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(OOC, TWI) Bold Territories - Progression

Where nations come together and discuss matters of varying degrees of importance. [In character]

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Corindia
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Founded: May 29, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Corindia » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:26 pm

Athara Magarat wrote:Ummn Van, since Bhum is gone but Pandiya is still over there...I have this proposal.

Let's say a Kachee Caliphate exists on Pandiya now.

Since Moukere and Bhik (those poor refugees) are no more on map, I need some recruiting place for SHOCK and also refugee crisis. So we will have this NPC as an unstable nation run by a corrupt Caliph and his cronies. Due to the rampant corruption and sectarian violence between majority Sunni and minority but dominant Shia, this place is a hellhole and a breeding ground for SHOCK and other terror groups.

So...SHOCK and their Islamist allies try to take over Pandiya and remove the Caliph. The Caliph, who controls the island on the behalf of Athara Magarati government (which has been unable to control the situation there, relying on the Caliph and his cronies who often downplay the situation there), requests aid from AM gov to root out 'terrorist elements' and further proof appears that SHOCK leaders from AM have gone into hiding in this overseas (but so much autonomous and rebellious...which might also explain why only police and Vancouvian soldiers are patrolling AM streets...because most of AM's 20,000 soldiers did be now stationed in Pandiya after SHOCK attacks started in 2016) territory of AM (handed possibly by Noronican Empire or some other empire in 21st Century). The local Kachee (the denonym for the nationality; ethnically they are Khas-Kirats, Aprosians and Ipachis who converted to Islam) are fiercely seeking independence from AM and to become their own country.

Maybe after the AM v Van thing ends, the island nation even becomes an independent Islam republic that mends its ties with AM, Van and other nations of the Isles after much needed mediation. The CU, G4, the League and other organizations could have someone to invest their money for development into.

And historically, the Caliphate could be the nation Christian nations could have called crusades against.

So...it's your call Van. I mean, Pandiya is not being used at all...

Would there be meaningful crusades in TWI? I know that some were called in the 1800's, but nobody really paid them any heed unless they already happened to be at war with the Ottomans. Just how early are christians appearing in TWI anyway?

Of the People, For the People

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Athara Magarat
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Founded: Oct 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Athara Magarat » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:22 pm

Corindia wrote:Would there be meaningful crusades in TWI? I know that some were called in the 1800's, but nobody really paid them any heed unless they already happened to be at war with the Ottomans. Just how early are christians appearing in TWI anyway?

Yes if you want so.

Nations like San Javier had Christianity a lot before in 10th Century (or even earlier like 9th Century) than one might think.

Well, we tried to do that by documenting things and sorting out the history...but it seems we have been mistaken for PTWI group :)
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Corindia
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Founded: May 29, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Corindia » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:54 pm

Athara Magarat wrote:
Corindia wrote:Would there be meaningful crusades in TWI? I know that some were called in the 1800's, but nobody really paid them any heed unless they already happened to be at war with the Ottomans. Just how early are christians appearing in TWI anyway?

Yes if you want so.

Nations like San Javier had Christianity a lot before in 10th Century (or even earlier like 9th Century) than one might think.

Well, we tried to do that by documenting things and sorting out the history...but it seems we have been mistaken for PTWI group :)

No I don't want that because how in the world did Spain get to SJ that early

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Verdon
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Founded: Apr 27, 2015
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Verdon » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:00 pm

Not sure crusades specifically would be appropriate for such a small territory without significant religious relevance.
Now if you want someone to have conquered, exploited, then left in a hurry, putting the wrong majority/minority in power etc., I'm sure someone may be interested in taking on that role.

I am, however, again, going to voice my opinion on the particular religion you've chosen. I'm still concerned about the treatment of Islamic countries in TWI roleplay and I feel like those concerns aren't unfounded, as you're using this place as a terrorist recruiting center - and you've suggested a history of crusade i.e. religious violence. I realize Islam doesn't have the most peaceful of histories, but I think it'd be a shame to have it's only TWI representation be a violent one. Plenty of other religions have sectarian violence if that's what you're aiming for.

If I recall correctly, Taziristan was the last Islamic nation to be involved in RP and weren't they involved in jihad? Our track record so far is not positive.

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Corindia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Corindia » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:29 pm

I'm sort of concerned about the gross historical changes being made to put Christians in TWI wayyyy too early.

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Verdon
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Founded: Apr 27, 2015
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Postby Verdon » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:48 am

Corindia wrote:I'm sort of concerned about the gross historical changes being made to put Christians in TWI wayyyy too early.

You might be concerned, but that's not your decision to make - that's a player choice. We've had plenty of nations with medieval Christians before.

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Corindia
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Founded: May 29, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Corindia » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:40 am

Verdon wrote:
Corindia wrote:I'm sort of concerned about the gross historical changes being made to put Christians in TWI wayyyy too early.

You might be concerned, but that's not your decision to make - that's a player choice. We've had plenty of nations with medieval Christians before.

I'm allowed to protest people not being realistic, especially when it comes down to things that water down the rp environment. Medieval Christians raises far too many questions, notably how they were able to completely disappear from christendom's radar for several centuries, unless we want to give the Christian world knowledge of everything between Europe and twi much too early, which ruins colonization and discovery for anyone having it happen at a reasonable time.

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Verdon
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Postby Verdon » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:14 pm

Corindia wrote:
Verdon wrote:You might be concerned, but that's not your decision to make - that's a player choice. We've had plenty of nations with medieval Christians before.

I'm allowed to protest people not being realistic, especially when it comes down to things that water down the rp environment. Medieval Christians raises far too many questions, notably how they were able to completely disappear from christendom's radar for several centuries, unless we want to give the Christian world knowledge of everything between Europe and twi much too early, which ruins colonization and discovery for anyone having it happen at a reasonable time.


You can protest, but you can't force a change. There are plenty of things about nations in this region that aren't truly realistic about their histories. If we run on the same assumptions that you are, the bronze age shouldn't arrive in TWI until 0 CE or later and many other technologies would need to have arrived far later, certain empires shouldn't have existed, certain cultural migrations would have been improbably if not impossible. You should be ignoring these people's histories rather than trying to change them.

This is off topic.

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Bhikkustan
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Bhikkustan » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:43 pm

Pandiya could always be the Taiwan for the government in exile if we want to make that storyline more intense.
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Ainslie
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Founded: Jun 15, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ainslie » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:22 pm

So, Keverai...

More threads and RPs will be coming up related to this concept soon - I'm still planning many aspects, but the overview factbook is here:
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=sca ... ok/id=main
Last edited by Ainslie on Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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If you're in The Western Isles, take a look at this to get involved with my nation IC
"Aprosia and Townside: hey, let's do history and culture, things that affect many aspects of our nations
ainslie: hehe alarm go brrrrr"

- Aprosia, 2021

"Ains had a panic attack. His centrism was in danger"
- Domanania, 2019

"Ahnslen gitmo - instead of waterboarding, they torture inmates by making them read scholalry works on political centrism
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Athara Magarat
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Founded: Oct 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Athara Magarat » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:44 pm

Bhikkustan wrote:Pandiya could always be the Taiwan for the government in exile if we want to make that storyline more intense.

Yes. There are four islands in Pandiya.

One of the islands has already been cleared of settlement for (future) research complexes, military bases, etc. Another island being cleared of the local Kachee population to make way for the Khang's gov-in-exile would be the last straw and heat things up :)
Proud Member of the The Western Isles.




Please read my dispatches regarding the context of the symbol on the flag.

What the symbol really is...

What my flag stands for...

And my IC constitution

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Athara Magarat
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Founded: Oct 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Athara Magarat » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:45 am

Alright everyone! The NPC is completed except for editable history and minor stuff.

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=ath ... /id=806830
Proud Member of the The Western Isles.




Please read my dispatches regarding the context of the symbol on the flag.

What the symbol really is...

What my flag stands for...

And my IC constitution

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Verdon
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Founded: Apr 27, 2015
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Verdon » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:38 am

Ainslie wrote:So, Keverai...

More threads and RPs will be coming up related to this concept soon - I'm still planning many aspects, but the overview factbook is here:
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=sca ... ok/id=main


I'd change the location. Cutting chunks out of the main land masses makes them less accessible to new players. Since Arvan was created, no one has inhabited the space to the south of it. I'd suggest the island south of samudera, northwest of corindia

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Ostehaar
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Founded: Jul 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ostehaar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:52 am

Verdon wrote:Since Arvan was created, no one has inhabited the space to the south of it.

There's someone who wants to. I don't remember the name. Perhaps it's Dormill.

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Ainslie
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ainslie » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:09 pm

Yeah - it's Dormill.
The Unified Electorates of Ainslie
Discord gdayer and weather alarm man.
If you're in The Western Isles, take a look at this to get involved with my nation IC
"Aprosia and Townside: hey, let's do history and culture, things that affect many aspects of our nations
ainslie: hehe alarm go brrrrr"

- Aprosia, 2021

"Ains had a panic attack. His centrism was in danger"
- Domanania, 2019

"Ahnslen gitmo - instead of waterboarding, they torture inmates by making them read scholalry works on political centrism
- Orsandia, 2018

"Factbooks are never finished, as Ains would say"
- Torom, 2018

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Verona Beach
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Founded: May 22, 2017
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Verona Beach » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:04 pm

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=873703

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Noronica
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noronica » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:15 pm


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Verdon
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Founded: Apr 27, 2015
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Postby Verdon » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:36 pm


So, you want to make !hitler.
I think it's a novel idea, but I don't like the idea of having a very large npc on the map. If it was off-map, say just to the south of the region - would be able to have it interact with TWI without crowding space. Would also be willing to provide a map for this.

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Verdon
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Postby Verdon » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:37 pm

That way you could also make it truly massive. Like, all of Gael-sized, even more if you're trying to fashion it as a 'great evil'

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Noronica
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Founded: Dec 11, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noronica » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:03 pm

I'm afraid it would have to be an NPC on the map as I'm not sure people would be willing to RP 'off-map'. I can make the area smaller, but the reason for my original size was that it allowed space to partition for the various parties that might be involved.

I don't think I want a great evil, more a failed or aggressive state that goes too far causing an international response. If it was a great evil then the response would be united, but I want this war to deteriorate into separate divisions to allow the partition of territories between sides. Yes, the situation would hopefully become likened to East-West Germany or the Koreas, but I don't think a regional Hitler would be very realistic.

I'll see what I can do about the size of the NPC.

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Ainslie
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Founded: Jun 15, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ainslie » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:12 pm

Yeah - I'm not a fan of the large NPC idea either and it would be inconvenient for Van to be updating it frequently with the different borders. Maybe working into existing bolded territories might reap some good rewards. Asking Polar about this in relation to the Wake Islands would be a good place to start - he's been looking for some more RP action there, and the generally large NPC with many Islands may be helpful for what you envision.
Last edited by Ainslie on Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Unified Electorates of Ainslie
Discord gdayer and weather alarm man.
If you're in The Western Isles, take a look at this to get involved with my nation IC
"Aprosia and Townside: hey, let's do history and culture, things that affect many aspects of our nations
ainslie: hehe alarm go brrrrr"

- Aprosia, 2021

"Ains had a panic attack. His centrism was in danger"
- Domanania, 2019

"Ahnslen gitmo - instead of waterboarding, they torture inmates by making them read scholalry works on political centrism
- Orsandia, 2018

"Factbooks are never finished, as Ains would say"
- Torom, 2018

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Ostehaar
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Posts: 1776
Founded: Jul 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ostehaar » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:24 pm

I'd actually support a large NPC in the middle of the map - sort of "the dark counterpart of the ID" - that could be used for a variety of RPs, this one included.

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Athara Magarat
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Founded: Oct 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Athara Magarat » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:48 pm

One for MSTO, one for C6, one for EUSR, one for ISDP, one for CFN, one for....

We will have a Republic, a Democratic Republic, a People's Republic, a Kingdom, and whatnot?

Time for the great Balkanization. I bet Noronica has already started a factbook on this.
Proud Member of the The Western Isles.




Please read my dispatches regarding the context of the symbol on the flag.

What the symbol really is...

What my flag stands for...

And my IC constitution

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Verdon
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Posts: 676
Founded: Apr 27, 2015
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Verdon » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:58 pm

Okay, seems I missed the intent then, but just to indulge myself...

Noronica wrote:I'm not sure people would be willing to RP 'off-map'.

Nonsense. Create a space to plant a flag, you will certainly get takers.
Noronica wrote:I don't think I want a great evil, more a failed or aggressive state that goes too far causing an international response. If it was a great evil then the response would be united, but I want this war to deteriorate into separate divisions to allow the partition of territories between sides.

state goes too far - causes international response - not the bad guy?
There wouldn't be partition without occupation. Which means whichever sides causing the division would have simultaneously been acting against/to stabilize the failed-state. You wouldn't consider that a united response? It's the aftermath - how to deal with the remains, which causes the division - not the initial action. At least in the case of Germany and Korea.

Ainslie wrote: it would be inconvenient for Van to be updating it frequently with the different borders.

Oh you mean that thing he does every week?
Ainslie wrote:Maybe working into existing bolded territories might reap some good rewards. Asking Polar about this in relation to the Wake Islands would be a good place to start

This is a good idea - recycling some of the unused territories is definitely in order.

Ostehaar wrote:I'd actually support a large NPC in the middle of the map

Where though? Today's update has the map pretty full as far as Argus is concerned.
Which of course is my main concern about npcs - taking up space that could otherwise be used by new players.

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Noronica
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Founded: Dec 11, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Noronica » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:43 am

Ainslie wrote:Yeah - I'm not a fan of the large NPC idea either and it would be inconvenient for Van to be updating it frequently with the different borders. Maybe working into existing bolded territories might reap some good rewards. Asking Polar about this in relation to the Wake Islands would be a good place to start - he's been looking for some more RP action there, and the generally large NPC with many Islands may be helpful for what you envision.

The only issue with the use of existing territories is that most already have established RP’s and they are small compared to what the original idea was. This also wouldn’t allow for new ideas as there has already been an established storyline for said territory.
Ostehaar wrote:I'd actually support a large NPC in the middle of the map - sort of "the dark counterpart of the ID" - that could be used for a variety of RPs, this one included.

That’s the idea. This would allow for huge regional contribution as borders will be changing and nations will be able to use the NPC as a place for conflict with border disputes and intelligence activities for other sides.
Athara Magarat wrote:One for MSTO, one for C6, one for EUSR, one for ISDP, one for CFN, one for....

We will have a Republic, a Democratic Republic, a People's Republic, a Kingdom, and whatnot?

Time for the great Balkanization. I bet Noronica has already started a factbook on this.

Something like that, less kingdom though. As I said, we are looking for a situation like Korea or the divided Germany’s.
Verdon wrote:Okay, seems I missed the intent then, but just to indulge myself...

Nonsense. Create a space to plant a flag, you will certainly get takers.

But then some of the region don’t like the idea of using things outside the map as it has connotation with the ‘outside’ world. I don’t want to spark a world debate.

Verdon wrote:state goes too far - causes international response - not the bad guy?
There wouldn't be partition without occupation. Which means whichever sides causing the division would have simultaneously been acting against/to stabilize the failed-state. You wouldn't consider that a united response? It's the aftermath - how to deal with the remains, which causes the division - not the initial action. At least in the case of Germany and Korea.

As in - not Hitler. I agree with what you said for the most part, I just don’t want to create someone ‘evil’. Hitler is something that I don’t think the region would want to have.

By what I said, I mean that there will be separate sides trying to gain control of territory. They may be working together publicly, but everyone wants a bigger piece of the pie. Also, some may support the existing government and want to control the territory with the existing government.
Verdon wrote:This is a good idea - recycling some of the unused territories is definitely in order.

As I said, there will be some issues with size and established storylines.
Verdon wrote:Where though? Today's update has the map pretty full as far as Argus is concerned.
Which of course is my main concern about npcs - taking up space that could otherwise be used by new players.

Yet the map is never totally full, and this proposed RP would bring new players and old into this with it being a large international intervention.

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