Maroon Revolution [DIPLOMATIC|MT+|SEMI-OPEN|OOC]

[Lamoni]

Well, no one appreciates you sarcasm remarks. If you're so busy may I suggest that you could just kindly list out your so called references to your so called 'evidence' for the issues at hand so that the excellent researchers here can do our own investigation?

Otherwise, cut the arguing is another suggestion of mine.

There, finally, I am giving my 2cents.

Peace, kids.

As usual, Aeyariss here hit the nail right on the head. Show us the evidence (actual academic or military papers on the subject), or stop using the design.

[Asigna]

Actually I was stalking Asigna's post and happened to stumbled upon this festival of excrement and fun. But you're right, you dont need me to make things worst.

Knock yourself out kids.

I get why but there might be other reasons. Do you have the willingness to join the Asigna fan club?

[Inyourfaceistan]

Repetition, on the other hand, is stupid. You go round and round in circles. It's like a merry-go-round, and now you're on it too.

So now you're blaming all of us because every arguement with you becomes circular?

You imply use of PMT starship > we claim it's unrealistic, ask for evidence/citation > you find excuse for not needing evidence > we use lack of evidence to imply that it is unproven and therefore unrealistic > you resort to red herrings and ad-hominems > repeat

---

Since Lib refuses to provide evidence and would rather pretend that creativity > science and imply we are all ignorant or otherwise intellectually inferior for disagreeing with his belief that citations and evidence don't matter, I have done some digging myself:

It seems that there was an attempt at a vaguely similar project to get a blimp over 60,000ft; of course nothing on the massive scale Lib suggests, and as this news source demonstrates we can all see how that turned out.

As this Wikipedia article shows, some nations are working on possibly similar projects, although precisely because they are being developed we cannot know much about their function or operation and the fact they haven't actually been tested and deployed yet should add another mark to our tally that such a concept is PMT - and again this isn't factoring in the size.

Further digging reveals several "concept" ideas, all of which were cancelled or never considered. Only 1 test design, the HiSentinel, demonstrated working capacity to reach that altitude, however if anyone cares to do their homework you will see that HiSentinel's payload was quite seriously small, and hardly enough to launch most drones into orbit an exponentially undercapable of carrying the weight of a space fighter not to mention the proper protection and materials needed to protect itself from the launch of such an airship.

[Common Territories]

Repeating a question and expecting an immediate reply does not make me any more likely to have time to deal with the issue at the heart of the question. I appreciate that some of you may not know what it is like to be busy with RL, but I do not anticipate having time to present my arguments before Christmas at the earliest. Now kindly stop bothering me.

Time? If there are academic or military papers about the subject, you could post links to them in less time than it takes you to reply to one of these posts. The time excuse does not work.

Not to mention that, like I've said before, this has been a repeating argument for MONTHS now; there should be something available - anything. Maybe some random research paper, some write-up that's been done on 2ria's part a bit, hell, maybe some notes 2ria did write down? I know he has a IIWiki page for it, lets look there maybe? The "Oh, it'll take like 10 pages to describe this thing!" excuse, yea, welcome to our world where we make products for sport; Lamoni, Cusc, INY, and I have written such amounts for posts/products. In fact, my light carrier I made a little while ago is 14 pages long according to MS Word, and that's when it's not properly spaced, paragraphed (they're too large), and other normal touches aren't done to the paper; I made it within weeks because I did art for it (which ate the most time), research I needed to learn, and than the actual writing process took a good couple days total over a span of a few weeks (I'd give 4 or 5 total hours or more since I had to find days where I was inspired to write for it). That was all done while I had lower motivation and took my time with things - so I'd say about under a month it was done when including every aspect (Lamoni can also vouch since I consulted with him over this and used a lot of ideas he had for it there - unlike you, I go to just about all my friends for advice/input.). Thought the difference between you and us, 2ria, is that our products have had research done on them and we apparently bother to create them before using them. Though maybe you know how this works and just haven't gotten it down yet. If so, wait to use it, like everyone else is saying.

[New Aeyariss]

Isn't the Kaizen a beauty ?

I bet that this plane could rip to shreds whatever Ausitoria puts against me. Why? Because we spend our time doing research for our products, work hard to develop the concepts, often debate them - and are not afraid to give evidence.

Do you know how much I had to fight Riysa for Cruise Missile Cargo Carrier project ?

[Silverakia]

Can I is of join?

[Western Pacific Territories]

Isn't the Kaizen a beauty ?

(Image)

I bet that this plane could rip to shreds whatever Ausitoria puts against me. Why? Because we spend our time doing research for our products, work hard to develop the concepts, often debate them - and are not afraid to give evidence.

Do you know how much I had to fight Riysa for Cruise Missile Cargo Carrier project ?

Looks pretty neat. I have to say, your line art looks pretty good, although I do have to say, I can see something line art'ers suffer from. Namely, curves don't like curves, they look like lots of small lines that have been drawn in a way that makes them appear to have a curving shape. Although I suppose that it's pretty hard to do something about that.

[Common Territories]

Isn't the Kaizen a beauty ?

(Image)

I bet that this plane could rip to shreds whatever Ausitoria puts against me. Why? Because we spend our time doing research for our products, work hard to develop the concepts, often debate them - and are not afraid to give evidence.

Do you know how much I had to fight Riysa for Cruise Missile Cargo Carrier project ?

Looks pretty neat. I have to say, your line art looks pretty good, although I do have to say, I can see something line art'ers suffer from. Namely, curves don't like curves, they look like lots of small lines that have been drawn in a way that makes them appear to have a curving shape. Although I suppose that it's pretty hard to do something about that.

Angles, and curves, are a line artist's greatest foe

[Asigna]

Isn't the Kaizen a beauty ?

(Image)

I bet that this plane could rip to shreds whatever Ausitoria puts against me. Why? Because we spend our time doing research for our products, work hard to develop the concepts, often debate them - and are not afraid to give evidence.

Do you know how much I had to fight Riysa for Cruise Missile Cargo Carrier project ?

It somewhat looks like an old fighter of the eastern bloc.

[Aeyariss]

I get why but there might be other reasons. Do you have the willingness to join the Asigna fan club?

Meh, too much hassle. Besides, who's in it?

[Asigna]

I get why but there might be other reasons. Do you have the willingness to join the Asigna fan club?

Meh, too much hassle. Besides, who's in it?

A few people who are perpetually in denial about it.

[New Aeyariss]

Meh, too much hassle. Besides, who's in it?

A few people who are perpetually in denial about it.

Bombing Asigna is fun, no denial. Joint Asigna bombing club tonight!

[Ardoki]

Hi guys, I apologise for my emotional outburst a few days ago.

I have so many assignments (a couple of which are group assignments, of which I'm doing a lot) at the moment in addition to regular study and preparation for imminent tests/quizzes; I know that's no excuse, but the workload is quite high and the stress is just building up. I don't know why I'll have time to finish what I started, but I don't want to abandon any of this.

I apologise for being indecisive and unavailable, but I'm just focusing on my study at the moment.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Hi guys, I apologise for my emotional outburst a few days ago.

I have so many assignments (a couple of which are group assignments, of which I'm doing a lot) at the moment in addition to regular study and preparation for imminent tests/quizzes; I know that's no excuse, but the workload is quite high and the stress is just building up. I don't know why I'll have time to finish what I started, but I don't want to abandon any of this.

I apologise for being indecisive and unavailable, but I'm just focusing on my study at the moment.

Yeah dude, no problem! IRL comes first.

Just remember this is still a thread that exists that isn't rife with arguments and scientific denial: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=383186

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

IYF, the conventional understanding of modern society is that the truth is not dictated by your whim.

Well, no one appreciates you sarcasm remarks. If you're so busy may I suggest that you could just kindly list out your so called references to your so called 'evidence' for the issues at hand so that the excellent researchers here can do our own investigation?

Otherwise, cut the arguing is another suggestion of mine.

There, finally, I am giving my 2cents.

Peace, kids.

As usual, Aeyariss here hit the nail right on the head. Show us the evidence (actual academic or military papers on the subject), or stop using the design.

I'm busy. (And you lot always leap to conclusions when I haven't time to do it properly).

[Inyourfaceistan]

IYF, the conventional understanding of modern society is that the truth is not dictated by your whim.

100% correct for once! Congratulations!

Now if you could realize the truth is not dictated by your imagination and untested hypotheses, then maybe we could make some progress...

[Lamoni]

I'm busy. (And you lot always leap to conclusions when I haven't time to do it properly).

Because all we've been asking for is even one academic or military paper showing that it is possible. A simple Google search on your part would be more than sufficient. In this sort of argument, the burden of proof is on you, not us.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

A simple Google search on your part would be more than sufficient.

No it isn't. It is a complicated design with several underpinning premises; without any of them the design would be completely unfeasible.

In this sort of argument, the burden of proof is on you, not us.

Well, I've certainly proved it probable to my own satisfaction. But my main burden is to prove it sufficiently for you to understand, if I ever decide you deserve to be enlightened. I do not approve of this modern habit of trying to make people better. As a man sows, so let him reap. Certainly there is no point in me giving you further incomplete information as all you ever do is leap to hasty ill-informed conclusions on incomplete data.

[Valaran]

Well, I've certainly proved it probable to my own satisfaction. But my main burden is to prove it sufficiently for you to understand, if I ever decide you deserve to be enlightened.

You've missed the mutuality of RPing. In a thread which relies on the input and cooperation of player's, a single RPer's satisfaction is not sufficient, if it leads to the dissatisfaction of the other RPers. Thus, while you may feel that no one else deserves to be 'enlightened', this undermines any prospect of cooperation. One may rightly query how people can expect to RP with you if they cannot cooperate with you.

It is clear you just want people to accept what you've said without further questions, but since you've brought up who 'deserves' what, I don't think anyone has good reason to think you deserve to simply be taken at your word, in this instance.

Certainly there is no point in me giving you further incomplete information as all you ever do is leap to hasty ill-informed conclusions on incomplete data.

What else can one do but assume, if you withhold the data. This is primarily a problem you've set up, by first insisting upon the feasibility of something, and then failing to provide any support for that feasibility. If you judge people for acting on a lack of information on this, then you entirely miss the fact that you created the situation where they would lack information, and somehow thought they wouldn't act on what they had/didn't have.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Well, I've certainly proved it probable to my own satisfaction. But my main burden is to prove it sufficiently for you to understand, if I ever decide you deserve to be enlightened.

You've missed the mutuality of RPing. In a thread which relies on the input and cooperation of player's, a single RPer's satisfaction is not sufficient, if it leads to the dissatisfaction of the other RPers. Thus, while you may feel that no one else deserves to be 'enlightened', this undermines any prospect of cooperation.

I haven't missed the mutuality of RPing by conventional methods. However I am not interested in such conventional participation in RPs I consider boring, or with people who are too arrogant to deserve to go on living, which is why nowadays I mostly RP in unconventional styles.

What else can one do but assume, if you withhold the data.

Wait! That is "what else one can do", and also "what else one should do". This modern trend of leaping to hasty conclusions, as seen in everything from the smartphone-fueled rise of skim-reading and the 24 hour news cycle to the demise of respect for detailed and complete expert argument as seen by Brexit and the rise of Putin and Trump is enormously dangerous and is perhaps the most significant problem facing modern society today. People who are terrible at changing their minds should not make up their minds too quickly.

If you won't take it from me, take it from a tree.

I don't know what's got into the modern world, everybody is so impatient.

[New Aeyariss]

Well, I've certainly proved it probable to my own satisfaction. But my main burden is to prove it sufficiently for you to understand, if I ever decide you deserve to be enlightened. I do not approve of this modern habit of trying to make people better. As a man sows, so let him reap. Certainly there is no point in me giving you further incomplete information as all you ever do is leap to hasty ill-informed conclusions on incomplete data.

Maybe you will admit that you are hiding this because there is no data? Maybe because all the time you have been operating on fraud to godmod and techwank to get what you perceived to be an upper hand, and now when people come to expose this, you try to spin it back?

There is one point:

I don't wish you any bad; but I want RPing community to be aware what kind of thing it is dealing with, and this is sole reason of me being here. Reforming people or not, there are some rules of this forum, established by RPing community in the days of old; and more senior RPers such as the Macabees or Lamoni will eagerly confirm that to you. NEVER in my whole story interacting with you have I seen you cooperate or throw something else than "my will be done or I will destroy the thread with arguments". Ironically I myself sent you guides to military RPing when you were complaining on "unrealistic military talk" and tried to be helpful. But of course, who cares?

Even during Aravean war, IFC was pissed at you because YOU were the one who led to collapse of that RP, with your attitude of constant starting of OOC arguments just to make sure your ideas will pass. I can say right here and right now that many parties within IFC have enough of it, as much as have most of people in SACTO. Remember that thread with IYF? Not a SINGLE move has been made by Ausitoria ICly to RP what could have been an epic tale of struggle of dominance over the seas. Imagine it - Nihon and Inyursta each actively trying to challenge Ausitoria while we have fun from developing a story.

No. Instead you had to turn it into an OOC madness with NOT A SINGLE MOVE being made ICly. Not a single reply has been given to us over multiple other issues. In fact, by your own standards, Ausitoria should have dissolved by now because Nihon took maritime dominance from it. I won't of course insist on that fact, because had not this behaviour been present, Ausitoria would have been ideal RPing partner for me, at least considering IC believes and depth you can write about international relations at times.

The whole point is: THIS SITE IS NOT PLAYGROUND OF ANY OF US! RPing community often requires sacrifices of one's wishes to be made. Learned that long ago.

I haven't missed the mutuality of RPing by conventional methods. However I am not interested in such conventional participation in RPs I consider boring, or with people who are too arrogant to deserve to go on living, which is why nowadays I mostly RP in unconventional styles.

On the contrary. All of us were fully eager to be cooperative. I learned a lot during 2015, tbh, especially in terms of what NOT to do when talking to what we call here "OPFOR". That is why I have been advocating for people not to bring OOC rivalries in the IC. But of course who cares when all you care about is your own ego, with no offense?

Wait! That is "what else one can do", and also "what else one should do". This modern trend of leaping to hasty conclusions, as seen in everything from the smartphone-fueled rise of skim-reading to the demise of respect for detailed and complete expert argument as seen by Brexit and the rise of Putin and Trump is enormously dangerous and is perhaps the most significant problem facing modern society today. People who are terrible at changing their minds should not make up their minds too quickly.

With no offense, aren't you a bit of hypocritical here? And please take out RL political arguments to NSG. There is NOTHING that divides people more than politics, and I firmly believe that debates about RL politics have no place on II. Or perhaps this is a bait?

Thank you.

[Valaran]

I haven't missed the mutuality of RPing by conventional methods. However I am not interested in such conventional participation in RPs I consider boring, or with people who are too arrogant to deserve to go on living, which is why nowadays I mostly RP in unconventional styles.

Unconventionality should not come at the cost of basic cooperation, in short.

Wait! That is "what else one can do", and also "what else one should do".

There are many things I think you should do. This does not mean I have the right to simply dictate to you, and it also means you don't have a monopoly of diktats on the obligations of others.

I don't know what's got into the modern world, everybody is so impatient.

Feel free to start a thread on General, if you feel strongly about this. Or /pol/.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Certainly there is no point in me giving you further incomplete information as all you ever do is leap to hasty ill-informed conclusions on incomplete data.

Are you seriously trying to say that "it isn't real", "no such thing exists", and "you can't expect us to assume confirmation of an untested hypothesis" are "ill-informed conclusions"?

Do you even believe the lies and falsehoods you are writing, or do you just not care?

[Asigna]

Let me ask you a simple question people.

Do you want to rp with each other's canon or not?

Aimed at: Lib v friends.

[New Aeyariss]

Let me ask you a simple question people.

Do you want to rp with each other's canon or not?

Aimed at: Lib v friends.

Of course I would like to. TBH, most reasons why I am here is because many of my standards RPing partners are IFC members which makes Lib hard to ignore - that is why I am here after all.