Razor's Edge Cooperative [PMT/SignUps/OOC]

[Empire of Donner land]

I try to add some realism to my things, but in the end it requires some suspension of disbelief for my cool shit* that I spent hours to think up and reading through Wikipedia on subjects I shouldn't have to learn until I go to College or the Air Force. But at the same time I try not to make it rediculous (see: Project Dolos) and work with others on how I could do something. In the end, there's always that person that goes "Not possible, go in the corner for trying to be creative."


*May or may not be actually cool shit.

Same here. Though I've made a bit of a name for myself for my attention to detail and commitment to realism as far as mid/high PMT goes, there's no doubt that a decent amount of extrapolation exists where my technology is concerned; of course, such is an unavoidable requisite when using a futuristic setting. The only way to 100% guarantee realism is by using MT tech, and making a world 135 years in the future yet being identical to today is quite unrealistic in as of itself.

This is also why I try not to chastise other people on technological realism unless I am doing so in a jocular manner or their tech happens to be outrageous, anachronistic, and unintentionally unrealistic all at once. I don't think Aterria had audacious wankery in mind when he made that silly railgun rifle of his, hence my critique of it (and that was after asking him). Similarly, that is the reason I, the supposed xXg0dofr33lizmXx, continually and adamantly stress how technological realism and development are not the most important metrics when judging a nation's viability for being PMT.

Trying to guess what humanity will have in the future is like asking George H Daniels what will replace steam power.

[Vistora]

Same here. Though I've made a bit of a name for myself for my attention to detail and commitment to realism as far as mid/high PMT goes, there's no doubt that a decent amount of extrapolation exists where my technology is concerned; of course, such is an unavoidable requisite when using a futuristic setting. The only way to 100% guarantee realism is by using MT tech, and making a world 135 years in the future yet being identical to today is quite unrealistic in as of itself.

This is also why I try not to chastise other people on technological realism unless I am doing so in a jocular manner or their tech happens to be outrageous, anachronistic, and unintentionally unrealistic all at once. I don't think Aterria had audacious wankery in mind when he made that silly railgun rifle of his, hence my critique of it (and that was after asking him). Similarly, that is the reason I, the supposed xXg0dofr33lizmXx, continually and adamantly stress how technological realism and development are not the most important metrics when judging a nation's viability for being PMT.

Trying to guess what humanity will have in the future is like asking George H Daniels what will replace steam power.

...who?

Anyways, you're right; the simple fact remains is that we really cannot reliably predict the future, no matter of thorough our methodology. The oft-cited example is how very few people predicted the possibility of flight at all, much less stuffing individual humans in metal sausage-triangles that fly faster than the speed of sound. Of course, this is only the best-known example, whilst all technological development throughout human history could probably serve in its stead. A more poignant example is how revolutionary the internet has been, so much so that it is the epicenter of what many people accept is a new technological age. Most futurist predictions only build upon existing technologies (hence every generation having their own skewed view of what the future will bring) without accounting for completely novel innovations, which are simply impossible to predict in full. This is ultimately why giving oneself a little wiggle room as far as technology is concerned can even be more "realistic" than rigidly adhering to what we know for certain is possible, probable, plausible, and applicable.

[Singaporean Transhumans]

Not like glorious stronk balkans can be rekt by stupid american scum anyway

Not like there's historical precedent or anything...

Do you think I'm retarded? Whole China went batshit crazy and butthurt as fuck over that shit.

I'll probably refrain from talking like Pyrocynical though in case Poe's law applies.

[Vistora]

Not like there's historical precedent or anything...

Do you think I'm retarded? Whole China went batshit crazy and butthurt as fuck over that shit.

I'll probably refrain from talking like Pyrocynical though in case Poe's law applies.

That was the point. Just as you were intentionally being oblique, as was I. Why would I assume somebody fucking obsessed with the Balkans would not know about that?

[Vistora]

It's great to see the RP gaining a little steam

[Empire of Donner land]

Trying to guess what humanity will have in the future is like asking George H Daniels what will replace steam power.

...who?

Anyways, you're right; the simple fact remains is that we really cannot reliably predict the future, no matter of thorough our methodology. The oft-cited example is how very few people predicted the possibility of flight at all, much less stuffing individual humans in metal sausage-triangles that fly faster than the speed of sound. Of course, this is only the best-known example, whilst all technological development throughout human history could probably serve in its stead. A more poignant example is how revolutionary the internet has been, so much so that it is the epicenter of what many people accept is a new technological age. Most futurist predictions only build upon existing technologies (hence every generation having their own skewed view of what the future will bring) without accounting for completely novel innovations, which are simply impossible to predict in full. This is ultimately why giving oneself a little wiggle room as far as technology is concerned can even be more "realistic" than rigidly adhering to what we know for certain is possible, probable, plausible, and applicable.

George H Daniels was a (what I can only assume/remember) railroad tycoon. And when quoted for what the future will hold, couldn't predict anything that would replace steam power while others did predict white bread to China and flight. In other words, he had no fucking clue.

I probably could of chosen someone else and made it a good joke.... I thought it was funny : (

But yeah, we don't know what the future will hold. And what seems to be the biggest argument points of realistic NS'ers, Power for Military equipment, is one of the toughest to go around, to a point where I just claimed suspension of disbelief.

When creating the OSS I thought "Hm, hydrogen fuel cells sound cool as fuck for my troops to power their equipement through." Until I realized you would need everyone kitted out with a fucking whole other backpack and that alone adds Hydrogen to logistics creating more pains (even though my MBT runs off of Hydrogen anyway). In which I just went with a simple battery.

I'm not a military scientist, or Tom Clancy, I'm just thinking up whatever is cool as fuck for my nations military to use. My region does the same and when ever someone points out something unrealistic I go into their factbooks and go.

"That's a nice super Solider you have there. Tell me, what fucking gene allows them to magnetically throw shit around?"

[Excidium Planetis]

Also, an article on it, stating specifically how the plasma generates a self-containing magnetic field.

While this is all very interesting, the plasma rings generated by the team only hold together for "tens of milliseconds", and travel "up to two feet", neither of which are useful properties for weapons.

And while a self-containing magnetic field solves one of the major past problems of plasma (how to contain it), that is just one of the problems associated with plasma weapons being used in atmospheric conditions. Probably the largest, in my opinion, is the fact that plasma projectiles encounter a serious foe in air resistance, as they have really low mass for their surface area (yeah, this might not be the case with all plasma, but since plasma is usually less dense than gas, it is a problem).

Not to mention the current device is quite large, as even projected future models will be the size of a bread box. I don't want to be carrying around a bread box-sized weapon on a battlefield, do you?

[Vistora]

...who?

Anyways, you're right; the simple fact remains is that we really cannot reliably predict the future, no matter of thorough our methodology. The oft-cited example is how very few people predicted the possibility of flight at all, much less stuffing individual humans in metal sausage-triangles that fly faster than the speed of sound. Of course, this is only the best-known example, whilst all technological development throughout human history could probably serve in its stead. A more poignant example is how revolutionary the internet has been, so much so that it is the epicenter of what many people accept is a new technological age. Most futurist predictions only build upon existing technologies (hence every generation having their own skewed view of what the future will bring) without accounting for completely novel innovations, which are simply impossible to predict in full. This is ultimately why giving oneself a little wiggle room as far as technology is concerned can even be more "realistic" than rigidly adhering to what we know for certain is possible, probable, plausible, and applicable.

George H Daniels was a (what I can only assume/remember) railroad tycoon. And when quoted for what the future will hold, couldn't predict anything that would replace steam power while others did predict white bread to China and flight. In other words, he had no fucking clue.

I probably could of chosen someone else and made it a good joke.... I thought it was funny : (

But yeah, we don't know what the future will hold. And what seems to be the biggest argument points of realistic NS'ers, Power for Military equipment, is one of the toughest to go around, to a point where I just claimed suspension of disbelief.

When creating the OSS I thought "Hm, hydrogen fuel cells sound cool as fuck for my troops to power their equipement through." Until I realized you would need everyone kitted out with a fucking whole other backpack and that alone adds Hydrogen to logistics creating more pains (even though my MBT runs off of Hydrogen anyway). In which I just went with a simple battery.

I'm not a military scientist, or Tom Clancy, I'm just thinking up whatever is cool as fuck for my nations military to use. My region does the same and when ever someone points out something unrealistic I go into their factbooks and go.

"That's a nice super Solider you have there. Tell me, what fucking gene allows them to magnetically throw shit around?"

Well... tu quoque. Also, magnetically throw shit around?

And in Daniels' defense, steam power is still hugely dominant in large-scale power generation. The installations may have gotten fancier, and the sources of energy more diverse, but much of the world is still powered by heat turning water to steam and turning a turbine. ICEs are obviously used on a smaller scale, but still.

[Vistora]

Also, an article on it, stating specifically how the plasma generates a self-containing magnetic field.

While this is all very interesting, the plasma rings generated by the team only hold together for "tens of milliseconds", and travel "up to two feet", neither of which are useful properties for weapons.

And while a self-containing magnetic field solves one of the major past problems of plasma (how to contain it), that is just one of the problems associated with plasma weapons being used in atmospheric conditions. Probably the largest, in my opinion, is the fact that plasma projectiles encounter a serious foe in air resistance, as they have really low mass for their surface area (yeah, this might not be the case with all plasma, but since plasma is usually less dense than gas, it is a problem).

Not to mention the current device is quite large, as even projected future models will be the size of a bread box. I don't want to be carrying around a bread box-sized weapon on a battlefield, do you?

I'm not saying we'll be toting plasma pistols around by next week, I'm merely demonstrating an important proof-of-concept that, at the very least, hints at the possibility of plasma weaponry not being so completely beyond the reach of known science as you previously claimed it to be. I'm not claiming they'll be at all practical, or even particularly viable. Just that they are perhaps possible.

[Empire of Donner land]

George H Daniels was a (what I can only assume/remember) railroad tycoon. And when quoted for what the future will hold, couldn't predict anything that would replace steam power while others did predict white bread to China and flight. In other words, he had no fucking clue.

I probably could of chosen someone else and made it a good joke.... I thought it was funny : (

But yeah, we don't know what the future will hold. And what seems to be the biggest argument points of realistic NS'ers, Power for Military equipment, is one of the toughest to go around, to a point where I just claimed suspension of disbelief.

When creating the OSS I thought "Hm, hydrogen fuel cells sound cool as fuck for my troops to power their equipement through." Until I realized you would need everyone kitted out with a fucking whole other backpack and that alone adds Hydrogen to logistics creating more pains (even though my MBT runs off of Hydrogen anyway). In which I just went with a simple battery.

I'm not a military scientist, or Tom Clancy, I'm just thinking up whatever is cool as fuck for my nations military to use. My region does the same and when ever someone points out something unrealistic I go into their factbooks and go.

"That's a nice super Solider you have there. Tell me, what fucking gene allows them to magnetically throw shit around?"

Well... tu quoque. Also, magnetically throw shit around?

And in Daniels' defense, steam power is still hugely dominant in large-scale power generation. The installations may have gotten fancier, and the sources of energy more diverse, but much of the world is still powered by heat turning water to steam and turning a turbine. ICEs are obviously used on a smaller scale, but still.

Basically, his character is like Magneeto(?) They can levitate and grab anything metal without even touching it physically.

Yep, but he was talking about COAL steam power I believe. Not just steam power in general.

[Vistora]

Basically, his character is like Magneeto(?) They can levitate and grab anything metal without even touching it physically.

Sounds he learned most of his genetics from Bioshock.

Yep, but he was talking about COAL steam power I believe. Not just steam power in general.

Well, yeah, but still. Still though. Still.

[Empire of Donner land]

Basically, his character is like Magneeto(?) They can levitate and grab anything metal without even touching it physically.

Sounds he learned most of his genetics from Bioshock.

Yep, but he was talking about COAL steam power I believe. Not just steam power in general.

Well, yeah, but still. Still though. Still.

When it comes down to it, I'm the third, maybe fourth realistic in the region.

But then again, my Nations citizens are 100% Loyal and will take up arms against any foreign agressor Man, Woman and Child. All in all, I pretty much have a Reserve of 700 Million Soliders if I'm invaded. And that's IF I want my economy to crumble to unrecognizable peices.

[The United Remnants of America]

Ugh. More posts.

[Vistora]

Ugh. More posts.

Don't feel too pressured to post. If you're not in the mood or don't have the time to draft up a lengthy multi-paragraph account, just suffice with perhaps a line of dialogue or two. Really, all you need to do is have one of your characters weigh in on the decision, and not even that is particularly imminent.

[Vistora]

Sounds he learned most of his genetics from Bioshock.



Well, yeah, but still. Still though. Still.

When it comes down to it, I'm the third, maybe fourth realistic in the region.

But then again, my Nations citizens are 100% Loyal and will take up arms against any foreign agressor Man, Woman and Child. All in all, I pretty much have a Reserve of 700 Million Soliders if I'm invaded. And that's IF I want my economy to crumble to unrecognizable peices.

Damn. Our "live" forces number only 20,000 VSOP personnel, and they are somewhat overpaid to stop them from, upon graduation from the academy, taking up a juicy offer from some PMC. Usually it's not an issue, but Vistoran culture contains a Germany-esque phobia of overt nationalism and even patriotism.

[Ashkera]

Ah, it feels kinda good to be using an actual flag as my forum avatar again. I bet people were forgetting what it looked like. Don't worry, though, I have something planned for the next Animu Flag Day.

When it comes down to it, I'm the third, maybe fourth realistic in the region.

But then again, my Nations citizens are 100% Loyal and will take up arms against any foreign agressor Man, Woman and Child. All in all, I pretty much have a Reserve of 700 Million Soliders if I'm invaded. And that's IF I want my economy to crumble to unrecognizable peices.

We have a guy in my region that has an economy where people just kind of do whatever is needed. ...and it's Modern Tech. He does say that it doesn't look good on normal economic metrics, and didn't start to get serious power tech until green tech started showing up, but yeah.

Funny enough, even though in Ashkera most of the population are armed and trained to fight, not even I have the 100% defense thing going on. Internal political factions, man. The pro-democracy activists are gonna stay home unless it's fascists that are invading.

edit: ...Though, given random NS invasions, random fascists have a good chance over invading compared to liberal democracies. In which case, if the invasion isn't repelled swiftly, there would probably be a civil war afterwards. North Ashkera and South Ashkera. What could go wrong?

[Vistora]

Ah, it feels kinda good to be using an actual flag as my forum avatar again. I bet people were forgetting what it looked like. Don't worry, though, I have something planned for the next Animu Flag Day.

When it comes down to it, I'm the third, maybe fourth realistic in the region.

But then again, my Nations citizens are 100% Loyal and will take up arms against any foreign agressor Man, Woman and Child. All in all, I pretty much have a Reserve of 700 Million Soliders if I'm invaded. And that's IF I want my economy to crumble to unrecognizable peices.

We have a guy in my region that has an economy where people just kind of do whatever is needed. ...and it's Modern Tech. He does say that it doesn't look good on normal economic metrics, and didn't start to get serious power tech until green tech started showing up, but yeah.

Funny enough, even though in Ashkera most of the population are armed and trained to fight, not even I have the 100% defense thing going on. Internal political factions, man. The pro-democracy activists are gonna stay home unless it's fascists that are invading.

Whatever is needed? Like, say a bridge needs building. Does everybody just grumble a little, pull out their toolboxes, and set to work with no sort of financial remuneration?

[Ashkera]

Whatever is needed? Like, say a bridge needs building. Does everybody just grumble a little, pull out their toolboxes, and set to work with no sort of financial remuneration?

Re-reading the factbooks, it seems I oversimplified. Apparently in-kind labour and other donations are allowed in lieu of ordinary taxation. As for the rest of it, it's not entirely clear, but money behaves in a non-standard way, and all companies... might? be cooperatives. It's not quite clear exactly what's going on, but I don't think it fits with human nature quite right.

In international relations, it's noted for Ashkera that Ashkeran advisors keep telling them to adopt a more traditionalist economy under the Ashkeran model*, and Ashkeran companies have had trouble making inroads there.

In international relations for the country with no army (different country), it's noted that Ashkeran advisors frequently tell them to get an army. That's more realistic in the modern era, though. One could free ride on other nations' military power without human nature being different.

(*Nationalist Technocratic Welfare Capitalism? I don't feel it's adequately described by just "welfare capitalism" because the government is acting more like an economy-boosting rational actor, and using its power to break deadlocks and local minimums in the system.)

[Excidium Planetis]

While this is all very interesting, the plasma rings generated by the team only hold together for "tens of milliseconds", and travel "up to two feet", neither of which are useful properties for weapons.

And while a self-containing magnetic field solves one of the major past problems of plasma (how to contain it), that is just one of the problems associated with plasma weapons being used in atmospheric conditions. Probably the largest, in my opinion, is the fact that plasma projectiles encounter a serious foe in air resistance, as they have really low mass for their surface area (yeah, this might not be the case with all plasma, but since plasma is usually less dense than gas, it is a problem).

Not to mention the current device is quite large, as even projected future models will be the size of a bread box. I don't want to be carrying around a bread box-sized weapon on a battlefield, do you?

I'm not saying we'll be toting plasma pistols around by next week, I'm merely demonstrating an important proof-of-concept that, at the very least, hints at the possibility of plasma weaponry not being so completely beyond the reach of known science as you previously claimed it to be. I'm not claiming they'll be at all practical, or even particularly viable. Just that they are perhaps possible.

I still claim atmospheric plasma weapon technology to be completely beyond the reach of known science. The demonstrated technology shows no feasible weapons applications, and certainly lacks the properties needed for Blak's Mach 5 plasma rifles.

Another problem I hadn't even considered until I reread an old essay on the folly of plasma weapons (which, unfortunately, used slower sci-fi plasma boltsas examples instead of the much faster ones here, and then brought up the containment problem), was that the plasma projectile (in this case the ring) will no longer be contained when it strikes the target, and thus a great deal of the projectile's mass will fly off in random directions rather than into the target. While that would make for a fairly neat explosive, it would be bad for armor penetration, and it is questionable whether the explosion would effect infantry, given that the plasma is only stable for milliseconds even with the containment field, and without it would dissipate very quickly.

[Empire of Donner land]

Ah, it feels kinda good to be using an actual flag as my forum avatar again. I bet people were forgetting what it looked like. Don't worry, though, I have something planned for the next Animu Flag Day.

When it comes down to it, I'm the third, maybe fourth realistic in the region.

But then again, my Nations citizens are 100% Loyal and will take up arms against any foreign agressor Man, Woman and Child. All in all, I pretty much have a Reserve of 700 Million Soliders if I'm invaded. And that's IF I want my economy to crumble to unrecognizable peices.

We have a guy in my region that has an economy where people just kind of do whatever is needed. ...and it's Modern Tech. He does say that it doesn't look good on normal economic metrics, and didn't start to get serious power tech until green tech started showing up, but yeah.

Funny enough, even though in Ashkera most of the population are armed and trained to fight, not even I have the 100% defense thing going on. Internal political factions, man. The pro-democracy activists are gonna stay home unless it's fascists that are invading.

Wanna know how I got past internal political factions?

Have a nation that has been in constant threat of war and destruction throughout history and have a history of being the most savage fighters against foreign agressors. Bury that within your national identity and culture making it encouraged to join the Armed Forces and serve your nation wether you're in the Military or not. Left, Right, Centre? It's all Donnish to me, serve your country or you won't have one. That's our motto (totally not changing the one I have now).

Isreal, Finland, Russia, Switzerland and late war Germany all rolled up into one.

Old people with Bolt Action rifles will be standing next to Young Donnish Rangers full clad in their gear in a trench with a few Teenagers buried in the sand holding Explosives and a Knife. Now give your Citizens the knowledge of a extremely lethal CQC martial art.

You're entire populace is Trained killers and know Guerilla warfare from Elementary to High School.

That 3 Million Man/Woman Military I have doesent looks so tiny now does it?

Tl;dr: My people are bat shit crazy and will fight for the mother land until last man, woman and child with a fork if needed.

[Ashkera]

Realistically, it's difficult to achieve that level of unity without brainwashing. People do it all the time on NS, though, and lots of countries obsessively invade in a way that also isn't realistic.

I could have gone for more unity, but I wanted to explain why Technocratic Crypto-Oligarchy is good for Ashkera - more importantly, why it's better for Ashkera than Representative Democracy, which appears to be the best government yet for living conditions - and where this peculiar institution came from. Also, why do they lock down on ideas so hard when living conditions alone would keep them in power?

Thus, their first experiment with democracy ended with a very bloody civil war, and their second with a nuclear containment breach.

[Chzeng]

Realistically, it's difficult to achieve that level of unity without brainwashing. People do it all the time on NS, though, and lots of countries obsessively invade in a way that also isn't realistic.

That's why playing as a freedumb nation is bad when someone comes at your doorstep. Unless of course you have a culture of self-defence, which I doubt would be there any more if you're a freedumb one, and even then it's hard to muster civil power with dead traditions alone.

Even the Volkssturm, given its context, wasn't that well done.

[Gigaverse]

Realistically, it's difficult to achieve that level of unity without brainwashing.

*whistles even though I can't IRL*

That's why playing as a freedumb nation is bad when someone comes at your doorstep. Unless of course you have a culture of self-defence, which I doubt would be there any more if you're a freedumb one, and even then it's hard to muster civil power with dead traditions alone..

However...

Most freedumb nations on NS are dumber than they are free.

[Empire of Donner land]

Realistically, it's difficult to achieve that level of unity without brainwashing. People do it all the time on NS, though, and lots of countries obsessively invade in a way that also isn't realistic.

I could have gone for more unity, but I wanted to explain why Technocratic Crypto-Oligarchy is good for Ashkera - more importantly, why it's better for Ashkera than Representative Democracy, which appears to be the best government yet for living conditions - and where this peculiar institution came from. Also, why do they lock down on ideas so hard when living conditions alone would keep them in power?

Thus, their first experiment with democracy ended with a very bloody civil war, and their second with a nuclear containment breach.

There's brainwashing involved, but its more of a pressuring kind of way having been buried in years of struggle. Conforming to the standard and all that. Hell, your parents could disown you if you refused to join the Military if they wanted to in Donner Land. Dishonorable and all that. Some, if the nation were to be defeated and occupied, would commit suicide, Continue fighting or just live in defeat. Most would continue fighting, the Donnish (More specifically the Ulianish) are a Warrior people.

And of course, there's always those that go "5 Million troops invade Nation A." Even if their logistics would break it's back into a million tiny peices.

Realistically, it's difficult to achieve that level of unity without brainwashing. People do it all the time on NS, though, and lots of countries obsessively invade in a way that also isn't realistic.

That's why playing as a freedumb nation is bad when someone comes at your doorstep. Unless of course you have a culture of self-defence, which I doubt would be there any more if you're a freedumb one, and even then it's hard to muster civil power with dead traditions alone.

Even the Volkssturm, given its context, wasn't that well done.

We don't have an organized Militia, or conscripts, the Draft doesent exist. It's purely just expected of the populace, even if some don't fight, alot will. And that's only in the case that the nation is facing certain defeat, and the enemy is invading the nation.

The Military in its self is almost purely self defense. A small portion gets deployed now and then to assist in International Incidents. But mostly they keep to them selves. Afterall, Donner Land is almost purely made out of Xenophobes and those that hate Monarchy with a passion because of the November Revolution.

They aren't freedumb. Their just pretty much fanatically devoted to protecting their nation. If it ain't in danger, they won't risk their lives.

[Singaporean Transhumans]

We don't have an organized Militia, or conscripts, the Draft doesent exist. It's purely just expected of the populace, even if some don't fight, alot will. And that's only in the case that the nation is facing certain defeat, and the enemy is invading the nation.

The Military in its self is almost purely self defense. A small portion gets deployed now and then to assist in International Incidents. But mostly they keep to them selves. Afterall, Donner Land is almost purely made out of Xenophobes and those that hate Monarchy with a passion because of the November Revolution.

They aren't freedumb. Their just pretty much fanatically devoted to protecting their nation. If it ain't in danger, they won't risk their lives.

Didn't say you were.