards" on a nation about a certain (realistically affordable) limit; furthermore I´d say, paid deck space of 1000 is affordable even for a "non-farming, single" nation like mine, given enough time (about two years) and effort (+ "site supporter), if going for a themed collection and not "amassing legendaries".
And as a last point, I have to change your question to "Must there really exist collections like every epic, ultra-rare, rare or even uncommon and common card" ? Of "a certain region", if said region contains thousands of nations ? Goals that are, of course, (usually) only achievable by abusing "the system" (overstocking, uncountable "card farms", scripting and the like), which generates almost all of the existing server problems. I´d say, that´s not the way how this game was intended to go, and for sure not the way this game was meant to become (as an almost exclusive playground for a few dozen mainly).

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:04 am
by Christ Triumphant
Fauzjhia wrote:This is the list of all nations who have more then 1000 cards
(Image)

look at this, and tell me, Do we REALLY need to have two dv leaderboards ?


Out of curiosity, what does the "C" column represent on that spreadsheet?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:15 am
by Coffin-Breathe
I guess, that´s the "deck space paid for" (without "site supporter")

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:40 am
by Christ Triumphant
Coffin-Breathe wrote:I guess, that´s the "deck space paid for" (without "site supporter")


Ah, that hadn't occurred to me, but the numbers check out.

Cheers!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:10 am
by Fauzjhia
Coffin-Breathe wrote:Frisbeeteria, as far as I know, is "a mod", not "assigned to card development"...
And, as stated above, my assumption is, that the continually rising costs for card space were invented as a measurement to prevent or at least make it incredibly hard to "hoard and amass cards" on a nation about a certain (realistically affordable) limit; furthermore I´d say, paid deck space of 1000 is affordable even for a "non-farming, single" nation like mine, given enough time (about two years) and effort (+ "site supporter), if going for a themed collection and not "amassing legendaries".
And as a last point, I have to change your question to "Must there really exist collections like every epic, ultra-rare, rare or even uncommon and common card" ? Of "a certain region", if said region contains thousands of nations ? Goals that are, of course, (usually) only achievable by abusing "the system" (overstocking, uncountable "card farms", scripting and the like), which generates almost all of the existing server problems. I´d say, that´s not the way how this game was intended to go, and for sure not the way this game was meant to become (as an almost exclusive playground for a few dozen mainly).


read this : https://www.nationstates.net/page=news/ ... index.html before saying non-sense, or thing that are not
Frisbeeteria was assigned to card development.

your wrong, a region can be complete without scripting. scripts is used to answer issues faster then normally, but its not that necessary to buy cards. its just faster, because farmer do not care about the stats of their puppets.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:02 pm
by Giraffeton
Coffin-Breathe wrote:Frisbeeteria, as far as I know, is "a mod", not "assigned to card development"...
And, as stated above, my assumption is, that the continually rising costs for card space were invented as a measurement to prevent or at least make it incredibly hard to "hoard and amass cards" on a nation about a certain (realistically affordable) limit; furthermore I´d say, paid deck space of 1000 is affordable even for a "non-farming, single" nation like mine, given enough time (about two years) and effort (+ "site supporter), if going for a themed collection and not "amassing legendaries".
And as a last point, I have to change your question to "Must there really exist collections like every epic, ultra-rare, rare or even uncommon and common card" ? Of "a certain region", if said region contains thousands of nations ? Goals that are, of course, (usually) only achievable by abusing "the system" (overstocking, uncountable "card farms", scripting and the like), which generates almost all of the existing server problems. I´d say, that´s not the way how this game was intended to go, and for sure not the way this game was meant to become (as an almost exclusive playground for a few dozen mainly).


My opinion is that the card capacity should increase by like 1 bank each time cause I like collecting lots of quite worthless cards and shouldn't have to worry about not having enough deck capacity or not having enough bank to expand my deck. And I most certainly shouldn't have to overstock my deck just so I can have all my cards in one place.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:50 pm
by Ioavollr
Fauzjhia wrote:This is the list of all nations who have more then 1000 cards
(Image)

look at this, and tell me, Do we REALLY need to have two dv leaderboards ?


This list is incomplete. Scandinavian Card Vault, for instance, had 1450+ cards on the 13th of November.