[Idea] Safe bank transfer system needed please!

[Lone survivers]

But that has always been possible - by gifting cards...

[Red Millennium]

But that has always been possible - by gifting cards...

Only the card's junk price. That is 1.00 for legendary cards- and nobody junks a legendary card to get 1 bank.

[Destructive Government Economic System]

Only the card's junk price. That is 1.00 for legendary cards- and nobody junks a legendary card to get 1 bank.

That's why you just... sell the legendary card?

[The Strangers Club]

Only the card's junk price. That is 1.00 for legendary cards- and nobody junks a legendary card to get 1 bank.

That's why you just... sell the legendary card?

Yes, but still no safe bank transfer.

[The Strangers Club]

I have a idea. How about allowing nations to gift money to other nations if they pay the same amount of money to be able to do that?

This is what I am suggesting.

[SherpDaWerp]

I have a idea. How about allowing nations to gift money to other nations if they pay the same amount of money to be able to do that?

This is what I am suggesting.

Then your suggestion is already in the game!

1. Spend 0.50 to gift an epic card from Nation 1 to Nation 2
2. Junk said card on nation 2
3. What has just happened is you've paid 0.50 bank on nation 1, and received 0.50 bank on nation 2.

[The Strangers Club]

This is what I am suggesting.

Then your suggestion is already in the game!

1. Spend 0.50 to gift an epic card from Nation 1 to Nation 2
2. Junk said card on nation 2
3. What has just happened is you've paid 0.50 bank on nation 1, and received 0.50 bank on nation 2.

[Noel]

Not really. You have to pull cards to transfer them, and you are losing the value of the cards you transfer away, so there is no value coming in. Someone playing casually with a few puppets will have to resign themselves to not making bank for weeks just to transfer like 6.50 value that accumulates.

(Not to mention that you will inevitably just pull commons every time you do get new cards.)

The only practical way to transfer bank for players without farms is with risky high offers.

[9003]

Not really. You have to pull cards to transfer them, and you are losing the value of the cards you transfer away, so there is no value coming in. Someone playing casually with a few puppets will have to resign themselves to not making bank for weeks just to transfer like 6.50 value that accumulates.

(Not to mention that you will inevitably just pull commons every time you do get new cards.)

The only practical way to transfer bank for players without farms is with risky high offers.

no....?

As if you mostly open commons the .01 bank slowly adds up most bank comes from pulling a legendary card or UR+. Legendary gift it to you main then sell if you want the bank for it, and as for UR+ if you junk until you have .50 it doesn't take long for a puppet to get an epic. (I started and did that method for a long time). It only takes pulling 2 epics to send the bank over and if we had a safe transfer with "tax" it would still be every 2 epicsish so I'm kinda confused by what your saying

[Fauzjhia]

Transfer is still a problem with the on going system that allow big farmers to seperate themselves in term of wealth from everyone, and that leave small next to no chance to score in the international Artwork ladder. Unless, they create hundred of puppets and start playing with thoses.

I'm way more worried about some people overbid me, and preventing me from completing my collection, then transfers, that said, I had a transfer system, that mainly rely on not too highy transfer and rare cards with low owners, as well as a good time to pull thoses transfers.

[Lone survivers]

The only practical way to transfer bank for players without farms is with risky high offers.

Dont you forget a point ? Players without farms have no need of bank transfers, as they have just a single nation...

[Refuge Isle]

Transfer is still a problem with the on going system that allow big farmers to seperate themselves in term of wealth from everyone, and that leave small next to no chance to score in the international Artwork ladder. Unless, they create hundred of puppets and start playing with thoses.

I'm way more worried about some people overbid me, and preventing me from completing my collection, then transfers, that said, I had a transfer system, that mainly rely on not too highy transfer and rare cards with low owners, as well as a good time to pull thoses transfers.

Ironically, the concept of a no-risk transfer system is established to make high transfers of bank difficult for the people who put a lot of time into the card game. Following the suggestion in this thread would exacerbate the wealth divide, not shrink it.

There are ways of coping with the system, just like there are techniques to learn in any well-thought out game. You are free to use those like anyone else. I don't urge anyone to try to compete with people who have put a thousand hours into this minigame, and it's always been very silly to me that they're demonized for being obsessive. If you answers issues regularly, you can easily get to a gold badge in cards with like five nations over the course of the season.

Dont you forget a point ? Players without farms have no need of bank transfers, as they have just a single nation...

No idea what the purpose is for this moral high ground remark of having a single nation. I, too, like to pretend GP doesn't exist.

[Palmira]

Ironically, the concept of a no-risk transfer system is established to make high transfers of bank difficult for the people who put a lot of time into the card game. Following the suggestion in this thread would exacerbate the wealth divide, not shrink it.

There are ways of coping with the system, just like there are techniques to learn in any well-thought out game. You are free to use those like anyone else. I don't urge anyone to try to compete with people who have put a thousand hours into this minigame, and it's always been very silly to me that they're demonized for being obsessive. If you answers issues regularly, you can easily get to a gold badge in cards with like five nations over the course of the season.

I can't speak for the others but I was not "demonizing" "obsessive" card farmers. If you labored on your farm to grow your deck(s) and your bank, more power to you. What I was complaining about were repetitive behaviors. Here are some examples of a few nations' behavior patterns:

- Bank heists by nations with banks exceeding 500 when the nations transferring bank had less than 5 bank.

- Nations with banks of more than 100 outbidding nations with banks of less than 7 over a card that is selling for around 0.01-0.15 when there is another listing for 0.20-0.35 which the larger bank nation could buy instead. In some cases the 100+bank nation owned one or more copies of the card at auction.

- Nations with banks of more than 500 placing high bids on a card which drives the acquisition price up, and, when smaller bank nations try to bid, either outbidding the smaller bank nation or worse, selling one of the larger bank nation's multiple copies of the card at the high bid price so that the larger bank nation can buy the card at the lower ask. IOW, the larger bank nation has multiple copies of the card but is not willing to let the smaller bank nations acquire their first copy. This is not about buying your own card in which case such behavior is understandable.

You can argue that these behaviors are permitted by the mini-game. While they may be legal, they are repugnant.

[Racoda]

Here are some examples of a few nations' behavior patterns:

- Bank heists by nations with banks exceeding 500 when the nations transferring bank had less than 5 bank.

There is an inherent risk in transferring bank. Heists are a good mechanic — risk is needed to balance the game. If you're doing it right, you won't lose more than 50% of the transfer. If you're doing a mass-copy transfer that's even lower. People looking primarily after their own interests is nothing new.

- Nations with banks of more than 100 outbidding nations with banks of less than 7 over a card that is selling for around 0.01-0.15 when there is another listing for 0.20-0.35 which the larger bank nation could buy instead. In some cases the 100+bank nation owned one or more copies of the card at auction.

I don't personally have the time to check the bank of every auction participant before outbidding them. Regardless, it's not unexpected that I'd rather pay less than more. Why match the 0.20 listing when I can have the card for 0.05 or 0.10?

- Nations with banks of more than 500 placing high bids on a card which drives the acquisition price up, and, when smaller bank nations try to bid, either outbidding the smaller bank nation or worse, selling one of the larger bank nation's multiple copies of the card at the high bid price so that the larger bank nation can buy the card at the lower ask. IOW, the larger bank nation has multiple copies of the card but is not willing to let the smaller bank nations acquire their first copy.

There's two things here.

1. Outbidding and dropping are basic supply and demand. Placing a bid for 100 means you are willing to pay 100.
2. If you're complaining about artificially inflated cards, you'd be a fool to want to buy one for the deck value, as it's all in the hands of one (or a few) nations.

This is not about buying your own card in which case such behavior is understandable.

I fail to see how it being your own card justifies it.

Yes, a free card market leads to “repugnant” behaviour. I would recommend you either try to come to some agreement (mutual non-heisting pact? ) with people you consider exhibiting “repugnant behavior”, use more aggressive tactics (ex. bid in large increments) in a bidding war to ward them off or simply don't trade with them (this one's hard).
I keep a list of people that have another kind of repugnant behaviour and am actively trying to prevent it.

A safe transfer system wouldn't solve any of the issues you presented (the first two are more moral outrage on your part than a problem with the game mechanics). People being able to safely transfer bank with no loss doesn't mean they'll stop trying to earn money by dropping or save money by penny-bidding. They're not doing it because they've lost bank during a transfer, but because it is another, minute source of income, and they have too many minutes to spare.

[Lone survivers]

Dont you forget a point ? Players without farms have no need of bank transfers, as they have just a single nation...

No idea what the purpose is for this moral high ground remark of having a single nation. I, too, like to pretend GP doesn't exist.

That´s not a "morale high ground remark", but I suspect, you didn´t get the point; maybe you should reread again.

[Barometria]

Greetings from Barometria!

For those of you wishing to conduct transfers, if you have a habit of just junking low rarity cards, don't, take a good look at them first. There are many cards that have only one owner and I am the owner of probably four to six (last I checked) such cards currently...counting...um...."Ally," nations, we'll call them.

Anyway, put in an ask or bid (it really doesn't matter, you own the only card) of $0.01, then match it at $0.01. Wait until there are only a few minutes (I like 1-3) left in the auction and then change your bid to your entire bankroll IF YOU ARE STILL THE ONLY OWNER (REFRESH PAGE). If you are not still the only owner, just sell the card to yourself for one cent.

Make sure to keep an eye on the auction!!! Someone might outbid your ridiculously high bid hoping to quick flip you with a snipe. I snipe people all the time, but not on OBVIOUS bank transfers. Anyway, if someone tries to snipe you and do a turnaround on the BID side, let them have the card and just pull your BID. What will end up happening is your intended recipient will get THAT nation's money instead and your intended sender will keep its money. You'll lose the card, and that sucks, obviously.

Anyway, if you do not have any single-owner cards and wish to do a transfer, just send me a TG and I will LEND IT TO YOU if I have extra. I define, "Extra," as in if Barometria and its allies have more than two, combined. If it gets snatched by a different nation, then you do not have to return it to me. But, if your transfer completes successfully, I expect my card back if it is still only one owner.

Return of the card is all I ask. Thank you and have a great day! As long as you are attentive, this is as zero-risk as you can get. Only possible risk would be someone pulling the card within 90 seconds (if you wait as long as you can) and then sniping you on the ASK side. Not likely, but possible. Might happen 1 in 1000 times or something crazy.

[Barometria]

Here are two examples:

https://www.nationstates.net/page=deck/ ... 4/season=2

https://www.nationstates.net/page=deck/ ... 9/season=2

As I write this, nobody owns either of those two cards except for Barometria. (See bottom of page)

That means nobody can do anything on the ASK side because it's not possible. When I say, "Lend to you," I mean I will GIFT the card that you are BORROWING and I expect it to be gifted back. I will not hold responsible if the card is obtained by an unintended party. I am not concerned with the 0.01 bank it will cost me to send you the card.

So, if you want to do a transfer and are careful, it will only cost you the $0.01 to GIFT me the card back when you are done with it.

[Haruhi Japan]

Here are two examples:

https://www.nationstates.net/page=deck/ ... 4/season=2

https://www.nationstates.net/page=deck/ ... 9/season=2

As I write this, nobody owns either of those two cards except for Barometria. (See bottom of page)

That means nobody can do anything on the ASK side because it's not possible. When I say, "Lend to you," I mean I will GIFT the card that you are BORROWING and I expect it to be gifted back. I will not hold responsible if the card is obtained by an unintended party. I am not concerned with the 0.01 bank it will cost me to send you the card.

So, if you want to do a transfer and are careful, it will only cost you the $0.01 to GIFT me the card back when you are done with it.

Eh, it's worth a shot I guess. Hit me up with one of those single owner cards please!

[Barometria]

You've got it, please don't forget these things:

1.) ASK and BID $0.01 on both sides. Why ASK? True you will only transfer half of the intended amount, but nobody can underask you on the off chance they pull the card and see what you are doing.

2.) Wait until there is very little time before switching to the big BID amount. Seconds. Keep an eye for someone to BID more than that and pull your bid immediately if they do.

3.) Please send the card back! It's on the way!

[9003]

You've got it, please don't forget these things:

1.) ASK and BID $0.01 on both sides. Why ASK? True you will only transfer half of the intended amount, but nobody can underask you on the off chance they pull the card and see what you are doing.

2.) Wait until there is very little time before switching to the big BID amount. Seconds. Keep an eye for someone to BID more than that and pull your bid immediately if they do.

3.) Please send the card back! It's on the way!

While quite Nobel what your doing lending low in this case single owner cards out it's worth making sure that the nation the card is of is a CTE nation and worth noting by asking for .01 you are setting your self up to have someone pull the card list it at the total amount of your bank and buy the low copy for .01

While this is the safest method of transfering I do recommend asking full price and then working anyone who tries to sell to about half but I still appprracte you lending cards out (I don't need the services just think it's neat)

[Barometria]

While quite Nobel what your doing lending low in this case single owner cards out it's worth making sure that the nation the card is of is a CTE nation and worth noting by asking for .01 you are setting your self up to have someone pull the card list it at the total amount of your bank and buy the low copy for .01

While this is the safest method of transfering I do recommend asking full price and then working anyone who tries to sell to about half but I still appprracte you lending cards out (I don't need the services just think it's neat)

Thanks 9003! There's always a little bit of risk, very small, but I like the idea of keeping the entire management aspect on the BUY side. Have the BID set to fire at the max amount, then with five seconds left, fire off the bid if you are still the only owner. Someone would have to get the card pack, open it, check it and make the play all in 65 seconds, so not likely. If anyone else over bids on the BID side, then you just pull your bid immediately and the other nation ends up paying your nation half of whatever amount they bid.

Anyway, I think people should read what you said and what I said and do whichever they are most comfortable with. For me, it's easier to only have to worry about the BUY side of things the whole time.

[Barometria]

Okay, so I have created a collection called No Regerts:

https://www.nationstates.net/page=deck/collection=20457

These are the cards I can lend out as long as there are more than two. Any card in this collection will have four, or fewer, owners. Two of the cards in this collection cannot be lent out because I’m trying to buy the other copies from other active card players.

Another card has one other owner, but that owner has not participated in the card game in well over fifty days. No issues voted on in like 10 days or something. If I see them do anything, I’ll shoot a TG to try to buy the other copy.

I’ll also have a BUY order on cards in this collection to hopefully keep me sole owner of them. I’ll remove any BUY order before sending you the card if I lend it to you.

[Barometria]

Greetings!

For some reason, someone thought my offer to lend cards out to people was somehow a gimmick and that I would get something out of it or take advantage of the situation somehow. I don't see how that is possible if someone owns the only copy of a card, but whatever.

Anyway, I have divested my entire collection of cards for ALL nations under my control. I'm also paying to GIFT you the card that you are BORROWING, so I really don't see how this benefits me in fake money. I just want the game to be more fun for people and to give players with lower bank a fighting chance.

Anyway, I'm going to do a listing of single-owner cards that I possess. If you're interested in BORROWING a card, then shoot me a telegram.

My list will generally be posted at around 13:00 GMT starting tomorrow. I will generally check telegram requests to BORROW at this time, 17:00 GMT, 21:00 GMT and MAYBE 25:00 GMT (Don't count on it) depending on what I have going on.

Please just shoot a telegram if you want to borrow any. I'm not going to link to the individual cards at this time because, after I made my post yesterday, people started putting bids in on the cards because the post identified low-owner (single owner) cards. There's a surprise, right? You try to do something nice for people and others just have to try to take advantage of it.

CARD CATEGORIES

I am putting the cards into three general categories, though I am not creating collections for them:

Almost Zero Risk
Minimal Risk
Low Risk

Almost Zero Risk---These are cards where there is only one card and only one owner. There might also be multiple cards, but I own all of them, if so.

Minimal Risk---These are cards with multiple owners, though three or fewer, where the other owners have shown NO EVIDENCE of being active in the trading card game in terms of buying/selling.

Low Risk---These are cards that have anywhere from 2-4 owners and have demonstrated low activity in the trading card game.

CURRENT INVENTORY:

Almost Zero Risk: 7
Minimal Risk: 9
Low Risk: 2

Hopefully, I'll gather enough Almost Zero Risk and Minimal Risk cards that I won't even bother keeping/tracking Low Risk cards. Maybe we can end up with nothing but Almost Zero Risk cards.

Can I Help?

The only way you could really help is to GIFT me any single-owner cards you might pull, but really, you should keep them if you get them.

Best Practices:

Here is the best way to go about using these cards when you have borrowed them:

1.) Wait as long as possible before increasing the BID amount. Or do it the way 9003 likes, if you prefer...I see his point, I just think that way is harder to manage. I also don't think there's a huge probability of someone getting a pack, pulling the card, seeing the transactions and making the overask all in 65 seconds. Again, if anyone outbids you (after you have done your big bid) just cancel your bid immediately.

2.) PLEASE ACTUALLY REMEMBER TO DO THE BIG TRANSFER: Yesterday a card both bought and sold for 0.01. The thing is, these single owner cards are probably only going to remain such for a few days, per card, as it is...and mostly because people just junk them.

--However, for some reason, cards are slightly more likely to be generated in a new pack if they are already on the market. People seem to agree this is true, but nobody really knows why. If it is true, then every time the single owner card touches the market, the probability of it being pulled increases and it is not single owner anymore.

3.) Make sure it is still single owner before you put the big bid in. Number of owners is located at the bottom of the page. If you see it is not, do not put the big bid in. You must refresh the page or this number will not update.

Anyway, TG me if you need a single owner card. Inventory is pretty good right now since that is basically all I am keeping.

[Barometria]

Someone wanted to camp one of the low risk cards I was holding to try to help people by sitting at .75 on the BID side. Congratulations to them, because that's what I just sold it to them for!

I'll adjust as I go, but it looks like getting single owner cards isn't really a huge problem, so I don't mind parting with that low risk card with one other owner.

EDIT: And, like five more! I like helping people, but I'll sell 0.01 cards with multiple owners for .75 apiece all day long, folks, just say the word. Still not selling cards that only I own, though, someone might want to borrow them.

FAIR WARNING TO YOU: If your 1.16 bid is still sitting there on my single owner cards and someone else draws the card (thereby resulting in multiple owners) I'm dropping the card on you at 1.16. You might want to think about pulling your bid...or significantly reducing it.

[Barometria]

I did this transaction so people can see how it works, other than that, I really had no reason to do this at this time:

https://www.nationstates.net/page=deck/ ... 8/season=2

Okay, so Barometria puts the card up for auction at $0.01. There was already a $0.01 bid out there, but that is of no concern, I just had The Bayou Commonwealth bid $0.02 to give myself a chance to get the card back if I got distracted or something.

With 30 seconds left in the auction, The Bayou Commonwealth refreshed the page and saw that Barometria is still the only owner of the card. (You can see the number of owners at the bottom) With less than five seconds left, The Bayou Commonwealth made a bid of $14.80, this was successful, and the card was sold to Barometria for $7.41. The Bayou Commonwealth then paid $0.01 to gift the card back to Barometria.

If someone had outbid The Bayou Commonwealth in the last minute of the auction, (keep watch) then The Bayou Commonwealth would simply remove its bid and Barometria would still sell the card, but perhaps even for a slightly higher amount. I've actually had this happen once! It is essential that The Bayou Commonwealth remove the bid when this happens, because if the bid still sits there, the person who buys the card off of Barometria can sell it to Bayou Commonwealth at a higher price three minutes later. BONUS: Bayou Commonwealth also gets to keep its money if someone else buys and Bayou has removed its bid.

Also, if someone pulls the card and puts in a higher ASK in that sixty seconds, you're screwed. Nothing you can do. That is a very unlikely event, though, because you will have checked to make sure that Barometria is still the only owner of the card at the time Bayou increases the bid.

I took screenshots of all of this if anyone requests to see them. I'll have to figure out how to put the screenshots on a website, but I'll figure it out if someone needs a visual aid to understand the transaction.