Benevolent Earth Plan for Disincentivizing Card Farming

[One Small Island]

One small Island left the trading cards discord I am in.

This is incorrect, I have never been a part of any trading cards discord.

[Captain Woodhouse]

sadly, it seem TACLS is the only way to find more copies of such rare cards today.

Cheating is the only way to find more copies of such rare cards. Now tell me why you're compelled to cheat to generate more copies of Marnady cards? How many will satisfy you?

What is it with you guys? Were y'all hooked on GB Pokemon Red or Blue some fifteen or twenty years ago? Were y'all brainwashed into thinking all card games were suppose to be about the cheats and hack codes? It sure seems that way.

That made me laugh big time.

Your hostility toward the instant gratification driven cheats, hacks and scripts skep (laboring day and night under the delusion that cheating is a good thing; unobtainable cards are bad) calls to mind the Whitman Lincoln Head Cent folder I inherited from my old man. Five unfilled circles remain in his collection. I could buy the pennies to complete the folder, but that would be sacrilege. I know my father must have derived a good deal of pleasure and satisfaction collecting his pennies over the course of many years. Knowing him, the empty spaces provided more aim than regret. Something to shoot for.

The old "nothing worth having comes easy" mentality ain't too popular these days.

Regarding your disincentivizing plan: I'm all for voluntary reduction of card-farming pups, and voluntarily terminating all the cheats and scripts that have degraded the game for so many. Your space renewal fees, however, would hurt casual players who don't pull cards all the livelong day to acquire that kind of bank. For instance, I've many collections on puppets. I typically answer issues on most of my collection puppets once a week. One such collection is at 250 cards. The deck upgrade is 25.00. It's taken me months to acquire half that.

[Fauzjhia]

sadly, it seem TACLS is the only way to find more copies of such rare cards today.

Cheating is the only way to find more copies of such rare cards. Now tell me why you're compelled to cheat to generate more copies of Marnady cards? How many will satisfy you?

IN contradiction to what you seem to believe, I am quite happy with the copies I have right now.
but there are other s1 cards.
Like your own s1 card. and the only way to find these cards, is TACLS right now.
barring tacls. you forget any chance or ever find s1 captain woodhouse

[Captain Woodhouse]

Like your own s1 card. and the only way to find these cards, is TACLS right now.
barring tacls. you forget any chance or ever find s1 captain woodhouse

I collect art and antiques irl. I dig unique and rare shit. Kinda hard to swallow the cards' "international artwork" designation at this point. I've 23 copies of my S1 card. More than enough for me.

[Coffin-Breathe]

Like your own s1 card. and the only way to find these cards, is TACLS right now.
barring tacls. you forget any chance or ever find s1 captain woodhouse

Ever came to mind, that the whole game is based on rarity and/or scarcity of cards ? As well as on the fact, that storage space is limited, and its expansion becomes more and more expensive, the bigger it becomes.

[Fauzjhia]

Like your own s1 card. and the only way to find these cards, is TACLS right now.
barring tacls. you forget any chance or ever find s1 captain woodhouse

Ever came to mind, that the whole game is based on rarity and/or scarcity of cards ? As well as on the fact, that storage space is limited, and its expansion becomes more and more expensive, the bigger it becomes.

that is obviously in my mind.
I just have trouble (junking my own cards)

however, I think this should be reviewed as the current is just too expensive, and it does not prevent players from ignoring deck capacity

however, I can tell you, that I believe I reached the limit of my season 1 cards, I bought all that I can think off.
I am not looking to gain even more cards. I am perfectly happy with what I have.

[Giovenith]

1 you seem to be just as bored as me. if you are present here to answer everyone who post in your topic.

I am significantly older and very likely wiser than you. Benevolent Lifeforms live longer. I've spent my time doing many things in life. Exploring the world around me, college, having a spouse, children, jobs. I've gotten in fights, played rough sports and made a lotta of love, oo-la-la! I've even shaken hands with a sitting President of the USA, though he was standing at the time. He's one of those two POTUS that actually admitted to seeing a UFO. So sorry Charlie, but i'm never bored like you.

/snip

Well, Fauz, you and the Hive can run and run and run if you want to. But y'all can't hide from your deeds. At this point it's almost like a famous movie plot, an old Film Noir... He Ran All the Way with James Garfield. What a performance! Body and Soul fits this pretty well too.
The Postman Always Rings Twice was an illustrative one too. You got yourself a woman? Perhaps you should consider watching these James Garfield movies. Theyre entertaining and it'll give you something to do. You even could learn what's what.

Listen Gal, now that you mention it... you are just like Fauz. ngl.
An extremely egocentric group has played this game rudely and are the truly self absorbed. It has shown in their game tactics which are at the root of the card game's problems. What is it with you guys? Were y'all hooked on GB Pokemon Red or Blue some fifteen or twenty years ago? Were y'all brainwashed into thinking all card games were suppose to be about the cheats and hack codes? It sure seems that way. What a pedantic bunch to be unleashed upon the real world. Except, here's the catch... you'll have to go outside and face others.

The goal of this idea is to circumvent the drawing of worthless puppet farm cards


you know.
let your puppet cte, that will prevent the game from printing 300 cards i always junk. that be a good start.
otherwise this is just being an hypocrite, crying at others, : CTE YOUR card farms, your puppets are ugly, but mine are good
no, they are any better then their, puppets are puppets.

The trouble here is self regulation doesn't work so I don't think so, Pinocchio.

Acronym Nazi, much?
Look.. calm down, Fauz. Go outside and let the wind blow the stink of you. If applicable.

Benevolent doesn't care about casual players, they just really hate the people who've dared to have deck values higher than theirs.

Edit: Forgot I was on a puppet. It's One Small Island

Evidently, you forgot everything and are talking out your Hive hole.

<snip>

EDIT : since One Small Island abort this question it stand to reason that Benevolent 1 has 91,461.80 that's more then 5 my own deck value.
and he has plenty of inflated cards, he does not has any lesson to give other on inflating cards.

No doubt as you say... "One Small Island abort this question". Alright, Mr. Acronym nazi. That'll do... you're done here.

They're all S1 cards I've had for years. You fail to mention my deck capacity, which is at 1000 and paid. I've been told by other players that deck has a good balance.

There are a lot of cards we collected derived from nations which Mikeswill created. That's bc I like his cards. They aren't the contrived rubbish which yours are. Like, Mike does The Beatles and you do the Dung Beatles.

Mike TG'd me back in Jan 2019 and told me he thought I had more of his cards than any other player. I told him why that was the case. Ask him, if you dare.

*** Warned for Flaming and Flamebaiting ***


You need to drop this garbage attitude problem, now. Speaking to other players in this manner is NOT acceptable here.

Focus less on this proposal of yours and more on reading our rules and the Moderation subforum to get a grip on what kind of behavior is expected of you.

[Benevolent Earth]

sadly, it seem TACLS is the only way to find more copies of such rare cards today.

Cheating is the only way to find more copies of such rare cards. Now tell me why you're compelled to cheat to generate more copies of Marnady cards? How many will satisfy you?

???

What is it with you guys? Were y'all hooked on GB Pokemon Red or Blue some fifteen or twenty years ago? Were y'all brainwashed into thinking all card games were suppose to be about the cheats and hack codes? It sure seems that way.

That made me laugh big time.



Your hostility toward the instant gratification driven cheats, hacks and scripts skep (laboring day and night under the delusion that cheating is a good thing; unobtainable cards are bad) calls to mind the Whitman Lincoln Head Cent folder I inherited from my old man. Five unfilled circles remain in his collection. I could buy the pennies to complete the folder, but that would be sacrilege. I know my father must have derived a good deal of pleasure and satisfaction collecting his pennies over the course of many years. Knowing him, the empty spaces provided more aim than regret. Something to shoot for.

The old "nothing worth having comes easy" mentality ain't too popular these days.

Regarding your disincentivizing plan: I'm all for voluntary reduction of card-farming pups, and voluntarily terminating all the cheats and scripts that have degraded the game for so many. Your space renewal fees, however, would hurt casual players who don't pull cards all the livelong day to acquire that kind of bank. For instance, I've many collections on puppets. I typically answer issues on most of my collection puppets once a week. One such collection is at 250 cards. The deck upgrade is 25.00. It's taken me months to acquire half that.[/quote]

I think the Ringo Starr song lyrics "You gotta pay your dues if you wanna sing the blues and you know it don't come easy" address the overall problem here. The skids are greased for certain players styles and walls are built against others. The disincentivizing plan is flawed as it's trying to work around the two redistribution methods. Where one (gifting) is a 100% fee and the other (buying cards at auction) is free and immune from deck capacity limits. This dynamic is the first root cause of the card game's imbalance. The other cause has been the bugs. Early on, the region in which a nation resided could afford players unfair draw advantages, this was fixed during the 8 month S1 shutdown. But it was immediately followed by the advent of the auction with TALCS (card duplicating system) which has been far worse.

Like your own s1 card. and the only way to find these cards, is TACLS right now.
barring tacls. you forget any chance or ever find s1 captain woodhouse

Ever came to mind, that the whole game is based on rarity and/or scarcity of cards ? As well as on the fact, that storage space is limited, and its expansion becomes more and more expensive, the bigger it becomes.

Trouble is a bunch of players have abandoned making card draws within their main BECAUSE they won't pay the additional deck space price.

Thus they use these card farms for their draws, launder those cards through the auction, simultaneously inflating the value of these cards with card farm puppets, while avoiding the high cost of adding deck space or the 100% fee for gifting.

However, this chain can be broken be disabling the mechanism which allows cards won at auction to enter over capacity decks and installing a suitable fee at auction.

[Fauzjhia]

Ever came to mind, that the whole game is based on rarity and/or scarcity of cards ? As well as on the fact, that storage space is limited, and its expansion becomes more and more expensive, the bigger it becomes.

Trouble is a bunch of players have abandoned making card draws within their main BECAUSE they won't pay the additional deck space price.

Thus they use these card farms for their draws, launder those cards through the auction to avoid high cost of adding deck space or the price of gifting.

However, this chain can be broken be disabling the mechanism which allows cards won at auction to enter over capacity decks.

how do you have any proof that players stop playing cards because the top player will not pay their deck expension ?
that is just an assumption on your part.
we all know koem kab, mikeswill and giovanni have ridiculous deck, but to claim those deck are preventing players from playing, is something else.
you won't get anything by collecting cards, you won't gain a trophy, all you get is a non-meta badge. its all for its own fun.

[Shady Characters]

Ever came to mind, that the whole game is based on rarity and/or scarcity of cards ? As well as on the fact, that storage space is limited, and its expansion becomes more and more expensive, the bigger it becomes.

Trouble is a bunch of players have abandoned making card draws within their main BECAUSE they won't pay the additional deck space price.

Thus they use these card farms for their draws, launder those cards through the auction, simultaneously inflating the value of these cards with card farm puppets, while avoiding the high cost of adding deck space or the 100% fee for gifting.

However, this chain can be broken by disabling the mechanism which allows cards won at auction to enter over capacity decks and installing a suitable fee at auction.

Say what? Cards get into decks witch are over the limit from auction? That's so wack.

[Fauzjhia]

there is no reason for me to gravedig fris' bad idea.

but if we want to talk about card faming and got issues, I figure we need to know what we are talking about.

Answering 250 issues on 50 nations, manually, without checking for packs, took me 13 minutes and 7 seconds. 3,148 seconds per issues. globally
and I never check pack/cards on the first 20 issues I answer anyway.

however, when we use got issues, answering 484 issues on 121 nations (4 instead of 5) took me 1100 seconds, or around 18 minutes.
for a grant total of 2,27 seconds per issues answered, and THIS INCLUDE opening packs, selling cards that have acceptable bid and junking.
you can see just how faster Got issues is then manual farming.

Edits
With Dragonias it went even faster. took 23.42 minutes to answer 799 issues (1 was missed for I don't know what reason)
but globally, while opening pack, we have a whole 1,78 seconds per issues answered.


its nearly 1 seconds gained per issues answered
you could guess, that got issues without checking for packs would be even faster.
I hope that enlight us.

[Coffin-Breathe]

Well, at least this "enlightens" about the often cited "hard labour and countless hours spent" on farming big, by which most of the "big farmers" try to justify their advantage for abuseing the system...
I still say, the only way to get the game back on rails is reduction of the "card-receiving puppets" for every player, combined with closing the loophole of overstoring and getting rid of the "valuable arts badge" as well as the rankings. And since we all know, self-commitment and self-control doesn´t work (especially not for most "farmers"), this cuts have to be made by "the system" (admins), regardless of the whining of a few...

[Benevolent Earth]

Well, at least this "enlightens" about the often cited "hard labour and countless hours spent" on farming big, by which most of the "big farmers" try to justify their advantage for abuseing the system...
I still say, the only way to get the game back on rails is reduction of the "card-receiving puppets" for every player, combined with closing the loophole of overstoring and getting rid of the "valuable arts badge" as well as the rankings. And since we all know, self-commitment and self-control doesn´t work (especially not for most "farmers"), this cuts have to be made by "the system" (admins), regardless of the whining of a few...

Yep, they can't justify it anymore.

Here's my list in order of importance. A real fix may be born from the combo of the top five needs of the nine listed below plus a couple of the last four. The fix needs to be comprehensive.

✓ full commitment to clean up the game by Admins.
✓ Abolish current TALCS "card duplication" abuse.
✓ Greatly reduce number of "card receiving puppets" allowed each player by disincentivizing card farms.
✓ Stop auctioned cards from entering decks at or over capacity. Can easily be done with the exact same warning given when an over capacity gifting is attempted. It comes up whenever a buy is placed by an over capacity deck, and it's prevented.
✓ disconnect cards from issue answering with mini game.
✓ impose an appropriate auction fee system to prevent wild abusive inflation.
✓ abolish DV rankings. Leave those interested players do the tracking for themselves.
✓ Reduce gifting fee to 20%
✓ abolish cards badge

[Fauzjhia]

if this is done

✓ abolish DV rankings. Leave those interested players do the tracking for themselves
✓ abolish cards badge
Inflated card will be a thing of the past. reduced to bragging rights you are unable to push in everyone face.
I've been in favor of this solution since ever.

✓ Reduce gifting fee to 20%
this will help my farming so I approve. also improve my giveaway.

✓ impose an appropriate auction fee system to prevent wild abusive inflation.
I don't think you will need an auction, (a complicated system) to prevent inflation with card badge and ranking abolishing. this is WHAT I've been suggesting for some times. its simple.
the question is what effect will this have on global card trading.


✓ disconnect cards from issue answering with mini game.
Disagree

✓ Stop auctioned cards from entering decks at or over capacity. Can easily be done with the exact same warning given when an over capacity gifting is attempted. It comes up whenever a buy is placed by an over capacity deck, and it's prevented.
Fris already said that its not doing to be implement. give up.

✓ Greatly reduce number of "card receiving puppets" allowed each player.
no one like find puppets in their cards.
I believe outlawing got-issues is more important then just reducing puppets.
if a player is able to correctly handle 250 puppets. they should be allowed to. (meaning manual handling of issues)


✓ Abolish current TALCS "card duplication" abuse.
its not a black as you say, yes it allow people with puppets and got-issues to print copies of a card, but it used to make transfer between a main and puppets harder. (however the practice of farmers is not heist each other)

[Haganham]

Trouble is a bunch of players have abandoned making card draws within their main BECAUSE they won't pay the additional deck space price.

Thus they use these card farms for their draws, launder those cards through the auction, simultaneously inflating the value of these cards with card farm puppets, while avoiding the high cost of adding deck space or the 100% fee for gifting.

However, this chain can be broken by disabling the mechanism which allows cards won at auction to enter over capacity decks and installing a suitable fee at auction.

Say what? Cards get into decks witch are over the limit from auction? That's so wack.

The alternitive is people placing overpriced bids nd then get out of them by using gifts/opening packs to exceed the deck limit.

[All-Dirt Oil Company]

I quit because of the farmers, but also because I more or less managed to get every card I wanted. What you suggest will not only badly hurt small scale players, but also those that have moved on and completed their collections. Also, while abusive card farming was definitely occurring and there should've been sanctions or limits on the card farming, your solution is extreme and harmful to everyone.

[Frisbeeteria]

Here's my list in order of importance.

This isn't a list of improvements. It's a manifesto for change. Only a couple of them have any suggestions for actual change, like reducing the gifting fee. The third one is either WA only, unlimited puppets, or a complete game redesign, as we have never (and have no mechanism for) required players to 'register' their puppets.

✓ full commitment to clean up the game by Admins.

This one is just ludicrous. You don't get to decide how [violet] spends her time.

Come up with actual code-able alternatives and not just demands, and you'll get a lot more attention.

[Incredible Bums]

✓ Reduce gifting fee to 20%
this will help my farming so I approve. also improve my giveaway.

No ! As this would only improve some of the flaws in an already flawed system and mostly would benefit farmers, not single-nation or casual players.

✓ disconnect cards from issue answering with mini game.
Disagree

Why and how ? I can see absolutely neither reason for nor beneficial change in this. En contraire...

✓ Stop auctioned cards from entering decks at or over capacity. Can easily be done with the exact same warning given when an over capacity gifting is attempted. It comes up whenever a buy is placed by an over capacity deck, and it's prevented.
Fris already said that its not doing to be implement. give up

Since Frisbeeteria´s main deck consists of almost 24.000 cards without (so my guess) paid space, thus making him one of the players which profit most from not correcting this flaw, I have to announce some doubts about him/her being really impartial and unbiased on this issue as a game-mod.

✓ Greatly reduce number of "card receiving puppets" allowed each player.
no one like find puppets in their cards.
I believe outlawing got-issues is more important then just reducing puppets.
if a player is able to correctly handle 250 puppets. they should be allowed to. (meaning manual handling of issues)
✓ Abolish current TALCS "card duplication" abuse.
its not a black as you say, yes it allow people with puppets and got-issues to print copies of a card, but it used to make transfer between a main and puppets harder. (however the practice of farmers is not heist each other)

Redundant, because both cook down to outlawing of (all) scripts, something I would really appreciate

[Benevolent Earth]

Here's my list in order of importance.

This isn't a list of improvements. It's a manifesto for change. Only a couple of them have any suggestions for actual change, like reducing the gifting fee. The third one is either WA only, unlimited puppets, or a complete game redesign, as we have never (and have no mechanism for) required players to 'register' their puppets.

✓ full commitment to clean up the game by Admins.

This one is just ludicrous. You don't get to decide how [violet] spends her time.

Come up with actual code-able alternatives and not just demands, and you'll get a lot more attention.

A manifesto for change. That has a fine ring to it, true wordsmith quality. Fris, you have great skills in turning a phrase, far more than I can deliver.

✓ full commitment to clean up the game by Admins.

^This suggestion was paraphrasing another poster on the page (Coffin Breath) concerning the "Admins making the cuts regardless of the whining of the few". Thought it was a worthy point, still do. Though I'm truly sorry you've interpreted in a different way. Some of us out here have made numerous good faith attempts to help the developers fix various card game problems. I never mentioned [violet] specifically and neither did the other poster who i believe is also sincere in his comments. The aim here is to help and these comments were intended as respectful. In no way did i feel i inferred what [violet] should do with her time. My genuine apologies to [violet] if she read this and took it that way.

✓ Reduce gifting fee to 20%

Glad to hear that may be workable.

✓ Stop auctioned cards from entering decks at or over capacity. Can easily be done with the exact same warning given when an over capacity gifting is attempted. It comes up whenever a buy is placed by an over capacity deck, and it's prevented.

Intuition tells me ^this one is code-able, however i am not a techie but i can see a large portion of the game's problems lie in the balancing of the two main card redistribution systems (gifting and auction) and their inverse relationship as to card permeability into over-capacity decks.

[Drop Your Pants]

I have to announce some doubts about him/her being really impartial and unbiased on this issue as a game-mod.

Game Mods deal with GHR's and other offensive incidents. Nothing to do with cards. If they had an influence then every penny bidder would be banned

[Benevolent Earth]

I have to announce some doubts about him/her being really impartial and unbiased on this issue as a game-mod.

Game Mods deal with GHR's and other offensive incidents. Nothing to do with cards. If they had an influence then every penny bidder would be banned

Mechanistically, every TACLS abuser is necessarily a penny bidder.

[Fauzjhia]

Game Mods deal with GHR's and other offensive incidents. Nothing to do with cards. If they had an influence then every penny bidder would be banned

Mechanistically, every TACLS abuser is necessarily a penny bidder.

not. its not the same.
you have a very limited comprehension of Penny Bidding.

The TACLS is actually penny bidding himself only. they are not a major nuisance to anyone else.

[Benevolent Earth]

Mechanistically, every TACLS abuser is necessarily a penny bidder.

not. its not the same.
you have a very limited comprehension of Penny Bidding.

The TACLS is actually penny bidding himself only. they are not a major nuisance to anyone else.

There seems to be some disagreement...

I have to announce some doubts about him/her being really impartial and unbiased on this issue as a game-mod.

Game Mods deal with GHR's and other offensive incidents. Nothing to do with cards. If they had an influence then every penny bidder would be banned

Then tell it to this^ guy.

[Fauzjhia]

not. its not the same.
you have a very limited comprehension of Penny Bidding.

The TACLS is actually penny bidding himself only. they are not a major nuisance to anyone else.

There seems to be some disagreement...

your mistaking Tacls abuse for a auction, tacls abuse, also known as pull event are not a normal auction,
card farmers will rarely heist the pull eventer and the continuous bid is what allow tacls to print more then 1 copies of the card.
otherwise a legendary being bought a 500 might trigger it, but it will only happen ONCE.
the fact the player keep bidding and bidding is what make the card spawn multiple.

but very often, this happen between a player and himself or a puppet, so these are not normal auctions at all.

[Coffin-Breathe]

...and is a very good example, where good intentions gone wrong; initially invented to make trading of "high valued" cards a little bit more risky, when giving every player a slight chance of getting a new copy of said cards during their auction, it only led to further advantage of "big farmers" (the only ones which can afford and do such stage-managed auctions) and unbalance of the game.
First, because "farming big" multiplies the otherwise very slim chance of getting a copy from a "pull event", but second, and that´s much more important, by "mass-producing" high-priced and heaviy sought-after legendaries, which were intended to stay very rare, hard to get, and, following the principles of a free market, also become cards with a somehow stable and high "market value". The artificial generated "inflation of such cards" via "pull events" clearly leads to destabilisation of "the system (as intended)".
To at least stop this (which is much more easy to do as "punishing the abusement"), it`s absolutely necessary to abandon the "TCALS" completely, thus giving every card the same chance of showing up, based on rarity.
This would eventually also reduce those ridiculous bids on many other cards (0.01 or 0.02), mainly set not to "track" those cards (most "farmers" don´t even notice changings on bids/asks on their allegedly "tracked" cards, because they don´t care or simply "track" to many of them), but to increase the chances of getting an (extremely rare) card through farming, when a bid and an ask (even without the card being on auction) are set. Which, I might add, is so much more of a nuisance for me, when I see those ridiculous (penny) bids on "extremely hard to get" cards like "very low-owner-series-one" cards, especially, when they come from players with immense "bank" and/or hundreds/thousands of farms.