Maroon Revolution [DIPLOMATIC|MT+|SEMI-OPEN|OOC]

[Flardania]

I believe, in bullet points, he's saying this:

• Asigna raided INY embassies, meaning obviously this is a sign you're a fucking pussy.
• Every single SACTO member doesn't know the term diplomacy.
• SACTO doesn't do diplomacy, period.
• To add those last two points together, SACTO is useless because it doesn't know how to do diplomacy in the beholder's ideal. Diplomacy, in this situation, is sitting and talking for one month as nothing gets done. Because Ardoki has proven he's willing to just talk this all out over a cold beer
• Apparently you need diplomacy to do foreign policy. Color me shocked.

No, i said embassies are useless for SACTO, since they never used them anyways.

Meanwhile Bayan-Kirishinan relations are healthy as should be

[Asigna]

Meanwhile Bayan-Kirishinan relations are healthy as should be

Kirishima is the only truly democratic nation in NS.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Meanwhile Bayan-Kirishinan relations are healthy as should be

Kirishima is the only truly democratic nation in NS.

This better be sarcasm or I will show you posts where I have taken shit for being too democratic...

[Asigna]

Kirishima is the only truly democratic nation in NS.

This better be sarcasm or I will show you posts where I have taken shit for being too democratic...

Well, as you see, my standards are quite biased.

[Ardoki]

:unsure:

I'm not entirely eager to read the last few pages, what with all the apparent drama, but I'm still quite interested in this whole affair. Would someone mind giving me a quick rundown of the current situation so I don't go blundering in, only to have to retcon the post?

They are 99% unnecessary.

Here's what you need to know.

-The government Ardoki, a pariah state under a political party known as the SDLP, a very ruthless party known for applying progressive policies in an unnecessary ruthless manner is being warned to step out of power for its numerous international level crimes (crimes committed in other nations).
-Now, a blockade is being prepared by a grand coalition before invasion begins to liberate Ardoki of its subversive provinces and dispose of the SDLP

It was all Moriarty and O'Brien! The ASDLP was the real victim of their abuses of power.

EDIT: The Party will be reforming, to clean up the current mess and prevent future abuses of power.

[Asigna]

They are 99% unnecessary.

Here's what you need to know.

-The government Ardoki, a pariah state under a political party known as the SDLP, a very ruthless party known for applying progressive policies in an unnecessary ruthless manner is being warned to step out of power for its numerous international level crimes (crimes committed in other nations).
-Now, a blockade is being prepared by a grand coalition before invasion begins to liberate Ardoki of its subversive provinces and dispose of the SDLP

It was all Moriarty and O'Brien! The ASDLP was the real victim of their abuses of power.

EDIT: The Party will be reforming, to clean up the current mess and prevent future abuses of power.

What happened to Kant?

[Ardoki]

It was all Moriarty and O'Brien! The ASDLP was the real victim of their abuses of power.

EDIT: The Party will be reforming, to clean up the current mess and prevent future abuses of power.

What happened to Kant?

He died, a very long time ago. However, I preferred Bentham as a philosopher.

[Asigna]

What happened to Kant?

He died, a very long time ago. However, I preferred Bentham as a philosopher.

Not that Kant, Jahanara kant. The Ardokian leader who arguably gave the bayan the most trouble.

[Tyrnica]

:unsure:

I'm not entirely eager to read the last few pages, what with all the apparent drama, but I'm still quite interested in this whole affair. Would someone mind giving me a quick rundown of the current situation so I don't go blundering in, only to have to retcon the post?

They are 99% unnecessary.

Here's what you need to know.

-The government Ardoki, a pariah state under a political party known as the SDLP, a very ruthless party known for applying progressive policies in an unnecessary ruthless manner is being warned to step out of power for its numerous international level crimes (crimes committed in other nations).
-Now, a blockade is being prepared by a grand coalition before invasion begins to liberate Ardoki of its subversive provinces and dispose of the SDLP

Ah, thank you. I did think it would have been slightly pointless to wade through all of that.

In that case, would it be appropriate to lodge a post there myself, or would it be preferable to hang around and see what occurs on this thread?

[Ardoki]

He died, a very long time ago. However, I preferred Bentham as a philosopher.

Not that Kant, Jahanara kant. The Ardokian leader who arguably gave the bayan the most trouble.

Some time in the second half of 2014 (or maybe early 2015), I settled my country down to a culture which is predominately Irish (with Roman, Byzantine, and Greek elements). So, I guess you can think of that woman as O'Brien.

[Asigna]

They are 99% unnecessary.

Here's what you need to know.

-The government Ardoki, a pariah state under a political party known as the SDLP, a very ruthless party known for applying progressive policies in an unnecessary ruthless manner is being warned to step out of power for its numerous international level crimes (crimes committed in other nations).
-Now, a blockade is being prepared by a grand coalition before invasion begins to liberate Ardoki of its subversive provinces and dispose of the SDLP

Ah, thank you. I did think it would have been slightly pointless to wade through all of that.

In that case, would it be appropriate to lodge a post there myself, or would it be preferable to hang around and see what occurs on this thread?

Post there yourself, nothing good happens here.

[New Chilokver]

Sink IFC vessels for the jokes.

I'd like to see you try, buddy.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Tyrnica, currently we're waiting to know whether Moriarty et al. would have been handed to the IFC. If no, there's a fair bit to retcon. If yes, we'll then need to work out whether they escaped, so there might be a few bits to be retconned.

Cuscy, Inyursta, how the hell do you two think you can judge the success of Ausitorian foreign policy when you still don't even understand what it is actually aiming to achieve? You don't seem to have grasped Ausitoria's strategic aims at all.

Now, I suggest you sit down and read this carefully:

Ausitoria wanted Ardoki to have another chance. They got it. They wanted what they did with the chance to be their own choice. It was. Now they want justice to be done unto Ardoki. It will happen.

If after re-reading it you still don't understand it, I'll be very happy to go through it.

[Asigna]

Ausitoria wanted Ardoki to have another chance. They got it. They wanted what they did with the chance to be their own choice. It was. Now they want justice to be done unto Ardoki. It will happen.

If after re-reading it you still don't understand it, I'll be very happy to go through it.[/quote]

Believe me, i tried to moderate Ardoki by introducing Natprogism only for them to twist it into something so evil.

[New Aeyariss]

Cuscy, Inyursta, how the hell do you two think you can judge the success of Ausitorian foreign policy when you still don't even understand what it is actually aiming to achieve? You don't seem to have grasped Ausitoria's strategic aims at all.

Very simply. Because Shogun Kojiro broke Ausitorian foreign policy down via Nihonese diplomacy.

If I were you I would have started looking carefully...

Believe me, i tried to moderate Ardoki by introducing Natprogism only for them to twist it into something so evil.

Kojiro cares only about destruction of socialism in Ardoki and claiming Ardokian oil wells in the arctic .

[Asigna]

claiming Ardokian oil wells in the arctic .

Hah! I've always known you guys are one way or another imperialistic!

[Inyourfaceistan]

Cuscy, Inyursta, how the hell do you two think you can judge the success of Ausitorian foreign policy when you still don't even understand what it is actually aiming to achieve? You don't seem to have grasped Ausitoria's strategic aims at all.

Now, I suggest you sit down and read this carefully:

Ausitoria wanted Ardoki to have another chance. They got it. They wanted what they did with the chance to be their own choice. It was. Now they want justice to be done unto Ardoki. It will happen.

If after re-reading it you still don't understand it, I'll be very happy to go through it.

Well if we all issued vague policy statements like that and changed the goal posts constantly, how could we believe anyone's foreign policy objectives fail?

The fact is, Ausitoria has at the moment failed to accomplish:
- Reform of Ardoki
- Trial of Moriarty and O'Brien
- Guidance/Control/Influence during Ardoki's transition
- Post-transition influence in Ardoki

[Ganos Lao]

Cuscy, Inyursta, how the hell do you two think you can judge the success of Ausitorian foreign policy when you still don't even understand what it is actually aiming to achieve? You don't seem to have grasped Ausitoria's strategic aims at all.

Now, I suggest you sit down and read this carefully:



If after re-reading it you still don't understand it, I'll be very happy to go through it.

Well if we all issued vague policy statements like that and changed the goal posts constantly, how could we believe anyone's foreign policy objectives fail?

The fact is, Ausitoria has at the moment failed to accomplish:
- Reform of Ardoki
- Trial of Moriarty and O'Brien
- Guidance/Control/Influence during Ardoki's transition
- Post-transition influence in Ardoki

If Ardoki would let Hobbesian take hold, and OOCly cooperated for the sake of a good story, I'd guarantee all of that could be achieved through Quinn and her efforts. We could send Johannes Pitkanen, the architect of our recent humanitarian aid efforts, to work with his leaders. Pitkanen is a non-partisan activist, and he wouldn't mind working with anyone as long as they think of the people first (no, he's not a socialist, just an ardent humanist).

Ardoki would be a brand new state, open to just about anyone in this thread, within the norms and boundaries of civilized nations of course. Plus, I think it would be for the best if only to once and all put an end to the arguing already. Getting tired of every little thing being about Ausitoria.

Maybe I should phrase it like this, and I invite anyone to join me, but if he doesn't leave, I'll leave. I'll wash my hands of this entire thing. Not going to waste my time with "Ausi does this," and "Ausi does that" anymore. RP is supposed to be cooperative, so where's the cooperation? Enough already, seriously!

[Inyourfaceistan]

If Ardoki would let Hobbesian take hold, and OOCly cooperated for the sake of a good story, I'd guarantee all of that could be achieved through Quinn and her efforts. We could send Johannes Pitkanen, the architect of our recent humanitarian aid efforts, to work with his leaders. Pitkanen is a non-partisan activist, and he wouldn't mind working with anyone as long as they think of the people first (no, he's not a socialist, just an ardent humanist).

I mean most of us are at the point now where unless Ardoki suddenly pulled a 180^o and suddenly agreed to our demands and/or cut some kind of serious backdoor OOC deal (and even then the longer he drags his feet the worse his position gets); it's going to break down to a military-dominated situation which is what many of us wanted in the first place and many others said would happen.

I'm not sure how Ardoki adopting Hobbesianism would change anything...

Ardoki would be a brand new state, open to just about anyone in this thread, within the norms and boundaries of civilized nations of course. Plus, I think it would be for the best if only to once and all put an end to the arguing already. Getting tired of every little thing being about Ausitoria.

Maybe I should phrase it like this, and I invite anyone to join me, but if he doesn't leave, I'll leave. I'll wash my hands of this entire thing. Not going to waste my time with "Ausi does this," and "Ausi does that" anymore. RP is supposed to be cooperative, so where's the cooperation? Enough already, seriously!

Cooperation is very hard when certain individuals believe their ego guarantees them bargaining chips. It's hard to work out details and a solution when you get repeatedly bombarded with utter nonsense that has no bearing on the plot about how freaking awesome someone's nation is and how everything they do is just the best; even when plans blow up in their faces...

[New Aeyariss]

[Gauliscia]

(Image)

Of Krjder still existed, we guess which one he is

[Ganos Lao]

I'm not sure how Ardoki adopting Hobbesianism would change anything...

It all depends, really, if Ardoki's willing to make it stick. All the other times, he just ended up going back to square one. I'm honestly expecting that myself. I guess I'm just too caught up in wanting to spread my ideology to think about all that other stuff.

Cooperation is very hard when certain individuals believe their ego guarantees them bargaining chips. It's hard to work out details and a solution when you get repeatedly bombarded with utter nonsense that has no bearing on the plot about how freaking awesome someone's nation is and how everything they do is just the best; even when plans blow up in their faces...

I agree. And that's why I posted what I posted. If Ausitoria continues to do this, I'll retcon my involvement immediately. I know he has an apparent grudge against y'all in SACTO, but us non-SACTO peeps are tired of hearing it time and time again. The fact that Lamoni, a mentor, was not only called in but ruled against him should've been enough. I've known Lamoni personally, let alone ICly, for years now, and he knows his shit. Ausi should've manned up and accepted he was wrong in that case, but no, he tried to sabotage the RP for everyone by telling Ardoki essentially to disregard it. And that's sort of why, too, that I figured Ardoki could adopt Hobbesianism (mind you, it was he who TG'd me about doing so, not me), because then we could cut off Ausi and see how SACTO would react to Hobbesianism taking root, if for nothing else than to encourage dialogue (after all, Hobbesianism is opposed to Communism itself).

So, yeah, let's try to bring an end to this shit already.

[Ardoki]

I'll try and reply to all these posts eventually. I just feel really ill at the moment (I don't know why, I've been sick for a while, but it's gotten so much worse), I apologise.

(I believe it is stress-induced, if that is possible.)

Sorry again.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

No worries - you're not the only one!

I'm not sure how Ardoki adopting Hobbesianism would change anything...

It all depends, really, if Ardoki's willing to make it stick. All the other times, he just ended up going back to square one. I'm honestly expecting that myself. I guess I'm just too caught up in wanting to spread my ideology to think about all that other stuff.

Cooperation is very hard when certain individuals believe their ego guarantees them bargaining chips. It's hard to work out details and a solution when you get repeatedly bombarded with utter nonsense that has no bearing on the plot about how freaking awesome someone's nation is and how everything they do is just the best; even when plans blow up in their faces...

I agree. [...]

And I disagree. I generally believe RPs run better when everybody knows (OOCly) what every other nation is up to - then RPs are informed.

Your characters can of course go on believing what they like, but RPing when nobody OOCly knows what the facts are always results in unrealistic characters because none of the rational characters can know the truth because nobody OOCly agrees on what the facts are.

Now, generally the way of knowing facts about what another nation is ICly thinking is to ask the OOC operator of that nation - particularly if the OOC operator is the only person likely to understand the nation, e.g. if the nation happens to be cosmopolitan, you might want to ask a cosmopolitan how it makes sense.

I hope I am not correct in drawing the conclusion from all this that attempting OOC discussion of underlying RP facts and dissemination of information is as pointless as trying to disseminate facts ICly. I know that in a terrifically complicated world, it's no surprise that some people don't like critical analysis and can't differentiate or don't even bother trying to differentiate between factual and counterfactual arguments, but I am still horrified to think some of you might not be interested in OOCly discussing what facts these RPs are based on.

[Ganos Lao]

And I disagree. I generally believe RPs run better when everybody knows (OOCly) what every other nation is up to - then RPs are informed.

They run even better when the sources of drama and other impediments are removed, especially after an NS mentor and authority on military matters tells them what's up.