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What Works on Wall Street - Top Trading Tips

The place to wheel and deal, talk shop, and build up your dream deck!
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All Wild Things
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What Works on Wall Street - Top Trading Tips

Postby All Wild Things » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:54 pm

This is a thread about techniques to collect and trade cards. (I'll try and make this post look tidier at some point!)

Hopefully I'm not duplicating any similar thread!
Please, no offers to buy or sell on this thread. Keep it to techniques & useful information only. Thanks!

Official Cards FAQ

Please contribute your tips to this thread. If you can improve on any of the tips, please do! Suggested topics are:

Card Farming (using puppets to generate cards). How do you use your puppets / what do you do with the cards and bank they generate?

Trading

I want a card, but no-one has it up for sale...

Card Flipping (when you have a copy of a card that is at auction, and use it to buy cheap & sell high at the same moment)
How to do it, and what can go wrong.

Best bidding techniques when only one ask price is available

Best bidding techniques when more than one ask price is available

Best asking techniques when there is already another ask

Managing your collections

When you have a lot of cards, managing your collections becomes tricky. Any tips?




What is the maximum number of unopened packs I can have?
What is the maximum number of cards I can hold?
What happens when you hit capacity
Similar

How does card gifting work?
See this thread

How to transfer cash from one nation to another?
Maybe not quite this way - If someone else holds the card you are using for this technique, they can start putting in asks and bids, and end up taking your cash.
These tips improve your chances
Maybe this?

What happens if you bid against yourself?
See here

How to search for cards
try this

How is rarity decided?
Try this
or this
and this

List of all Admin/Mod/Editor Cards
here!

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All Wild Things
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby All Wild Things » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:46 pm

(saving a space for later)

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Christ Triumphant
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Christ Triumphant » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:06 am

The little I have gleaned, thus far:

After the initial 1.00 upgrade to your deck capacity, which brings you from 50 to 100 cards, each subsequent upgrade increases deck capacity by another 100.

1.00 : to 100 capacity

Purchasing Site Supporter status: doubles deck capacity, to 200 capacity

4.00 : to 300 capacity

9.00 : to 400 capacity

From what I've gathered, in order to upgrade, you need to be able to see the little notification asking if you would like to upgrade on your main card page. And this only seems to appear when you are near deck capacity. I have not yet discovered another way to upgrade your deck.

I have no great strategy for trading or making money. I once tried someone's tip on transferring bank from a puppet to a main, which entailed selling a common on my main for all of the puppets bank, and then purchasing that card on the puppet. Theoretically, this would allow your main account to receive all your puppet's bank. HOWEVER, what actually happened was someone else swooped in at last minute with the very same card I was using to transfer funds, and by some combination of black magic and unethical science, ended up inserting his card into the trade in a way that resulted in my purchasing his common card for 7.00, and then my other account selling to him.

I still don't quite understand what happened. I lost money on both ends, and ended with two copies of that common card. Therefore, I have not tried this again.

I simply funnel all cards rare or higher to my main, via gifting, then sell what can be sold and junk all else. This provides a pretty steady stream of funds.

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All Wild Things
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Postby All Wild Things » Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:58 pm

There are a number of things that make the existing auction system unfair.

First, we can see each other's bank balances, see what bids and asks we have, and see our collections.
So if you're trying to outbid someone, you can go and work out their likely maximum bid (= bank balance - total of other bids).
Looking at their collection can give you an idea of how much they really want the card.
Looking at that information helps you decide what to do.
In my opinion, auctions should be anonymous. But they're not, so we're as well to make the most of that.

Another problem is the way bids and asks get matched.

A card had an ask of 0.25, and no other asks.
I was bidding against another player, and had the highest bid at 0.53. I was feeling smug, confident that I would buy the card for 0.39, less than my bid.
Then someone else placed a second Ask - at 0.53, the same price as my bid.
Suddenly my bid was matched to the higher ask, and I was trapped into paying my full bid price.
Meanwhile, the lower bid was matched against the lower ask, giving my rival the benefit of a much cheaper price.
To me, it seemed predatory for someone to place an ask price like that. Of course it felt unfair to me, that my highest bid was matched against the highest ask instead of the lowest.
I don't see how I could have protected myself from that kind of action. I guess that only increasing my bid within the last minute of the auction should reduce the chance of that happening, but that's not always convenient.

I also came off worse in a similar trade, where someone 'flipped' a card. It took me by surprise, so I didn't notice how it was done at the time. So I tried an experiment to replicate it. (Apologies to the person I burnt by doing this - it's an unfair thing to do).
There was an auction on a card I owned.
There was one ask price, and players were bidding higher. The highest bid was 0.40
So I quickly put in a bid at 0.39 (so behind the 0.40, but ahead of the second closest bidder. I since think I should have bid 0.40, as this would be queued behind their 0.40)
Fast as I could, I placed an ask, also for 0.39 (again, I now think this should also have been 0.40)
The original bid of 0.40 was matched to my ask of 0.39, so I was selling the card for a high price.
My bid of 0.39 was matched to the lower ask, so I was buying back the card for a low price.
I ended up with the same card I started with, and also made money - at the expense of the person who bought the card.

I tried it a second time - and Karma took revenge!
This time, the first high bid was 0.21
I bid 0.20, then asked 0.20.
Then someone else bid 0.21...
So the first person to bid 0.21 was matched to my 0.20 ask.
The second person to bid 0.21 was matched to the low ask.
I got a decent price, but I lost the card, which I had wanted for my own collection.
Serves me right for trying an unfair trade - and especially for being stupid enough to try it with a card I wanted to keep!

I think that if I had placed my bid & asks at 0.21, my second 'flipping' trade would have been more secure.
Because my bid would be more recent, it would get queued behind the original 0.21 bid.
So my bid would still get matched to the lowest ask, but no-one could bump me by bidding 0.21.
I guess it could still have gone wrong though, if they bid 0.22.
As the highest bidder, they would be matched to my ask of 0.21.
The original bidder of 0.21 would once again be matched to the lowest ask.
The new bidder would know that they were going to pay the higher price. Maybe that would have been enough to discourage them from getting involved in the auction.

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Aclion
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Aclion » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:44 pm

Two technigues I've been using; When there's more then one seller you can end a bidding war in your favor by bidding 0.01 below the higher bid, this mean that any opponent who outbids you will match at the higher price, and unless another seller comes along you may be matched at significantly less the what you actually bid.

Keep an eye out for auctions where you own the card up for sale. By placing a buy offer and a sell offer strategically you can commit both the buyer and seller to trades with you, and walk away with the difference in their offers.
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It is the citizen's duty to understand which box to use, and when.

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Drop Your Pants
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Postby Drop Your Pants » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:37 am

Aclion wrote:Two technigues I've been using; When there's more then one seller you can end a bidding war in your favor by bidding 0.01 below the higher bid, this mean that any opponent who outbids you will match at the higher price, and unless another seller comes along you may be matched at significantly less the what you actually bid.

The easy work around for evil buyers is to make two high bids and leave you with nothing and then resell the second copy for your bid.
Happily oblivious to NS Drama

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All Wild Things
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Founded: Apr 24, 2017
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Postby All Wild Things » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:55 pm

Busy watching the equivalent of a chess game. Fascinating stuff.

edit: for those of you in real time:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=deck/ ... 6/season=1

Image

Seconds ago: Kokomo Island bid 1.13.
Seconds ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 1.12.
Seconds ago: Ballotonia withdrew a bid of 1.10.
Seconds ago: Ballotonia bid 1.12.
1 minute ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 1.10.
1 minute ago: Kokomo Island bid 1.12.
1 minute ago: Wrapper bid 1.11.
2 minutes ago: Ballotonia asked for 1.44.
3 minutes ago: Wrapper bid 1.45.
3 minutes ago: Wrapper withdrew a bid of 1.09.
4 minutes ago: Ballotonia asked for 1.44.
4 minutes ago: Ballotonia withdrew a bid of 1.09.
4 minutes ago: Ballotonia bid 1.10.
4 minutes ago: Kokomo Island bid 1.45.
5 minutes ago: Kokomo Island bid 1.10.
5 minutes ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 0.90.
5 minutes ago: Ballotonia asked for 1.09.
5 minutes ago: Ballotonia withdrew an ask for 1.30.
5 minutes ago: Ballotonia withdrew a bid of 0.70.
5 minutes ago: Ballotonia bid 1.09.
6 minutes ago: Wrapper withdrew a bid of 0.84.
6 minutes ago: Wrapper bid 1.09.
7 minutes ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 0.80.
7 minutes ago: Kokomo Island bid 0.90.
9 minutes ago: Wrapper bid 0.84.
9 minutes ago: Wrapper withdrew a bid of 0.79.
11 minutes ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 0.72.
11 minutes ago: Kokomo Island bid 0.80.
11 minutes ago: Wrapper bid 0.79.
11 minutes ago: Wrapper withdrew a bid of 0.40.
12 minutes ago: Kokomo Island bid 0.72.
12 minutes ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 0.65.
12 minutes ago: Ballotonia withdrew a bid of 0.60.
12 minutes ago: Ballotonia bid 0.70.
13 minutes ago: Kokomo Island bid 0.65.
13 minutes ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 0.30.
13 minutes ago: Ballotonia withdrew a bid of 0.25.
13 minutes ago: Ballotonia bid 0.60.
14 minutes ago: Wrapper bid 0.40.
15 minutes ago: Kokomo Island bid 0.30.
15 minutes ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 0.26.
17 minutes ago: Frisbeeteria withdrew a bid of 0.21.
17 minutes ago: Frisbeeteria bid 0.29.
48 minutes ago: Kokomo Island bid 0.26.
58 minutes ago: Ballotonia withdrew an ask for 1.40.
58 minutes ago: Ballotonia withdrew an ask for 1.35.
59 minutes ago: Ballotonia bid 0.25.
75 minutes ago: Chale Green asked for 0.21.
Last edited by All Wild Things on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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All Wild Things
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Posts: 141
Founded: Apr 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby All Wild Things » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:18 pm

Keeps going...

Image

Seconds ago: Vilita bid 1.19.
Seconds ago: Kokomo Island bid 1.47.
Seconds ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 1.19.
Seconds ago: Captain Lard withdrew a bid of 1.18.
Seconds ago: Vilita bid 1.19.
Seconds ago: Vilita withdrew a bid of 1.16.
Seconds ago: Vilita bid 1.19.
Seconds ago: Vilita withdrew a bid of 1.16.
Seconds ago: Kokomo Island bid 1.19.
Seconds ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 1.18.
2 minutes ago: Captain Lard bid 1.18.
2 minutes ago: Captain Lard withdrew a bid of 1.17.
Seconds ago: Kokomo Island bid 1.18.
Seconds ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 1.17.
Seconds ago: Captain Lard bid 1.17.
Seconds ago: Captain Lard withdrew a bid of 1.16.
Seconds ago: Kokomo Island bid 1.17.
Seconds ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 1.16.
Seconds ago: Ballotonia withdrew a bid of 1.15.
Seconds ago: Vilita bid 1.16.
Seconds ago: Captain Lard bid 1.16.
Seconds ago: Vilita bid 1.16.
Seconds ago: Vilita withdrew a bid of 1.15.
Seconds ago: Kokomo Island bid 1.16.
Seconds ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 1.15.
Seconds ago: Captain Lard bid 1.43.
Seconds ago: Frisbeeteria withdrew an ask for 1.43.
Seconds ago: Vilita withdrew a bid of 1.14.
Seconds ago: Vilita withdrew a bid of 1.14.
Seconds ago: Vilita bid 1.15.
Seconds ago: Vilita withdrew a bid of 1.14.
Seconds ago: Ballotonia bid 1.15.
Seconds ago: Ballotonia withdrew a bid of 1.13.
Seconds ago: Wrapper asked for 1.42.
Seconds ago: Wrapper withdrew an ask for 1.43.
Seconds ago: Frisbeeteria withdrew a bid of 1.13.
Seconds ago: Kokomo Island bid 1.15.
Seconds ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 1.13.
Seconds ago: Ballotonia asked for 1.42.
Seconds ago: Ballotonia withdrew an ask for 1.44.
Seconds ago: Vilita bid 1.14.
Seconds ago: Vilita bid 1.14.
Seconds ago: Ballotonia asked for 1.42.
Seconds ago: Ballotonia withdrew an ask for 1.44.
Seconds ago: Vilita bid 1.14.
Seconds ago: Frisbeeteria bid 1.13.
Seconds ago: Wrapper withdrew an ask for 1.44.
Seconds ago: Wrapper asked for 1.43.
Seconds ago: Wrapper asked for 1.44.
Seconds ago: Wrapper withdrew an ask for 1.45.
Seconds ago: Wrapper asked for 1.45.
1 minute ago: Frisbeeteria asked for 1.43.
1 minute ago: Ballotonia bid 1.13.
6 minutes ago: Frisbeeteria bid 0.25.
6 minutes ago: Frisbeeteria withdrew a bid of 0.29.
7 minutes ago: Kokomo Island bid 1.46.
7 minutes ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 1.45.
9 minutes ago: Ballotonia withdrew a bid of 1.12.
10 minutes ago: Wrapper withdrew a bid of 1.11.
10 minutes ago: Wrapper bid 1.43.
11 minutes ago: Kokomo Island withdrew a bid of 1.12.

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All Wild Things
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Founded: Apr 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby All Wild Things » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:28 pm

...and it's over:

Image

Ballotonia, who starts with 3 of the cards, ends up flipping one, at a profit of 0.62, and selling one for 1.43

Seconds ago: Vilita bid 0.29.
Seconds ago: Vilita withdrew a bid of 1.19.
Seconds ago: Vilita bid 1.41.
Seconds ago: Vilita withdrew a bid of 1.19.
Seconds ago: Vilita withdrew a bid of 1.19.
Seconds ago: Ballotonia bid 1.41.
Seconds ago: Ballotonia bid 1.41.

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All Wild Things
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Founded: Apr 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby All Wild Things » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:52 pm

Selling a card

This is my thought process when looking at selling a card. Feel free to add your own.

Junk value is a floor price. It's the minimum rational price for a card. It should go without saying (but evidence shows it needs said) that there is no point selling a card for below junk value. The buyer gets it cheap, then junks it, making a profit. You might think you're being kind hearted, but the buyer just probably thinks you're an idiot.

You can try selling a card at junk price. If it sells, you get the same amount of money, and possibly a warm fuzzy feeling that you helped someone build their collection. But you have to wait for that money, and also annoy other players who hoped to sell that card.

So really, you want to ask for a bit more than junk price. But how much more?

Say the card has no trade history. Who do you suppose would buy it? Is it from a small, active region? Chances are someone will want to collect the region’s cards. A dead region? Less likely. A huge region, like the Pacific? Well, regional officers and the like will sell well, but the “commons”, probably not. Does the card fit a collectable theme, like “cute cats”? Having thought about who the buyer might be, if you were them, what would you be willing to pay to add that card to your collection? Collectable cards should get a better price than less collectable cards.

If there is a trade history, use that information. Don't assume that “Market Value (estimated)” is a reasonable price. It's not.
For Season 1 cards, trades from the original April Fools game count towards the Market Value. But what was popular last April isn't necessarily what is popular now. So look at the recent trades.

Look at who made the trades, and the prices they traded at.
Are the high prices from people who now have the cards in their collection (check the “Collections” link)? They’re unlikely to buy the same card twice. Do you think there will be others building a similar collection? (If yes, aim high, if no, reconsider).
Is it a nation buying up lots of copies of their own card? They're probably willing to pay you the same price.
Are the high prices from people who were using the card to transfer bank? (If you see the same nation and their puppet passing the card to and fro, they're using the card to transfer bank). If so, maybe you can undercut their trade when at auction (unethical, and they may well take revenge on you at a later date).
Probably better just to ignore those transfer trades, and look at the others. Excluding those, what looks like the average trading price?

At this stage, you should have a ballpark idea of what you think your price is. Now look at any existing bid and asks.

Are there only asks, no bids, and no trading history? Then probably the first sale of the card will be the only sale. You need to have the cheapest price. Does it still make sense to sell, or should you just junk the card?

Are there bids, but no asks? Is that highest bid good enough for you? If you match it, you're almost guaranteed a sale. If you ask higher, you could be waiting a while for a match. But at least you know there are buyers out there. It could be worth telegramming the highest bidder to negotiate a price - though the etiquette on telegrams can be complicated.

Are there both bids and asks? Then the card probably trades fairly frequently. You can either ask for what you think is your fair price, or you can get more Machiavellian about it. Machiavelli might add a post on the subject later, but we've seen examples already in this thread.


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