Romextlian-Italian conflict on the Italian Question IC

[Polish Prussian Commonwealth]

"We are not asking about your grandparents, although I'm sure they made what they thought was the best choice." Hillshire attempted to soothe the man. "We are asking whether or not Italy and Italians should have the right to decide it's own fate."

“Under the Insaani constitution, no region can leave. Do you also oppose the US intervention in the American Civil War? Do you suggest they simply should have let the Southerners have their own state?”

A vein on Hillshire's forehead visibly bulged, but he remained calm and continued to smile. Giuseppe flushed crimson, and opened his mouth to respond, but Hillshire waved him down and responded himself. "I hope you are not insinuating that allowing Italians to choose whether to remain with Insaanistan is equivalent to slavery." He began. "But let's play that game. Do you suggest that Ireland has no right to exist? Do you suggest that the Baltic states should not have revolted against Communist rule? Do you suggest that America should have remained a British colony? Secession, sir, is a tool. Let us judge the motivations of those who use that tool instead of the tool itself."

[Insaanistan]

“Under the Insaani constitution, no region can leave. Do you also oppose the US intervention in the American Civil War? Do you suggest they simply should have let the Southerners have their own state?”

A vein on Hillshire's forehead visibly bulged, but he remained calm and continued to smile. "I hope you are not insinuating that allowing Italians to choose whether to remain with Insaanistan is equivalent to slavery. But let's play that game. Do you suggest that Ireland has no right to exist? Do you suggest that the Baltic states should not have revolted against Communist rule? Do you suggest that America should have remained a British colony? Secession, sir, is a tool. Let us judge the motivations of those who use that tool instead of the tool itself."

“I’m sorry,” Garibaldi said “Did Ireland initially vote to be part of the British Empire? Did the Baltic States vote to join the Soviet Union? Did the colonists vote to have their land part of the British Empire? No. No. The lands you named were conquered without consent of the people. We did not coerce Italy to join us. In fact, it wasn’t our idea for them to join the nation at all.”

[Langenia]

A vein on Hillshire's forehead visibly bulged, but he remained calm and continued to smile. "I hope you are not insinuating that allowing Italians to choose whether to remain with Insaanistan is equivalent to slavery. But let's play that game. Do you suggest that Ireland has no right to exist? Do you suggest that the Baltic states should not have revolted against Communist rule? Do you suggest that America should have remained a British colony? Secession, sir, is a tool. Let us judge the motivations of those who use that tool instead of the tool itself."

“I’m sorry,” Garibaldi said “Did Ireland initially vote to be part of the British Empire? Did the Baltic States vote to join the Soviet Union? Did the colonists vote to have their land part of the British Empire? No. No. The lands you named were conquered without consent of the people. We did not coerce Italy to join us. In fact, it wasn’t our idea for them to join the nation at all.”

The Langenian Minister speaks for the first time. "Would you mind telling us how Italy came to be Insaani, Mr. Garibaldi? I believe that would provide better background for all of us assembled here."

[Insaanistan]

“I’m sorry,” Garibaldi said “Did Ireland initially vote to be part of the British Empire? Did the Baltic States vote to join the Soviet Union? Did the colonists vote to have their land part of the British Empire? No. No. The lands you named were conquered without consent of the people. We did not coerce Italy to join us. In fact, it wasn’t our idea for them to join the nation at all.”

The Langenian Minister speaks for the first time. "Would you mind telling us how Italy came to be Insaani, Mr. Garibaldi? I believe that would provide better background for all of us assembled here."

“Certainly”, he said. He looked to Nura see if she wanted to tell, but she seemed to be just fine with him telling it.

[Polish Prussian Commonwealth]

A vein on Hillshire's forehead visibly bulged, but he remained calm and continued to smile. "I hope you are not insinuating that allowing Italians to choose whether to remain with Insaanistan is equivalent to slavery. But let's play that game. Do you suggest that Ireland has no right to exist? Do you suggest that the Baltic states should not have revolted against Communist rule? Do you suggest that America should have remained a British colony? Secession, sir, is a tool. Let us judge the motivations of those who use that tool instead of the tool itself."

“I’m sorry,” Garibaldi said “Did Ireland initially vote to be part of the British Empire? Did the Baltic States vote to join the Soviet Union? Did the colonists vote to have their land part of the British Empire? No. No. The lands you named were conquered without consent of the people. We did not coerce Italy to join us. In fact, it wasn’t our idea for them to join the nation at all.”

"Did Italy truly vote to join your nation?" Giuseppe shot back. "The Soviets had elections too in the Baltics over joining the USSR, but who said those elections were fair?"

[Caribbean Confederation]

Please keep OOC chatter in the signup thread? Less cluttering that way

"We are not asking about your grandparents, although I'm sure they made what they thought was the best choice." Hillshire attempted to soothe the man. "We are asking whether or not Italy and Italians should have the right to decide it's own fate-"

"Where did those Muslims come from originally?" Giuseppe interrupted. "Where from?"

"Frankly I'd say until the situation with nearly half the population being Arab colonists has been resolved, Italy shouldn't be allowed to decide its fate." Murphy spat, though he was supportive of where Hillshire and Giuseppe were taking the conversation -the more Insaanistan revealed here, the easier it would be to justify what he was now almost certain was in the horizon- he did not see things necessarily the same way they did, "migration is one thing, by Sam Hill even mass conversions we can take into account, but the Insaanistani representative has just said to us all that nearly half the population are colonists with no right to self-determination in a place they've unlawfully taken from its native population."

He paused. Just to set things straight, he was not about to admit his own opinion on whether or not the Southern States had had a right to secede -his homeland was a result of that secession, and they'd fought a war to end the slavery that had been its true cause- but he was certain he could use that to his advantage. "Whether or not Italy 'deserves' independence is irrelevant to whether Insaanistan has recognised the right to secede. As Mr. Hillshire said, secession is a tool, and any discussion on who deserves to use it is necessarily dependent on the nature of their relation with the metropole they are part of. I believe that Italy, colonised unlawfully by Insaanistan, deserves so."

[Insaanistan]

“I’m sorry,” Garibaldi said “Did Ireland initially vote to be part of the British Empire? Did the Baltic States vote to join the Soviet Union? Did the colonists vote to have their land part of the British Empire? No. No. The lands you named were conquered without consent of the people. We did not coerce Italy to join us. In fact, it wasn’t our idea for them to join the nation at all.”

"Did Italy truly vote to join your nation?" Giuseppe shot back. "The Soviets had elections too in the Baltics over joining the USSR, but who said those elections were fair?"

“The Soviets had already occupied the Baltic States before holding the votes, so no.”

[Langenia]

The Langenian Minister speaks for the first time. "Would you mind telling us how Italy came to be Insaani, Mr. Garibaldi? I believe that would provide better background for all of us assembled here."

“Certainly”, he said. He looked to Nura see if she wanted to tell, but she seemed to be just fine with him telling it.

"Go on, Mr. Garibaldi. We're waiting here, and the faster we can get issues like this out of the way we can come up with a resolution to end the Italian conflict," said the Minister Sanchez.

[Al-Musafakun]

Al-Baḥr al-ʾAbyaḍ al-Mutawassiṭ, near Apulia

On the horizon, visible from the shores of the Italian region of Apulia, the two ships carrying the Faithful mujahideen ventured onwards towards the land of Italy. Their crews were more than ready for any sudden encounter, and lingered around the area while their crew up on the mast searched for a good place to land and begin their fight. A cry came from one of the masts, followed by signalling to the other ship that a landing spot had been sighted. Both ships headed towards a relatively concealed beach to set up camp and prepare the trebuchets.

Upon landing, the crew disembarked from the ship, some slithering along the sand of the beach to set up tents and stockpiles while others loaded the equipment onto the shore. A few farsighted lamia sneakily rose up the land from the beach, hidden low, keeping alert for any possible enemies. For now, they were fine to finish their unloading and final preparations for the land campaign.

[Polish Prussian Commonwealth]

"Did Italy truly vote to join your nation?" Giuseppe shot back. "The Soviets had elections too in the Baltics over joining the USSR, but who said those elections were fair?"

“The Soviets had already occupied the Baltic States before holding the votes, so no.”

"You have already effectively occupied the country by flooding it with your citizens." Giuseppe spat.

Hillshire nodded at Murphy's words. "Indeed, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here, Mr. Murphy. The question of 'who is an Italian' can be resolved at a later date. The question at hand is thus; does the principle of national self-determination apply to Italy? The vast body of international law says 'yes' to this; take, for example, Chapter XI of the Charter of the United Nations. The fact of the matter is that, irregardless of any artificially-imposed laws, the nation of Italy and it's people has a right to choose it's own fate without interference from any other nations; certainly not a colonizer and tyrant."

[Insaanistan]

“You see, after the Algerians kicked the French out, Algeria decided to join Insaanistan, which at the time only constituted Niger, Northern Mali, Chad, Mauritania and Sudan. Seeing the French defeated filled us southern Italians with joy. Soon, some began raising the serious idea of joining the new state just across the sea. Sicily was the first, and it voted 72%-join 20%-stay. The rest of Southern Italy soon followed, with most winning by slim margins. Algerians began moving into Southern Italy to revisit the lands their ancestors had been forced out from by Catholic armies. This also exposed many Italians to Islam. North Italy launched an invasion of the South. We repelled it, but went no further than the land we already claimed. After the Vatican expressed concern we would try to conquer it, we assured them we would never in a formal treaty. Slowly, over the course of 13 years, the regions of Northern Italy joined us.”

[Insaanistan]

Al-Baḥr al-ʾAbyaḍ al-Mutawassiṭ, near Apulia

On the horizon, visible from the shores of the Italian region of Apulia, the two ships carrying the Faithful mujahideen ventured onwards towards the land of Italy. Their crews were more than ready for any sudden encounter, and lingered around the area while their crew up on the mast searched for a good place to land and begin their fight. A cry came from one of the masts, followed by signalling to the other ship that a landing spot had been sighted. Both ships headed towards a relatively concealed beach to set up camp and prepare the trebuchets.

Upon landing, the crew disembarked from the ship, some slithering along the sand of the beach to set up tents and stockpiles while others loaded the equipment onto the shore. A few farsighted lamia sneakily rose up the land from the beach, hidden low, keeping alert for any possible enemies. For now, they were fine to finish their unloading and final preparations for the land campaign.

The lamia would soon here a nearby mosque, calling Muslims for prayers.
“Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!
Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!
Ashhadu an la ilaha ila Allah!

[Langenia]

“You see, after the Algerians kicked the French out, Algeria decided to join Insaanistan, which at the time only constituted Niger, Northern Mali, Chad, Mauritania and Sudan. Seeing the French defeated filled us southern Italians with joy. Soon, some began raising the serious idea of joining the new state just across the sea. Sicily was the first, and it voted 72%-join 20%-stay. The rest of Southern Italy soon followed, with most winning by slim margins. Algerians began moving into Southern Italy to revisit the lands their ancestors had been forced out from by Catholic armies. This also exposed many Italians to Islam. North Italy launched an invasion of the South. We repelled it, but went no further than the land we already claimed. After the Vatican expressed concern we would try to conquer it, we assured them we would never in a formal treaty. Slowly, over the course of 13 years, the regions of Northern Italy joined us.”

"However, Italy remains with a Catholic majority, does it not? I doubt that Italy was Islamized that quickly. Islam is a minority on the Italian peninsula, if I am getting my facts correct?" asked Ricardo Furia, the Premier, while Foreign Minister Sanchez watched intently.

[Insaanistan]

“You see, after the Algerians kicked the French out, Algeria decided to join Insaanistan, which at the time only constituted Niger, Northern Mali, Chad, Mauritania and Sudan. Seeing the French defeated filled us southern Italians with joy. Soon, some began raising the serious idea of joining the new state just across the sea. Sicily was the first, and it voted 72%-join 20%-stay. The rest of Southern Italy soon followed, with most winning by slim margins. Algerians began moving into Southern Italy to revisit the lands their ancestors had been forced out from by Catholic armies. This also exposed many Italians to Islam. North Italy launched an invasion of the South. We repelled it, but went no further than the land we already claimed. After the Vatican expressed concern we would try to conquer it, we assured them we would never in a formal treaty. Slowly, over the course of 13 years, the regions of Northern Italy joined us.”

"However, Italy remains with a Catholic majority, does it not? I doubt that Italy was Islamized that quickly. Islam is a minority on the Italian peninsula, if I am getting my facts correct?" asked Ricardo Furia, the Premier, while Foreign Minister Sanchez watched intently.

“Yes,” said Garibaldi. “Though a large minority at that.”

[Al-Musafakun]

Al-Baḥr al-ʾAbyaḍ al-Mutawassiṭ, near Apulia

On the horizon, visible from the shores of the Italian region of Apulia, the two ships carrying the Faithful mujahideen ventured onwards towards the land of Italy. Their crews were more than ready for any sudden encounter, and lingered around the area while their crew up on the mast searched for a good place to land and begin their fight. A cry came from one of the masts, followed by signalling to the other ship that a landing spot had been sighted. Both ships headed towards a relatively concealed beach to set up camp and prepare the trebuchets.

Upon landing, the crew disembarked from the ship, some slithering along the sand of the beach to set up tents and stockpiles while others loaded the equipment onto the shore. A few farsighted lamia sneakily rose up the land from the beach, hidden low, keeping alert for any possible enemies. For now, they were fine to finish their unloading and final preparations for the land campaign.

The lamia would soon here a nearby mosque, calling Muslims for prayers.
“Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!
Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!
Ashhadu an la ilaha ila Allah!

This had caught the attention of many of the Faithful, who had joined this expedition to fulfil the Will of God, and the call to prayer had even fooled one. However, the commander of the expedition brought back any of those who may stray, and reminded them of the infidelity of these kuffir, following this with their own daily prayer, temporarily halting their camp construction as the Faithful prayed together, unswayed by the heathens that knelt to their false teachings.

[Langenia]

"However, Italy remains with a Catholic majority, does it not? I doubt that Italy was Islamized that quickly. Islam is a minority on the Italian peninsula, if I am getting my facts correct?" asked Ricardo Furia, the Premier, while Foreign Minister Sanchez watched intently.

“Yes,” said Garibaldi. “Though a large minority at that.”

"A large minority? Composed of immigrants from North Africa? Because the conversion of a deeply Catholic population in Italy that was here before the Insaani annexation in a period of only 60 years seems strange."

[Insaanistan]

“Yes,” said Garibaldi. “Though a large minority at that.”

"A large minority? Composed of immigrants from North Africa? Because the conversion of a deeply Catholic population in Italy that was here before the Insaani annexation in a period of only 60 years seems strange."

“Half are North African or part North African part Italian. Some like me aren’t North African at all. Though my grandparents were an exception: they became Muslims five years before the referendum came.”

[Polish Prussian Commonwealth]

“The Soviets had already occupied the Baltic States before holding the votes, so no.”

"You have already effectively occupied the country by flooding it with your citizens." Giuseppe spat.

Hillshire nodded at Murphy's words. "Indeed, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here, Mr. Murphy. The question of 'who is an Italian' can be resolved at a later date. The question at hand is thus; does the principle of national self-determination apply to Italy? The vast body of international law says 'yes' to this; take, for example, Chapter XI of the Charter of the United Nations. The fact of the matter is that, irregardless of any artificially-imposed laws, the nation of Italy and it's people has a right to choose it's own fate without interference from any other nations; certainly not a colonizer and tyrant."

[Langenia]

"A large minority? Composed of immigrants from North Africa? Because the conversion of a deeply Catholic population in Italy that was here before the Insaani annexation in a period of only 60 years seems strange."

“Half are North African or part North African part Italian. Some like me aren’t North African at all. Though my grandparents were an exception: they became Muslims five years before the referendum came.”

"Half? I find it impossible that even half of the Muslims would be native Italians. Yes, I find no problem believing that some of them would convert, but a number like that does not seem right. Italy has been Christian for thousands of years, and conversion of a number like that in only 60 years does not seem right either."

[Insaanistan]

"You have already effectively occupied the country by flooding it with your citizens." Giuseppe spat.

Hillshire nodded at Murphy's words. "Indeed, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here, Mr. Murphy. The question of 'who is an Italian' can be resolved at a later date. The question at hand is thus; does the principle of national self-determination apply to Italy? The vast body of international law says 'yes' to this; take, for example, Chapter XI of the Charter of the United Nations. The fact of the matter is that, irregardless of any artificially-imposed laws, the nation of Italy and it's people has a right to choose it's own fate without interference from any other nations; certainly not a colonizer and tyrant."

“If I here someone call me a colonizer one more time,” Nura said, “I might go mad. They aren’t a bloody colony. Don’t you think we of all people would know not to colonize?”

[The Selkie]

“If I here someone call me a colonizer one more time,” Nura said, “I might go mad. They aren’t a bloody colony. Don’t you think we of all people would know not to colonize?”

Berkant Veidhlín of the Tribe of Kildare.
It was always the same story, if you asked me... we arrived in this place yesterday, got acclimated and used to the fact, that there was a guided missile cruiser of the SDF waiting off-shore to take us back home - came with taking a dive in the metaphorical powder keg, I suppose.
I really, sometimes, wished myself back to the wonderful days in the Embassy of the Free Lands at the Qalat-al-Jabal in Kyrenaia... they made bloody good tea there. Liliane was close by, posing as my assistant, dressed into a pantsuit, much like I wore a suit - Geansai might be a bit too much for this conference, I supposed, the blonde Marcach agreeing.
Anyway, the discussion was heating up slowly but surely and I saw the time has come to put in my own two cents. Besides which, if Garibaldi only knew, how much and easily people forgot their past once there was a chance for the tables to turn...
"There are two major problems, Sir.", I spoke up, aiming my words at the Insaanistani Delegation, "For one thing, Italy is a colony. To my understanding, it is settled by a non-native minority, which holds the majority of the political power. This minority settled the country as if it was free real estate, to my understanding, and imposed its culture and especially religion on the native population. Likewise, neither the Italians themselves, nor the... 'regional government' of Italy has the political power of a sovereign state, for example in the form of an independent foreign policy. Instead it depends on their motherland for any of these questions." I made a small pause. "Besides which, second problem, Sovereignity is not a legal question but an extralegal question. The Right to Self-Determination, which Mister Hillshire mentioned, trumps over any constitution, be it the Insaanistani one or any else."
I made a small pause.
"If Insaanistan were to allow for a binding plebiscite on this matter, a fair and democratic one, observed by foreign observers, this matter would resolve itself.", I added, "Either the Italians decide to become independant in which case the matter resolves itself, or they decide to remain with Insaanistan..." I raised a hand in the direction of Mister Hillshire and his more temperamental companion, bidding them to allow me to finish this sentence. "...in which case the matter resolves itself as well. In the end, it will avoid bloodshed, which can be avoided."

[Caribbean Confederation]

“Yes,” said Garibaldi. “Though a large minority at that.”

"A large minority that you admitted a part of came into Italy through migration after Italy's annexation into your Empire." the Foreign secretary pointed out. "Whether they can be seen as settlers or domestic migrants is an question that should be settled at some later point, but can you say, with certainty, that -even assuming any elections to incorporate all of Italy into Insaanistan was not fraudulent or by any other means in bad faith- the non-Muslim majority -if I have my numbers right, nearly the entirety of Italy's population at that time- were calling for this to happen? And that should they -and not Muslim colonists- be asked, they will answer the same now?"

Hillshire nodded at Murphy's words. "Indeed, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here, Mr. Murphy. The question of 'who is an Italian' can be resolved at a later date. The question at hand is thus; does the principle of national self-determination apply to Italy? The vast body of international law says 'yes' to this; take, for example, Chapter XI of the Charter of the United Nations. The fact of the matter is that, irregardless of any artificially-imposed laws, the nation of Italy and it's people has a right to choose it's own fate without interference from any other nations; certainly not a colonizer and tyrant."

"Well argued, sir." Murphy admitted. The Polish-Prussian -Italian?- was right. The issue of who has the right of self-determination in Italy could be a question that this conference could come back to at some later point.

---

Port of Casablanca; the Casablanca Consession

Part of a Marine's life, Lt. Colonel Benjamin W. Clarke thought, was to spend much of his time at sea. The Marble Cabin had decided to deploy them -in truth one regiment short of an entire Marine Division- to the site of a potential conflict zone. Clarke's 2rd Marine Battalion "Princehaven" alongside five other similar units, in total 2,304 soldiers, had been deployed aboard the two Confederate Commando Carriers to Casablanca. From there, it was only a short trip across Gibraltar and then into Italy, and he was certain his boys could make it if the Foreign Secretary decided diplomacy just wasn't going to work this time.

[Langenia]

“Half are North African or part North African part Italian. Some like me aren’t North African at all. Though my grandparents were an exception: they became Muslims five years before the referendum came.”

"Half? I find it impossible that even half of the Muslims would be native Italians. Yes, I find no problem believing that some of them would convert, but a number like that does not seem right. Italy has been Christian for thousands of years, and conversion of a number like that in only 60 years does not seem right either."

[Romextly]

"How exactly is France, a close ally of Italy in 1960 losing going to make them happy to join?"

[Earth Allies]

HRM: Someone tells me why this is a talkative WW2 and I'm America here?
OOC: Wait Insaanistan has what?! Almost most of Europe?!