Seems fair

[Sincluda]

Instead of complaining here, go report people you suspect of hacking. Surely if you're confident you're willing to do that?

I never said that anybody was hacking though?

What I said was when hackers in video games (especially fighting games) use hacks to win the game and when called out out they say they are good at the game and everyone else just needs to get good. And what Nreyvw said was an exact repetition of that statement but in different words. Using puppets doesn’t make you good.

Then... what makes you good? Puppet management is the key to everything in NS.

[Lord Dominator]

Instead of complaining here, go report people you suspect of hacking. Surely if you're confident you're willing to do that?

I never said that anybody was hacking though?

What I said was when hackers in video games (especially fighting games) use hacks to win the game and when called out out they say they are good at the game and everyone else just needs to get good. And what Nreyvw said was an exact repetition of that statement but in different words. Using puppets doesn’t make you good.

What does then?

[Deadmask]

Using puppets doesn’t make you good.

Puppet management is a skill, it takes very little skill to sit in a superfaction and nuke though.

[Lord Dominator]

Using puppets doesn’t make you good.

Puppet management is a skill, it takes very little skill to sit in a superfaction and nuke though.

It does take skill to organize a megafaction however, and skill to keep it running in some organized direction.

[Nrevyw]

Instead of complaining here, go report people you suspect of hacking. Surely if you're confident you're willing to do that?

I never said that anybody was hacking though?

What I said was when hackers in video games (especially fighting games) use hacks to win the game and when called out out they say they are good at the game and everyone else just needs to get good. And what Nreyvw said was an exact repetition of that statement but in different words. Using puppets doesn’t make you good.

You're literally comparing the use of hacks to using puppets. Also, using puppets obviously does make someone good if its the main thing that you're complaining about making N-day unfair.

[NCE 03]

Instead of complaining here, go report people you suspect of hacking. Surely if you're confident you're willing to do that?

I never said that anybody was hacking though?

What I said was when hackers in video games (especially fighting games) use hacks to win the game and when called out out they say they are good at the game and everyone else just needs to get good. And what Nreyvw said was an exact repetition of that statement but in different words. Using puppets doesn’t make you good.

"I'm not bad, I'm just 500x less effective than the other guy, even though the same tools and skills are available to us both."

[Deadmask]

It does take skill to organize a megafaction however, and skill to keep it running in some organized direction.

A faction of that size has almost no chance of losing if even half of it's members do what they are supposed to. Rogues are a part of almost any decently sized faction and pretty easy to deal with.
As for skill in organizing a megafaction, literally all they did was merge factions.

[Lord Dominator]

It does take skill to organize a megafaction however, and skill to keep it running in some organized direction.

A faction of that size has almost no chance of losing if even half of it's members do what they are supposed to. Rogues are a part of almost any decently sized faction and pretty easy to deal with.
As for skill in organizing a megafaction, literally all they did was merge factions.

There’s a bit more that goes into those decisions than that. The organization on these starts at least a month prior, sometimes more

[Deadmask]

There’s a bit more that goes into those decisions than that. The organization on these starts at least a month prior, sometimes more

That's... common sense? It's diplomacy, just like anything else on this site. Nothing specific to N-Day.

[Lord Dominator]

There’s a bit more that goes into those decisions than that. The organization on these starts at least a month prior, sometimes more

That's... common sense? It's diplomacy, just like anything else on this site. Nothing specific to N-Day.

And I’m saying there’s still skill in organization involved

[Deutsche Royalisten]

You essentially just repeated yourself, also see the second half of my comment that you didn't quote.

I quoted the entirety of your comment - I repeated myself because you continue only to offer that maybe we’d cheat, despite the compelling reasons I’ve indicated for us not to cheat.

So to start, you have provided a singular "reason," not multiple, and I would say in all subjectivity that it isn't compelling whatsoever. Unless you're referring to you simply saying "It's just scripts guys that we made for a once a year event," and then saying "We would never take our already made scripts, and automate them using generic accounts because that would be a waste of time for a once a year event!" In which case, you've made two oh so compelling reasons. However, once again, my counter, was never answered nor was the second half of it. And, to me, that just comes off as you accepting it .

Also, I can make comparisons to other games because, I was just pointing out the idiocy of the mindset of "Scripts = Skill" when applied to other scenarios? That point isn't muddled by the fact they're not the same game. And to your retort that my picture of the 50+ accounts being used as puppets. The only time I've ever seen someone name a bunch of accounts with randomly selected characters, and while they're barely being thematic, it's typically when he's going to use them to cheat. And it's a pretty common trope in video-games (to avoid connecting them to your main-account in any way), but you'd know that, if you played any other games that is.
Also to the guy who said we should report it and not complain, who says those can are mutually exclusive, lol.

[Sincluda]

I quoted the entirety of your comment - I repeated myself because you continue only to offer that maybe we’d cheat, despite the compelling reasons I’ve indicated for us not to cheat.

So to start, you have provided a singular "reason," not multiple, and I would say in all subjectivity that it isn't compelling whatsoever. Unless you're referring to you simply saying "It's just scripts guys that we made for a once a year event," and then saying "We would never take our already made scripts, and automate them using generic accounts because that would be a waste of time for a once a year event!" In which case, you've made two oh so compelling reasons. However, once again, my counter, was never answered nor was the second half of it. And, to me, that just comes off as you accepting it .

Also, I can make comparisons to other games because, I was just pointing out the idiocy of the mindset of "Scripts = Skill" when applied to other scenarios? That point isn't muddled by the fact they're not the same game. And to your retort that my picture of the 50+ accounts being used as puppets. The only time I've ever seen someone name a bunch of accounts with randomly selected characters, and while they're barely being thematic, it's typically when he's going to use them to cheat. And it's a pretty common trope in video-games (to avoid connecting them to your main-account in any way), but you'd know that, if you played any other games that is.
Also to the guy who said we should report it and not complain, who says those can are mutually exclusive, lol.

Never said that the scripts were made for this one day. The opposite, in fact.
What was the second half of your counter? Your post was quoted and responded to in full.
Yep. Cheat by naming things with completely random characters... how does that work?

[Kingdom of the Indus]

*eats popcorn*

Share some popcorn, please.

I want some popcorn too!

[Net Loss of 21]

There’s a bit more that goes into those decisions than that. The organization on these starts at least a month prior, sometimes more

That's... common sense? It's diplomacy, just like anything else on this site. Nothing specific to N-Day.

'Saltmine' : pensive :

And it takes skill to stand at the top of a huge region with many WA nations so that you can pull it into a huge alliance. If its that easy maybe you should run for del of TNP next year

[Deadmask]

'Saltmine' : pensive :

And it takes skill to stand at the top of a huge region with many WA nations so that you can pull it into a huge alliance. If its that easy maybe you should run for del of TNP next year

This game is literally about diplomacy. It's not just skill at that point, it's time and dedication. Not particularly easy for every person to dedicate that much of their time to NS.
I have no problem with huge factions winning, they do every year. Normally though it takes a while for the big factions to take eachother out, giving the smaller factions their time to have some fun. All the small factions were basically wiped out within the first 4 hours this time.
Context is very important to the meaning of a word.
And why TNP? Of all places?

[Volgastaat]

So what's the point of being involved with the event if you don't want to be the major faction?

[Filipinn]

I never said that anybody was hacking though?

What I said was when hackers in video games (especially fighting games) use hacks to win the game and when called out out they say they are good at the game and everyone else just needs to get good. And what Nreyvw said was an exact repetition of that statement but in different words. Using puppets doesn’t make you good.

"I'm not bad, I'm just 500x less effective than the other guy, even though the same tools and skills are available to us both."

lad, you just defined what bad means.

[The Cordian Isles]

"I'm not bad, I'm just 500x less effective than the other guy, even though the same tools and skills are available to us both."

lad, you just defined what bad means.

Exactly.

[Gracius Maximus]

? Because some don't care to decorate their puppets and want to make them as fast as possible ?

They are definitely bots. They are responding with multiple accounts with a less than 1 minute response time, so unless they're sitting at their keyboard coordinating over 1,000 accounts at once, then I see no way they couldn't be bots.

At that point, you're beyond a single person running puppet nations. You're either using bots, or you've hired out an entire firm in India to run your puppet nations.

I don't know if you need to have a bot to accomplish this. Even if say 1000 (or 5000 or 10000) of the nations in CotA are puppets that still lives several hundred players that can click the "Incoming" link at any moment in time and intercept nukes. I've done it several dozen times myself and I am notoriously inactive.

And all my puppets have the default flag because I can't be bothered to change it since I know they will all cte again in a few weeks anyway.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

This thread:

1. Online game based entirely on diplomacy and browser clicks creates mini-game with definable factions specifically to call attention to the International Day for the Total Elimination of Nuclear Weapons.

2. Players coalesce into just a couple of major factions based on the likelihood of getting nuked into oblivion. These factions are based primarily on players' past work and skill in point-and-click puppet use.

3. Instead of noting obvious parallels with Cold War and how smaller powers essentially had to join one of the two major factions if they wanted to be safe from invasion, smaller powers complain about a couple of major factions dominating the game.

4. Players ignore history of smaller nations asking NATO, Warsaw Pact, China, India, and Pakistan to give up nuclear weapons, and draw no lessons from these similar situations.

5. Humans continue to learn nothing.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

[North Cromch]

This thread:

1. Online game based entirely on diplomacy and browser clicks creates mini-game with definable factions specifically to call attention to the International Day for the Total Elimination of Nuclear Weapons.

2. Players coalesce into just a couple of major factions based on the likelihood of getting nuked into oblivion. These factions are based primarily on players' past work and skill in point-and-click puppet use.

3. Instead of noting obvious parallels with Cold War and how smaller powers essentially had to join one of the two major factions if they wanted to be safe from invasion, smaller powers complain about a couple of major factions dominating the game.

4. Players ignore history of smaller nations asking NATO, Warsaw Pact, China, India, and Pakistan to give up nuclear weapons, and draw no lessons from these similar situations.

5. Humans continue to learn nothing.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

Problem is, the facts that there was pretty much only two major factions this time round and the presence of several CotA factions is preetty alarming.

[Borogravia Moldavi]

This thread:

1. Online game based entirely on diplomacy and browser clicks creates mini-game with definable factions specifically to call attention to the International Day for the Total Elimination of Nuclear Weapons.

2. Players coalesce into just a couple of major factions based on the likelihood of getting nuked into oblivion. These factions are based primarily on players' past work and skill in point-and-click puppet use.

3. Instead of noting obvious parallels with Cold War and how smaller powers essentially had to join one of the two major factions if they wanted to be safe from invasion, smaller powers complain about a couple of major factions dominating the game.

4. Players ignore history of smaller nations asking NATO, Warsaw Pact, China, India, and Pakistan to give up nuclear weapons, and draw no lessons from these similar situations.

5. Humans continue to learn nothing.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

It seems a bit of a stretch to think of NS as a microcosm of humanity as a whole. Yes, the parallels are there to be made, but also, it is just a game and it is heavily biased towards a Euro-centric (even if Max is Australian) or Anglophone worldview.

[Side 3]

This thread:

1. Online game based entirely on diplomacy and browser clicks creates mini-game with definable factions specifically to call attention to the International Day for the Total Elimination of Nuclear Weapons.

2. Players coalesce into just a couple of major factions based on the likelihood of getting nuked into oblivion. These factions are based primarily on players' past work and skill in point-and-click puppet use.

3. Instead of noting obvious parallels with Cold War and how smaller powers essentially had to join one of the two major factions if they wanted to be safe from invasion, smaller powers complain about a couple of major factions dominating the game.

4. Players ignore history of smaller nations asking NATO, Warsaw Pact, China, India, and Pakistan to give up nuclear weapons, and draw no lessons from these similar situations.

5. Humans continue to learn nothing.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

It's a game, Socrates. We're here to have fun. If we're not having fun, then it's poor game design.

[Brototh]

This thread:

1. Online game based entirely on diplomacy and browser clicks creates mini-game with definable factions specifically to call attention to the International Day for the Total Elimination of Nuclear Weapons.
2. Players coalesce into just a couple of major factions based on the likelihood of getting nuked into oblivion. These factions are based primarily on players' past work and skill in point-and-click puppet use.
3. Instead of noting obvious parallels with Cold War and how smaller powers essentially had to join one of the two major factions if they wanted to be safe from invasion, smaller powers complain about a couple of major factions dominating the game.
4. Players ignore history of smaller nations asking NATO, Warsaw Pact, China, India, and Pakistan to give up nuclear weapons, and draw no lessons from these similar situations.
5. Humans continue to learn nothing.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

There's a very big difference between players not learning history, and players not having fun in a game. When there are two big megafactions- sure it brings parrallel to NATO and the Warsaw Pact in the Cold War, but at the end of the day, it is a game.

If the players aren't having fun in the game, they aren't going to focus on the history either way, they will just complain that the event was poor. If we want players to learn history- which I agree, is important- the event surrounding it has to be fun as well. If we aren't having fun, we won't get anywhere.

[Sincluda]

This thread:

1. Online game based entirely on diplomacy and browser clicks creates mini-game with definable factions specifically to call attention to the International Day for the Total Elimination of Nuclear Weapons.
2. Players coalesce into just a couple of major factions based on the likelihood of getting nuked into oblivion. These factions are based primarily on players' past work and skill in point-and-click puppet use.
3. Instead of noting obvious parallels with Cold War and how smaller powers essentially had to join one of the two major factions if they wanted to be safe from invasion, smaller powers complain about a couple of major factions dominating the game.
4. Players ignore history of smaller nations asking NATO, Warsaw Pact, China, India, and Pakistan to give up nuclear weapons, and draw no lessons from these similar situations.
5. Humans continue to learn nothing.

There's a very big difference between players not learning history, and players not having fun in a game. When there are two big megafactions- sure it brings parrallel to NATO and the Warsaw Pact in the Cold War, but at the end of the day, it is a game.

If the players aren't having fun in the game, they aren't going to focus on the history either way, they will just complain that the event was poor. If we want players to learn history- which I agree, is important- the event surrounding it has to be fun as well. If we aren't having fun, we won't get anywhere.

Which serves as a reminder that this is a one-day event.