Maroon Revolution [DIPLOMATIC|MT+|SEMI-OPEN|OOC]

[Inyourfaceistan]

Well since it appears Ardoki is rejecting the IFC and IFC soldiers should we bring this back to the other thread now?

I mean to be fair his options were embrace the IFC or war with SACTO et al...

[Organized States]

Well since it appears Ardoki is rejecting the IFC and IFC soldiers should we bring this back to the other thread now?

I mean to be fair his options were embrace the IFC or war with SACTO et al...

Or war with both.

[New Aeyariss]

Well since it appears Ardoki is rejecting the IFC and IFC soldiers should we bring this back to the other thread now?

I mean to be fair his options were embrace the IFC or war with SACTO et al...

Yeah. Let the Imperial Nihonese Army begin Operation; Aanglandia.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Well since it appears Ardoki is rejecting the IFC and IFC soldiers should we bring this back to the other thread now?

I mean to be fair his options were embrace the IFC or war with SACTO et al...

Or war with both.

"Hmmm... The IFC is the one thing that might maybe stand in the way of SACTO long enough to save me...
Better piss off the IFC!"

[Guadalupador]

I know my post isn't much, but I hope it'll suffice.

[Ardoki]

I may trust the IFC OOCly; however the majority of our government, civil service, and military don't trust the IFC, while the vast majority of our population will not trust the IFC for the foreseeable future. There are prominent political realities at play, and interfering with our government or occupying Ardoki will only cause incredibly hostile reactions.

Hostile reactions are understandable. However, they don't dominate the political reality of the rest of the IFC.

Our government is bitterly divided over the IFC, the President's view is in the minority and his position is under threat even prior to the election. The state intelligence/security agencies in addition to the military will not give up their power willingly, they don't trust the IFC and believe they are trying to stage a coup to occupy and subjugate Ardoki. Our people still believe a lot of the propaganda they've been fed for decades, they don't trust the IFC and the humiliating demands it is trying to force on them only confirms their worst fears.

Our government is far more concerned with maintaining support and power in Ardoki at the moment. It shouldn't have to worry about a revolution, but the threat of a leadership change is ever present. The IFC's demands are incredibly unrealistic, and are of a far lower priority than all the stuff it is dealing with at the moment.

The IFC should trust us; in fact, it must trust us. If you trust our government, we might successfully reform and respect human rights, we might not (truth be told, I actually do intend to respect human rights in Ardoki now). However, if you don't trust us, we aren't going to be able to reform even nearly as successful as we would with support.

Of course, it's the IFC's choice. I don't mind either way, the politics is interesting in both scenarios; however, you'll have to take responsibility for the repercussions of your choice.

[Guadalupador]

Can I ask you, how are any of the IFC's demands highly unrealistic?

[Ardoki]

Can I ask you, how are any of the IFC's demands highly unrealistic?

Short answer: Our government would never agree to them, nor would our people.

[New Aeyariss]

There is no physical documentation of all the crimes, that was all destroyed a long time ago. You'd be pressed to find concrete evidence linking Moriarty and O'Brien to any of the crimes directly, it will all have to be circumstantial.

On the contrary. Even on modern courts most is done by witnesses's testimonies - and that would be easy to obtain. Not to mention that Moriarty and O`Brien would sing very quickly about everything - maybe IFC lacks as good interrogators as Nihonese have, but OS uses... similar methods. So I think that Moriarty and O`Brien would quickly sing all they done...

Prison is not meant to be fun after all.....

So, we'll probably have to guess who could have possibly been involved and sent them to the international tribunal. Most would probably be innocent, but the IFC might get lucky and get a few confessions.

Quick investigation should reveal a lot - especially once proper investigators reached Ardoki south...

[New Chilokver]

*tank crashes through back wall*

Totally not a tag.

[Shazbotdom]

Not to mention that there has been trial of Moriarty and his crony, but what about the rest?

There were thousands that carried his orders...

There is no physical documentation of all the crimes, that was all destroyed a long time ago. You'd be pressed to find concrete evidence linking Moriarty and O'Brien to any of the crimes directly, it will all have to be circumstantial.

So, we'll probably have to guess who could have possibly been involved and sent them to the international tribunal. Most would probably be innocent, but the IFC might get lucky and get a few confessions.

So what you are saying is that there is little to no way to convict them and that your plan all along was to have them go off scot free? Nice to know that your government is not willing to do what it takes to look good to the International Community and that this is all a load of bullshit that your Government cooked up to try and look good.

[New Chilokver]

There is no physical documentation of all the crimes, that was all destroyed a long time ago. You'd be pressed to find concrete evidence linking Moriarty and O'Brien to any of the crimes directly, it will all have to be circumstantial.

So, we'll probably have to guess who could have possibly been involved and sent them to the international tribunal. Most would probably be innocent, but the IFC might get lucky and get a few confessions.

So what you are saying is that there is little to no way to convict them and that your plan all along was to have them go off scot free? Nice to know that your government is not willing to do what it takes to look good to the International Community and that this is all a load of bullshit that your Government cooked up to try and look good.

On the contrary. Even on modern courts most is done by witnesses's testimonies - and that would be easy to obtain. Not to mention that Moriarty and O`Brien would sing very quickly about everything - maybe IFC lacks as good interrogators as Nihonese have, but OS uses... similar methods. So I think that Moriarty and O`Brien would quickly sing all they done...

[Ardoki]

Our government might agree to a 'peacekeeping force' being present in Ardoki.

That would mean no heavy weaponry (e.g. artillery, armoured vehicles, fighter/attack aircraft, warships, etcetera), only light weapons and armour would be permitted. The numbers would also have to be reduced significantly (no more than two divisions in total), and they would be distributed around Ardoki (they would not be allowed anywhere near our capital). They would also be under close Ardokian supervision, and would have to respect our requests otherwise they would be quickly deported.

I'm only making this because you seem to have already gone ahead and written arrival posts; however, this is my absolute final compromise. Take it or leave it.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Can I ask you, how are any of the IFC's demands highly unrealistic?

Which is ironic considering the demands Nihon, myself and the rest are pushing for are like 3x as bad as the IFC's slap on the wrist...

[New Chilokver]

What has been done to date to prevent war criminals from Moriarty's regime from escaping the country?

[New Aeyariss]

Our government might agree to a 'peacekeeping force' being present in Ardoki.

That would mean no heavy weaponry (e.g. artillery, armoured vehicles, fighter/attack aircraft, warships, etcetera), only light weapons and armour would be permitted. The numbers would also have to be reduced significantly (no more than two divisions in total), and they would be distributed around Ardoki (they would not be allowed anywhere near our capital). They would also be under close Ardokian supervision, and would have to respect our requests otherwise they would be quickly deported.

I'm only making this because you seem to have already gone ahead and written arrival posts; however, this is my absolute final compromise. Take it or leave it.

Problem is that your government agreed on this kind of deployment before; and now they are in with heavy weaponry.

I kind of get a feeling OS military won't go. For them it is already an occupation .

[Guadalupador]

Can I ask you, how are any of the IFC's demands highly unrealistic?

Which is ironic considering the demands Nihon, myself and the rest are pushing for are like 3x as bad as the IFC's slap on the wrist...

Exactly. The IFC demands are quite the sweet deal compared to SACTO.

[New Aeyariss]

What has been done to date to prevent war criminals from Moriarty's regime from escaping the country?

From what I seen? No arrests have even been made, not to mention Alistaire Moriarty going on WorldVision.

[Ardoki]

Our government might agree to a 'peacekeeping force' being present in Ardoki.

That would mean no heavy weaponry (e.g. artillery, armoured vehicles, fighter/attack aircraft, warships, etcetera), only light weapons and armour would be permitted. The numbers would also have to be reduced significantly (no more than two divisions in total), and they would be distributed around Ardoki (they would not be allowed anywhere near our capital). They would also be under close Ardokian supervision, and would have to respect our requests otherwise they would be quickly deported.

I'm only making this because you seem to have already gone ahead and written arrival posts; however, this is my absolute final compromise. Take it or leave it.

Problem is that your government agreed on this kind of deployment before; and now they are in with heavy weaponry.

I kind of get a feeling OS military won't go. For them it is already an occupation .

I did request several times that my government be given the opportunity to negotiate the terms of the IFC forces; however, I never got a response. Realistically, those IFC forces would never have been given permission to land in Ardoki (nor was my government ever even notified about their impending arrival).

[Ardoki]

Which is ironic considering the demands Nihon, myself and the rest are pushing for are like 3x as bad as the IFC's slap on the wrist...

Exactly. The IFC demands are quite the sweet deal compared to SACTO.

Murdering a thousand people seems very moderate when compared to murdering a million people; however, that doesn't make it good or nice.

Just because the SACTO demands are a lot more unrealistic than the IFC demands, does not make the IFC demands even slightly realistic.

[Organized States]

Problem is that your government agreed on this kind of deployment before; and now they are in with heavy weaponry.

I kind of get a feeling OS military won't go. For them it is already an occupation .

I did request several times that my government be given the opportunity to negotiate the terms of the IFC forces; however, I never got a response. Realistically, those IFC forces would never have been given permission to land in Ardoki (nor was my government ever even notified about their impending arrival).

We agreed to my arrival a while back and was not informed of any change to that plan.

[Guadalupador]

I did request several times that my government be given the opportunity to negotiate the terms of the IFC forces; however, I never got a response. Realistically, those IFC forces would never have been given permission to land in Ardoki (nor was my government ever even notified about their impending arrival).

We agreed to my arrival a while back and was not informed of any change to that plan.

Same. Did that last night.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Just because the SACTO demands are a lot more unrealistic than the IFC demands, does not make the IFC demands even slightly realistic.

What's unrealistic about the 2003 Invasion of Iraq?

[Ardoki]

I did say it several times on this OOC thread. Yet no one really acknowledged those requests, so I didn't have the chance to actually begin the conversation.

Exactly. Plus IFC forces might interfere with the Ardokian elections and other stuff.

It would be easier for everyone if you just ejected them.

There is no doubt about my acceptance of their investigators and monitors, that was what I agreed to when I was invited to join the IFC. My government will negotiate about the other stuff though.

Well maybe they can just talk now?

Your post is fine.

My government is just not ready to let IFC forces into our country yet, especially without our demands being agreed to. Plus I still don't know the equipment they have, and I might request the force be significantly reduced to no more than a couple divisions at most (it is nothing more than symbolic, you really don't need such large forces).

I strongly recommend Prince Kapzia and an IFC delegation meet with our government prior to any of your officials and military forces arriving. Our government will need to make some things very clear, before anything can proceed.

I strongly recommend Prince Kapzia and an IFC delegation meet with our government prior to any of your officials and military forces arriving. Our government will need to make some things very clear, before anything can proceed.

We'll have to discuss the conditions and regulations concerning IFC forces in Ardoki.

EDIT: My government would be very unlikely to accept more than 500,000 IFC personnel in Ardoki (this includes civilians, soldiers, and police, etcetera) due to domestic political realities. Also, it should be clear that any such personnel are guests who shall respect Ardokian sovereignty and the authority of our government.

Thanks.

[New Aeyariss]

Murdering a thousand people seems very moderate when compared to murdering a million people; however, that doesn't make it good or nice.

Just because the SACTO demands are a lot more unrealistic than the IFC demands, does not make the IFC demands even slightly realistic.

There is a reason why I chose ruling "No WMDs" In my thread... ha ha ha!

Not to mention that if Nihon comes... it will not be under Nihonese flag. "Proxying" exists for a reason.

Also Ardoki, you already have OS occupation force in, so perhaps you realize your words and go after them?