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by Wack-i » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm
by Axuva » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:41 pm
by Antenovaria » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:49 pm
by Mister X » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:30 pm
by Elejamie » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:03 pm
Mister X wrote:Cannot emphasise how strongly I am not only against the televote, but the way I feel it's been strong-armed into implementation based on a trial that was shaky at best. I do feel as though it's being hidden away through 27 other proposals at the same time and it's such a fundamentally terrible idea to my mind anyway, for concerns that haven't really been addressed. The only positive to it is having the "two phases" you get in ESC since 2016, but Nekoni's proposal on that appears to have been roundly ignored even though it's far better than what is being proposed here.
Please. VOTE NO.
MrX
by Todlichebujoku » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:17 pm
Elejamie wrote: but they should be more to fix how broken the contest's gotten, especially in recent editions.
[violet] wrote:You are my go-to nation for long names.
Oct 16 2018- Indo States wrote:YOU'RE FALSE TOBU
Apr 21 2020- Llalta wrote:omg tobu you’ve literally given me asthma with ur art
by Kalosia » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:03 pm
by Ertzei Kishim » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:05 pm
Kalosia wrote:snip
by Elejamie » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:51 pm
by La Montevideo » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:26 pm
by Todlichebujoku » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:51 pm
Elejamie wrote:Todlichebujoku wrote:Hello! Can you elaborate on this?
Well...
- How one-sided the contest's gotten, namely how the "big nations" might as well have first place handed to them even before they post whereas if one of the smaller nations provides a brilliant tune and exceptional RP they'll probably be lucky if they finish in the lower half of the top ten. I get why they do so well but, as the world of sport (and probably Ireland winning four times in the 90s, including three in a row) has proven to us time and time again, if you get the same people winning over and over again then it just sucks the fun out of the whole thing; case in point, the NBA from 2014-2018 and the NFL since the mid-2000s.
- The over-reliance of Eurovision 2020 entries and a certain variety of generic dance tune that I've talked about in the past, instead of trying to stand out or mix things up or anything to bring any audial diversity to the competition. As Nekoni pointed out a few months ago (albeit about the possibility of getting the best televote result): "if people want to do well, it almost pays to not be divisive or bring anything new to the table". Yes, I get personal preferences and all that, but it wouldn't hurt if everyone tried to broaden their horizons, both in selecting tunes to use and voting for entries. Yes, I get we're all disappointed Eurovision 2020 was cancelled but that's not really any excuse to try and give anyone who uses a song from it a ton of points, especially since we had our own ranking and a couple of songs that did well at the WV sucked at the rankings; instead, give it high marks because you thought it was a good song.
- For that matter, the over-reliance of trends to the point where all the novelty just gets sucked out, rather than either sticking to something basic or trying to innovate in some other way. For example, the 360° stages, which we've already had two of in a row (Britonisea in WV81 and Ertzei Kishim in WV82) and we've now got the potential of a third. They're not bad, my only real criticisms are that they can be hard to work with in the unfun way and the possibility of having to scrap a perfectly good RP idea because it involves a back wall, but they should really be used sparingly instead of over and over again.
- How the Committee has essentially become an ivory tower, as examplified by the fact we're now having regular special editions and right at the moment holding a vote on a permanent televote without even asking those on the forums what they think. Granted we're more active on Discord but, as a number of us (myself, Ethane, Mister X) have pointed out, not everyone is able to get on it or even has an account. And the less said about the arguments that followed that conversation, the better. It's probably why Mister X and myself have explained WHY we're against this permanent televote idea in this thread instead of keeping it off-site.
Yes, I get that this makes me a bit of a sore loser and all that, especially considering that I finished behind two of the aforementioned "big nations" in the past (lost to Polk in WV75 and lost to you in WV77) and recently I finished fifth in the last WorldVision behind two/maybe three big nations and Llalta (who used an ESC2020 entry for his winner). But here's the thing, though. I'm not exactly wrong. These, among a couple of other reasons, are reasons why I'm starting to fall out of love with the WorldVision and, if it weren't for the fact that my country's neutral so II's kind of useless to me, there haven't really been any interesting competitions in NS Sports (though the new RLWC's starting soon I don't know WHEN exactly because no deadline as of writing) and for the past several months P2TM has been full of RPs I've had no real interest participating in, I'd probably call it quits again.
[violet] wrote:You are my go-to nation for long names.
Oct 16 2018- Indo States wrote:YOU'RE FALSE TOBU
Apr 21 2020- Llalta wrote:omg tobu you’ve literally given me asthma with ur art
by Besen » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:52 pm
by Britonisea » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:02 pm
Elejamie wrote:Yes, I get that this makes me a bit of a sore loser and all that, especially considering that I finished behind two of the aforementioned "big nations" in the past (lost to Polk in WV75 and lost to you in WV77) and recently I finished fifth in the last WorldVision behind two/maybe three big nations and Llalta (who used an ESC2020 entry for his winner). But here's the thing, though. I'm not exactly wrong. These, among a couple of other reasons, are reasons why I'm starting to fall out of love with the WorldVision and, if it weren't for the fact that my country's neutral so II's kind of useless to me, there haven't really been any interesting competitions in NS Sports (though the new RLWC's starting soon I don't know WHEN exactly because no deadline as of writing) and for the past several months P2TM has been full of RPs I've had no real interest participating in, I'd probably call it quits again.
Elejamie wrote:For that matter, the over-reliance of trends to the point where all the novelty just gets sucked out, rather than either sticking to something basic or trying to innovate in some other way. For example, the 360° stages, which we've already had two of in a row (Britonisea in WV81 and Ertzei Kishim in WV82) and we've now got the potential of a third. They're not bad, my only real criticisms are that they can be hard to work with in the unfun way and the possibility of having to scrap a perfectly good RP idea because it involves a back wall, but they should really be used sparingly instead of over and over again.
by Polkopia » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:06 pm
...namely how the "big nations" might as well have first place handed to them...
The over-reliance of Eurovision 2020 entries and a certain variety of generic dance tunes...
For that matter, the over-reliance of trends...
by Kalosia » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:42 pm
Elejamie wrote:...namely how the "big nations" might as well have first place handed to them even before they post whereas if one of the smaller nations provides a brilliant tune and exceptional RP they'll probably be lucky if they finish in the lower half of the top ten.
by Todlichebujoku » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:51 pm
[violet] wrote:You are my go-to nation for long names.
Oct 16 2018- Indo States wrote:YOU'RE FALSE TOBU
Apr 21 2020- Llalta wrote:omg tobu you’ve literally given me asthma with ur art
by Mister X » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:59 pm
by Nekoni » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:11 am
I'm coming from a completely impersonal view here. In a system where negative scoring exists, then there's a noticeably greater risk in putting something that's genuinely a different idea down than putting down a safe bet that you know will score, isn't there? I don't know how risk-adverse people are here, but there is a concern, that if people are wanting to win, there's a temptation there to do what everyone else is doing. I feel that if I was a new nation, and I tried to push the boat out with something a bit left-of-dial, a bit limited in RP and stuff, but still with actual substance and because people didn't like how naive it looked, the big featureless televote went to me "NAH, ZERO", I'd feel pretty pissed off.I'd also really love for Nekoni to explain what he meant by that quote, especially since he Top 2'd recently.
I'd really love you to explain what THIS means, considering it was my first top 5 in over a year, and only my second in seven. I'm not sure what occasionally being able to catch lightning in a bottle has to do with anything.especially since he Top 2'd recently
by Britonisea » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:56 am
Nekoni wrote:My personal misgivings are that you're changing the formula about and giving us a vote on whether to make it permanent at the same time, before we've even had a chance to see if the fixes work. I'm not entirely closed to the idea of it, nah, I'd probably have given it a couple more trials before jumping in with a referendum.
Mister X wrote:Brit, if you had an issue with changing the host voting system you should have raised it at the time - or indeed in any of the 30 editions since.
by Ertzei Kishim » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:38 am
Nekoni wrote:My personal misgivings are that you're changing the formula about and giving us a vote on whether to make it permanent at the same time, before we've even had a chance to see if the fixes work. I'm not entirely closed to the idea of it, nah, I'd probably have given it a couple more trials before jumping in with a referendum.
Nekoni wrote:I'm coming from a completely impersonal view here. In a system where negative scoring exists, then there's a noticeably greater risk in putting something that's genuinely a different idea down than putting down a safe bet that you know will score, isn't there? I don't know how risk-adverse people are here, but there is a concern, that if people are wanting to win, there's a temptation there to do what everyone else is doing. I feel that if I was a new nation, and I tried to push the boat out with something a bit left-of-dial, a bit limited in RP and stuff, but still with actual substance and because people didn't like how naive it looked, the big featureless televote went to me "NAH, ZERO", I'd feel pretty pissed off.
by Electrum Diplomatic Offices » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:53 am
by Todlichebujoku » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:39 am
Mister X wrote:I don’t think there was any insinuation that the WVC should police tunes
Elejamie wrote:Don't get me wrong, there should be some changes here at WorldVision, but they should be more to fix how broken the contest's gotten, especially in recent editions.
that the Discord server has created a bubble that relies in almost a political “inner sanctum”
[violet] wrote:You are my go-to nation for long names.
Oct 16 2018- Indo States wrote:YOU'RE FALSE TOBU
Apr 21 2020- Llalta wrote:omg tobu you’ve literally given me asthma with ur art
by Izmedu » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:06 am
by Kalosia » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:17 pm
by Scotatrova » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:16 pm
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