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Coffin-Breathe
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Postby Coffin-Breathe » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:30 am

Fauzjhia wrote:Well. this will certain hurt a lot of big farmers . who still dominate the Trading cards.
And yes, there is nothing to do, when someone has more nations then me and use them all to get cards/ bank.
But, if season 2 its own game, then at least, big farmer will have to work a bit for that money.

Would be easy to come by : same precedure as with WA-accounts - only main account (nation) gets cards then...

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9003
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Founded: Oct 25, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby 9003 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:22 pm

Coffin-Breathe wrote:
Fauzjhia wrote:Well. this will certain hurt a lot of big farmers . who still dominate the Trading cards.
And yes, there is nothing to do, when someone has more nations then me and use them all to get cards/ bank.
But, if season 2 its own game, then at least, big farmer will have to work a bit for that money.

Would be easy to come by : same precedure as with WA-accounts - only main account (nation) gets cards then...



What about people who are banned from the WA they also can't play with the cards?
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Canyamel
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Postby Canyamel » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:43 pm

9003 wrote:
Coffin-Breathe wrote:Would be easy to come by : same precedure as with WA-accounts - only main account (nation) gets cards then...



What about people who are banned from the WA they also can't play with the cards?

I think he means that only one nation per person could trade with cards. The WA is only the example, it would be a separated thing.

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Giant Baba
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Postby Giant Baba » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:20 am

Coffin-Breathe wrote:
Fauzjhia wrote:Well. this will certain hurt a lot of big farmers . who still dominate the Trading cards.
And yes, there is nothing to do, when someone has more nations then me and use them all to get cards/ bank.
But, if season 2 its own game, then at least, big farmer will have to work a bit for that money.

Would be easy to come by : same precedure as with WA-accounts - only main account (nation) gets cards then...


Ironically, if future card trading were limited to one nation per player, the drain in market activity and liquidity would in many ways make current single nation card players worse off than under the current system.

By definition, it would drastically drain activity from the market. Fewer nations trading would equal fewer cards in circulation, which would result in less Asks being posted. Single nation card players who log into the Market in hopes of finding a specific card available for trade would find a much more barren landscape. This would narrow the odds of all players to buy their own card or develop a specialty niche collection.

Less market activity would also drain liquidity from the market. Not only would players find less cards in circulation, but there would also be less money in the economy to purchase those fewer cards. Interest in the card game would probably drop off because their would be less ways to play on a daily basis. The Nationstates site itself would also take a hit in ad revenue and online engagement that the card farming process brings about. Those are some of the trade offs.

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Fauzjhia
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Postby Fauzjhia » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:12 am

you figure that if it was good idea, Nationstates, would have choosen that a long time, when they were discussing how to deal with large puppet farmers.

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Ter Voland
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Postby Ter Voland » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:52 am

Coffin-Breathe wrote:
Ter Voland wrote:I have an idea. Display a warning if you try to put a bid above x amount. This warning could be disabled. I'm paranoid of putting a 15.00 bid whenever I try to bid 0.15.

...not having 15.00 bank would release you from that sorrow... :p

Haha you're right.

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Canyamel
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Postby Canyamel » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:34 pm

Fauzjhia wrote:you figure that if it was good idea, Nationstates, would have choosen that a long time, when they were discussing how to deal with large puppet farmers.

Yes, in the end, Nationstates needs to choose the best option and none of them is perfect. There will always be a problem in some point but they need to choose the best option in general, and some people will have an advantage and others a disadvantage.

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Coffin-Breathe
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Postby Coffin-Breathe » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:04 am

[quote="Giant Baba";p="36032883"
Ironically, if future card trading were limited to one nation per player, the drain in market activity and liquidity would in many ways make current single nation card players worse off than under the current system.[/quote]

Wouldn´t be so bad, if you get a new pack with every issue answered. And at least this would level the playground while not draining out the market. In fact, I suppose it would be much fairer, and easier to get "niche" or even "real interest" collections while hopefully spare the community such excesses like "the all common/uncommon/rare/aso collection", sidelong uninteresting bank transfers between multy-puppet accounts or players with seeming limitless card-storage capacity or banks of hundreds or thousands. This by the way also would regulate the overboarding inflation of prices for legendaries to a reasonable level, I guess, which at the moment are simply unaffordable for normal "single nation players", because without being extremely lucky or using dozens or even hundreds of "farms" no one would have banks of hundreds to pay up multiple times for asks of twenty, fifty or even hundred. Therefore it would stop "megalomania" right in the tracks, and bring back the game to a more funny and fair level for everyone (except the "megalomaniacs" and profiteers of the current system, of course).
And if NS takes a hit because of this (which I don´t think, because there are not more users, only more accounts at the moment), so be it; remember, it supposed to be "our" game, not the game of google...

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Canyamel
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Postby Canyamel » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:42 am

Coffin-Breathe wrote:Wouldn´t be so bad, if you get a new pack with every issue answered. And at least this would level the playground while not draining out the market. In fact, I suppose it would be much fairer, and easier to get "niche" or even "real interest" collections while hopefully spare the community such excesses like "the all common/uncommon/rare/aso collection", sidelong uninteresting bank transfers between multy-puppet accounts or players with seeming limitless card-storage capacity or banks of hundreds or thousands. This by the way also would regulate the overboarding inflation of prices for legendaries to a reasonable level, I guess, which at the moment are simply unaffordable for normal "single nation players", because without being extremely lucky or using dozens or even hundreds of "farms" no one would have banks of hundreds to pay up multiple times for asks of twenty, fifty or even hundred. Therefore it would stop "megalomania" right in the tracks, and bring back the game to a more funny and fair level for everyone (except the "megalomaniacs" and profiteers of the current system, of course).
And if NS takes a hit because of this (which I don´t think, because there are not more users, only more accounts at the moment), so be it; remember, it supposed to be "our" game, not the game of google...

A new pack every issue would make Nationstates a card game and not a game about answering issues to build your nation. I mean, the cards aren't the main game and getting new packs every issue would make puppets stronger. Although you've got a good point because if there were more cards, prices would be lower; it all follows the law of supply and demand in economics.

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Novum Imperium Atlanticum
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Postby Novum Imperium Atlanticum » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:47 am

Scrap ex-nation cards from the system. Update existing ones with more up to date information displayed on them.

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Coffin-Breathe
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Postby Coffin-Breathe » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:22 am

Canyamel wrote:A new pack every issue would make Nationstates a card game and not a game about answering issues to build your nation. I mean, the cards aren't the main game and getting new packs every issue would make puppets stronger. Although you've got a good point because if there were more cards, prices would be lower; it all follows the law of supply and demand in economics.


I´m afraid, you didn´t get my point : my post was an answer to another, and I would go with a pack for every answer, but only one nation (like in the WA) for every confirmed user account is allowed to participate in the game ! And the laws of "supply and demand" are not true nor of revelance to the current system, because the supply is free and as good as unlimited for everyone willing to create and manage big "farms", while there´s almost no "real" demand.

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Canyamel
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Postby Canyamel » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:31 am

Coffin-Breathe wrote:
Canyamel wrote:A new pack every issue would make Nationstates a card game and not a game about answering issues to build your nation. I mean, the cards aren't the main game and getting new packs every issue would make puppets stronger. Although you've got a good point because if there were more cards, prices would be lower; it all follows the law of supply and demand in economics.


I´m afraid, you didn´t get my point : my post was an answer to another, and I would go with a pack for every answer, but only one nation (like in the WA) for every confirmed user account is allowed to participate in the game ! And the laws of "supply and demand" are not true nor of revelance to the current system, because the supply is free and as good as unlimited for everyone willing to create and manage big "farms", while there´s almost no "real" demand.

Sorry! Now I understand your point. Having only one nation that can trade with cards per person is a very good idea but it could be a bit difficult to implement in the game as they wouldn't be able to add it from the beggining. And by the laws of supply and demand I was refering to the legendaries, because there's a huge demand but very few people want to sell them at a cheap price, although common cards have lots of sellers but not many buyers.
Last edited by Canyamel on Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Canyamel
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Postby Canyamel » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:35 am

Novum Imperium Atlanticum wrote:Scrap ex-nation cards from the system. Update existing ones with more up to date information displayed on them.

If you take a look at the current cards, they say "Season one", so it's supposed that in the future they will add new seasons with all the cards from nations at the time of starting the season, meaning that they won't update the season 1 cards (although they updated them when they were reintroduced in December last year).

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Giant Baba
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Postby Giant Baba » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:59 am

Coffin-Breathe wrote:Wouldn´t be so bad, if you get a new pack with every issue answered. And at least this would level the playground while not draining out the market.


This would simply institutionalize a different system of inequity, one that couldn't be overcome without a player fundamentally changing how they use their single nation card receiving account. Those who are more active in answering issues would become the 'haves', with those who max out on the number of issues they receive daily, log in most consistently and never dismiss any of their issues becoming the new 1%. Those who play more sporadically, strategically dismiss issues, choose to take less issues daily and/or use vacation mode would become institutionalized 'have-nots'. Unlike with the current system (create a new account to get more cards) there would be no way for a player to use an alternative strategy to generate more cards, they would be boxed into how they use this single nation card generator. For these types of players, they would now become victims of circumstance with no choice but to either conform or remain 'have-nots' going forward in perpetuity.

Coffin-Breathe wrote:In fact, I suppose it would be much fairer, and easier to get "niche" or even "real interest" collections while hopefully spare the community such excesses like "the all common/uncommon/rare/aso collection", sidelong uninteresting bank transfers between multy-puppet accounts or players with seeming limitless card-storage capacity or banks of hundreds or thousands. This by the way also would regulate the overboarding inflation of prices for legendaries to a reasonable level, I guess, which at the moment are simply unaffordable for normal "single nation players", because without being extremely lucky or using dozens or even hundreds of "farms" no one would have banks of hundreds to pay up multiple times for asks of twenty, fifty or even hundred.

Therefore it would stop "megalomania" right in the tracks, and bring back the game to a more funny and fair level for everyone (except the "megalomaniacs" and profiteers of the current system, of course).


It wouldn't accomplish this at all, it would simply change the method of how "megalomaniacs" and profiteers of the new system arrive at their stations. Price inflation, affordability issues, bank disparities, etc would all remain, their methods would just take a different path.

Coffin-Breathe wrote:And if NS takes a hit because of this (which I don´t think, because there are not more users, only more accounts at the moment), so be it; remember, it supposed to be "our" game, not the game of google...


The ad dollars are generated by page views, not unique users. With less site views through the card farming process, your idea would cause Nationstates to take a financial hit. It is what it is

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9003
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Founded: Oct 25, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby 9003 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:43 am

Coffin-Breathe wrote:And if NS takes a hit because of this (which I don´t think, because there are not more users, only more accounts at the moment), so be it; remember, it supposed to be "our" game, not the game of google...


The ad dollars are generated by page views, not unique users. With less site views through the card farming process, your idea would cause Nationstates to take a financial hit. It is what it is[/quote]



While farming I often am off the page before the ad loads and thus I do not believe it counts (I even turned my ad block off for farming just to give NS a little extra jingle)
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Giant Baba
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Founded: Jun 23, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Giant Baba » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:39 am

9003 wrote:While farming I often am off the page before the ad loads and thus I do not believe it counts (I even turned my ad block off for farming just to give NS a little extra jingle)


When CF on my mobile (Pixel using Chrome) I get hit with a huge ad that covers the log out button EVERYTIME that I need to change accounts. I reported the Ad on the prompt as 'covers content' but it still keeps showing up. At least I know it's going to NS. I view it as a voluntary site supporter contribution. :)

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Canyamel
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Founded: Oct 31, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Canyamel » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:20 am

Giant Baba wrote:When CF on my mobile (Pixel using Chrome) I get hit with a huge ad that covers the log out button EVERYTIME that I need to change accounts. I reported the Ad on the prompt as 'covers content' but it still keeps showing up. At least I know it's going to NS. I view it as a voluntary site supporter contribution. :)

That's interesting because I also use Chrome on my mobile phone and I don't have this ad that you say. I suppose it depends on the screen size because Chrome doesn't block ads in mobile phone (but there's a setting where you can turn off annoying ads that cover all the screen).

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Canyamel
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Postby Canyamel » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:16 am

Does anyone have more ideas?
By the way, I read in the forum another idea about the possibility of voting (like or don't like) for people's collections. I think it's a very good idea because we would be able to see lots of collections that people like and also we could see the most important collections on topics, as we have in the post of collections in the forum.
What do you think?

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Earthbound Immortal Squad
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Founded: Jul 12, 2014
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Postby Earthbound Immortal Squad » Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:11 pm

Giant Baba wrote:
Coffin-Breathe wrote:Would be easy to come by : same precedure as with WA-accounts - only main account (nation) gets cards then...


Ironically, if future card trading were limited to one nation per player, the drain in market activity and liquidity would in many ways make current single nation card players worse off than under the current system.

By definition, it would drastically drain activity from the market. Fewer nations trading would equal fewer cards in circulation, which would result in less Asks being posted. Single nation card players who log into the Market in hopes of finding a specific card available for trade would find a much more barren landscape. This would narrow the odds of all players to buy their own card or develop a specialty niche collection.

Less market activity would also drain liquidity from the market. Not only would players find less cards in circulation, but there would also be less money in the economy to purchase those fewer cards. Interest in the card game would probably drop off because their would be less ways to play on a daily basis. The Nationstates site itself would also take a hit in ad revenue and online engagement that the card farming process brings about. Those are some of the trade offs.


Why not grant a percentage bonus chance of unlocking a pack for single nation players? Nothing to drastically alter the balance but enough to offer casual players a bit more incentive.
Last edited by Earthbound Immortal Squad on Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fauzjhia
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Postby Fauzjhia » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:25 pm

Interessing idea.

its a strange setting, when you have 47 nations. But even with all those nations. you are nothing to a big farmer of the Top

but how you plan to put that in work ?

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Canyamel
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Postby Canyamel » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:44 am

Fauzjhia wrote:Interessing idea.

its a strange setting, when you have 47 nations. But even with all those nations. you are nothing to a big farmer of the Top

but how you plan to put that in work ?

As Coffin-Breathe said, the idea would be to have something similar to the WA, where only one nation per person is allowed. With the difference that it would be separated from the WA because some people are banned from it.

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Fauzjhia
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Fauzjhia » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:32 am

Canyamel wrote:
Fauzjhia wrote:Interessing idea.

its a strange setting, when you have 47 nations. But even with all those nations. you are nothing to a big farmer of the Top

but how you plan to put that in work ?

As Coffin-Breathe said, the idea would be to have something similar to the WA, where only one nation per person is allowed. With the difference that it would be separated from the WA because some people are banned from it.



they would have done if it was the best idea ever.

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Incredible Bums
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Incredible Bums » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:32 am

I´m afraid, it all comes down to "money rules the world", even here in NS...
...which could be seen as a lesson to those who understand.

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Canyamel
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Postby Canyamel » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:50 am

Fauzjhia wrote:
Canyamel wrote:As Coffin-Breathe said, the idea would be to have something similar to the WA, where only one nation per person is allowed. With the difference that it would be separated from the WA because some people are banned from it.



they would have done if it was the best idea ever.

Yes, maybe it's better to let the people have puppets, because although some nations have lots of cards and lots of money, they make the market bigger by opening card packs and also help people buy the cards they want because they want the money from selling them. Maybe it's not the best system, but I'm sure it's not the worst.

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Canyamel
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Founded: Oct 31, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Canyamel » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:34 am

I've seen that The Northern Light has a very interesting idea with ranks and deck value. If you want to check the idea, it's here.

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