Maroon Revolution [DIPLOMATIC|MT+|SEMI-OPEN|OOC]

[Ardoki]

We are suppose to be holding official talks before anything else happens. Our government hasn't been officially notified or consulted, and it demands that before anything else occurs.

I can guarantee we haven't given out anywhere near 100,000 visas, which are necessary for travel to Ardoki. Only as many visas as were necessary for a diplomatic delegation would have been approved.

The IFC government printed out their own, neatly virtually indistinguishable. What is the point of becoming head of government if you can't print your own visas?

So are you admitting that you have committed forgery? I really doubt your forgeries are perfect; however, you need more than forged visas to enter Ardoki (our government does keep records, and we have no records of granting visas to a hundred thousand Ausitorians.

The IFC is not the head of government of Ardoki, it is unconstitutional so it cannot legally happen. However, just because the IFC may claim to rule Ardoki doesn't make it so. See Emperor Norton for a similar situation.

There would be paperwork involved in purchasing property (even more so due to foreign purchasing regulations) and you could potentially be breaching zoning laws. I'm sure you might be able to rent a large estate quite a way south of Ardea, where you won't cause mass disruption in the middle of a large city.

What is the point of being head of government if you can't rezone? And they can always pardon themselves for any minor infringements of zoning laws, even assuming any police were to arrive at a place obviously defended by sufficient police anyway.

But to avoid disruption to Ardea, I'm sure they'd follow the advice and have a large estate some way to the south as the de-facto head of government, in addition to a location in Ardea itself, to avoid putting too much within Ardea itself.

The IFC is cannot legally be the head of government of Ardoki, such an arrangement is unconstitutional. No IFC resolution can change Ardokian laws or our constitution.

However, that is entirely besides the point. Our government will not recognise such an insane claim, nor will it give up any of its authority. No Ardokian official will accept it, and none of our people will.

The IFC delegation are guests in Ardoki, they will come to the government.

The IFC delegation thinks it is the government - and if you read Resolution 21 c and don't read the Ardoki constitution, they're right. Hence the disagreement in the first place. But I'm sure they'd be willing to provide their own motorcade instead.

Just because Emperor Norton claimed to be the Emperor of the United States, didn't mean he was. He had no recognition, he had no legal authority, he had no power to enforce his claim. It is foolish to argue otherwise.

If your prince really does want to meet our government, you can RP him just walking into the Premier's office in the Grand Legislative Assembly House.

[Ardoki]

Ardoki, can I have a cafe name and some local food and drinks please. Also, what about that contact? You must have some disgruntled civil servant or something?

I can't worry about that at the moment. Sorry.

[Gauliscia]

Ardoki, can I have a cafe name and some local food and drinks please. Also, what about that contact? You must have some disgruntled civil servant or something?

I can't worry about that at the moment. Sorry.

I need names. Like, that's it. Few seconds..

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

The IFC government printed out their own, neatly virtually indistinguishable. What is the point of becoming head of government if you can't print your own visas?

So are you admitting that you have committed forgery? I really doubt your forgeries are perfect; however, you need more than forged visas to enter Ardoki (our government does keep records, and we have no records of granting visas to a hundred thousand Ausitorians.

I doubt even a potential police state like Ardoki has sufficient police to check paratroopers landing in unknown locations. (And before anyone asks, Ausitoria does have sufficient air police to check any air activity which is not their own).

However, that is entirely besides the point. Our government will not recognise such an insane claim, nor will it give up any of its authority. No Ardokian official will accept it, and none of our people will.

The people of Ardoki have a choice before them. Have a nice life, for one month of complying with the very reasonable whims of the IFC, or leave the IFC and suffer likely invasion. They cannot have their cake and eat it: they must be prepared to share sovereignty in their own interests, or Ausitoria will make an example of them.

The IFC delegation thinks it is the government - and if you read Resolution 21 c and don't read the Ardoki constitution, they're right. Hence the disagreement in the first place. But I'm sure they'd be willing to provide their own motorcade instead.

Just because Emperor Norton claimed to be the Emperor of the United States, didn't mean he was. He had no recognition, he had no legal authority, he had no power to enforce his claim. It is foolish to argue otherwise.

If your prince really does want to meet our government, you can RP him just walking into the Premier's office in the Grand Legislative Assembly House.

We will see which side is being foolish. Prepare for a storm...

...replete with boots producing artificial thunder when you walk around. (Naturally, the Ausitorians gave serious consideration to seeding a real storm, but then the Prince would have got wet).

[Ardoki]

So are you admitting that you have committed forgery? I really doubt your forgeries are perfect; however, you need more than forged visas to enter Ardoki (our government does keep records, and we have no records of granting visas to a hundred thousand Ausitorians.

I doubt even a potential police state like Ardoki has sufficient police to check paratroopers landing in unknown locations. (And before anyone asks, Ausitoria does have sufficient air police to check any air activity which is not their own).

However, that is entirely besides the point. Our government will not recognise such an insane claim, nor will it give up any of its authority. No Ardokian official will accept it, and none of our people will.

The people of Ardoki have a choice before them. Have a nice life, for one month of complying with the very reasonable whims of the IFC, or leave the IFC and suffer likely invasion. They cannot have their cake and eat it: they must be prepared to share sovereignty in their own interests, or Ausitoria will make an example of them.

Just because Emperor Norton claimed to be the Emperor of the United States, didn't mean he was. He had no recognition, he had no legal authority, he had no power to enforce his claim. It is foolish to argue otherwise.

If your prince really does want to meet our government, you can RP him just walking into the Premier's office in the Grand Legislative Assembly House.

We will see which side is being foolish. Prepare for a storm...

...replete with boots producing artificial thunder when you walk around. (Naturally, the Ausitorians gave serious consideration to seeding a real storm, but then the Prince would have got wet).

I will not recognise the presence of almost a hundred thousand parachuting bureaucrats landing in the Ardokian wilderness. That is absolutely ridiculous, and I will not comment on it again. As far as I am concerned, only Prince Kazpia and his delegation are present in Ardoki.

You didn't RP their initial arrival into Ardoki, but I'm going to let that slide because it is reasonable.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

I RPed that they had arrived in the previous post. If you wish to RP trying to shoot them down, be my guest. It will save me an enormous amount of time RPing everything else, and then SACTO will be able to invade Ardoki as they planned.

Otherwise, if you have security all over the place, attempting to interfere with lawful government activities, we shall need to RP that before we even get as far as your office; as I can assure you that someone who considers himself the Head of the Government over the Head of Government of Ardoki is unlikely to be particularly co-operative with some unreasonable search and seizure, and more liable to put the head of security under arrest.

In any event, Kazpia wouldn't be in the country if there weren't a hundred thousand people there. He's far too high up to bother with something smaller than a minor government department.

[Valaran]

This reads like OOC brinkmanship/uncooperativeness.

[Organized States]

This reads like OOC brinkmanship/uncooperativeness.

Personally, I'm finding it entertaining that Cus, Inyur, and Ausitoria are on the same side of the argument this time.

[Valaran]

This reads like OOC brinkmanship/uncooperativeness.

Personally, I'm finding it entertaining that Cus, Inyur, and Ausitoria are on the same side of the argument this time.

I'd rather have a working OOC group behind this thread - or else, what's the point, even. The issues themselves aren't espcially thorny, its the OOC attitudes.

[New Aeyariss]

Personally, I'm finding it entertaining that Cus, Inyur, and Ausitoria are on the same side of the argument this time.

I'd rather have a working OOC group behind this thread - or else, what's the point, even. The issues themselves aren't espcially thorny, its the OOC attitudes.

I am under impression that this RP won't even start so I am not wasting my time here any more . Have better areas to RP in.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

This reads like OOC brinkmanship/uncooperativeness.

Nah, it's just IC brinkmanship/uncooperativeness as a background, and now we're arguing about what's reasonable...

I really don't see what's unreasonable about air dropping army establishments into relative wilderness (after all, that's where an army sort of belongs, and what's the point of an army that can't be delivered by air? With Ardoki only about 6000 km from Ausitoria, Ausitoria should be able to airdrop at least three divisions per day by air) and then dropping bureaucrats into army establishments to drive off into the sunset (or, more to the point, into pre-booked/rented hotels/offices in Ardea). Although whether most of the bureaucrats would even need to be able to parachute is an interesting question - I did some calculations for the opening of the Bluewell conflict on how long it would take for the Ausitorians to construct a runway in the vicinity of a quarry and came up with about 24 hours per engineering battalion for an answer. (48 to make it all weather, 72 hours for tarmac parking bays, and about 96 for a small distributed aerodrome - I'd be interested to know whether that sounds reasonable, incidentally).

This reads like OOC brinkmanship/uncooperativeness.

Personally, I'm finding it entertaining that Cus, Inyur, and Ausitoria are on the same side of the argument this time.

You're not alone in that.

[Ardoki]

I RPed that they had arrived in the previous post. If you wish to RP trying to shoot them down, be my guest. It will save me an enormous amount of time RPing everything else, and then SACTO will be able to invade Ardoki as they planned.

Otherwise, if you have security all over the place, attempting to interfere with lawful government activities, we shall need to RP that before we even get as far as your office; as I can assure you that someone who considers himself the Head of the Government over the Head of Government of Ardoki is unlikely to be particularly co-operative with some unreasonable search and seizure, and more liable to put the head of security under arrest.

In any event, Kazpia wouldn't be in the country if there weren't a hundred thousand people there. He's far too high up to bother with something smaller than a minor government department.

You can't just have 100,000 people magically appear in Ardoki. I expected to discuss all this stuff first (both OOCly and ICly); however, I was not given that opportunity.

When I said they wouldn't be given permission to land because my government hadn't been informed or consulted, you tried to claim you had forged Ardokian visas (even know that isn't going to get you past our broader control because your people wouldn't be on our records).

But now, you are claiming 100,000 bureaucrats would have jumped out of aeroplanes like paratroopers and landed in 'unknown locations' where we could never detect them and which somehow prevents us from tracking the aircraft.

Our government would in no way allow, would it would see as an invasion, to proceed. As soon as all your aircraft entered Ardokian airspace, they would be ordered to turn around. If those orders were not met, and your military aircraft continued towards Ardoki, military action would be taken.

However this is not the war thread, so I will not allow such a situation to occur.

It looks like Ardoki will try to reform on its own, it will stand a far lesser chance of success, but at least it will remain independent.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

I RPed that they had arrived in the previous post. If you wish to RP trying to shoot them down, be my guest. It will save me an enormous amount of time RPing everything else, and then SACTO will be able to invade Ardoki as they planned.

Otherwise, if you have security all over the place, attempting to interfere with lawful government activities, we shall need to RP that before we even get as far as your office; as I can assure you that someone who considers himself the Head of the Government over the Head of Government of Ardoki is unlikely to be particularly co-operative with some unreasonable search and seizure, and more liable to put the head of security under arrest.

In any event, Kazpia wouldn't be in the country if there weren't a hundred thousand people there. He's far too high up to bother with something smaller than a minor government department.

You can't just have 100,000 people magically appear in Ardoki. I expected to discuss all this stuff first (both OOCly and ICly); however, I was not given that opportunity.

Well, I thought you'd approved it earlier, when you said that Resolution 21 c was alright. Certainly I assumed you'd read it.

Our government would in no way allow, would it would see as an invasion, to proceed. As soon as all your aircraft entered Ardokian airspace, they would be ordered to turn around. If those orders were not met, and your military aircraft continued towards Ardoki, military action would be taken.

I wish you'd said earlier. Now I shall have to retcon my posts on this thread, and my last one in the IFC Council, and work out what action the Commonwealth Agency would have decided on, which depends rather on what exactly this military action would have been. Could you add it to your OP by any chance?

[Asigna]

This reads like OOC brinkmanship/uncooperativeness.

Personally, I'm finding it entertaining that Cus, Inyur, and Ausitoria are on the same side of the argument this time.

Cus does not really hate anyone.

He's just a really REALLY bored person.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Just a thought - the IFC aircraft wouldn't have come in at the same time anyway, so it probably wouldn't have looked like an invasion at the beginning, since it wasn't (just a slow arrival of forces to defend against imminent invasion - ironic that Ardoki thinks of them as an invasion). So when would the Ardoki government have decided to take action?

[New Aeyariss]

Cus does not really hate anyone.

He's just a really REALLY bored person.

Thanks.

Try spending over a month in hospital, loose your job and spend over a year fighting your own body trying to devour you - and not be bored .

[Ardoki]

You can't just have 100,000 people magically appear in Ardoki. I expected to discuss all this stuff first (both OOCly and ICly); however, I was not given that opportunity.

Well, I thought you'd approved it earlier, when you said that Resolution 21 c was alright. Certainly I assumed you'd read it.

The resolution was very vague; I expected that we would discuss it in detail. Plus, I intended for my government to enter negotiations to achieve a favourable interpretation of the resolution.

But I'm not going to argue. Ardoki will withdraw from the IFC.

[Ardoki]

Cus does not really hate anyone.

He's just a really REALLY bored person.

Thanks.

Try spending over a month in hospital, loose your job and spend over a year fighting your own body trying to devour you - and not be bored .

I hope you get better.

It must be horrible to be so sick.

[Asigna]

Well, I thought you'd approved it earlier, when you said that Resolution 21 c was alright. Certainly I assumed you'd read it.

The resolution was very vague; I expected that we would discuss it in detail. Plus, I intended for my government to enter negotiations to achieve a favourable interpretation of the resolution.

But I'm not going to argue. Ardoki will withdraw from the IFC.

But that will turn you into a Pariah state.... again.

[Ardoki]

The resolution was very vague; I expected that we would discuss it in detail. Plus, I intended for my government to enter negotiations to achieve a favourable interpretation of the resolution.

But I'm not going to argue. Ardoki will withdraw from the IFC.

But that will turn you into a Pariah state.... again.

It's better than letting a Trojan Horse in and losing your independence.

[New Aeyariss]

I think that people should stop conducting diplomacy in OOC threads and try to RP it.

Would have helped a lot.

[Asigna]

I think that people should stop conducting diplomacy in OOC threads and try to RP it.

Would have helped a lot.

True.

I remember Souriya.

[Ardoki]

I think that people should stop conducting diplomacy in OOC threads and try to RP it.

Would have helped a lot.

I had been trying. However, that fell apart because we don't allow people to carry concealed weapons in diplomatic meetings.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

The resolution was very vague; I expected that we would discuss it in detail. Plus, I intended for my government to enter negotiations to achieve a favourable interpretation of the resolution.

But I'm not going to argue. Ardoki will withdraw from the IFC.

But that will turn you into a Pariah state.... again.

Indeed.

Look, Ardoki, are you entirely sure that Ardoki wouldn't just accept the IFC in good faith? I mean, I know Brexit (and Trump) have happened, so things that don't seem to make much sense to establishments happen, but in this case, there are really a lot of good reasons for Ardoki accepting the IFC's offer, warts and all:

1. (In this case) it's the Ardoki establishment that makes the decisions, not the people of Ardoki
2. Ausitoria has just saved Ardoki from invasion
3. The invasion will probably be put back on schedule if Ardoki resigns, so there's lots to loose
4. Ardoki only has to put up with the IFC for one month
5. The IFC can offer Ardoki a lot, from immediate aid to trade deals and permanent security etc.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Plus, even if I did think the IFC was invading, I'd prefer to be invaded by the IFC than by SACTO.

I think that people should stop conducting diplomacy in OOC threads and try to RP it.

Would have helped a lot.

I had been trying. However, that fell apart because we don't allow people to carry concealed weapons in diplomatic meetings.

The point is Prince Kazpia regarded it as a domestic meeting with the potential for administrative insurrection, due to Prince Kazpia regarding the Ardoki government as merely 'collaborating elements', as IFC law requires.