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(OOC, TWI) Bold Territories - Progression

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Vancouvia
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Founded: Sep 19, 2014
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Postby Vancouvia » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:17 pm

Map's edited. Removed all territories I didn't get a factbook/thread for now one month after the deadline. Also during some discussion it was talked about how putting more (very small) bold territories on the map could actually open up some RP opportunities and makes things a bit more realistic. I agree with that notion; I think it is very poor how a bold territory hasn't ever really changed hands to my knowledge when that was a central point of them. To that end I have added the below small territories on a very temporary basis just to start some ideas flowing.

To clarify, these territories are still bold territories in that they should have a factbook and manager of that factbook. The difference between these and larger existing territories is that their population should be very small or non-existent, their factbooks don't necessarily have to be up to par with what's existing for the larger ones (they can be shorter but we still need basic information), they are meant to change hands frequently and therefore need to be in a position to do so, and most of them can serve as good secondary war zones for large conflicts.

So here's what I've added and a short off the top of my head idea for a few:

Southpaw Atoll - nothing but seagulls and seagull poop - that is, until the discovery of oil in its outlying sea in early 2019

McHenry's Port - abandoned by the English during the 1800s, the island's guard chose to stay and make a nation of themselves

Sawneeak Atoll

Panko - native vibe. Maybe like that island in the Indian Ocean which didn't experience western contact until the last century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese

Sunset Isle

The Spurs - rocky outposts with harsh winds led to the capsizing of many vessels over the centuries, ushering on tales of sunken treasure

San Leon - colonized and quickly abandoned by the Spanish centuries ago

Mesderina - the namesake of Mesder - one of the first populated islands in the western isles, and a haven for wildlife found nowhere else

The Oasis - a lush city-state with loose laws and even looser lips, the Oasis has been a gambling paradise since the 1940s

Black Isle - so named for its active volcanic ground, it has become a "hot" vacation spot for those risky enough to attempt a visit

Preselima

Monte Isle - former prison colony, now abandoned, notable for its massive empty prison complex that still haunts the snow

Central Canal Authority - placeholder until decision made on what to do with the canal



Q: Who owns these islands?
A: No one at this point. They may be handed out to people who come up with the best use and ideas for them.

Q: Are these it? Or, why'd you add some many?
A: Some may deleted, some may be added. I tried to throw an assortment in. They can be renamed or re-positioned.

Q: Won't this just lead to obsessive land-grabbing?
A: Hopefully not. The thing that stopped this before was requirements for a factbook and my discretion. The latter will remain, the former will be replaced by the fact that these must be changing hands regularly. If not, they'll be removed. No hogging the road. And I mean it. I'm not afraid to delete these and force retcons if they look that way.

Happy to take any questions and suggestions as we evolve this further. Thanks
Last edited by Vancouvia on Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Verdon
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Postby Verdon » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:51 pm

The one you've labelled 'Gresswell Island' I've had my eyes on for a year. I always thought it could be good for some sort of polar expedition RP as well as being set up as a
potentially League-sanctioned weather station and eventual seed bank so that it would still have a universal function when there isn't an active RP there.

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Vancouvia
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Vancouvia » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:54 pm

Verdon wrote:The one you've labelled 'Gresswell Island' I've had my eyes on for a year. I always thought it could be good for some sort of polar expedition RP as well as being set up as a
potentially League-sanctioned weather station and eventual seed bank so that it would still have a universal function when there isn't an active RP there.


Ainslie requested that - he will be making a "large" bold territory there in the same vein; I'm sure you could go in on that way with him

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Ainslie
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Postby Ainslie » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:57 pm

Verdon wrote:The one you've labelled 'Gresswell Island' I've had my eyes on for a year. I always thought it could be good for some sort of polar expedition RP as well as being set up as a
potentially League-sanctioned weather station and eventual seed bank so that it would still have a universal function when there isn't an active RP there.

Weather station was what i had in mind. Polar expedition im happy with. It's mainly going to be an island for the sciences, with a small primitive utilitarian population. Seedbank sounds cool as well.
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If you're in The Western Isles, take a look at this to get involved with my nation IC
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ainslie: hehe alarm go brrrrr"

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Verdon
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Postby Verdon » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:08 pm

Ainslie wrote:Weather station was what i had in mind. Polar expedition im happy with. It's mainly going to be an island for the sciences, with a small primitive utilitarian population. Seedbank sounds cool as well.

Okay, so pretty much exactly the same idea.

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Corindia
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Postby Corindia » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:14 pm

Vancouvia wrote:Map's edited. Removed all territories I didn't get a factbook/thread for now one month after the deadline. Also during some discussion it was talked about how putting more (very small) bold territories on the map could actually open up some RP opportunities and makes things a bit more realistic. I agree with that notion; I think it is very poor how a bold territory hasn't ever really changed hands to my knowledge when that was a central point of them. To that end I have added the below small territories on a very temporary basis just to start some ideas flowing.

To clarify, these territories are still bold territories in that they should have a factbook and manager of that factbook. The difference between these and larger existing territories is that their population should be very small or non-existent, their factbooks don't necessarily have to be up to par with what's existing for the larger ones (they can be shorter but we still need basic information), they are meant to change hands frequently and therefore need to be in a position to do so, and most of them can serve as good secondary war zones for large conflicts.

So here's what I've added and a short off the top of my head idea for a few:

Southpaw Atoll - nothing but seagulls and seagull poop - that is, until the discovery of oil in its outlying sea in early 2019

McHenry's Port - abandoned by the English during the 1800s, the island's guard chose to stay and make a nation of themselves

Sawneeak Atoll

Panko - native vibe. Maybe like that island in the Indian Ocean which didn't experience western contact until the last century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese

Sunset Isle

The Spurs - rocky outposts with harsh winds led to the capsizing of many vessels over the centuries, ushering on tales of sunken treasure

San Leon - colonized and quickly abandoned by the Spanish centuries ago

Mesderina - the namesake of Mesder - one of the first populated islands in the western isles, and a haven for wildlife found nowhere else

The Oasis - a lush city-state with loose laws and even looser lips, the Oasis has been a gambling paradise since the 1940s

Black Isle - so named for its active volcanic ground, it has become a "hot" vacation spot for those risky enough to attempt a visit

Preselima

Monte Isle - former prison colony, now abandoned, notable for its massive empty prison complex that still haunts the snow

Central Canal Authority - placeholder until decision made on what to do with the canal



Q: Who owns these islands?
A: No one at this point. They may be handed out to people who come up with the best use and ideas for them.

Q: Are these it? Or, why'd you add some many?
A: Some may deleted, some may be added. I tried to throw an assortment in. They can be renamed or re-positioned.

Q: Won't this just lead to obsessive land-grabbing?
A: Hopefully not. The thing that stopped this before was requirements for a factbook and my discretion. The latter will remain, the former will be replaced by the fact that these must be changing hands regularly. If not, they'll be removed. No hogging the road. And I mean it. I'm not afraid to delete these and force retcons if they look that way.

Happy to take any questions and suggestions as we evolve this further. Thanks

Oh this is fun, I like this

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Ainslie
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Postby Ainslie » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:19 pm

Verdon wrote:
Ainslie wrote:Weather station was what i had in mind. Polar expedition im happy with. It's mainly going to be an island for the sciences, with a small primitive utilitarian population. Seedbank sounds cool as well.

Okay, so pretty much exactly the same idea.

Yep
The Unified Electorates of Ainslie
Discord gdayer and weather alarm man.
If you're in The Western Isles, take a look at this to get involved with my nation IC
"Aprosia and Townside: hey, let's do history and culture, things that affect many aspects of our nations
ainslie: hehe alarm go brrrrr"

- Aprosia, 2021

"Ains had a panic attack. His centrism was in danger"
- Domanania, 2019

"Ahnslen gitmo - instead of waterboarding, they torture inmates by making them read scholalry works on political centrism
- Orsandia, 2018

"Factbooks are never finished, as Ains would say"
- Torom, 2018

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Corindia
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Founded: May 29, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Corindia » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:48 pm

I might be interesting in trying to nab Southpaw Atoll, both for the oil and for military applications

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Vancouvia
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Founded: Sep 19, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Vancouvia » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:57 pm

Corindia wrote:I might be interesting in trying to nab Southpaw Atoll, both for the oil and for military applications


Woah woah woah hang on, what oil?

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Corindia
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Postby Corindia » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:58 pm

Vancouvia wrote:
Corindia wrote:I might be interesting in trying to nab Southpaw Atoll, both for the oil and for military applications


Woah woah woah hang on, what oil?

I mean I can wait a year for the oil part

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Athara Magarat
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Postby Athara Magarat » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:28 am

Oh...Nice additions. Love them all.
Last edited by Athara Magarat on Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Atnaia
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Postby Atnaia » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:08 am

Monte Isle sounds like the sort of place Atnaia would have established at some point.
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Negarakita
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Postby Negarakita » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:00 pm

Wouldn't mind doing some small development for the Saweanak atoll because it would likely be part of the Torangese culture me and Samu are working out.
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Syrussia
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Postby Syrussia » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:01 pm

Sunset Isles. Syrussia is claiming it as part of its territory since 1845. Historical documents reference the 'East Syrussia Company' had a trade port located on that isle. Today Syrussia are keen to establish an overseas outpost but are hiding that plan with the reformation of the East Syrussia Company and it's trading hub. A small colony is also planned to harvest the fish and resources that are thought to cover the isle.
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Vancouvia
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Postby Vancouvia » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:03 pm

Syrussia wrote:Sunset Isles. Syrussia is claiming it as part of its territory since 1845. Historical documents reference the 'East Syrussia Company' had a trade port located on that isle. Today Syrussia are keen to establish an overseas outpost but are hiding that plan with the reformation of the East Syrussia Company and it's trading hub. A small colony is also planned to harvest the fish and resources that are thought to cover the isle.


Not how this works. You propose a suitable idea, it garners interest, then it's accepted.

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Syrussia
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Postby Syrussia » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:09 pm

Vancouvia wrote:Not how this works. You propose a suitable idea, it garners interest, then it's accepted.


An idea myself and Polar Svalbard came up with.......

I was thinking we could do a Falklands Isles type thing where that Island was left over from the times of Svalbardian Empire. Syrussia has claims to it, and decides to send Polar Svalbard an ultimatum. Polar Svalbard obviously denies the ultimatum. Syrussia invades and a Svalbardian fleet has to be sent down to deal with this. During this we could have a large debate in the League. While this all goes on, Syrussian forces are digging in tight.

When the Svalbardian Fleet gets there, Polar Svalbard would have control of the seas and the air. We could establish this with a few Syrussian planes being shot down and maybe a ship sunk, or at least Syrussia fleet retreats when faced by the might of the First Fleet, possibly with elements of the Second Fleet. The problem for Polar Svalbard could be that Syrussian forces are dug in too tight and two amphibious assaults result in devastating losses for Polar Svalbard.

Obstensively that would be a loss for Polar Svalbard and we'd have to decide what happens with the Islands, does the League step in and make both of us vacate the Islands, does Syrussia get full control over them? We'd have to decide that.

Cool things for this will be that we are not only antagonistic towards each other in the present but also in the past. Establishes some history. Its a small enough conflict not to get too out of hand or result in too many losses, but if we do it right in the League this could be quite interesting.
Last edited by Syrussia on Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Polar Svalbard
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Postby Polar Svalbard » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:31 pm

Adding onto this, I'd really like to see the League get involved in this conflict and its one of the things that makes me most interested in it.

We could also see this island be changing hands with other nations, or a MSTO reinvasion. Maybe if the MSTO v C6 thing ever gets started, this becomes a strategic point. Who knows, RP here could go for awhile. But its a unique RP that can hopefully have wide reaching effects into the news and the League. This would be less about war and more the diplomacy of it.
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Verdon
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Postby Verdon » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:29 am

Syrussia has 'claims' on it is a really vague premise and not likely to earn you any support. I'm having a hard time seeing this not devolve into a many vs. one situation. What exactly would the debate in the league be about? I think you should explain a bit more of what your idea is.

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Corindia
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Postby Corindia » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:35 am

Verdon wrote:Syrussia has 'claims' on it is a really vague premise

about as vague as Argentina's premise for war over the Falklands tbh

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Polar Svalbard
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Postby Polar Svalbard » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:41 am

Corindi a has got the right idea, and no it won't turn into many vs one as, at least I, have to see what Strussia says, would like the main part to just be between us.

I at least am hoping that there can be a League mediated peace, although one that has holes in it which might lead to later wars.

This in this situation it should be a war that is small enough that no alliances need to get involved, but people can react in the news and we can hammer out a diplomatic RP in the League.

Nonetheless, there doesn't seem like much going on in terms of RP with these islands, so we might as well get the ball rolling with a nice RP that gives us a quality RP we can make, allows us to delve more into the colonial time period for both our histories to add some more backstory, and it gives the League a bit more meat as it is able to negotiate a peace treaty.
Last edited by Polar Svalbard on Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Syrussia
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Postby Syrussia » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:47 am

Syrussia sees Sunset Isles as part of its sovereign territory. (much like Argentina/Falklands) given its geographical location to Syrussia and history with the East Syrussian Company using it as an outpost in the 1700/1800's. Ultimately Syrussia wants to officially reclaim it most likely to use it as a military outpost to strengthen it's territory. Given that is neighbour Cheveque has threatened Syrussia.
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Polar Svalbard
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Postby Polar Svalbard » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:50 am

Which could lead to more opportunities in the future, rhat could lead into bigger wars. Or there could be the economic development of the Island, or, quite likely, espionage RPs.
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Verdon
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Postby Verdon » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:32 pm

Okay. The problem still exists that if Syrussia attacks Polar with as flimsy a reason as 'we were there 300 years ago', you're not going to get a rich debate from the League. Most everybody will be on the side of the defender, in this case Polar, and the conflict will be seen as irrational. The debate over what to do with the island will be real short: Polar has it, Polar keeps it. and maybe some sort of concession granting.

I do like this concept, and I can already think of some interesting outcomes - perhaps even a Cyprus sort of situation, but you need a better reason for Syrussian claims on the island, otherwise the mediation will be one-sided. I have some ideas, but I'd like to see what you think of first.

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Syrussia
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Postby Syrussia » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:37 pm

What if Polar Svalbard landed forces on the island, capturing Syrussian archaeological workers trying to find evidence of a Syrussian claim to the island.
Last edited by Syrussia on Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Verdon
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Postby Verdon » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:53 pm

Syrussia wrote:What if Polar Svalbard landed forces on the island, capturing Syrussian archaeological workers trying to find evidence of a Syrussian claim to the island.

You could use that as a bit of propaganda to sway public opinion, but you're still running into the same problem: 'Claims' don't really justify war anymore. There's a saying that goes 'Possession is nine-tenths of the law', and since Polar currently occupies the island, this is what you have to beat. I think you should work a more human angle. Perhaps the ethnic majority in the territory is Syrussian. Perhaps the Svalbardians are using it for less pure purposes, like storing nuclear and chemical waste.

You need a couple of things to balance out 1. Polar currently owning the territory, 2. You being the aggressor, in order to create an even debate in the league.

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