Dealing with Frisbeeteria

[Recuecn]

I am all for a case study on big players in fact I thought it was a very in depth analysis of a player making a large amount of money in a unique way. You did a good job explaining how if someone didn't want to fuel the capitalistic endever how they can not. However as of late it's become more and more of an attack on fris even if you say you don't mean it to be. That intent is most likely why fris the player is being petty towards you by squeezing you for .01 bank.

This will end if he increases all of his standing Epic BIDS to .51.

I don't get why that bothers you though. You or anybody else can bid .51 at any time and *easily* outbid Fris for a cent more than JV. If someone else wants to click a few extra times to sell a card rather than junk it, that doesn't affect you either. Like 9003 said, this started as an interesting analysis but now it seems very personal. "This will end?" Is that some kind of ultimatum?

[Barometria]

The utopistic idea of making the world a better place for everyone is just never works (never worked in history).
It always ended up in bloodshed. When the oppressed gets power they become the oppressors.
The human race can't get over its animalistic emotions of revenge, hatred, and anger.

You've got the wrong guy. There is nothing for me to get revenge for because I have not been wronged. There is no person that I hate, I don't even mildly dislike the Frisbee. Don't know him, never met him, never spoke to him for any reason unrelated to the card game. Probably a cool guy. Definitely super smart! I'd almost certainly be willing to have a beer with him, except I don't drink. I'll buy him a beer and buy myself an RC Cola, though.

As far as anger, unfortunately, I am more capable of anger (less than zero) than I would like to be...but I promise I'm not angry about this. I'm just countering tactics with tactics.

Why do you not accuse the Frisbee of hatred for using shrewd tactics? I'll tell you why. One has nothing to do with another and how he plays the game has nothing to do with who he is as a person. He could be the chillest most laid-back mothafoo on the planet for all I know. He's just playing the game the way he likes, so I am playing it to try to get him to change in a way that levels the playing field just a little bit.

If he increases all bids in the future (I don't expect him to go through thousands of bids) to .51, then I will never buy an EPIC Card again unless it is one I actually intend to keep or sell to a friend. I will also never sell one again unless I happen to pull one. Might even just stop playing the game entirely. I have almost zero interest in the cards themselves.

[Refuge Isle]

I am all for a case study on big players in fact I thought it was a very in depth analysis of a player making a large amount of money in a unique way. You did a good job explaining how if someone didn't want to fuel the capitalistic endever how they can not. However as of late it's become more and more of an attack on fris even if you say you don't mean it to be. That intent is most likely why fris the player is being petty towards you by squeezing you for .01 bank.

This will end if he increases all of his standing Epic BIDS to .51.

Blackmail over one cent seems healthy.

[Barometria]

I don't get why that bothers you though. You or anybody else can bid .51 at any time and *easily* outbid Fris for a cent more than JV. If someone else wants to click a few extra times to sell a card rather than junk it, that doesn't affect you either. Like 9003 said, this started as an interesting analysis but now it seems very personal. "This will end?" Is that some kind of ultimatum?

I have made my terms very clear. There is only one term.

It bothers me because he gets to amass more cards based off of snatching them up at junk value. He can also swoop down on the ASK side for an easy profit anytime he wants without changing the number of a particular card he has. He could literally do this and make a free penny every time, if he really wanted to.

I've decided his ASK side work is acceptable as long as he promises to have standing bids of .51 in the future. Very few others do standing bids on EPIC.

[Barometria]

Blackmail over one cent seems healthy.

I can only suggest consulting Merriam-Webster who will tell you what blackmail means.

[Alexander Dragos]

You've got the wrong guy. There is nothing for me to get revenge for because I have not been wrong.

I don't mean you, I mean the people who you want to help with making the market a better place.
They'd most likely do the same if they'd be that much interested in making virtual profits in a game.

There is just no point making the life of others better, since we have only one life and our years are just flying away too fast.
Everyone should be able to make his/her own fortune, i believe in this. And if they can't that is not your problem.
Wow, it sounded heartless.

Why do you not accuse the Frisbee of hatred for using shrewd tactics?

Reading his old post in that old thread makes me think about that saying of:
"When you're young you're socialist, when you grow older you're liberal, and when you find out how things work you become conservative."

[Mikeswill]

For a moment I wasted time trying to figure out the motive or the purpose of the author.

For example: my motive is to collect every Legendary I can.
Fris like Epics. Luna likes Ultra Rares. 9003 likes Commons.
Northern Lights collects for The North Pacific.
Another Nation collects gems and Nations with a j
Sakana collected every S2 Legendary
Koem just dominates

Apparently the author writes on the Forum.

The point being that the game is large enough to suit anyone's pursuit...

So while the author continues their volume of words on the forum,
I'll continue to groom my 1600+ Legendary collection and #3 Deck Value status
Because Market Value does have meaning according to today's Ranking

Toodles

[Barometria]

There is just no point making the life of others better, since we have only one life and our years are just flying away too fast.
Everyone should be able to make his/her own fortune, i believe in this. And if they can't that is not your problem.
Wow, it sounded heartless.

My life becomes better when I try to make the lives of those around me better in those cases where I have the ability to do so.

If I do not attempt to improve situations that I think can be improved upon, my life becomes bromidic.

Reading his old post in that old thread makes me think about that saying of:
"When you're young you're socialist, when you grow older you're liberal, and when you find out how things work you become conservative."

I'm a Libertarian and, judging from your picture, we are within ten years one way or another. Not sure which way. Tough to put an exact age on you.

[Barometria]

For a moment I wasted time trying to figure out the motive or the purpose of the author.

For example: my motive is to collect every Legendary I can.
Fris like Epics. Luna likes Ultra Rares. 9003 likes Commons.
Northern Lights collects for The North Pacific.
Another Nation collects gems and Nations with a j
Sakana collected every S2 Legendary
Koem just dominates

Apparently the author writes on the Forum.

The point being that the game is large enough to suit anyone's pursuit...

So while the author continues their volume of words on the forum,
I'll continue to groom my 1700+ Legendary collection and #3 Deck Value status
Because Market Value does have meaning according to today's Ranking

Toodles

I have collected nearly thirty single-owner cards that folks can borrow off of me for nearly risk-free bank transfers.

Toodles.

[Mikeswill]

You sure know a lot for not having any cards or any bank ...

I own like 7,000 CTE S1 Commons with copies so when your the "single" owner card gets pulled during auction I have insurance against a heist.
(I also own 3,500 copies of my pups when and if that becomes the mode for safe transfers)


And Yes, My Deck is Bigger Than Yours

[Barometria]

You sure know a lot for not having any cards or any bank ...

I own like 7,000 CTE S1 Commons with copies so when your the "single" owner card gets pulled during auction I have insurance against a heist.
(I also own 3,500 copies of my pups when and if that becomes the mode for safe transfers)

How would I have bank? I've been playing this for only five days or so. I've got about 200.00-ish in bank between myself and puppet nations. I did have 200 EPIC cards, but I dumped them all. I wanted to look like a legit collector so I could try to get Frisbee for information and learn his tactics, but that's like squeezing water from a rock, so I just had to try some things to figure it out.

That's all in the first post and posts after that.

I also have him dead to rights on seven known puppets, and there are certainly more, but it would be rude to say. Puppets are part of the game. You can't even really hope to collect anything without them, unless you get stupid good Legendary draw luck. I will say that he DOES NOT use his own puppets to create bidding wars. It seems that even he thinks that is not fair play in the sense of this game. If he does do that, I haven't seen it happen.

I know a lot about the game because it is not very complicated. My background is math and economics and my employment deals largely in math, statistics and probability. I have also studied game theory.

Of course, what Frisbee is doing is fairly straightforward. Game theory type stuff only really applies to Legendary market. CRAZY amount of bluffing there. I've watched a few transactions. It's entertaining.

In any case, you do not need to borrow my cards. Players just starting out and who would like to accumulate wealth to one nation might need to borrow some of my cards, and quite a few have. I do not charge anything and I refuse anything except return of the card itself if only still one owner.

[Barometria]

Naughty little puppets flooding the market with EPICS to get me to bite. The Frisbee can have those ones at .50.

[Refuge Isle]

Luna likes Ultra Rares.

Mostly Luna collects deck space

[Mikeswill]

Luna likes Ultra Rares.

Mostly Luna collects deck space

My Deck would get Bigger if you got me a S2 Testlandia ....

And I so much want a Bigger Deck

[Barometria]

Because Market Value does have meaning according to today's Ranking

Toodles

Cool. Go into the real world grocery store and let them know how much market value you have on this game and see what they'll sell you in exchange.

Market value has no meaning for that reason and also because it is nothing more than an algorithm. The value of something is ALWAYS whatever someone is willing to pay to acquire that thing at the time. The algorithm of market value is just, "Best guess," type stuff. Because it is a statistics-based algorithm, it can also be falsely manipulated to go high or to go low by way of trading in a fashion designed to manipulate it.

ADDED: More than that, your post makes the mistake of assuming that I care in any way whatsoever about your collection.

[Mikeswill]

ADDED: More than that, your post makes the mistake of assuming that I care in any way whatsoever about your collection.

*sniff*

you hurt my feelings

you don't care about my Big Deck

[Barometria]

They need a thank you button, that was really funny!

I really do hope they change this game so that one cannot BID and ASK simultaneously. That would make the game more fair for many players, or if not, the strong sellers would at least have to waste their time using puppets to execute both sides of the transaction.

If you amass enough bank and understand how the game works, it's just too easy to dominate the market now with the way it is. Here are the changes that should be made:

1.) BIDS must be above junk value by at least 0.01. It should be impossible to bid at or below.

2.) The same nation cannot both Bid and Ask at the same time. If a transaction goes to market and they have something standing, then while they can REMOVE or CHANGE, they cannot go play the opposite side.

Anyway, those would make the game more fair.

If I had the time, I could very well compete with the Frisbee in EPIC, though it would admittedly take awhile. That's why accusations of jealousy are laughable. I would simply list all cards I acquire at .03 more than I pad for them and beat Frisbee on the BID side by bidding .51. With enough bankroll, it wouldn't be hard. I'd need about 10,000 bank and could probably pull that together playing eight hours a day for two months. I'm obviously not going to do that.

[Aenglaland]

As far as I know, Fris isn't doing anything wrong. Not really trying to sound rude or anything, but this just seems like a rant.

[Barometria]

As far as I know, Fris isn't doing anything wrong. Not really trying to sound rude or anything, but this just seems like a rant.

If you had read said rant, then you would see that I said no fewer than a dozen times by now that he is doing nothing wrong.

[Frisbeeteria]

This will end if he increases all of his standing Epic BIDS to .51.

Having fun tilting at windmills, are we?

I'm still buying and selling about the same amount of cards as always. If people out bid me (including you), they'll win the auction unless I decide to get in the action. If I happen to notice you and your quest to disrupt me, I'll make a penny or two off of you just because it amuses me to do so.

I'm not changing my strategy. You're not the first to try some quixotic crusade, and you probably won't be the last.

[Tarockanien]

Reading his old post in that old thread makes me think about that saying of:
"When you're young you're socialist, when you grow older you're liberal, and when you find out how things work you become conservative."

...only if you´re an opportunist...

[Barometria]

This will end if he increases all of his standing Epic BIDS to .51.

Having fun tilting at windmills, are we?

I'm still buying and selling about the same amount of cards as always. If people out bid me (including you), they'll win the auction unless I decide to get in the action. If I happen to notice you and your quest to disrupt me, I'll make a penny or two off of you just because it amuses me to do so.

I'm not changing my strategy. You're not the first to try some quixotic crusade, and you probably won't be the last.

There's no way that your BUY rate is the same as normal, unless you count your puppets you had flood the market earlier to try to nail me on a bunch of .51 bids. You got me with two or three of them, I'll give you that. I figured it out, though, only someone skilled at the game could have got those all listed so quickly.

---Since I've got you on the line, why is there a security error anytime you try to do something with, "Open in new tab?" That totally sucks and they should fix it. Have to refresh the page every time, or get the error and try again. (It always works the second time)

[Tarockanien]

I'm not changing my strategy. You're not the first to try some quixotic crusade, and you probably won't be the last.

Nevertheless, and especially as a mod, you have to accept, that a lot of people (players) find your (and not only your alone) practice of bidding at junk value (or even below) very annoying and somehow even disrespectful of other players. And since you´re a mod (which moves you in some special position in this case), you shouldn´t ignore such rants like barometrias, but maybe give the subject a second thought.

[Barometria]

This was fun for a time, unfortunately, real life pursuits prevent me from playing this game with The Frisbee any further.

I hope that anyone who reads this thread, particularly the first post, will be able to deal in the EPIC Market in a fashion that best mitigates Frisbeeteria's total dominance of the market.

The ultimate reasons that the Frisbeeterian Empire has grown to such an extent are pretty simple:

1.) Drive. Frisbeeteria is extremely driven to be dominant in this market and is also extremely successful in that regard. Effectively, the only way to really compete for market control with him would be to do the same exact thing he does, but be willing to settle for smaller margins. This would require the accumulation of great bank, as well as significant time and patience.

2.) Intelligence. Frisbeeteria plays this game extremely well and writes eloquently. He comes off as an extremely intelligent person. What he has accomplished in this game is nothing short of impressive.

3.) Lack of Regulation. In addition to his shrewd practices, the fact that the game has very few regulations/rules also accounts for his success. He is able to bid AT junk value, that would be more fair if not allowed. He can also play both sides simultaneously on the same market run, which similarly, would be more fair if not allowed.

This has been a demonstration and analysis of strong tactics in this game.

In keeping with the theme of this website, Frisbeeteria's MOST EXCELLENT WORK also serves as an example of the dangers of completely unchecked capitalism. Regulations, such as those mentioned above that do not exist, would at least make the possibility to dominate the market completely much tougher.

Even if these regulations were in place, I firmly believe that The Frisbee would still find a way to be amongst the best, if not the very best, in this market. Even in a more regulated structure, the brightest and the most determined will always find ways to succeed. The difference being that the regulatory mechanisms will enable a greater number of people to also succeed to a smaller extent.

Either today or tomorrow, I will compose a general thread as to semi-advanced tactics in this game. I hope that this thread will exist in the spirit of free exchange of information and will help other players improve bank and whatever it is that they want to collect. No matter what you are collecting, improving your bank always helps with that.

I would like to thank Frisbeeteria for a most enjoyable case study as well as a fun time playing the game against him the last couple of days. While I do hope new regulations will eventually come to pass, I wish him continued success in the game he so enjoys.

The remark about, "Sympathy," a few pages ago was kind of a bluff-type remark. Why would he need my sympathy? He is one of the best, if not the very best, at something he clearly really enjoys doing...and who could ever hope for more than that?

All is fair in love, war and cards.

May everyone have a tremendous weekend!

[Barometria]

Nevertheless, and especially as a mod, you have to accept, that a lot of people (players) find your (and not only your alone) practice of bidding at junk value (or even below) very annoying and somehow even disrespectful of other players. And since you´re a mod (which moves you in some special position in this case), you shouldn´t ignore such rants like barometrias, but maybe give the subject a second thought.

Just to clarify, I have never once seen The Frisbee bid below JV. Despicable Bidding Practices would probably love nothing more than to be able to add The Frisbee to his list for that! LOL