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The Great Gael War (TWI ONLY)

Where nations come together and discuss matters of varying degrees of importance. [In character]

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Verdon
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Founded: Apr 27, 2015
Libertarian Police State

Postby Verdon » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:31 pm

Razzgriz wrote:Yes, the Osean-Elerian War with Flandrian, assuming you'd be supporting my government during the civil war, which now involves The Oseamar Empire (razzgriz & cheoju), Elerian Empire (Flandrian), Thuriclia (Dothrakia), Nezaeva, and you as well I believe.

I figured this event would be part of the war due to Verdon's involvement our war as well as the Oseans returning the favor and joining the Great Gael War on Verdon's side as an Eterna split between Verdon and the OE was much better than one held by the UR or the Elerian Empire.

Cool, this works. Can you tell me which nations are on which side in the Osea-Elerian War?

Dormill and Stiura wrote:In Samudera, it would be fun to see Razzgriz attempt to incite an Ipachi uprising that drags the Osean-Elerian War into the wider conflict.

I think this is a pretty nice catalyst for Verdon and the OE to end up on the same side in both wars. The Oseans, attempting to take advantage of the war between Verdon and the Republics, stages and arms a nationalist uprising. Unfortunately, their meddling is discovered and are made to war against DS, thus merging the conflicts through mutual interest of the belligerents. All of that hinging on everyone's approval, especially Samu.

Dormill and Stiura wrote:In addition, with the Third Central Argus War canon again, my forces are going to be spread pretty thin to fight in all of the fronts in the conflicts, maybe this could help explain the prevalence of trenches in some areas of the front, with the United Republics trying to hold their positions while their other forces are trying to do some kind of Schlieffen Plan in Central Argus or something.

There's very little info on the Third Argus War anywhere, so I'd like to know more about that.

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Samudera
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Postby Samudera » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:03 am

Verdon wrote:
Dormill and Stiura wrote:In Samudera, it would be fun to see Razzgriz attempt to incite an Ipachi uprising that drags the Osean-Elerian War into the wider conflict.

I think this is a pretty nice catalyst for Verdon and the OE to end up on the same side in both wars. The Oseans, attempting to take advantage of the war between Verdon and the Republics, stages and arms a nationalist uprising. Unfortunately, their meddling is discovered and are made to war against DS, thus merging the conflicts through mutual interest of the belligerents. All of that hinging on everyone's approval, especially Samu.

I approve of it. Would be an interesting scenario
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Razzgriz
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Founded: Aug 01, 2014
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Postby Razzgriz » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:55 am

Verdon wrote:
Razzgriz wrote:Yes, the Osean-Elerian War with Flandrian, assuming you'd be supporting my government during the civil war, which now involves The Oseamar Empire (razzgriz & cheoju), Elerian Empire (Flandrian), Thuriclia (Dothrakia), Nezaeva, and you as well I believe.

I figured this event would be part of the war due to Verdon's involvement our war as well as the Oseans returning the favor and joining the Great Gael War on Verdon's side as an Eterna split between Verdon and the OE was much better than one held by the UR or the Elerian Empire.

Cool, this works. Can you tell me which nations are on which side in the Osea-Elerian War?

Dormill and Stiura wrote:In Samudera, it would be fun to see Razzgriz attempt to incite an Ipachi uprising that drags the Osean-Elerian War into the wider conflict.

I think this is a pretty nice catalyst for Verdon and the OE to end up on the same side in both wars. The Oseans, attempting to take advantage of the war between Verdon and the Republics, stages and arms a nationalist uprising. Unfortunately, their meddling is discovered and are made to war against DS, thus merging the conflicts through mutual interest of the belligerents. All of that hinging on everyone's approval, especially Samu.

Dormill and Stiura wrote:In addition, with the Third Central Argus War canon again, my forces are going to be spread pretty thin to fight in all of the fronts in the conflicts, maybe this could help explain the prevalence of trenches in some areas of the front, with the United Republics trying to hold their positions while their other forces are trying to do some kind of Schlieffen Plan in Central Argus or something.

There's very little info on the Third Argus War anywhere, so I'd like to know more about that.



Western Eterna Coalition:
OE (Razzgriz & Cheoju), Verdon and Dothrakia

(placeholder name) Eterna-Kavju Compact:
Flandrian and Nezaeva

You definitely got the go ahead from me and since Samudera gave the greenlight as well, I guess its official.

I can definitely see the OE attempting take advantage of the UR's involvement in the initial phases of the Great Gael War and attempting to undermine their holding in Western Samudera. The plan could end in disaster as the sudden out-break of the Osean-Elerian War draws the governments attention. A local contact of ours in western Samudera could have been caught and spills our involvement in the recent civil-unrest leading to the UR to declare war on the OE on the belief that should the OE win their civil war they'd come for them next (which was true).

In response the OE would declare war on the UR and the enemy of my enemy is my friend scenario plays out ending in the OE and Verdon allying each other fully bringing the OE into the war.

By 1912 however the Osean-Elerian War would have ended in an uneasy truce (was a cease-fire) that would have allowed for the Oseans to throw most of their might into mainland Gael and the Southern Sea. This could perhaps lead to the UR looking south for much needed resources possibly leading to the 3rd Central Argus War. The interesting thing about this however would be that depending on how successful the UR's !Schlieffen Plan worked in Central Argus could bring the OE to once again divide its forces and enter the 3rd Central Argus War as well in order to halt their advance.

Is there a way I can make the OE a pseudo U.S. in terms of immigration during the later stages of the war as immigrants flee from the conflict on mainland Gael?
Last edited by Razzgriz on Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dormill and Stiura
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Postby Dormill and Stiura » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:18 pm

I'm back!!! And I apologize for being away for so long with this project, I felt it was already done and most of us had integrated this to our histories and moved on. However, something came up (at the time of writing) a few moments ago, and it was too interesting for me to pass up when I heard it.

So Athara Magarat had proposed that the Third Central Argus War be triggered by a !Franz Ferdinand situation in Dormill and Stiura, starting a war of succession between Noronica and another claimant (currently I've heard that Razzgriz has expressed interest in being the other claimant and that's how I'll write it) that spirals out into both that war, and the Great Gael War which would have overlapped it otherwise. So I want to propose a new timeline, with the point of divergence bolded so you all know.

  • 1893: Verdon Invades Ostehaar by sea, catching the young nation off-guard and undefended. A brief battle opens up nearly all of Southern Ostehaar to Verdonian conquest.
  • 1894: Dormill and Stiura, seeing the invasion as an open invitation to follow suit, invades Ostehaar and forms a three-way front between itself, the Osters, and the Verdonians.
  • 1895: The Treaty of Sertomir and the Treaty of Waalwijk are signed establishing Verdonian and Dormill-Stiruaian zones of control in Ostehaar respectively, no treaty is signed between the United Republics and Verdon, starting an unspoken war between the two over makeshift trenches.
  • 1901: The Peace of Rio Pena effectively ends Dormill-Stiuraian dominion over eastern Argus, this devastating political defeat drives President Nicholas Favre to double his efforts against Verdonian occupied Ostehaar, to little avail as the nation lacks the finances to start another war as soon as the last one.
  • 1905: The Canal War begins, with Dormill and Stiura fighting the Khas-Kirat for control over the Central Argus Canal. Verdon (likely) intervenes in the favor of the Magarati, forcing the Dormill-Stiuraians to focus their efforts in Gael rather than in Argus, eventually resulting in yet another peace.
  • 1908: Revolution stirs in Dormill and Stiura as President Favre tries everything he can to assert the power of Dormill and Stiura, and again initiates new operations in Ostehaar to much the same lack of success as before, facing resistance at home, the National Congress steps in and pulls troops back to the border, making overtures of peace with Verdon that temporarily eases the situation.
  • September, 1909: The Revolution against Favre begins, causing turmoil along the Dormill-Stiuraian lines, little progress is made by the Republicans over the winter as Verdon reinforces itself in better positions.
  • November 11, 1909: Tilija Hangma, last living member of the Magarati House of Mgar at the time, is killed in Courlaroux by an unknown bullet during the fighting. She was there to ease the relationship between the Untied Republics and her Empire. Her death would precipitate across the Isles as several would-be Hangs begin vying for the throne.
  • 1910: Dieudonne Blaise is elected President, and continues to make overtures of peace with Verdon and Ostehaar, seeing that the Khas-Kirat Succession Crisis is on the verge of becoming a Succession War, threatening Dormill and Stiura's position in Argus.
  • Summer 1910: After tense negotiations in Nolon City, the United Republics formally grants support to the Overlord in the succession. Secret discussions between President Blaise and Prime Minister Harold McKenzie also concern the situation in Miklania, but end inconclusively.
  • Late Summer 1910: Fearful of the power of the Republican-Noronnican Alliance, Verdon begins diplomatic overtures with Razzgirz. Both nations already desired to see an end to Dormill and Stiura's presence in the Southern Sea, and the succession crisis between Razzgirz and Noronica galvanized an alliance between them.
  • 1911: The lines are drawn between a third Triumvirate of Dormill and Stiura, Noronica, and X and the Western Eterna Coalition of Verdon, Razzgirz, and Roendavar, war seems inevitable but neither side has pulled the trigger yet.
  • March 1911: In an effort to end the war before it begins, Dormill and Stiura begins a blockade in the Southern Sea, specifically targeting ships of the Coalition and forcing them away.
  • April 5, 1911: Unwilling to be the belligerents in the war, the Coalition deploys Merchant Raiders against the Dormill-Stiuraian blockade, forcing the DSN to sink three ships, damaging another two, and forcing the rest away.
  • April 6, 1911: Using the attack against the Merchant Raiders as a casus belli, claiming that the ships were unarmed, Verdon declares war on Dormill and Stiura. Razzgirz, the same day, declares war against Noronica to claim the Khas-Kirat throne, beginning the War of the Khas-Kirat Succession (also remembered as the Great Gael War in Gael, and the Third Central Argus War in Argus).
  • 1913: The first two years come and go, the situation in Ostehaar has turned to the advantage of Verdon while the Verdonian heartland are coming under the bombing sights of Dormill and Stiura's new air force following the successful invasion of Roendavar.
  • 1914: The War in Argus progresses for Noronica, aided by Dormill-Stiuraian forces pulled away from Gael after intense fighting in Ostehaar. In Gael the front has stabilized on all sides, only the naval war remains a fluid battle with both the Noronnican and Dormill-Stiuraian Southern Sea Fleets try to push back the Western Eterna fleets and begin a blockade.
  • 1915: With even less movement on the front in Gael, the two sides begin to consider peace, and talks begin in the presence of a ceasefire. In Argus, however, no such ceasefire comes as more nations become involved in the conflict, pulling more resources away from Gael.
  • 1916: The Second Miklanian Civil War ends in defeat for Noronica, its fleets in the far west crippled. The situation causes a crisis in the government of Noronica, leading to the United Republics briefly taking over operations in Athara Magarat. In Gael, the ceasefire holds tenuously, even the naval conflict has died down to some extent with the two sides infrequently allowing for the movement of supplies between them.
  • 1918: In Argus, the War is nearly over. The Third Central Argus Coalition had been decisively defeated in battle and there are already talks that they will come with terms. Athara Magarat has been secured, and the Overlord was finally placed on the Khas-Kirat throne.
  • 1920: The War in Gael suddenly heats up again as Razzgirz, still at war with the Triumvirate, attempts to instigate an Ipachi Uprising in Dormill-Stiuraian Samudera, Dormill and Stiura responds by sending the DSN deep into Osean waters and shelling two Osean cities.
  • 1925: Five more years passed, although no permanent peace has been reached, a second ceasefire was reached between the sides in the War in Gael, peace was achieved in Argus through the Treaty of Lituvo, which recognized the Overlord of Noronica as Hangma of the Khas-Kirat Empire and otherwise ended the conflict without reparations demanded on either side, rendering the Third Central Argus War over. Later on, just before the Second Oster War begins, a new round of talks gains significant ground, but its members are killed by Osters disguised as each other's bodyguards, beginning the Second Oster War.
  • 1927: After significant losses on all three sides, a permanent peace of status quo ante bellum is adopted, restoring the borders of Ostehaar and Verdon, additionally levying reparations from both Verdon and Dormill and Stiura to Ostehaar. Separate settlements are made between the allies of the three powers are made through 1930 These settlements would officially end the Great Gael War and the Khas-Kirat Succession War.
Last edited by Dormill and Stiura on Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:33 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Athara Magarat
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Postby Athara Magarat » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:02 pm

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=ath ... id=1142754

Link to the so-called House of Mgar.

The hangates of the Khas-Kirat Empire, as electors, would be divided over whom to elect (no use of a succession war if there's no divisions between the electors :P ). The northerners led by Arun Valley (who had long-standing marriages with the Noronnican royal family) would support Noronica (who already have Myagdi Island, a Noronnican-Magarati hanagte, within the empire) while the southerners led by Second Tamsaling Hangate (whose 17th Century ruler, the then Mahang, Moktan Hang had been blood brother of the prince of Tachil and intermarried with the Osean Ran dynasty) would support Razzgriz (who also hold city-states of Unovi and Yitoria; territories within the empire).
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Razzgriz
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Postby Razzgriz » Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:30 pm

I figured inciting the revolt in Samudera would have occurred before the assassination of the Mahang. The Civil War breaks out in 1906, so having it breakout as the result of our meddling managing to plunge the country into yet another war that the population did not fully support would tie in nicely. With the civil war raging, and you declaring war on the OE, or vice versa since you shelled 2 of the OE's cities, the Oseamar Empire opts to ally with Verdon due to having a common enemy. The 1909 assassination of the Mahang and the looming threat of war in Argus would have been too much for the OE to handle leading to negotiations with the Noronican Colonial Empire, and the separation of the Khas-Kirat Empire into Northern and Southern Portions, though this wouldn't sit well with the Magarrati themselves. By the Civil War's end in 1912 the OE would have been able to concentrate its attention solely to winning the Great Gael War which could have seen major offensives and counter-attacks from both sides. By 1914 the bulk of the OE's forces would have been located in Gael and the Southern Sea, and a major naval contingent in the Argean after utilizing the canal earlier in the war, leaving the OE mostly unprepared for the outbreak of the 3rd Central Argus War. I figured it could start as a series of skirmishes between North and South Magarat, eventually leading to full scale war between the 2 entities and dragging both The Noronican Colonial Empire and Oseamar Empire into it as well. During the initial phases of the war the Southern Magarati Military would barely see aid from the OE, outside of whatever contingents the OE could spare from Cheoju and the Territories of Duella, Yitoria and Unovi. With Noronica actually taking the war seriously in Argus, initiating talks with the UR and closing off the canal, the OE would be forced to redirect forces to assist its Southern Supporters as the Argean Fleet is forced to breakthrough the I.D.

As Noronica joins the Triumvirate and makes early gains in central Argus, alleviating the pressure on the UR, moral improves and the tides of war once again begin to shift in the Triumvirate's favor. That is, until veteran forces from the Oseamar Empire and the Coalition begin to land in Central Argus in increasing numbers and halt the Triumvirate Advance leading to a full on stalemate on both fronts as trench warfare begins to take center stage. In 1916, with the Miklanian Civil War crippling the Noronican Western Fleet, the Coalition begins a renewed offensive as Astratii begin to land in the West, supported by the OE's Mesder Fleet. The attack could come as a surprise turning the situation critical for the Triumvirate, however they are able to hold as supply-lines fail to support the advance further and the Coalition begins to slowly be pushed back as more Triumvirate Troops arrive in Argus. With mounting opposition at home in wake of yet another failed offensive that could have ended the war, and more Noronican Troops pouring into Argus, the OE calls for a cease-fire in 1919 and begins peace talks with the Triumvirate in order to save face before the war escapes their grasps for good.

-edit-
Wow, this is a 43 year long conflict spanning 4 wars.
Last edited by Razzgriz on Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Dormill and Stiura
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Postby Dormill and Stiura » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:27 pm

Here's my counter-offer.

In the Banda Territory, anti-revolution citizens, Dormill-Stiuraian and Ipachi alike, take up arms and throw back the revolution, rather than the normal army. This new Citizen's Guard of the Banda Territory then goes on to stage an attack on two Osean cities in retaliation. Dormill and Stiura denies connections to this Citizen's Guard, as the actual Citizen's Guard of Banda and Sanggar-Kepanie were not involved. This creates a new high in tensions between the Osean Empire and the United Republics, the former now seeking to mend relations with Verdon as the two now share a common enemy. Throughout the end of the decade, the Osean Empire begins to focus its forces to attack Dormill and Stiura on all fronts, while sending a token force to defend its half of the Hangates in Argus. The sudden outbreak of the Third Central Argus War, with historic ally Noronica joining the Triumvirate. This sudden change in the situation, plus news that Dormill-Stiuraian forces are deploying to the Hangates, forces a change in the strategy of the Osean Empire, causing them to also send troops to the Hangates to hold back the Triumvirate while supporting Verdon in its campaign in Orsandia.
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Athara Magarat
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Postby Athara Magarat » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:49 pm

1909

On November 11; Tilija Hangma, last living member of the mainland "Magarati" House of Mgar at the time, is killed in Courlaroux by an unknown bullet during the fighting. She was there to ease the relationship between the Untied Republics and her Empire. Her death would precipitate across the Isles as several would-be Hangs from cadets branches begin vying for the throne.

1910

The 14 hangates as electors would would each place a different candidate. Almost all of these hangates had foreign allies or good relations and would likely place their ally in the throne. While they would have definitely preferred a candidate of their own nation, the rules clearly stated that while anyone could become a hang; only a descendant of Mgar's 12 daughters could become the Mahang. Thus the started supporting wuld-be hangs from cadets branches.

Chatha - Someone from Belle Ilse en Terre

Marubhumi - Someone from Linaviar

Jaring - Someone from Torom

Sinja - Someone from Kho Panha

Tamsaling - Someone from Razzgriz

Tamuwan - Someone from New Totzka

Mun and Chuli - undecided; these two are like super neutral, landlocked and having no foreign allies

Arun Valley - Someone from Noronica

Liba - Someone from Noronica

Tiwe Sivn - Someone from Domanania

Myagdi - Someone from Noronica

Akar - Someone from Keomora

Dura (Sawneeak) - Someone from Dragao do Mar

Noronica's candidate would be the clear leader with three votes for him or her. Throughout 1910, Razzgriz's candidate should do his or her best to ensure that there is no majority (8 or more votes for the same candidate), sway the undecideds into his or her side and bribe, threaten, blackmail or even assassinate those supporting other candidates and you know, spread rumors about the other candidate.

1911

The 14 hangates are in a stalemate. The candidates from Razzgriz and Noronica both have 7 votes each and the same issue had been deadlock had been for months; preventing the election of the Mahang as the threat of a great succession war loomed.

Noronica's candidate - The Northern Magarati Alliance (led by Hangate of Arun Valley and members include Liba Hangate, "Noronnican-Magarati" Myagdi Island Hangate, "Keomoran" Akar Hangate, Second Tamuwan Hangate, Mun Hangate and Chuli Hangate)

Razzgriz's candidate - The Southern Magarati Pact (led by Second Tamsaling Hangate and members include "what would later be northern San Montagnan" Hangates of Chatha and Jaring, Hangate of Sinja, Marubhumi Hangate, "Doman" Tiwe Sivn Hangate and Dura Hangate of Sawneeak Atoll)

Do note that Khas-Kirat Empire has not become two countries. This is more like two alliances between mini-countries within the Empire. And they would not call themselves Northern Alliance or Southern Pact. I imagine that did be terms given by foreign media to make things easier.

And rightly so, 1911 is when other foreign powers also proclaim their support for these two candidates.

I will prepare a map.

Image
Last edited by Athara Magarat on Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Dothrakia
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Postby Dothrakia » Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:31 pm

Is there any way we could get a map going like the one we have for the Imperial War, maybe labelled for when people join the conflict? I think It would help with everyones understanding of the timeline and for potential battles and such.

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Dormill and Stiura
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Postby Dormill and Stiura » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:14 pm

Dothrakia wrote:Is there any way we could get a map going like the one we have for the Imperial War, maybe labelled for when people join the conflict? I think It would help with everyones understanding of the timeline and for potential battles and such.

Go back about one page. Verdon did a map for the sides in the Great Gael War just before this new idea AM proposed.
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Verdon
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Postby Verdon » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:28 pm

Mmmmmokay I think we need to step back and look at what actually is happening over the time period. We currently have multiple wars, fought by the same belligerents, ending at multiple times. We need to figure out who's fighting who, and at what time. Along with this belligerent timeline, I'm going to suggest a couple more changes:

1893-1895
Verdon vs Ostehaar
DS vs Ostehaar

1895-1905
Verdon vs DS
**There is quite a lot of open war between these two nations, so I'm suggesting that these years be considered skirmishes and border dispute, rather than out and out war**

1905
Verdon, Khas Kirat vs DS
Failed Uprising in Samudera by OE
**I suggest putting this here as a mini conflict in the Canal War. It helps Razzgrizz set up the Osean-Elerian War and happens while Verdon and DS are fighting each other. As a smart move, although potentially appearing weak to it's citizens, DS decides to end the Canal War early in a defeat, avoiding a fight in which it is outnumbered - It does not, however, predict that the Oseans would devolve into civil war and thus those more war-hawkish Republicans gain another reason for rebelling**
***This could also result in a brief alliance between Verdon and The Khas Kirati from 1905 to 1909, which ends with the death of Tilija Hangma. This also provides incentive for Verdon to help in the Succession, potentially swaying some of the Hangates who valued the Verdon-Kirati alliance, towards the Razz candidate***

1906-1911
OE, Dothrakia, Cheonju, Verdon vs Flandrian Naezeva
**Wherein Verdon enters the conflict for some reason which we could potentially attach to the bold territory 'Southpaw Atoll' that I really really want to control at this point in time. This also means that Verdon is at war while DS is having it's internal struggle - if it were not, Verdon would capitalize on it's rivals weakness**

**Here, a shift needs to be made if the Coalition are to be the ones to declare war. We wouldn't until the Civil War ends, so either the start date needs to be pushed back to 1912, or the Civil War needs to end in 1911. I'm going to suggest the latter, as this changes the least amount of events**

1911
Verdon, OE, Roendavar, Eastern Orsandia, Southern Magarati vs DS, Western Orsandia, Noronnica, Northern Magarati

**There's another issue here. The timeline treats the multiple theaters of combat as if they are different wars. There would be no ceasefire on the Verdonese front if the Oseans continued to fight in Argus. That would not be upholding the alliance.**

1912-1920
Verdon, OE, Eastern Orsandia, Southern Magarati vs DS, Western Orsandia, Noronnica, Northern Magarati, Roendavar

1920-1925
Ceasefire
Treaty of Lituvo - Coalition and Triumvirate effectively disbanded
(Also Verdon vs Itself)

1925-1926
Ostehaar, Thuzbekistan vs Verdon, East Orsandia
Ostehaar, Thuzbekistan vs DS, Roendavar, West Orsandia
(Potential Noronnican meddling, secretly agreeing to exit the Triumvirate at exactly this time)

1926
Upheaval in Roendavar causes country to exit all conflict

1927
Depletion of DS and Verdon resources, devastation in Orsandia, and lack of allies on both sides leads to
PEACE IN OUR TIME
Last edited by Verdon on Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dothrakia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dothrakia » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:09 am

Verdon wrote:Mmmmmokay I think we need to step back and look at what actually is happening over the time period. We currently have multiple wars, fought by the same belligerents, ending at multiple times. We need to figure out who's fighting who, and at what time. Along with this belligerent timeline, I'm going to suggest a couple more changes:

1893-1895
Verdon vs Ostehaar
DS vs Ostehaar

1895-1905
Verdon vs DS
**There is quite a lot of open war between these two nations, so I'm suggesting that these years be considered skirmishes and border dispute, rather than out and out war**

1905
Verdon, Khas Kirat vs DS
Failed Uprising in Samudera by OE
**I suggest putting this here as a mini conflict in the Canal War. It helps Razzgrizz set up the Osean-Elerian War and happens while Verdon and DS are fighting each other. As a smart move, although potentially appearing weak to it's citizens, DS decides to end the Canal War early in a defeat, avoiding a fight in which it is outnumbered - It does not, however, predict that the Oseans would devolve into civil war and thus those more war-hawkish Republicans gain another reason for rebelling**
***This could also result in a brief alliance between Verdon and The Khas Kirati from 1905 to 1909, which ends with the death of Tilija Hangma. This also provides incentive for Verdon to help in the Succession, potentially swaying some of the Hangates who valued the Verdon-Kirati alliance, towards the Razz candidate***

1906-1911
OE, Dothrakia, Cheonju, Verdon vs Flandrian Naezeva
**Wherein Verdon enters the conflict for some reason which we could potentially attach to the bold territory 'Southpaw Atoll' that I really really want to control at this point in time. This also means that Verdon is at war while DS is having it's internal struggle - if it were not, Verdon would capitalize on it's rivals weakness**

**Here, a shift needs to be made if the Coalition are to be the ones to declare war. We wouldn't until the Civil War ends, so either the start date needs to be pushed back to 1912, or the Civil War needs to end in 1911. I'm going to suggest the latter, as this changes the least amount of events**

1911
Verdon, OE, Roendavar, Eastern Orsandia, Southern Magarati vs DS, Western Orsandia, Noronnica, Northern Magarati

**There's another issue here. The timeline treats the multiple theaters of combat as if they are different wars. There would be no ceasefire on the Verdonese front if the Oseans continued to fight in Argus. That would not be upholding the alliance.**

1912-1920
Verdon, OE, Eastern Orsandia, Southern Magarati vs DS, Western Orsandia, Noronnica, Northern Magarati, Roendavar

1920-1925
Ceasefire
Treaty of Lituvo - Coalition and Triumvirate effectively disbanded
(Also Verdon vs Itself)

1925-1926
Ostehaar, Thuzbekistan vs Verdon, East Orsandia
Ostehaar, Thuzbekistan vs DS, Roendavar, West Orsandia
(Potential Noronnican meddling, secretly agreeing to exit the Triumvirate at exactly this time)

1926
Upheaval in Roendavar causes country to exit all conflict

1927
Depletion of DS and Verdon resources, devastation in Orsandia, and lack of allies on both sides leads to
PEACE IN OUR TIME


I think it would be helpful to establish who had alliances and when they were formed to establish who was working together in a joint campaign vs just fighting the same enemy. For example are me and OE in a military alliance with Verdon like the western allies in the world wars or do we just happen to have the same enemy in flandrian.

User avatar
Verdon
Diplomat
 
Posts: 668
Founded: Apr 27, 2015
Libertarian Police State

Postby Verdon » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:28 am

Dothrakia wrote:I think it would be helpful to establish who had alliances and when they were formed to establish who was working together in a joint campaign vs just fighting the same enemy. For example are me and OE in a military alliance with Verdon like the western allies in the world wars or do we just happen to have the same enemy in flandrian.

Yes this is the thing I was having my main issue with in the current timeline. In my list, if nations are listed together in a conflict (x,y,z vs a,b,c) , they are actively supporting one another. If they are not, like in years 1893-1895 and 1925-1926 (x,y vs a,b & r,s vs a,b) those conflicts are simultaneous and separate.

Your question specifically; Verdon and OE are actively in Alliance during the Osean-Elerian War. I'm not quite certain of what your relationship with the OE is at this point
Last edited by Verdon on Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Dothrakia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 55
Founded: Aug 13, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dothrakia » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:23 am

Verdon wrote:
Dothrakia wrote:I think it would be helpful to establish who had alliances and when they were formed to establish who was working together in a joint campaign vs just fighting the same enemy. For example are me and OE in a military alliance with Verdon like the western allies in the world wars or do we just happen to have the same enemy in flandrian.

Yes this is the thing I was having my main issue with in the current timeline. In my list, if nations are listed together in a conflict (x,y,z vs a,b,c) , they are actively supporting one another. If they are not, like in years 1893-1895 and 1925-1926 (x,y vs a,b & r,s vs a,b) those conflicts are simultaneous and separate.

Your question specifically; Verdon and OE are actively in Alliance during the Osean-Elerian War. I'm not quite certain of what your relationship with the OE is at this point


Me and the OE have a longstanding alliance to basically back each other up in any military conflict so I would most likely join when they do and exit the they do barring me having an alliance with someone else like you.

User avatar
Razzgriz
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 380
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Razzgriz » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:24 am

Dormill and Stiura wrote:Here's my counter-offer.

-snip-

That works for me

Verdon wrote:1906-1911
OE, Dothrakia, Cheonju, Verdon vs Flandrian Naezeva
**Wherein Verdon enters the conflict for some reason which we could potentially attach to the bold territory 'Southpaw Atoll' that I really really want to control at this point in time. This also means that Verdon is at war while DS is having it's internal struggle - if it were not, Verdon would capitalize on it's rivals weakness**

**Here, a shift needs to be made if the Coalition are to be the ones to declare war. We wouldn't until the Civil War ends, so either the start date needs to be pushed back to 1912, or the Civil War needs to end in 1911. I'm going to suggest the latter, as this changes the least amount of events**

1911
Verdon, OE, Roendavar, Eastern Orsandia, Southern Magarati vs DS, Western Orsandia, Noronnica, Northern Magarati

**There's another issue here. The timeline treats the multiple theaters of combat as if they are different wars. There would be no ceasefire on the Verdonese front if the Oseans continued to fight in Argus. That would not be upholding the alliance.**

-Snipity snip-

PEACE IN OUR TIME


I don't mind the Coalition starting the war, however it cannot be the OE who declares it against Noronica. The Civil War and the war is the fist time since 1470 that the mainland was invaded, so imagine the public shock and fear of the Elerian Empire mere miles to the north and east. The "Great Gael War" is justified as Verdon aided the OE during the Civil War, but to just up and declare war on a longtime ally over an empire past its hayday would have significantly took a heavy toll on the domestic affairs in the homeland as the war would have lead to even worse protest than originally planned and plummet the moral of the OE's troops. This is actually interesting, as it'll lead to the OE capitulating much earlier than the Coalition would hope/need as it dealt with a possible 2nd Civil War.

-edit-
I'd like to add that assuming they wished to join, Dothrakia would be partially called into the "Years War" following the conclusion of my civil war.
"PEACE IN OUR TIME"

*Imperial War peaking through the door*


Athara Magarat wrote: Noronica's candidate would be the clear leader with three votes for him or her. Throughout 1910, Razzgriz's candidate should do his or her best to ensure that there is no majority (8 or more votes for the same candidate), sway the undecideds into his or her side and bribe, threaten, blackmail or even assassinate those supporting other candidates and you know, spread rumors about the other candidate.


Assassination may be too difficult a decision for the OE to choose given the repercussions it would face if caught, however, I definitely see everything else happening, especially since the Razz is definitely going to pull the strings on the strategic martial ties with the various Hangates over the centuries.
Last edited by Razzgriz on Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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