Proposal: NSCS/Abolish Card Auction System

[L Kuan Yew]

The Trading Card Mini-Game suffers from various issues that have made the game challenging to maintain as-is. This includes mass card farming, inflation, collection abuse, and a high barrier of entry for new players. Many of these issues are tied to the medium of the Card Auction System. Those who play the mini-game excessively can dominate the market, bidding up prices and monopolizing purchases. It is difficult for casual players to participate, as a relative few reap the benefits.

I propose to replace the Auction System with a NationStates Card Store (NSCS). The NSCS would act with sole monopoly power to distribute cards for sale at rarity tier Junk value. In addition, the NSCS could offer any card, from any season to any interested player, at a set reasonable price, at any time going forward. For example, suppose a brand new player (or a seasoned NS community member who rarely plays the card mini-game) develops an interest in the hobby and thinks it would be fun to buy a Season 1 Testlandia. In that case, the time they would have to invest to pull this offer under the current system is extraordinary. Under the proposed method, all these types of players would have to do, is invest the time to build up 1 Bank, go to the NSCS, and purchase the card. This example constitutes how the vast majority of NationStates players interact with the mini-game. It is a casual interest, which is precisely how Max Barry intended it to be.

Establishing the NSCS would make all cards (past, present, and future) radically more affordable and attainable for all members of the NS Community than they currently are. The NSCS would curtail large card puppet farming benefits, as players would lose the mechanism of transferring Bank through the auction system. I am reluctantly open to allowing for the gifting of cards for collection building purposes if it were coupled with a stringent but more reasonably affordable deck limit system. Adoption of the NSCS should be broadly deflationary for all aspects of the game.

As long as the Auction System remains in place, it will not be possible to address a minority of players building large sums of Bank that drive up card prices. Spoofing, wash trading, front running, layering, and other forms of market manipulation will remain endemic as the Auction System will continue to allow a minority to control access to select cards and limit the number of practical options the vast majority have within the marketplace. Proposals such as taxes and price controls will distort the market in ways that will not benefit the masses. Only the NSCS can solve this problem. Thank you for reading.

[Tinhampton]

How will players be able to acquire bank under the NSCS system, or do you envisage it being acquired only through the junking of cards?

[Haganham]

This would effectively make cards of any rarity interchangeable, defeating the point of collecting.

[Riemstagrad]

Your proposal would remove all fun out of the card game. Hunting for special, highly demanded and very pricy cards is a big part of the fun.
And now i wasted way too many words on this horrible idea.

[L Kuan Yew]

How will players be able to acquire bank under the NSCS system, or do you envisage it being acquired only through the junking of cards?

Bank would be raised solely on each individual account by junking undesired cards. This would end Card Farming as a means of direct money laundering. I am open to continuing to allowing Gifting if it were somehow possible to prevent those gifted cards from being liquidated for Bank.

[L Kuan Yew]

This would effectively make cards of any rarity interchangeable, defeating the point of collecting.

Cards would continue to have a subjective value and a junk value based on rarity. They would lose scarcity value (which comes through lack of quantity) and market value (which is a product of unaffordability). I consider this an adequate trade-off as it would benefit the majority of players to have all cards available from any season at a reasonable pricing.

[L Kuan Yew]

Your proposal would remove all fun out of the card game. Hunting for special, highly demanded and very pricy cards is a big part of the fun.
And now i wasted way too many words on this horrible idea.

Under the NSCS, there would be no such thing as hard-to-find cards that are collectible to a tiny portion of the NationStates Community. All cards from every season would be equally obtainable to all players at an affordable price. Players wouldn't have to game the Auction system with such nonsense as Pull Events, where Card Farmers tax the website to find scarce or inflated cards. Instead, casual players (the vast majority of the community) would be given a practical opportunity to engage in the hobby.

A glance of your profile reveals you have over 9,000 cards, with 393 Legendary cards, yet you have only paid for 1,000 deck capacity. The average NationStates player has no more than their initial 50 card deck capacity with not a single Legendary card. Preserving your system of fun is the least of my concerns.

[Fauzjhia]

Why do I feel you are Benevolent, trying to propose another idea that would just kill the entire card game.
Man if killing the card game is your, then just suggest it : I propose to abolish the card games, its a failing failure that really fail.

personnally, I would not cry not much. such a system, will make my life so much easier,
but it would kill all trades between players, at point, we don,t even have a card game anymore.

this is an extremely horrible idea.

[L Kuan Yew]

Why do I feel you are Benevolent, trying to propose another idea that would just kill the entire card game.
Man if killing the card game is your, then just suggest it : I propose to abolish the card games, its a failing failure that really fail.

personnally, I would not cry not much. such a system, will make my life so much easier,
but it would kill all trades between players, at point, we don,t even have a card game anymore.

this is an extremely horrible idea.

Putting an end to the techniques you have used to exploit the card game does not equate to ending the card game itself. Your profile shows you have amassed five figures from Bank. The average NationStates player barely surpasses even two figures. Your insanely large several hundred-strong puppet army and constant hacking of the TCALS system make you a community poster child for the dangers of gameplay addiction. Max Berry did not intend for this mini-game to be used to the extremes you employ with endless, mindless repetitive hours of answering the same issues repeatedly and then transferring Bank amongst scores of accounts. It was meant to be something fun for casual use and minimal time. Eliminating the Auction system, the prime source of feeding your addiction, will benefit everyone, perhaps most of all yourself.

[Doge Land]

I've seen many stupid proposals for the cards system lately but this one is the worst. It's one thing changing the way cards are obtained naturally, but if you straight up remove the auction house, it takes all the fun out of playing it. With the current system of auctions, you have inflators, deflators, transfer cards, and all of these cool functions that allow for more diversity in gameplay. I shouldn't be able to junk my deck and buy 25 legendaries.

[Fauzjhia]

Putting an end to the techniques you have used to exploit the card game does not equate to ending the card game itself. Your profile shows you have amassed five figures from Bank. The average NationStates player barely surpasses even two figures.

WOAH you look at the bank in my Main nation, but I,m sure you know that I need this bank to pay for deck expansion, I have little desire to bypass limits of the game, and I am have junking my own cards, because I do not to bypass deck capacity.
There is something called greed or in satisfaction in human nature that bring to collect always more. however exploiting the game is not something I enjoy.

Your insanely large several hundred-strong puppet army

I have 581 puppets. 25 in TRR, 50 in jeinnhezslhaunia, 38 in Lunaria, 35 in Green Hills, 101 in world of Beetles, 121 in worlds of Colors, 10 in socialist canada, 200 in the rejected pacific.

and constant hacking of the TCALS system make you a community poster child for the dangers of gameplay addiction.

Aint truth at all, I did not exploit TACLS system like you suggest, although I might happened to have triggered it. my bank transfer serve solely to be prepared to pay for deck capacity in s3. the RICH and those with most puppets always profit from pull events, and while we discuss, 239 of my puppets Can't trigger TACLS at all.

Max Berry did not intend for this mini-game to be used to the extremes you employ with endless, mindless repetitive hours of answering the same issues repeatedly and then transferring Bank amongst scores of accounts.

Among farmers I don't transfer as often as others, and I hate to transfer. make me vomits. but that is only truth for the 200 nations in the Rejected Pacific. all others nations do engage in any kind of transfer at all. Instead I am collecting bank in hope of being able to offer good price when s3 will begin. Even if this behavior might actually benefits other farmers the most.
you don't have any idea of the amount of bank I am keeping on Puppets for their own collections. but let me assure, its more then what I have on my main. And I think Max Berry does not have any problem with people who collect cards on many nations.

I only uses got-issues with 331 nations, all other nations have their issues answered manually, and they are not always the same, because i am trying to find the best issues that suit my nations. I have a script. remember issues, but that is not automatic.

It was meant to be something fun for casual use and minimal time. Eliminating the Auction system, the prime source of feeding your addiction, will benefit everyone, perhaps most of all yourself.

well, your going to kill the trades, now people will simply look for their cards, and buy it for junk value.

Bonus : you kill inflated cards (I strongly approve that), you kill pull events (well fine, their only profit to the ultra-rich),
But fact you kill rarities all together, and you destroy all kind of trades between players.
you only make my own job (of giving my puppets their collections. ) much simpler, and I think I would love that.
don't take me wrong, I have everything to gain from that proposal, although, what about everyone who tries to sell me my puppet's cards. Well I would not need to pay them any more bank to get those cards anymore, its a win for ME, and we'll pass on them.

This is a proposal that is good for a card collector like me. I could simply junk a few cards. collect my own and be done with it. simple and awesome. But, for the global game itself. for the trades between players, for cooperation etc. this is a disaster.<


Edit : you want to know what I will do if this is accepted.
I'll let all nations in worlds of colors, socialist canada and the rejected pacific CTE.
that's probably all. and I would not buy anymore cards from anyone else...

[Hulldom]

I think this idea actually has some potential, but it would need to be...a store, which means it would have to be demand and supply-sensitive, which also means limiting the amount of cards in circulation. Everyone knows, for instance, that Testlandias are very popular. If it were somehow coded, and Fris/[violet] might know just how hard this might be to do in practice, so that there was a limit on how many Testlandias were produced, you could have something approximating it, but instead of it being the current minimum bid auction where the owner of the card sets the minimum and we work our way up, the system could instead be modified to an ABSOLUTE auction system where the bid is simply for Player A to outbid Player B. (Edit: What I mean to say is, the junk price and the minimum bid is always junk price. However, Players A and B have to continually get their price above the other for some defined period for a time to get the last card. As mentioned, if you wanted to do this as you suggest, it has to function like a store and has to be demand-sensitive and in this case supply-sensitive as well.)

[As a side note, if this were ever seriously considered, my idea would be that this could functionally mean junk cards were spun back in to the system as cards for sale, thus limiting the supply artificially though what the potential issues of a circular system for cards versus a "regeneration" system could be, I can only guess.]

[Benevolent 1]

Why do I feel you are Benevolent, trying to propose another idea that would just kill the entire card game.
Man if killing the card game is your, then just suggest it : I propose to abolish the card games, its a failing failure that really fail.

personnally, I would not cry not much. such a system, will make my life so much easier,
but it would kill all trades between players, at point, we don,t even have a card game anymore.

this is an extremely horrible idea.

Paranoid much? Get bent. He's not me.

From your post, it seems there's a tangible possibility that i now own a serious amount of space inside your head. Which is deliciously hilarious.

Nevertheless, you are wrong per usual.

Why do I feel you are Benevolent, trying to propose another idea that would just kill the entire card game.
Man if killing the card game is your, then just suggest it : I propose to abolish the card games, its a failing failure that really fail.

personnally, I would not cry not much. such a system, will make my life so much easier,
but it would kill all trades between players, at point, we don,t even have a card game anymore.

this is an extremely horrible idea.

Putting an end to the techniques you have used to exploit the card game does not equate to ending the card game itself. Your profile shows you have amassed five figures from Bank. The average NationStates player barely surpasses even two figures. Your insanely large several hundred-strong puppet army and constant hacking of the TCALS system make you a community poster child for the dangers of gameplay addiction. Max Berry did not intend for this mini-game to be used to the extremes you employ with endless, mindless repetitive hours of answering the same issues repeatedly and then transferring Bank amongst scores of accounts. It was meant to be something fun for casual use and minimal time. Eliminating the Auction system, the prime source of feeding your addiction, will benefit everyone, perhaps most of all yourself.

You possess a different, stronger writing style than I. Observant players can see that. Fauz can't.

I think your idea has merit and should be considered seriously. Of course the Discord Hive will hate it since it completely disempowers them. These are good points concerning gaming addiction.

[Destructive Government Economic System]

"These are good points concerning gaming addiction."

Dude

You sound like China and its recent ban of gaming for people under 18 in the name of "cOUntERing aDDictIOn" (but instead of gaming, it's banning the current market and everything that has been achieved). I hate what the CCP did, and now I'm starting to hate this idea if that's what you were trying to go for

Never try to restrict fun. It's not going to achieve anything.

[L Kuan Yew]

"These are good points concerning gaming addiction."

Dude

You sound like China and its recent ban of gaming for people under 18 in the name of "cOUntERing aDDictIOn" (but instead of gaming, it's banning the current market and everything that has been achieved). I hate what the CCP did, and now I'm starting to hate this idea if that's what you were trying to go for

Never try to restrict fun. It's not going to achieve anything.

The primary goal of NSCS is to eliminate exploitation of the card mini-game by minimizing the time investment casual players (the mass of the NS community) would need to achieve positive outcomes. Understandably, players respond to incentives. Therefore, resetting those incentives can help break the hours of addictive habits fostered by the Auction system (i.e., Card farming, heisting, money laundering, price manipulation, etc.). Therefore, as a residual benefit, I would consider NSCS a net positive in terms of player mental health and well-being.

[Benevolent 1]

"These are good points concerning gaming addiction."

Dude

You sound like China and its recent ban of gaming for people under 18 in the name of "cOUntERing aDDictIOn" (but instead of gaming, it's banning the current market and everything that has been achieved). I hate what the CCP did, and now I'm starting to hate this idea if that's what you were trying to go for

Never try to restrict fun. It's not going to achieve anything.

My name isn't dude, but your name is Destructive something or other. Seems to fit you. Also, i don't speak Chinese so I really don't sound like China.
I hate murderers and pedophiles. Hate is a powerful word and you could do well to use it properly. There are lots of other words in between love and hate, same goes for fun and misery.

See if you can discern the difference between adulthood and childhood. Children (people under 18 years old) should most definitely be protected from excessive sorts of "fun" as they understand it. Such as eating too much candy, too much junk food, staying up past bedtime, skipping school, having too many temper tantrums and excessive acting out, too much wandering through the woods, smoking cigarettes, etc. etc. AND excessive addictive game playing per day. This is because kids aren't mentally or emotionally prepared to deal with the potential long term consequences of stuff like compulsion loops.

BTW, one might ask how many bOXeS of fROot LoOpS did YOU eat today while feeding your own compulsion loops?... but I'll leave that for your parents to ponder.

"These are good points concerning gaming addiction."

Dude

You sound like China and its recent ban of gaming for people under 18 in the name of "cOUntERing aDDictIOn" (but instead of gaming, it's banning the current market and everything that has been achieved). I hate what the CCP did, and now I'm starting to hate this idea if that's what you were trying to go for

Never try to restrict fun. It's not going to achieve anything.

The primary goal of NSCS is to eliminate exploitation of the card mini-game by minimizing the time investment casual players (the mass of the NS community) would need to achieve positive outcomes. Understandably, players respond to incentives. Therefore, resetting those incentives can help break the hours of addictive habits fostered by the Auction system (i.e., Card farming, heisting, money laundering, price manipulation, etc.). Therefore, as a residual benefit, I would consider NSCS a net positive in terms of player mental health and well-being.

Eloquently put. I agree with your statement in it's totality.

[Captain Woodhouse]

Your proposal would remove all fun out of the card game.

Sure, the proposal would ruin the fun, but fun was ruined long ago by the bugs and scripts clan. What's fun about a handful of players, each pulling several rare Legendaries in short order while exploiting an auction bug? Nothing—unless one has a penchant for unsportsmanlike play.

The primary goal of NSCS is to eliminate exploitation of the card mini-game by minimizing the time investment casual players (the mass of the NS community) would need to achieve positive outcomes. Understandably, players respond to incentives. Therefore, resetting those incentives can help break the hours of addictive habits fostered by the Auction system (i.e., Card farming, heisting, money laundering, price manipulation, etc.). Therefore, as a residual benefit, I would consider NSCS a net positive in terms of player mental health and well-being.

I'm with you on axing farms, auction, etc., but a proposal that eliminates all the fun and surprise that made Cards enjoyable in the beginning, is more punishment than solution. Fris's poker idea is a far better fix. I think we're better served by focusing on ideas along those lines than fun-sucking ones with zero entertainment value.

[Benevolent 1]

Your proposal would remove all fun out of the card game.

Sure, the proposal would ruin the fun, but fun was ruined long ago by the bugs and scripts clan. What's fun about a handful of players, each pulling several rare Legendaries in short order while exploiting an auction bug? Nothing—unless one has a penchant for unsportsmanlike play.

Basically, the Discord hive's prime directive is to constantly seek out and exploit self serving mechanisms of unsportsmanlike play and to violate opposing players attempting to block their unjust practices.

The primary goal of NSCS is to eliminate exploitation of the card mini-game by minimizing the time investment casual players (the mass of the NS community) would need to achieve positive outcomes. Understandably, players respond to incentives. Therefore, resetting those incentives can help break the hours of addictive habits fostered by the Auction system (i.e., Card farming, heisting, money laundering, price manipulation, etc.). Therefore, as a residual benefit, I would consider NSCS a net positive in terms of player mental health and well-being.

I'm with you on axing farms, auction, etc., but a proposal that eliminates all the fun and surprise that made Cards enjoyable in the beginning, is more punishment than solution. Fris's poker idea is a far better fix. I think we're better served by focusing on ideas along those lines than fun-sucking ones with zero entertainment value.

IMO, Fris's Yahtzee/poker idea is the best fit. Like to see it tested in a mock up at some point.

Part of the fun at the beginning of cards was the newness of it all, that combined with the higher probability of substantial reward. What was lacking was a mechanism which protected the concept of fair play over the life of the game.

The next version's success over time may depend on it's ability to be modified in real time by the developers as the various unscrupulous players develop their latest cheats, presenting a serious deterrent to their unsportsmanlike efforts.

[Ioavollr]

Why come up with this convoluted system; why not just give every player all the cards for free? It seems like the game you want is to create collections with little or no effort input. The game you are planning to abolish is a market simulator; which clearly and unequivocally shows the dangers of market dominance and monopolies.

[Benevolent 1]

Why come up with this convoluted system; why not just give every player all the cards for free?

Time to learn some new tricks. Allowing players to duplicate any card they want for free is what TCALS abuse represented.

It seems like the game you want is to create collections with little or no effort input.

I don't think that's the goal overall. But it would serve some players needs.

The game you are planning to abolish is a market simulator; which clearly and unequivocally shows the dangers of market dominance and monopolies.

True and it's accomplished that to an extremely boring result. So now it's time to move on to simulating corrective market instruments which have been put forth in this entire forum.
As for the OP's proposal, it is a radical idea. I see it as a transitory phase for resetting the current game's market value structure after which a reformed version of cards (with a sensible auction) is introduced as Season 3.

[Destructive Government Economic System]

[snip]

Really had to make it personal huh?

Fine then. Before I go ahead and pretend you don't exist for the rest of my life, you can set aside a portion of your time to read every. single. thing. that I am about to say:

---

"These are good points concerning gaming addiction."

Dude

You sound like China and its recent ban of gaming for people under 18 in the name of "cOUntERing aDDictIOn" (but instead of gaming, it's banning the current market and everything that has been achieved). I hate what the CCP did, and now I'm starting to hate this idea if that's what you were trying to go for

Never try to restrict fun. It's not going to achieve anything.

My name isn't dude

And the last time I checked, it's perfectly acceptable to call someone a dude, so stop crying that I didn't bother saying your name.

but your name is Destructive something or other.

Seems to fit you.

Wow, now you're just taking random potshots. If you want to promote your terrible ideas, then at least be civil like your username would imply.

Also, i don't speak Chinese so I really don't sound like China.
I hate murderers and pedophiles.

And that's literally not the point. I (among many other people) thought your ideas were dumb so I compared them to dumb ideas that have similarly been done in real life. I was not implying that you were a criminal. Maybe if you didn't get so randomly angry at my post then you might have grasped the true meaning of what I was trying to say (and if you still don't know, I was saying that your ideas are horrible).

Hate is a powerful word and you could do well to use it properly. There are lots of other words in between love and hate, same goes for fun and misery.

Are you my dad or something? Last time I checked, you're just a random user who's only managed to post in this forum for a grand total of 122 times (literal spambots could achieve this in the matter of minutes). Gonna need a lot more effort than that to convince me

And fun fact: I have had past family members starve to death thanks to the CCP (power-crazed, overregulating bastards who only know how to take away the fun from their people). I hate them for a good reason. Obviously you didn't know about this until now, but my point is that you better not be dictating how I should manage my emotions. You don't know what it's like.

See if you can discern the difference between adulthood and childhood. Children (people under 18 years old) should most definitely be protected from excessive sorts of "fun" as they understand it. Such as eating too much candy, too much junk food, staying up past bedtime, skipping school, having too many temper tantrums and excessive acting out, too much wandering through the woods, smoking cigarettes, etc. etc. AND excessive addictive game playing per day. This is because kids aren't mentally or emotionally prepared to deal with the potential long term consequences of stuff like compulsion loops.

BTW, one might ask how many bOXeS of fROot LoOpS did YOU eat today while feeding your own compulsion loops?... but I'll leave that for your parents to ponder.

Lol, did you even bother to counter anything I said?

Because all I see in that mess of a post is nothing but personal jabs (particularly the bit questioning my mental health) that have completely failed to gain any sort of rise out of me. Plus re-iterating what you practically just stated but in an annoying textwall that I had to struggle to read.

Also, if you actually understood what real addiction is like then you would at least be familiar with the crap that truly fits your attempted definition. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't. It's a topic that not everyone is familiar with (even to me), but it certainly is more severe than whatever you just listed.

Extreme addiction is a negligible problem in cards, because it largely doesn't even exist.

Absolutely none of that annoyingly large blanket list truly comprises gaming addiction (and lmao, smoking cigars? that's not even relevant to this thread!) - certainly not sparing a few hours per day in devoting yourself to an online card game. Spending at least half a day (to the point of withdrawing from normal society) is what you're thinking of. The vast majority of players have attained what they have not by enslaving their minds to the game, BUT through a certain degree of effort (just like any other aspect of life; if you want to achieve something, you have to EARN it. And if you need examples, then please see the following link of beautiful collections, made both by regular and "big farmer" traders: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=484200; definitely not achievable by just spending a few minutes playing cards, but through actually desiring that outcome).

Oh and you shouldn’t just make note of the above. Why? Because even our top traders actually have lives! They enjoy this game so they chose to put in some effort each day, but you have been continuously insinuating that they’ve been doing nothing but suffer from some make believe obsessive-compulsive disorder. That’s fucking hilarious and couldn’t be farther from the truth. Because as a matter of fact, our top 2 traders possess adequate living schedules (with Mikeswill literally having a family and enjoying what life has to offer, and Giovanniland finding time to regularly sleep each day like any regular human being, rather than “cOntINuINg hIS aDDicTIon” to cards:

[I am NOT posting screenshots relating to Mike's family here. It's personal info. All you need to know is that he has one.]

The ONE player who you might’ve been able to target as “suffering from some card-obsessed disorder” would be Koem Kab themselves. Nobody’s going to deny that they went above and beyond in reaching the top in cards. But that’s the thing. Their efforts actually got them the top spot (and they remained in that spot for at least 1 year), so no one (other than you) has been surprised that huge effort leads to huge rewards. And even disregarding that, you can’t even argue that Koem Kab is “obsessed” anymore, because they don’t even play cards these days!

...

So in other words, your attempts at "supporting" efforts to “imPRoVe” the card game have been nothing but harmful. And yes, a large portion of the community would agree with me

And by “large portion of the community” I mean your so-called "Discord Hive." But it's not like it's a bad thing! Did you know that Discord comprises practically 50+% of the active playerbase that you're trashing right now? If you need a little bit of proof, then I'm here to help. You certainly need it more than anyone at this point:

Maybe if you had decided to not mimic the actions of an ostrich and chose to take your head out of the dirt would you have realized that the cards community wouldn't nearly have been as successful if Discord wasn’t a thing.

And even if not everyone hates your ideas, you're still flinging shit at everyone to the point where even those who don't automatically dislike you are still wary of your presence. Why? Because of your constant, overwhelmingly obvious paranoia that Discord is some huge evil that is out to crush the cards community. It's not (quite the contrary), and you'll find it absolutely no surprise that a practical majority of everyone dislikes you for what you've been trying to achieve (ALONG with the methods done to achieve it). And I'm not even talking about Fauzjhia (although he’s probably the most vocal about disliking you), because it runs MUCH further than that.

Sure, the proposal would ruin the fun, but fun was ruined long ago by the bugs and scripts clan. What's fun about a handful of players, each pulling several rare Legendaries in short order while exploiting an auction bug? Nothing—unless one has a penchant for unsportsmanlike play.

Basically, the Discord hive's prime directive is to constantly seek out and exploit self serving mechanisms of unsportsmanlike play and to violate opposing players attempting to block their unjust practices.

Oh yes! We are so evil! Those who choose to use Discord to aid their card progress are the definition of evil! Punish us hard, Max Barry!

Certainly this must mean those you (supposedly) respect dearly as well, right? Because (surprise surprise), those people use Discord too!

Congratulations my dude. You have successfully insulted potentially a tenth of our hardworking site staff, the same site staff that tirelessly worked their asses off in the name of providing us the cards minigame, just because they use Discord (and not just any Discord, but the cards-based Discord)!!!

Also, if you think that any of us top-ranking players have an addiction, then take a look at yourself. You have an extremely respectable card deck with a value nearly 3 times as much as mine. I don't even play cards anymore, yet people like me seem to be the ones that you hate the most. I tried to get to what I was at and now I should be punished for it? If that's the case, then you're just as guilty! Start hating your collection! Take a look at the sheer amount of addiction that you too seem to be suffering from!

Oh, and this? Has your tendency to create so many puppets gotten to the point where you even like making Nazi-themed nations?

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=fuhrer_king





Don’t even deny it. That’s your puppet and even a non-cards player would be able to deduce this.

---

^ Shoving your near-infinite and hilariously glaring cynicality AND hypocrisy aside, I’m going to go back to what I was originally out to despise: your terrible ideas, and your blatant support for equally-as-terrible ideas.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=38935853#p38935853

Automated deduction of deck capacity costs? Seriously?

I don’t care how much you cry over the fact that people are going over their deck capacity. There’s a good reason for that. And that’s because they have a goal. They know the risks of buying over capacity (most importantly, their complete inability to even open packs or be gifted cards), yet they choose to push on in the name of what their dream in cards was to be. Plenty of examples can be found here, and such amazingly grand collections (PARTICULARLY the rarity-based and regional based collections, which, for the record, took entire MONTHS and sometimes YEARS to complete) will simply be impossible to continue if you had your way (fortunately, that’s not going to happen).

[Also, I don’t see your name - unless one of the collections in the thread belongs to one of your amazingly numerous puppets - cited in ANY of these collections, so F for creativity to you. You want to take away the fun from everyone else when YOU haven’t seem to have grasped what that meaning is?? Lol, that’s pathetic.]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=38939987#p38939987

Not a completely terrible idea, but seeing you disregard the existence of pull events in the process is absolutely mind-boggling.

I don’t card farm anymore. It’s a boring practice. But I will never deny the amount of good it has personally done for me (and no, it was NOT because I was using the system for my own benefit). There was this one card called NASTIC 2 that had literally 1-2 owners remaining. I was one of those owners, and I wanted to share this card with as much people as possible (due to the fact that the user behind this card was a former UN delegate of The North Pacific. This effectively meant that a CRAPTON of players (whether it be card players or non-card players) also wanted the card due to its history behind it, and do you want to know as to how its owner count skyrocketed from 1-2 owners to the 31 known today?

Easy. A goddamn pull event!

I had absolutely no way of sharing the card’s ownership to the amount of people who own it today unless I had the community (particularly The Northern Light, who, by the way, farmed exclusively in order to start a program that would continuously gift legendary cards to newer players; not all card farmers are bad, buddy!) backing me up. I coordinated with well-experienced card traders in order to start a pull event that would lead to several new copies of NASTIC 2 to be generated. Only a few copies were farmed at the time, but those lucky owners eventually generated their own copies later - leading to what you see today.

Are pull events bad? Hell no. If we as a community can achieve what you just saw above (if you even bothered to read, which itself is its own question), then surely they’re not something to just cast aside as a feature.

Also, take a look here. I’m going to quote another reason why you can’t just disregard the amount of good pull events have done for the cards community - the same community you’re actively trying to butcher:

And not only that, but making it WA-only will effectively destroy pull events. Yes, it's a flaw (like Fris mentioned), but they're now a regular part of the game for many cards players and even regions

Yes, entire regions hold pull events! They’ve (for a long, long while) served as a point of interest all throughout the NationStates community, so trying to get rid of them (by ANY means necessary) isn’t going to be received so well. A crapton of players (and not just the “sUpEr obSeSSed” users you seem to be judging as a standard for everything) have participated in them, and many have even benefitted from those events as a result.

Wanna nerf pull events (even though they’ve already been nerfed to the ground a long time ago)? Then good luck! The mere thought of it is just going to suck - and I mean suck extremely badly.

...

And finally, there’s this thread right here. The OP has been much more civil than the crap they were pulling months ago (and for that I’m grateful; L Kuan Yew, even if I don’t trust you, you’ve become a much more tolerable user than a certain, highly unpopular person has now become), but their idea is still bad. Which means that it’s not much of a surprise that you’re supporting it, Benevolent, as supporting bad ideas is what your goal in NationStates Cards seems to be!

Unlike ideas such as Fris’s trading card Yahtzee, this provides absolutely no challenge whatsoever in order to gain cards. The concept of anything even “valuable” will plummet to the ground. This isn’t because of inflation or anything, but because it claims to offer any and every single card known to the site:

I propose to replace the Auction System with a NationStates Card Store (NSCS). The NSCS would act with sole monopoly power to distribute cards for sale at rarity tier Junk value. In addition, the NSCS could offer any card, from any season to any interested player, at a set reasonable price, at any time going forward. For example, suppose a brand new player (or a seasoned NS community member who rarely plays the card mini-game) develops an interest in the hobby and thinks it would be fun to buy a Season 1 Testlandia. In that case, the time they would have to invest to pull this offer under the current system is extraordinary. Under the proposed method, all these types of players would have to do, is invest the time to build up 1 Bank, go to the NSCS, and purchase the card. This example constitutes how the vast majority of NationStates players interact with the mini-game. It is a casual interest, which is precisely how Max Barry intended it to be.

Establishing the NSCS would make all cards (past, present, and future) radically more affordable and attainable for all members of the NS Community than they currently are.

Where’s the fun in that? Where’s the feeling of accomplishment in actually getting that card you were inching to obtain? Absolutely nowhere!

Obviously one could argue that inflation has played a factor into the unnecessarily ambiguous status to buy certain cards, but abolishing the system that allows for this to happen? Really? Why in the world would that be a good idea? You’re going to effectively force the entire playerbase to get used to an entirely different style of gameplay without at least considering easier changes that would have addressed this issue? Nothing like a capped market value raise per auction? Nothing like introducing a fair deduction of bank for excessively large transfers? Why in the world do you think that flat-out NUKING the current system should be considered above everything else?

But I digress. The point (which you surely have no idea even existed) is that this is just horrifyingly excessive. It makes things way too easy to beat the card game and completely reduces competition to the point where this badge becomes pointless to keep. If you really want to see the cards community toppled (due to the need for actual collaboration no longer being a thing) then have fun. Cards will no longer have the same liveliness as that of Gameplay (which, for the record, has even more addicted players than Cards does!) - and it will all be thanks to people like you.

True and it's accomplished that to an extremely boring result. So now it's time to move on to simulating corrective market instruments which have been put forth in this entire forum.
As for the OP's proposal, it is a radical idea. I see it as a transitory phase for resetting the current game's market value structure after which a reformed version of cards (with a sensible auction) is introduced as Season 3.

Oh, so even you admit that it’s a crazy idea yet you want it implemented anyway? This right here is exactly why a negligible amount of players choose to take you seriously. You don’t even TRY to hide the fact that you want to see cards burn to the ground. At least with other players they actually believe that what they’re doing is right (including the OP themselves), but you, on the other hand, are just trying to spit in everyone’s faces under the guise of “making cards better”. I know that you’ll be shouting with glee, wearing a painfully smug look on your face if you see ideas like the OP’s get through - and NOT because you think cards will be improved, but because you’ll have finally achieved your make-believe crusade against those who have been harshly disagreeing with your viewpoints ever since you decided to make your presence here.

Once again, pathetic. Maybe in some random universe I’d be willing to believe that you actually want to see cards improve for the better, but due to exactly crap like this that you’ve been pulling off since day one - chances of that universe appearing are even lower than the odds of a timeline where the Avengers win against Thanos for a second time. Pretty hilariously low, to say the least.

---

That’s not to say that ALL your ideas are bad. This one is rather harmless, but that’s specifically because nobody gets harmed in the process. Almost everything else that you’ve been trying to propose, however, has been nothing but a hilarious attempt to reduce almost the ENTIRE card playerbase to dust in the name of “improvement”. You think you’re all hot stuff, but everyone who actually CARES about the current community just sees you as an anonymous user who has this funny habit of constantly screaming into an endless void in an attempt to be heard. It’s not really working, and practically only a handful of players (some of which haven’t even been active on this site long enough to be considered credible users) are currently listening to you.

And Fris doesn’t count. He’s the Card Development Manager, so he HAS to acknowledge even the shitty ideas.

---

All in all, I’m just going to conclude everything with this one statement: Your ideas suck. You constantly succeed in pissing everyone off due to you voicing those (largely hypocritical and unrealistically bad) ideas, and you like to be toxic about it when someone chooses to voice their deep displeasure for those bad ideas. There is absolutely nothing worth acknowledging you for - OTHER than the fact that you possess this perverted and spiteful jihad against Discord users (which currently number in the thousands, surprise surprise!). Stop annoying everyone and get some fucking perspective. Otherwise, you’re just going to be forever screaming in that endless void like a Barbie doll that’s constantly on rewind.

Oh and remember: if YOU hate massive puppet farmers, then perhaps you should start hating yourself. After all, you’re part of the problem, too!

Get bent, and have a good day.

- DGES, the person who you apparently believe “consumes bOXeS of fROot LoOpS in order to feed my so-called “compulsion loops”

[Benevolent 1]

<snip>

Are you my dad or something?

I'm not your Dad

I think this^ covers most of this. Yes, I am not your Dad.

As for the rest of this screed... when some on Discord get into an uproar and continually make personal attacks upon a person, over and over, for months, running into years, it makes you look far worse than he. Other players have seen this swarming. They also see these bad actors fair far better than the good players in this flawed game. In response, they've abandoned the game.

The game, as it was has lost it's civility, it's decency, it's worthiness. And you and those among the Discord hive are responsible. You hang by your medieval styled Reynard the Fox personas, acting out, lashing out, twisted in knots. In abject fear of proposed changes in the game.

Please do continue to obsess with my posts.

[L Kuan Yew]

And finally, there’s this thread right here. The OP has been much more civil than the crap they were pulling months ago (and for that I’m grateful; L Kuan Yew, even if I don’t trust you, you’ve become a much more tolerable user than a certain, highly unpopular person has now become), but their idea is still bad. Which means that it’s not much of a surprise that you’re supporting it, Benevolent, as supporting bad ideas is what your goal in NationStates Cards seems to be!

Unlike ideas such as Fris’s trading card Yahtzee, this provides absolutely no challenge whatsoever in order to gain cards. The concept of anything even “valuable” will plummet to the ground. This isn’t because of inflation or anything, but because it claims to offer any and every single card known to the site:

I propose to replace the Auction System with a NationStates Card Store (NSCS). The NSCS would act with sole monopoly power to distribute cards for sale at rarity tier Junk value. In addition, the NSCS could offer any card, from any season to any interested player, at a set reasonable price, at any time going forward. For example, suppose a brand new player (or a seasoned NS community member who rarely plays the card mini-game) develops an interest in the hobby and thinks it would be fun to buy a Season 1 Testlandia. In that case, the time they would have to invest to pull this offer under the current system is extraordinary. Under the proposed method, all these types of players would have to do, is invest the time to build up 1 Bank, go to the NSCS, and purchase the card. This example constitutes how the vast majority of NationStates players interact with the mini-game. It is a casual interest, which is precisely how Max Barry intended it to be.

Establishing the NSCS would make all cards (past, present, and future) radically more affordable and attainable for all members of the NS Community than they currently are.

Where’s the fun in that? Where’s the feeling of accomplishment in actually getting that card you were inching to obtain? Absolutely nowhere!

Obviously one could argue that inflation has played a factor into the unnecessarily ambiguous status to buy certain cards, but abolishing the system that allows for this to happen? Really? Why in the world would that be a good idea? You’re going to effectively force the entire playerbase to get used to an entirely different style of gameplay without at least considering easier changes that would have addressed this issue? Nothing like a capped market value raise per auction? Nothing like introducing a fair deduction of bank for excessively large transfers? Why in the world do you think that flat-out NUKING the current system should be considered above everything else?

But I digress. The point (which you surely have no idea even existed) is that this is just horrifyingly excessive. It makes things way too easy to beat the card game and completely reduces competition to the point where this badge becomes pointless to keep. If you really want to see the cards community toppled (due to the need for actual collaboration no longer being a thing) then have fun. Cards will no longer have the same liveliness as that of Gameplay (which, for the record, has even more addicted players than Cards does!) - and it will all be thanks to people like you.

First, to put things in perspective, you can't speak to what is in the best interests of the average NationStates player who interacts with the card mini-game because your interaction with it is radically different from the average player. For example, you have amassed a collection of over 22,546 cards and over 30,000 in Deck Value. Yet, the 100th ranked account has 141 cards and 266.68 of Deck Value. In other words, your Deck Value is 11,152% higher, and you have literally over 22,000 more cards. A system that allows this type of disparity, using a comparison ranking a player who would themselves be among the top 1 percent within the overall ranking system, is wholly indefensible. If we move further out, the resulting outcomes only grow more obscene. I don't blame you for reacting to incentives that align with your interests, but it is a clear indictment of the system fostering such outcomes.

Max Berry had benign intentions for the trading card mini-game, announcing it as a potentially fun add-on for the community. Yet as far back as April 2018, he voiced concerns over Card Farming and Auction abuse. He thought the tradeoff something like NSCC would foster protecting the community at large would come at the expense of positive elements that could come through trading, underestimating the extreme impact of market manipulation to come.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=news/ ... index.html

"For mini-games like this, it's often suggested that we limit it to World Assembly nations, where a one-nation-each rule is enforced. But many people have good reasons for not wanting to join the WA, which shouldn't exclude them from other parts of NationStates.

The real challenge is to discourage puppet farming without unduly interfering with real communities exchanging cards amongst themselves. Because an important part of the fun of deck building, I think, is that you can offer special deals or gifts to people you know. We could eliminate puppet farming by forcing all trades to be conducted at current market prices, but this would also eliminate elements of trust, friendship, and co-operation, leaving us with a more economically fair but less interesting game. Essentially: You should be able to offer a good card for cheap or even free to someone you know, because that's how communities work. But puppet farms should not easily stream their cards to a single owner.

To deliver this, we're doing two things. Firstly, direct trading will allow you to nominate a particular nation to exchange with (or gift to), with a bank fee involved. This makes it accessible for most nations, but less viable for puppets, who don't normally accumulate much bank, and will be disproportionately affected since they want to gift every good card they find. Secondly, to create a window of time that allows sniping of open market-based transactions, to reduce the ability to "sell" a valuable card for nothing to yourself."

Both of Max's mitigation ideas failed. First, through excessive gameplay, wealthy nations successfully used puppets to dominate the auction system, contradicting his theory that players would not be able to monopolize good cards by gifting and purchasing them. Secondly, the timed auction system that he believed would reduce the ability of players to sell cards to themselves has been thoroughly defeated by players using last-minute timed inflation methods, and manipulation of the TCALS mechanic to print cards into existence for the benefit of a few. Only the abolition of the auction system, and the establishment of the NSCS, can thoroughly solve these issues for good.

I would also like to take a moment to speak out on the need for NationStates to address game-play addiction. As there are special Class Accounts for students, we must be proactive and err on the side of caution with the incentives to continuously play the trading card game. More conservative pacing offered by NSCS would further encourage mental health and well-being, especially for the young, who tend to be the most vulnerable among us.

[One Small Island]

Can we please stop coming up with "solutions" which aim to punish players for playing the game? Because literally at this point that's all you're trying to do, is punish people who play the game more than you. It's sad, it's time to stop targeting the players.

Also

First, to put things in perspective, you can't speak to what is in the best interests of the average NationStates player who interacts with the card mini-game because your interaction with it is radically different from the average player. For example, you have amassed a collection of over 22,546 cards and over 30,000 in Deck Value. Yet, the 100th ranked account has 141 cards and 266.68 of Deck Value.

This is wrong.

Meet Stench the 100th ranked player. Stench has 115 cards, and a deck value of 15,272.41. The nation you're talking about; which I'm willing to guess is Nation of urie is 100th place in The Rejected Realms, the region that you're in, but they're 3,650th in the world.

A little bit different than where you're placing them.

[LucaBrasi]

Can we please stop coming up with "solutions" which aim to punish players for playing the game? Because literally at this point that's all you're trying to do, is punish people who play the game more than you. It's sad, it's time to stop targeting the players.

Also

First, to put things in perspective, you can't speak to what is in the best interests of the average NationStates player who interacts with the card mini-game because your interaction with it is radically different from the average player. For example, you have amassed a collection of over 22,546 cards and over 30,000 in Deck Value. Yet, the 100th ranked account has 141 cards and 266.68 of Deck Value.

This is wrong.

Meet Stench the 100th ranked player. Stench has 115 cards, and a deck value of 15,272.41. The nation you're talking about; which I'm willing to guess is Nation of urie is 100th place in The Rejected Realms, the region that you're in, but they're 3,650th in the world.

A little bit different than where you're placing them.

Not to bust your balls bro, but replacing the new paesano with the original, strengthens the OPs case further. The replacement moke has fewer cards and benefited more from auction gizmo inflation value than the prior guy. The whole system is a rigged pile of gabagool.

These cards are like NFTs. Instead of pretending we buy these electronic thingamajigs, how's about realizing we only lease them from the big boss of NationStates, the real true owner, Mr. Max Barry. We work off our debt to Mr. Barry by paying for Post Master General, laboring for Bank by clicking on ad links on the website, and earn commission by promoting his books on social media. No more card farming or auction blocks. Put in real work and pay the big boss directly by earning actual revenue in exchange for the cards. Remember, only the big man ever truly owns them. If you underperform, get fired, or get whacked by a player from another crew, the cards expire and go back into the community pot. You move up the ranks by paying your dues, building a book, and maybe one day you can even make Capo that's if you don't get clipped. Pawns get taken out early, and the King always stays the King.