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Frisbeeteria
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Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:35 am

Odinburgh wrote:I hope this does not end up to being some version of the Pokemon game using them to war against each other.

I'm pretty sure that won't be happening. We've resisted adding a war mechanic for nearly 2 decades. It's unlikely we'll do so here.

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The Anti-Social Socialists
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Anti-Social Socialists » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:30 am

In relation to the Pokémon-style gaming, I think it could exist as something quite complementary to the current 'Challenge' system.

Instead of pitting your own stats against another nations, you may make a deck of five cards (or thereabouts) which would be pitted against another person's five-card deck. Each matchup could be won or lost based on one (or possibly more) randomly determined stats (even rarity could constitute a statistic, so that it isn't completely redundant), and upon the 'defeat' of one of a person's cards, the next one takes its place to continue the 'battle'.

For example, if I pitted a deck consisting of my own card, followed by a rare and three commons against a legendary, rare and 3 uncommons respectively (just for arguments' sake), our first cards would battle: Myself against the legendary. To illustrate the Pokemon-esque style, I'll assume that a card is defeated as soon as it suffers three head-to-head stat losses. If I lose against the legendary over five random stats (such that my card lost three and the legendary lost two), my rare would take my place and continue the battle until either it lost three times, or the legendary loses only once. At such a point, the next card will enter, and so on, so forth until one person's cards are completely depleted. They then lose the battle.
EDIT: Of course, there's always the question 'What happens when the one card goes up against itself?', to which I would argue that ties, in general, should be considered a loss suffered to both cards. That way, the only real way that a draw can ensue between two identical cards battling it out as a person's fifth card would be if both of them have suffered the same number of losses (i.e. 0) when each player is on their final (identical) card.
Last edited by The Anti-Social Socialists on Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Routcher
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Founded: Apr 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Routcher » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:42 pm

My biggest issues with the OP is limiting trades. I feel like there should not a a limit on how many cards you can buy or sell.

To make puppet abuse less viable, they should instead just make it impossible to sell a card for less than junk value.

Also, a weekly loot box seems too infrequent. Daily sounds much better.
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Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio
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Founded: Apr 14, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:52 pm

Aeiouia wrote:
Galiantus III wrote:
    The second problem is that people can switch their WA nation, which means depending on how this is organized, puppet armies could exploit it still, by switching. This cannot be done on a weekly basis, but must be done on a proposal-by-proposal basis, if it is going to have any chance of working. And loot boxes would have to be distributed at the end of voting, only.
  1. The problem here is that someone with a whole lot of time on their hands could exploit the system by creating ten puppets every day for a year, then henceforth receive ten loot boxes every day via their massive puppet army. Considering how long Macedon has held on to some regions, this is not at all a far-fetched scenario.
  2. Same problem as the above. I just create 10 nations every day, and join them to the WA for my free loot box. And (just guessing) I don't think Admin wants to add to the already complex task of dealing with WA multying.


That is a good point about the switching, I did not think of that. Perhaps adding an initial delay to a WA nation getting loot boxes would solve the problem? Assuming that said delay is longer than the periodic loot box drops afterwards would make multi-puppeting useless. It might be a bit prohibitive, though.

And either way, the effect of tacking this onto the existing system of the WA would still be an issue. I also kind of overlooked people who had no idea what was going on voting anyway, and that would certainly screw up that part of the site to some degree. Not getting a card pack for voting I think is a given here, in my opinion.

The idea of having nations sign up to a "Card Registry" or something akin to the WA that allows them to get loot boxes comes to mind. However, I can imagine that that is a bad idea since it would be a huge addition to the site and another thing that the admins would have to watch over, essentially doubling the need to look for WA duplicates. So, yeah. Not that great of an idea, but I will throw it out there anyway.

Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio wrote:Does anyone else think that NPC nation cards would be a nice addition as well?


I do not know. I really liked the charm of it essentially being a TCG, but with all people you know or at least know of. That is probably a matter of personal preference, though.

What would "NPC Cards" even be in this scenario? Real-life nations?

There are various nations mentioned in issues.
Noahs Second Country wrote:The OP of the previous thread no longer exists, so I decided to make a new one that I will update

Original Thread: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=364473

[box]Foreign Nations:

Maxtopia: Maxtopia is a nation with a long history, stretching back to the often-referenced "Ancient Maxtopians", such as King Maxbari IV. There are many Maxtopian immigrants in your nation, and they provide a lot of electricity and oil to your country. Maxtopia and North Bigtopia have recently gone to war. This country has been described as "scenic, yet corrupt and totalitarian", secular, has high tariffs, and executes people for carrying drugs, such as "Maxtopian Grass". Maxtopia also has recently undergone a civil war or two, one of which involves the religious Violetists, who make up a majority in the country. It is the home of the wood-eating spikeball and the dreaded Maxtopian hornet.

Bigtopia: There are many Bigtopian immigrants in your country, who face all manner of discrimination from your country as well as Tasmania, Lilliputia, and East Lebatuck, discrimination which they frequently protest. One prominent Bigtopian, Nicholas Condor, called for the extermination of your people. Bigtopia has cheaper labor than your country, leading to outsourcing from your country to theirs. Bigtopia had a dictatorial regime led by the mass-murdering "Butcher of Bigtopia", but this regime was overthrown by revolutionaries. Bigtopia harbors anti-government activists from your country, leading to military tensions.
North Bigtopia: North Bigtopia went to war with Maxtopia, leading to clashes between Maxtopian and Bigtopian immigrants.
Outer Bigtopia: Spies on your country with an agent named "Solo".


Marche Noir: Another country whose citizens immigrate to yours, Marche Noir is on the brink of a "terrible and violent civil war". After this civil war occurs, Marche Noir overthrows their oppressive monarchy, but elects a government opposed to your country. Despite their political instability, the Marche Noirians have a good economy, producing a lot of cars and agricultural products such as rice. They have tensions with neighboring Brasilstan.

Lilliputia: Home of the Lilliputian immigrants. They believe your country has occupied their homeland, and funds terrorist attacks against you. Lilliputia has been accused of discriminating against Bigtopians. Lilliputia is home of the Giant Lilliputian rabbit. Mr. Marple, a world-renown private investigator, is from this country.
North Lilliputia: Casinos from your country have been built here. It is unknown if this is a separate country from Lilliputia or merely a region.


Tasmania: An ethnicity known for colorful tribal attire, there are many Tasmanian immigrants from your country, probably fleeing frequent civil wars. These immigrants are often the victim of negative media stereotypes. They have been accused of discriminating against Bigtopians. Infamous terrorist and assassin Mad Max lived in this country.

East Lebatuck: The East Lebatuckese have been accused of discriminating against Bigtopians. East Lebuckte has a space program as well as a satellite in orbit named "Sputnak," which seems to suggest that East Lebuckte is becoming a representation of the Soviet Union, at least regarding the space race

Smalltopia: Homeland of Harold Weissenegger, an immigrant bodybuilder and actor in your country.

Brasilistan: A diamond producing nation known for abducting its citizens children as well as people from Marche Noir. The abduction of tourists from your country leads to an international incident which can go many different directions.

Wezeltonia: A nation which borders one of your country's remote overseas territories, a chain of islands named after your national animal. The Wezeltonians claim sovereignty over these islands even though your colonists have lived there for generations, and are willing to invade them to seize the territory.

Blackacre: A nation with chilly relations with your country, to the extent that Blackacre sent agents to assassinate you. One of their agents, Ussa Maddox, is the alleged nemesis of your country's least-reliable spy, Crazy Boris, who blames Maddox for sinking one of your navy's vessels. Blackacre had fracking operations which lead to earthquakes in their country.

Brancaland: A stable, richly-cultured nation, known for its multilingual policies
It is rich in culture and multilingual, @@NAME@@'s citizens apparently like to retire there, and it's ambassadors like to get drunk.
It's also a popular tourist destination among your citizens.
Brancaland is apparently very cold, as its ambassador was seen wearing the "traditional Brancalandian parka" - 650
It is one of the few NPC nations @@NAME@@ has a good relationship with - 650
It has a province called Quaybeck, which is in the middle of a violent separatist movement, instigated by @@NAME@@ extremists - 650

Manamana: a tax haven with shady offshore accounts, exports tequila.

Dàguó: Known for having a one child policy.

United Federation: Known for excessive campaigning and skyscrapers

❤Pro: Immigration, gun control, demilitarization, internationalism, socialism, direct democracy, disestablishmentarianism, feminism, open boarders, unity, peace, pacifism, vegetarianism, and lbgt+
Anti: Unfair wages/capitalism, war, military, violence, hate, ignorance, weapons, racism, imperialism, patriotism, nationalism, fascism, nativism, violent protest, ANTIFA, USA, and sexism
Collectivism score: 100
Authoritarianism score: 50
Internationalism score: 33
Tribalism score: -100
Liberalism score: 83
I apologize for all the hate and violence that has been caused and will be caused by humanity.
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Kune ni sukcesos egale
Together we prosper equally

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Nationstates the Gathering
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Founded: Mar 31, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nationstates the Gathering » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:40 pm

Routcher wrote:My biggest issues with the OP is limiting trades. I feel like there should not a a limit on how many cards you can buy or sell.

To make puppet abuse less viable, they should instead just make it impossible to sell a card for less than junk value.

Also, a weekly loot box seems too infrequent. Daily sounds much better.


The problem I have with this is I think all of these statements would have the opposite effect that I believe you want them to have, though happy to see the counterarguments.

My points are as follows:

Routcher wrote:To make puppet abuse less viable, they should instead just make it impossible to sell a card for less than junk value.


Puppet abuse has absolutely nothing to do with selling a card for less than junk value. In fact in the April Fools system; once a puppet master has established any sort of bank it would be strictly easier / more efficient for them to trade cards amongst puppets at exactly face value - then once the movement is done make a final overpriced transaction to move the sum of the bank used in the transactions back to the main account. If anything price wise would effect puppet account it would be an upper sales limit as it would require a puppet master to make more transactions to move all the money around.

That said, I suspect that a trade mechanism or card gifting mechanism would be part of a new release which would make either above point moot - but would stress the importance of transaction limits between accounts hence the mention of this in the proposal.

The primary factor that makes puppetry successful in the card game is the number of loot boxes they have available to them and the fact that there is no restriction on card movement. Secondary to that was the inadvertently flawed mechanic where loot boxes were timed based and the unanticipated side effect of the 4th card regional bias in infantry filled regions.

That is why in any new release of the game
Also, a weekly loot box seems too infrequent. Daily sounds much better.

From experience, I also believe this is 100% counter to the intended outcome.

The more free time-based loot boxes available to every nation, the more puppet masters will dominate the game. The more these free time-based decks that every single nation earns strictly by existing are spread apart in time, the less effective or rewarding puppetry becomes as the puppet masters will be less able to dominate the market in a short period of time (IE: Before any normal player even has a chance to build a deck). Couple that with other achievement based loot box acquisitions and the playing field becomes even more level.

I know that moving to a weekly loot box pull so soon after getting a loot box every 10 minutes would seem like a drastic change but really its not when you consider the april fools version of the game was a defined length of one week while what we are talking about now is a permanent addition to the game. If every nation in the game got one free deck every day and nothing else they would get 265 free decks between now and the end of the year - double what the average nation got during the week-long game and puppets would be getting the bulk of the reward from such a system.

If you dial it back, and make the free timed decks further apart, but intersperse other types of deck pulls in between - whether they are achievement based, WA based or other, you start to address the core of the puppetry effect which is nothing more than puppet teams get more loot boxes to open so the faster they get to access those, the faster they distance themselves from everyone else.


Now, if we don't want an achievement based loot boxes you could still address puppetry using time-based loot box pulls by setting different criteria. One example might look like this:
    Just an example...
  • Sunday: All Nations get a Loot Box
  • Tuesday: All Nations Supporter Level or Higher get a Loot Box
  • Thursday: All WA Nations get a Loot Box
  • Saturday: Selective Loot Box day - "All nations >2 billion pop" or perhaps A randomly selected criteria that changes on a weekly basis to reward different nations with a bonus loot box-
Anything that changes the system from a strictly "Every X hours everyone gets another loot box" system makes it a less attractive system for puppet armies. But specifically, anything that includes WA members or supporter/postmaster level members would very quickly weed out puppet armies from the list of beneficiaries - particularly the hastily created "infantry #73" type.


Addressing the Regional Bias

Of course another critical assumption is that the regional bias is addressed as that was also a big factor - not in puppet armies getting more cards - but in them getting more Valuable cards.

However, equally, I think having a regional bias is important for interest level in the cards, as folks are likely going to be more interested getting cards of nations they know rather then a full complement from balder and osiris.

I think this can be addressed with two simple fixes:

1) Dial the maximum likelihood of getting an in-region card in the 4th slot from 100% down to 50%
2) Apply a penalty % to that likelihood for each day <X that a nation has been a member of their region

In this case a nation that joins a region today has effectively no better chance of drawing a card from that region than they do from any other region. However, after spending two months in the region, they might reach the maximum likelihood level of getting a card from that region. This would greatly reduce the effectivity of puppet armies abusing region bias as they would have to commit their army to a region for months to achieve their goal - in that time they may either grow fond of the region and stay there adding to the gameplay, be ejected by the founder or delegate, or other - but what they won't be doing is collecting their target card within a few hours and moving en masse to a new region to collect a different card as occurred during the april fools game.
Last edited by Nationstates the Gathering on Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:50 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Frisbeeteria
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Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:00 pm

Nationstates the Gathering wrote:Addressing the Regional Bias

Best suggestion I've seen so far has been tying it to regional influence. More influence = higher chance of getting a region card. It would be up to the Regional Officers to kick/ban sleeper card puppets.

Nationstates the Gathering wrote:Dial the maximum likelihood of getting an in-region card in the 4th slot from 100% down to 50%

It's only 100% in regions with lots of nations. I had a puppet in a 3 nation region that never drew a regional card.

Nationstates the Gathering wrote:The more free time-based loot boxes available to every nation, the more puppet masters will dominate the game.

There's the Game, and there's the Leaderboard. The two are not synonymous. Lots of people enjoyed the Game despite never coming anywhere near the Leaderboard. Don't make the mistake of conflating the two.

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Nationstates the Gathering
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Founded: Mar 31, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nationstates the Gathering » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:26 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Nationstates the Gathering wrote:Addressing the Regional Bias

Best suggestion I've seen so far has been tying it to regional influence. More influence = higher chance of getting a region card. It would be up to the Regional Officers to kick/ban sleeper card puppets.


That would be another fine way to do it acknowledging that it in many regions it could put a heavy bias on WA nations who have much larger influence than non-WA nations in the same region depending if there is a ceiling or not. Not saying thats a bad or good thing, its just a thing. Nations can be active and contributing to a region for long periods of time (years) without accruing much influence as they may not do influence generating things and there can be a massive gap between the top influence nation in a region and even the second or third highest, so thought would have to be put into the best way to apply an influence based formula (Ie: Does anyone with >100 influence get 100% of the formula? Or is it based on relative within-region influence level? Something else?

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Nationstates the Gathering wrote:Dial the maximum likelihood of getting an in-region card in the 4th slot from 100% down to 50%

It's only 100% in regions with lots of nations. I had a puppet in a 3 nation region that never drew a regional card.


Right, thats why i said "Maximum" likelihood. In smaller regions the likelihood would still be proportionally less. In larger regions; Instead of making it a 'sure thing' - make it at best a 50/50 venture - just dial back the formula. Couple that with the change of either a length of residency or regional influence based factor and infantry swarming a region for specific cards would be all but extinct (or at the very least, require a lot more dedication)

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Nationstates the Gathering wrote:The more free time-based loot boxes available to every nation, the more puppet masters will dominate the game.

There's the Game, and there's the Leaderboard. The two are not synonymous. Lots of people enjoyed the Game despite never coming anywhere near the Leaderboard. Don't make the mistake of conflating the two.


Absolutely agreed. But the game and the factors that went into the leaderboard are not separate things. The stats that went into the leaderboards were defined by the events that occurred during the game particularly pricing. Equating puppet masters to rich where the rich get richer means that a common player - particularly after dialing back regional bias - may be even less likely to be able to complete a certain set they are trying to play for because the high end players can drive up the price. That's why I believe there are ways which should be considered to allow legitimate active players to get multiple loot boxes per week without making it such that puppet armies get the same number of boxes for each and every numeralized member of the group.

I think the optimal state of NS Cards is that they aren't even looked at as a "game" and everyone has a chance to enjoy them so the more 'casual' they are, the better i think they will age in the long run.



edit: Quotes were wrong
Last edited by Nationstates the Gathering on Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:33 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Drawkland
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Drawkland » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:28 pm

Nationstates the Gathering wrote:Now, if we don't want an achievement based loot boxes you could still address puppetry using time-based loot box pulls by setting different criteria. One example might look like this:
    Just an example...
  • Sunday: All Nations get a Loot Box
  • Tuesday: All Nations Supporter Level or Higher get a Loot Box
  • Thursday: All WA Nations get a Loot Box
  • Saturday: Selective Loot Box day - "All nations >2 billion pop" or perhaps A randomly selected criteria that changes on a weekly basis to reward different nations with a bonus loot box-
Anything that changes the system from a strictly "Every X hours everyone gets another loot box" system makes it a less attractive system for puppet armies. But specifically, anything that includes WA members or supporter/postmaster level members would very quickly weed out puppet armies from the list of beneficiaries - particularly the hastily created "infantry #73" type.

I am a big fan about this suggestion. It encourages nations to be more active on the site, etc. etc. The only issue I could see with this is the Supporter-based one. While that definitely weeds out all but the most dedicated puppetmasters, it kinda goes against the spirit of "no real life money spent!" that Max reiterated several times in the original announcement and "How to Play" tab. While it's not overtly so, it could be viewed as paying actual money to get yourself more packs - which is the opposite of what they were intending with this.

As far as the regional bias - from my experience it's not that bad of a mechanic. Sure, when you're in a huge region, you have a 100% chance of pulling one from that region, but chances are it's a random common or uncommon nation. From 3 puppets in 3 big regions, I probably pulled over 100 packs with each of them, and I only ended up with 2-3 cards above epic. I am definitely in favor of an influence or residency-based mechanic (or perhaps a hybrid), but I don't think the default chance needs any tweaking. Especially if you're only potentially getting a pack per week.

I'm also in agreement of what Frisbee said about regional control. If people in a region don't like card puppets "invading" their region just for cards, then the Founder/Delegate/ROs can simply eject/ban those nations no problem. If they don't care about people farming the region for certain cards (especially the nations who're being farmed for) then I don't see why anybody else should.
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Scandavian States
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Postby Scandavian States » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:03 am

1) I'd honestly like for card rarity to be tied to stat achievements. There didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for certain nations having certain rarities.
2) Slow the packs down to 1/week.
3) Give some type of level guarantee. You could go to 15 cards per pack with the following slots: 1x Legendary/Epic, 2x Ultra Rare/Rare, 5x Uncommon, and 7x Common.
4) Have some sort of control on repeats. If you've pulled a given card before, it doesn't drop again until you've pulled every other card in the given rarity level.
5) Have a deck with some sort of limit on cards and a collection space for cards not in the deck.
6) Have some sort of trading system not tied to currency.

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Bela1975
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Postby Bela1975 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:21 am

If there's anyone that makes decisions reading this thread, should be enough ideas in here to help making the cards permanent fixture something cool.

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Nuclear Wastelands
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Postby Nuclear Wastelands » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:23 am

Good to hear it will be permanent.
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Drawkland
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Drawkland » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:06 am

Scandavian States wrote:1) I'd honestly like for card rarity to be tied to stat achievements. There didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for certain nations having certain rarities.

3) Give some type of level guarantee. You could go to 15 cards per pack with the following slots: 1x Legendary/Epic, 2x Ultra Rare/Rare, 5x Uncommon, and 7x Common.

4) Have some sort of control on repeats. If you've pulled a given card before, it doesn't drop again until you've pulled every other card in the given rarity level.

5) Have a deck with some sort of limit on cards and a collection space for cards not in the deck.

Some of those suggestions are decent and have been explained earlier, but I have a few problems with the above.

1) Card rarity already is tied to that. Legendary cards and epic cards are always site supporters, founders, delegates, site staff, or those with many Top 1% stat trophies. The more active and the more high stat trophies a nation has, the higher rarity their card is. This is a pretty established fact as far as I've seen, so this point is moot.

3) Having guaranteed pulls like that, even at one week intervals, would completely ruin the finds of cards. People already complain about Legendaries being "too easy to find" for their supposed rarity, so getting a free one every pack or every other pack would make pretty much every cards' value plummet within a couple weeks. That kinda ruins the game at all since you're able to get any card easily.

4) Most repeat cards are caused because you share a region with said card. The 4th card slot has a chance of being from your region, and so if you open a certain amount of packs you'll eventually run into a repeat. Now I might be incorrect here, but from my personal experience, I never ran into any repeat cards outside of the 4th slot regional card. So this is kinda a non-issue.

5) This idea is interesting, but I don't understand the purpose. Why should there be a separate distinction between a deck and a collection? Why would they be different? I just don't get the point for that.
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Nationstates the Gathering
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Postby Nationstates the Gathering » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:05 am

Drawkland wrote:5) This idea is interesting, but I don't understand the purpose. Why should there be a separate distinction between a deck and a collection? Why would they be different? I just don't get the point for that.


In some proposals about "what to do" with the cards, there have been ideas such as incorporating them into other mini games such as the NS Challenge Game. In this, your 'deck' would be the cards which you can use stats from in the game while your collection would be the cards you have available in order to build a deck out of.

I'm not sure in this example if that is the intended difference between the deck and the collection, however.

Alternatively, as part of organization, you could make different 'decks' such as a 'for sale' deck which would be a page someone could see all the cards you have for sale, a 'region deck' for cards you have collected in your region, a 'friends deck' or something for nations you socialize with etc - these don't have to be done in deck form but this is another way i could see something like that evolving

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Frisbeeteria
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:06 am

Bela1975 wrote:If there's anyone that makes decisions reading this thread, should be enough ideas in here to help making the cards permanent fixture something cool.

I'm taking some (not all) of the ideas presented here and running it past the decision makers. There are some really good ideas in this and related threads. There are also some really bad and/or impractical ideas. I think most people will be happy with the outcome ... but I have no idea when that will happen. It'll be announced somewhere, probably the News or the Technical forum.

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Die Erworbenen Namen
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Postby Die Erworbenen Namen » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:56 am

I was mentioned and not in a negative light? Oh my I have been good recently.

Nationstates the Gathering wrote:Alternatively, as part of organization, you could make different 'decks' such as a 'for sale' deck which would be a page someone could see all the cards you have for sale, a 'region deck' for cards you have collected in your region, a 'friends deck' or something for nations you socialize with etc - these don't have to be done in deck form but this is another way i could see something like that evolving


Yeah this was basically my idea and suggestion. I wanted to organize my cards so I could better view them, and see how many cards I would need to get to have, say, all of my region. Setting up a deck for my region would be a cool thing, and would help me track my collection.
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Scandavian States
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Postby Scandavian States » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:14 pm

Drawkland wrote:1) Card rarity already is tied to that. Legendary cards and epic cards are always site supporters, founders, delegates, site staff, or those with many Top 1% stat trophies. The more active and the more high stat trophies a nation has, the higher rarity their card is. This is a pretty established fact as far as I've seen, so this point is moot.


I'm a site supporter, I have two Easter eggs found, have four stats in the Top 1% (including two in the top 1k), 16 stats in the top 5%, and 8 in the top 10% and my card is a rare. Actually, looking through my deck of 10bn+/Rare+ cards, there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it.

3) Having guaranteed pulls like that, even at one week intervals, would completely ruin the finds of cards. People already complain about Legendaries being "too easy to find" for their supposed rarity, so getting a free one every pack or every other pack would make pretty much every cards' value plummet within a couple weeks. That kinda ruins the game at all since you're able to get any card easily.


If you're just going to keep every Legendary you find, that could in fact be a problem.

5) This idea is interesting, but I don't understand the purpose. Why should there be a separate distinction between a deck and a collection? Why would they be different? I just don't get the point for that.


The purpose is that it limits the maximum value of the deck. If you want to increase the value of the deck, you have to sell or trade the cards. That creates market competition and puts a soft cap on puppet abuse.

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Nationstates the Gathering
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Founded: Mar 31, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nationstates the Gathering » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:44 pm

Scandavian States wrote:
Drawkland wrote:1) Card rarity already is tied to that. Legendary cards and epic cards are always site supporters, founders, delegates, site staff, or those with many Top 1% stat trophies. The more active and the more high stat trophies a nation has, the higher rarity their card is. This is a pretty established fact as far as I've seen, so this point is moot.


I'm a site supporter, I have two Easter eggs found, have four stats in the Top 1% (including two in the top 1k), 16 stats in the top 5%, and 8 in the top 10% and my card is a rare. Actually, looking through my deck of 10bn+/Rare+ cards, there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it.


I suspect Influence was a factor here.

You have an extremely low absolute (58) and relative (hatchling) Influence rating. Now I didn't do an analysis of nations at the rare, ultra rare or epic levels because there are so many of them, but at the Legendary level I only found a handful of nations with Legendary cards that were not WA Members/Delegates, Moderators, Administrators or Editors of some sort, recognized otherwise by the WA or having completed Easter Eggs. Every single one of those type nations had Superpower or higher level of influence with absolute levels in the upper thousands/10,000

Maybe there is other data here, but I suspect that may have been a factor as to why you were a rare instead of something higher. A similar nation with no other accolades but a moderate level of influence only would have been bumped up to Ultra Rare so its not like you were one component away from Legendary I would suspect :)

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Die Erworbenen Namen
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Die Erworbenen Namen » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:16 pm

Nationstates the Gathering wrote:
Scandavian States wrote:
I'm a site supporter, I have two Easter eggs found, have four stats in the Top 1% (including two in the top 1k), 16 stats in the top 5%, and 8 in the top 10% and my card is a rare. Actually, looking through my deck of 10bn+/Rare+ cards, there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it.


I suspect Influence was a factor here.

You have an extremely low absolute (58) and relative (hatchling) Influence rating. Now I didn't do an analysis of nations at the rare, ultra rare or epic levels because there are so many of them, but at the Legendary level I only found a handful of nations with Legendary cards that were not WA Members/Delegates, Moderators, Administrators or Editors of some sort, recognized otherwise by the WA or having completed Easter Eggs. Every single one of those type nations had Superpower or higher level of influence with absolute levels in the upper thousands/10,000

Maybe there is other data here, but I suspect that may have been a factor as to why you were a rare instead of something higher. A similar nation with no other accolades but a moderate level of influence only would have been bumped up to Ultra Rare so its not like you were one component away from Legendary I would suspect :)


Actually, I have a counter theory. I propose that card rarity has to do with the amount of posts you've made on the forums.
The beatings will continue. Regardless of morale.

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:Also, nominating DEN as ATLAS's Chef Ramses.
The United Remnants of America wrote:I'm collecting friends. Hate to say it, but you qualify.

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Frisbeeteria
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Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:43 pm

Die Erworbenen Namen wrote:I propose that card rarity has to do with the amount of posts you've made on the forums.

The forum profile of Legendary ex-nation "Soops" and the posting history of the most sought after Legendary Testlandia would disagree with you.

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Die Erworbenen Namen
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Founded: Feb 12, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Die Erworbenen Namen » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:08 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Die Erworbenen Namen wrote:I propose that card rarity has to do with the amount of posts you've made on the forums.

The forum profile of Legendary ex-nation "Soops" and the posting history of the most sought after Legendary Testlandia would disagree with you.

Uhhh... you uh... you used your mod powers? I got nothing.
The beatings will continue. Regardless of morale.

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:Also, nominating DEN as ATLAS's Chef Ramses.
The United Remnants of America wrote:I'm collecting friends. Hate to say it, but you qualify.

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Frisbeeteria
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Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:48 pm

Die Erworbenen Namen wrote:Uhhh... you uh... you used your mod powers?

I used public decks and trades; and publicly available links. No special powers needed.

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No Worries
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Founded: Mar 25, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby No Worries » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:24 pm

I am not an expert, not even sure if this will make any sense, but players who create puppet nations for card-collection purpose will have same e-mail and/or have same IP address. The rule would be to prevent trading between same e-mail/IP players. Ofc, this would not eliminate puppet master trading, but it could make it cumbersome.
Last edited by No Worries on Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bela1975
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Founded: Mar 09, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bela1975 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:18 am

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Bela1975 wrote:If there's anyone that makes decisions reading this thread, should be enough ideas in here to help making the cards permanent fixture something cool.

I'm taking some (not all) of the ideas presented here and running it past the decision makers. There are some really good ideas in this and related threads. There are also some really bad and/or impractical ideas. I think most people will be happy with the outcome ... but I have no idea when that will happen. It'll be announced somewhere, probably the News or the Technical forum.

Fair enough to me. Can't wait to go back getting some more cards.

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Divitalia
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Founded: Nov 09, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Divitalia » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:27 pm

No Worries wrote:I am not an expert, not even sure if this will make any sense, but players who create puppet nations for card-collection purpose will have same e-mail and/or have same IP address. The rule would be to prevent trading between same e-mail/IP players. Ofc, this would not eliminate puppet master trading, but it could make it cumbersome.


There’s no real benefit to having any of these cards anyway other than fun. Why are we stopping puppet trading?

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Nationstates the Gathering
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Founded: Mar 31, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nationstates the Gathering » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:18 pm

Divitalia wrote:
No Worries wrote:I am not an expert, not even sure if this will make any sense, but players who create puppet nations for card-collection purpose will have same e-mail and/or have same IP address. The rule would be to prevent trading between same e-mail/IP players. Ofc, this would not eliminate puppet master trading, but it could make it cumbersome.


There’s no real benefit to having any of these cards anyway other than fun. Why are we stopping puppet trading?


Yea, I don't believe puppet *trading* needs to be stopped - in fact it would probably just be made easier with a true trading function to go along with the card sales.


What it would be nice to have addressed is the puppet hordes having an advantage in collecting specific cards by getting decks at a faster rate and with a higher likelihood of pulling a specific rare card by exploiting the formula that wasn't intended to allow that specific activity - all the while upending a region by bloating its membership and then high tailing it on to another location like a migrating swarm. And I think there are many proposals at ways to get towards that collectively without preventing folks from enjoying the game harmlessly.

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