Maroon Revolution [DIPLOMATIC|MT+|SEMI-OPEN|OOC]

[New Aeyariss]

Let's take for example my invention, the IEK-88C Taipan Block II air-superiority fighter. It is a design like several variants of the Su-27 family including the Su-33 as well as F-15 ACTIVE including both canards and rear horizontal stabilizers in addition to a thrust vectoring nozzle. It features the same LPI AESA radar as is found in the F-22 Raptor and an IRST system similar to Optronique Secteur Frontal found on the Dassault Rafale. The engines are actually made in Nihon, and I'm not certain what he based them upon but super cruise is a proven ability found on several Gen 4 - Gen 5 fighter aircraft. It's speed is just a little less than what the F-15 can do, and it's fuel consumption and air-to-air payload aren't anyting the Flanker family mentioned above can't do.

I can't be worse IYF!

Type L diesel-electric AIP submarine is one of biggest accomplishments of the Nihonese engineering - and a perfect option for smaller states that don't want to have their own nuclear programs. Ready to carry out harshest tasks possible, Type L boasts mission endurance of 90 days and total AIP endurance of 21 Days, with part of it rechargeable due to lithium - ion batteries.

Type L uses pioneering technologies for reduction of acoustic signature, integration with unmanned underwater vehicles (UUV), target detection and stealth; they were needed to create a submarine that could rival SSN, while not being nuclear. This is what is called a creative engineering... and all operating on fully confirmed technology.

Mental block got the best of me. Cant write anything after so long.

Take your time friend. I am sort of away myself; health blocks my IC writing. But expect me to get active again after I return home tomorrow.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

The vacuum airship argument is best example of that mindset - we kept finding holes in all

So what? I have already seen those holes and I have already worked out solutions. I simply haven't explained them, because most of the patches themselves have holes in them, so that the whole design has several holes and I've only explained three of them so far, because it gets fairly complicated and some of the patches involve vacuum technology, which none of you seem to be familiar with; and some of the others involve economic function, which none of you consider important; and we seem to use different standards anyway - I'm happy to go by what would probably work rather than what is almost certain to work because certainty is overrated.

And then all of us could get on with actually RPing instead of skirmishing over exactly what is reasonable or certain and what isn't and who cares.

I am fully waiting for your post in Bluewell .

Sorry, I should have said then I could get on with actually RPing. You do know that this silly repetitive argument is the single reason why I still haven't either (a) finished my explanation or (b) been up to date in any of my posting in RPs for the last three months?

The trouble is that things have got the point where no matter what I say, a number of influential people won't believe it - confirmation bias. Unfortunately, unlike IRL, where I could simply have nothing to do with you, international incidents is too small for our respective alliances not to clash on a hundred issues.

Therefore the only sensible option is for us to ignore each other's opinions and RP as best as we can around that minor inconvenience.

I do wish you would see that and stop repeating these arguments. They're a waste of time (and not for the reason you think).

[New Aeyariss]

So what? I have already seen those holes and I have already worked out solutions. I simply haven't explained them, because most of the patches themselves have holes in them, so that the whole design has several holes and I've only explained three of them so far, because it gets fairly complicated and some of the patches involve vacuum technology, which none of you seem to be familiar with; and some of the others involve economic function, which none of you consider important.

Sorry, I should have then then I could get on with actually RPing. You do know that this silly repetitive argument is the single reason why I still haven't either (a) finished my explanation or (b) been up to date in any of my posting in RPs for the last three months?

Sure. If you wish I may consult people from NS Draftroom to observe our debate about them. I have no bias towards you or towards anyone - although your behaviour angered a lot of people, not just in here. But I don't want to be mean to you. If you want I can set up a debate in there once you are done and we will talk about it.

And you see, Nihon considers economy to be important - why do you think I am working on having the Imperial Nihonese Army take over mercenary business in NS, working with my allies on contract basis ?

I do wish you would see that and stop repeating these arguments.

I am not the one who causes them Ausitoria. In fact, they give me no pleasure. But I have my honor, and I know how I want to be treated. And I certainly know how I won't allow myself to be treated.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

So what? I have already seen those holes and I have already worked out solutions. I simply haven't explained them, because most of the patches themselves have holes in them, so that the whole design has several holes and I've only explained three of them so far, because it gets fairly complicated and some of the patches involve vacuum technology, which none of you seem to be familiar with; and some of the others involve economic function, which none of you consider important.

Sorry, I should have then then I could get on with actually RPing. You do know that this silly repetitive argument is the single reason why I still haven't either (a) finished my explanation or (b) been up to date in any of my posting in RPs for the last three months?

Sure. If you wish I may consult people from NS Draftroom to observe our debate about them. I have no bias towards you or towards anyone - although your behaviour angered a lot of people, not just in here. But I don't want to be mean to you. If you want I can set up a debate in there once you are done and we will talk about it.

Trouble is we need a fresh opinion, since no doubt enough people have gossiped for almost everybody to jump to hasty conclusions. I was hoping we could use Mizrad, but some of you recently gave a biased view, and once a person decides something they almost never change their mind, particularly if they think their reputation depends on not changing their mind. And that's without considering a herd mentality.

We also need not to have all these silly arguments about it. They only make people firmer in their beliefs, and without detail it's all speculation for your side, since they don't actually know what they're discussing.

And you see, Nihon considers economy to be important - why do you think I am working on having the Imperial Nihonese Army take over mercenary business in NS, working with my allies on contract basis ?

Oh, honestly, mercenary businesses are distinctly unprofitable, no doubt particularly so on NS where there dozens of them. And Ausitoria and I don't just consider the economy to be important - it's the beginning and the end of everything (literally).

I am not the one who causes them Ausitoria.

Well, all I can say is, I wish Cuscy had never launched an unprovoked cyber attack on Ausitoria. There has been so much time wasted since then.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Quite, that's why I don't use any new technology, just new combinations.

Great then. Looks like we agree on something!

Let's take for example my invention, the IEK-88C Taipan Block II air-superiority fighter. It is a design like several variants of the Su-27 family including the Su-33 as well as F-15 ACTIVE including both canards and rear horizontal stabilizers in addition to a thrust vectoring nozzle. It features the same LPI AESA radar as is found in the F-22 Raptor and an IRST system similar to Optronique Secteur Frontal found on the Dassault Rafale. The engines are actually made in Nihon, and I'm not certain what he based them upon but super cruise is a proven ability found on several Gen 4 - Gen 5 fighter aircraft. It's speed is just a little less than what the F-15 can do, and it's fuel consumption and air-to-air payload aren't anyting the Flanker family mentioned above can't do.

So what real life working models is your Delta class similar to again?

Most of you haven't studied science

Bullshit.
This is coming from the kid who can't be bothered to provide a source and thinks creativity and immagination are more important than valid evidence and the scientific method.

So what? If you can remember how stubborn Lolomz was, I think you'd have expected him to say if I was making stuff up, rather than just posting normally.

By this same logic I think you would have expected him to deny Romic's withdrawl instead of just posting normally.

Do everyone a favour, and stop trying to persuade me to think exactly like you

Right back at you!
Considering it was you who barged into our MT RP'ing sphere...
SACTO was involved in canon with nations like Asigna, Ardoki, Guad, etc. long before you came and charged in on our universe with your egotistical anti-science, anti-factual PMT borderline FT garbage. So no. It's you who needs to stop trying to force us to play by your rules in which you can reject facts and logic in favor of fantasy and creativity.

Reposting because it looks as it was either forgotten or intentionally ignored.

So what? I have already seen those holes and I have already worked out solutions. I simply haven't explained them, because most of the patches themselves have holes in them, so that the whole design has several holes and I've only explained three of them so far, because it gets fairly complicated and some of the patches involve vacuum technology, which none of you seem to be familiar with; and some of the others involve economic function, which none of you consider important; and we seem to use different standards anyway - I'm happy to go by what would probably work rather than what is almost certain to work because certainty is overrated.

Then source us where NASA, or the USAF, or the Russian AF, or the Chinese, or India or Europe or any of the world's greatest scientific minds have fixed these issues.

Because if they haven't found a solution, then there is no way in hell some kid on the Internet has...

I do wish you would see that and stop repeating these arguments. They're a waste of time (and not for the reason you think).

I wish you would admit you were wrong and that vacuum starships aren't a valid deployable concept in 2010 - 2020, or just provide some damn sources which prove you aren't wrong; otherwise quit shitting all over the scientific method just because you expect people to believe your Sci-Fi wankships is real...

[Asigna]

In psychology (lol), they teach us that when you want to solve a conflict. You need to get to the root of the problem. All others are just byproducts of the main problem itself.

What is the root of the problem?

[Inyourfaceistan]

In psychology (lol), they teach us that when you want to solve a conflict. You need to get to the root of the problem. All others are just byproducts of the main problem itself.

What is the root of the problem?

Lib's starship isn't real and he can't source it, therefore it belongs in PMT.

[New Aeyariss]

Trouble is we need a fresh opinion, since no doubt enough people have gossiped for almost everybody to jump to hasty conclusions. I was hoping we could use Mizrad, but some of you recently gave a biased view, and once a person decides something they almost never change their mind, particularly if they think their reputation depends on not changing their mind. And that's without considering a herd mentality.

Hmm how about Paddy o Fernature? How about MilRealism thread? I think both of them already given their opinion honestly. My further question is also; why economically will it be worth it? Building such a craft even with NS MT would devour countless resources - it is 3km long after all, and offers no real advantages over traditional aircraft carrier. At the same time Nihonese will simply put more aircraft carriers than Ausitoria will be able to pull because of costs of Ausitorian military will be focused in pumping enormous, useless behemoths that would be destroyed with a single shot of ABM.

See, this is one of issues with USN at this moment; carriers devour too much cash, making the navy often lack money for other things. Most of them are not really on patrol, they are used as floating airfields staying in the port for most of time.

Cost effectiveness is really an important factor in the military - especially when your opponent brings firepower Imperial Nihonese Army can bring to battle.

We also need not to have all these silly arguments about it. They only make people firmer in their beliefs, and without detail it's all speculation for your side, since they don't actually know what they're discussing.

I am waiting for posts . But a note here. There was an RP one time. I RPed with a guy who asked me to teach him military stuff. He had a force of 30 000 - roughly - religious fanatics invade a place controlled by a local Nihonese militia force. Despite 10 to 1 numerical advantage, his first day resulted in 800 man loss for him and 0 on my side. The following days brought only encirclement of his forces, the relief units falling into a a prepared series of ambushes, and raid on his HQ which resulted in massacre of the fanatics.

That RP was fun. I never had any problems RPing with that person. And you know what? It was one of best RPs I have. Outgunned and outnumbered, I have been able to win by thinking. As you can see - using ultra high tech is not always best choice for an RP.

Well, all I can say is, I wish Cuscy had never launched an unprovoked cyber attack on Ausitoria. There has been so much time wasted since then.

It wasn't unprovoked. It was launched during Aravean war, when Nihonese and Ausitorians were on competing sides of two factions. Ausitoria was the enemy intervening on behalf of an enemy, leftist faction that Kojiro's government ordered to depose.

[Asigna]

In psychology (lol), they teach us that when you want to solve a conflict. You need to get to the root of the problem. All others are just byproducts of the main problem itself.

What is the root of the problem?

Lib's starship isn't real and he can't source it, therefore it belongs in PMT.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

In psychology (lol), they teach us that when you want to solve a conflict. You need to get to the root of the problem. All others are just byproducts of the main problem itself.

What is the root of the problem?

The root of the problem for Inyursta is probably that he still hasn't got over me expelling him from the IFC.

That and issues of economic scale.

It wasn't unprovoked. It was launched during Aravean war, when Nihonese and Ausitorians were on competing sides of two factions. Ausitoria was the enemy intervening on behalf of an enemy, leftist faction that Kojiro's government ordered to depose.

No, actually, it wasn't; Ausitoria was lumped in with another nation, I forget which. That was why it maddened the Ausitorians so much. Ausitorians can't stand injustice, particularly when it's against them.

Trouble is we need a fresh opinion, since no doubt enough people have gossiped for almost everybody to jump to hasty conclusions. I was hoping we could use Mizrad, but some of you recently gave a biased view, and once a person decides something they almost never change their mind, particularly if they think their reputation depends on not changing their mind. And that's without considering a herd mentality.

Hmm how about Paddy o Fernature? How about MilRealism thread? I think both of them already given their opinion honestly.

But I haven't showed them how it could work so naturally they don't think it does work so almost nothing I say will change their minds so that's no good for an unbiased opinion.

My further question is also; why economically will it be worth it? Building such a craft even with NS MT would devour countless resources - it is 3km long after all, and offers no real advantages over traditional aircraft carrier.

Obviously it offers no advantages over a traditional aircraft carrier if used for air combat. Its only function is lowering the cost of sending things into orbit, which is why I've consistently ignored all your warnings about how useless it is for military combat or how it would be destroyed immediately upon arriving at a front line - because it's never going there. Its function is to serve as a refueling stop for spacecraft and a launching pad for anti-space weapons. It is not an airborne aircraft carrier. It is not a star destroyer, no matter what IC Ausitorian propaganda says.

What it is is a spacecraft transporter. It is to improve fuel efficiency. Ideologically it owes far more to this than that.

And I know it sounds frightfully outlandish as a concept but there's a hell of a lot of research going on in that direction, even IRL (of course IRL there simply isn't enough space traffic to justify it yet). But it'll probably happen one day when the economics is sorted out, because the technology already exists.

[Romic]

If the tech exists source it.

[Lamoni]

But I haven't showed them how it could work so naturally they don't think it does work so almost nothing I say will change their minds so that's no good for an unbiased opinion.

That is just a fancy way of saying that you have no proof that it would work, L&A. You want to know why everyone regards your "design" as PMT? Because you have a TOTAL LACK of supporting evidence. Where are the studies from NASA, or the Russians, or the Chinese, or... anyone IRL with any scientific credentials? So far, all you've done is whine about it, without showing us one shred of proof that it is A.) being built today, or B.) being seriously considered by any military service or university with the intent to use it in a MT time-frame. Thus, it is PMT at best, FT at worse. Are you following the logic here, L&A?

If you were to show us some actual evidence, that would actually get people to believe you. But you've shown no such evidence.

[Asigna]

But I haven't showed them how it could work so naturally they don't think it does work so almost nothing I say will change their minds so that's no good for an unbiased opinion.

That is just a fancy way of saying that you have no proof that it would work, L&A. You want to know why everyone regards your "design" as PMT? Because you have a TOTAL LACK of supporting evidence. Where are the studies from NASA, or the Russians, or the Chinese, or... anyone IRL with any scientific credentials? So far, all you've done is whine about it, without showing us one shred of proof that it is A.) being built today, or B.) being seriously considered by any military service or university with the intent to use it in a MT time-frame. Thus, it is PMT at best, FT at worse. Are you following the logic here, L&A?

If you were to show us some actual evidence, that would actually get people to believe you. But you've shown no such evidence.

That's the seal to the coffin dealt with.

[Inyourfaceistan]

For everyone who is tired of the same old arguement here is a thread where we were about to accomplish a deal of some sort; so feel free to keep the RP going:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=383186

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

But I haven't showed them how it could work so naturally they don't think it does work so almost nothing I say will change their minds so that's no good for an unbiased opinion.

That is just a fancy way of saying that you have no proof that it would work, L&A.

Either that or it's a way of saying I haven't yet provided proof that it probably would work.

Honestly, what do they teach you mentors?

And now of course your reputation is on the line, so no matter what proof I provide, you'll dismiss it as irrelevant. This is futile.

Now, if you want a solution, let us stop discussing this until we can find someone who has no vested interested or unconscious bias who I can provide proof of probability to when I have time. In the meantime you can go on ignoring my design at your probable eventual peril.

[Lamoni]

Either that or it's a way of saying I haven't yet provided proof that it probably would work.

Honestly, what do they teach you mentors?

And now of course your reputation is on the line, so no matter what proof I provide, you'll dismiss it as irrelevant. This is futile.

Now, if you want a solution, let us stop discussing this until we can find someone who has no vested interested or unconscious bias who I can provide proof of probability to when I have time. In the meantime you can go on ignoring my design at your probable eventual peril.

L&A, the only possible way that you will get anyone to believe you is to show this supposed evidence, as I said in my previous comments. You keep saying that you have such evidence, but you never show it to anyone, and dismiss anything to the contrary as "bias." As I said, that is why no one believes you.

I honestly don't care about my reputation in this argument. You have proof that it'd work in a MT setting? Show it. If not, then stop trying to use the design in a MT setting. It is really that simple.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Either that or it's a way of saying I haven't yet provided proof that it probably would work.

Honestly, what do they teach you mentors?

And now of course your reputation is on the line, so no matter what proof I provide, you'll dismiss it as irrelevant. This is futile.

Now, if you want a solution, let us stop discussing this until we can find someone who has no vested interested or unconscious bias who I can provide proof of probability to when I have time. In the meantime you can go on ignoring my design at your probable eventual peril.

L&A, the only possible way that you will get anyone to believe you is to show this supposed evidence, as I said in my previous comments.

I know - I haven't disputed that.

If not, then stop trying to use the design in a MT setting.

I'm not exactly forcing it on anybody, and nor do I intend to.

What are you fussing about exactly?

[Lamoni]

I'm not "fussing" about anything. I'm telling you to either show this evidence that your design would work in a MT setting, or to not use the design in a MT setting.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Well, that's easy, since I'm already doing that.

[Lamoni]

Then keep on doing that, and there will be no need for any further arguments, on either side. That was all that everyone wanted, and there was no need to drag it out.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

That was all I wanted, too; unfortunately people keep on dragging it up. Unfortunately wasting time is not an offence.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Well, that's easy, since I'm already doing that.

No, you're not:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=367930
That's not the only example, I know I could find at least one, maybe two or three more examples of you brandishing that thing (and everything else that comes with).

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you changed your position when an RP mentor appeared, at least it shows some humility and at least it shows you don't think you're better than everyone; but that statement is untrue.

So please, don't bring that thing into MT, so if you plan to start not using that in MT thank you; but don't go around telling people you weren't planning to use it when you quite obviously were...

Then keep on doing that, and there will be no need for any further arguments, on either side. That was all that everyone wanted, and there was no need to drag it out.

Thank you for your input, that is in fact what we all wanted.

Unfortunately as you can see above that was NOT the case until now. Hopefully things can change though...

[Gauliscia]

It's utterly ridiculous this is still going on. Clearly Ardoki and libraria don't want to RP and prefer OOC conflict, so why continue..?

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Oh, I'm happy to RP, just not with you. Since that's obviously impossible. However we do RP with people who RP with the other party so we must accomodate events.

Well, that's easy, since I'm already doing that.

No, you're not:
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... 5&t=367930
That's not the only example, I know I could find at least one, maybe two or three more examples of you brandishing that thing (and everything else that comes with).

Another hasty conclusion! Let's actually look in detail, shall we?

Let us start with the text. Is there any mention of this OOCly disputed delta-class? No.

Let us look at the pictures. Now, what do we have here? "Promotional poster."

Nowhere do I force people to agree that that blimp exists at present. I do not actually use the design in an MT setting.

Really you ought not to jump to hasty conclusions.

[New Aeyariss]

Oh, I'm happy to RP, just not with you. Since that's obviously impossible. However we do RP with people who RP with the other party so we must accomodate events.

No, you're not:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=367930
That's not the only example, I know I could find at least one, maybe two or three more examples of you brandishing that thing (and everything else that comes with).

Another hasty conclusion! Let's actually look in detail, shall we?

Let us start with the text. Is there any mention of this OOCly disputed delta-class? No.

Let us look at the pictures. Now, what do we have here? "Promotional poster."

Nowhere do I force people to agree that that blimp exists at present. I do not actually use the design in an MT setting.

Really you ought not to jump to hasty conclusions.

Delta class being used in bluewell, an MT thread.