To Change a Nation. (MT - OOC - Planning/Signup/Brainstorm)

[Min Nan]

just change it~just simple,history keep on repeating

[Iotor]

As for the 2020s, setting, I already stated that I'd wish to avoid it. Especially anything by Tom Clancy

Well, I never actually read any of his books, and Ive only played one of his games, so I don't actually know much about Tom Clancy. I just really like the game EndWar.

So I advise you, let's use 2000s tech, our contemporary tech, which we can reference with wikipedia and a few military sites

The main reason I wanted to go with 2020's, is that economic wars would be more likely with resources dwindling and what have you. But, compromise is essential here, so I tell you what, 2005-2010 tech. AND, we use some fictional sites, because although wikipedia has lots of normal, up-to-date information and is a genuinely good reference site, it lacks creativity. I mean, Wikipedia has these long, drooling pages giving stat upon stat (I mean, its realistic, but I don't think we just wanna use the most conventional thing we can find), and its not like they have all the stuff that the military, or special forces are using. If you don't agree, then I'm open to barter.

We just have to keep in mind that some people have created their own weapons within Nationstates universe's (Myself included, though not to a large extent), and I figured with a site that had set equipment and technology, then we could quickly say "Those specifications, and that's what they might look like". That way we wouldn't have to spend hours pawing through wikipedia's assault rifle pages, body armor pages, camo pages, etc. We would just have a solid base of what they were, and how they do their job.

instead focus on our wit and creativity and try to make a good RP

The main thing here is that we're at a stage where war is about information, and espionage has no set sides. And yeah, I agree, those kinds of sites may make good games, but not always good stories. But stories were never entirely about being realistic.

Also, I don't imagine anyone would look too kindly to Iotor blatantly having provinces just for the purpose of Uranium/resource mining. So why not have your storefronts have claim to the land with said resources? That way everyone's happy.

Hmmm, yeah, your idea actually works better...So I'm going to take it and use it as my own

I don't think you'll really need a map of Iotor, since its just a really big island and yeah, and I'd only be in the war when it comes to those yummy resource deposits. Unless you really want one a map, otherwise...Yeah

Seriously though, EndWar, awesome game.

[Nuekallaya]

Hey there, I haven't been involved in any NS roleplaying in... well, years. I used to be pretty prolific with it before so I'm getting back into it now and rebooting my nation. Since you're also working in national changes, perhaps we can coordinate a bit? Nuekallaya is a democratic socialist nation with a very strong executive branch. According to NS statistics it's a freakin' powerhouse, but I'd like to RP it as a smaller, poorer nation. Something comparable a few of the more modern and well-off middle-eastern nations, like Turkey and Iran. To go along with my reboot, Nuekallaya went through a revolution about six years ago, and is just now really getting back on its feet. The pre-revolutionary government was very traditionalist and became very repressive after my own coup d'etat towards the end, when it also defaulted on its international loans - which were substantial. As for my nation's culture and all that good stuff, think of the Caucasus mountains - Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan. Ethnically, the people are Iranic. Note that's Iranic, not specifically Iranian... the closest modern ethnicity to what I have in mind would be Ossetian. The dominant religion is Zoroastrianism (you might have to look that one up, I did the first time), but the state doesn't support any religion. I'm afraid I don't have a factbook up yet, but I hope to soon.

Now I have a paper due soon and I was recently invited to get involved in my university's... something I don't understand that will be hugely beneficial to my career, so I don't expect to do a lot of RPing. I just want to get started getting back in. I think a great way would be to establish a prior relationship between your nation and mine. The military government may have defaulted on your loans, the pre-revolutionary government may have had some economic or military deals with you, or you could be interested in the revolutionary government for whatever reason you like. Like I said, I don't intend to be terribly active, maybe a few posts a week, hopefully more, but you could always use Nuekallaya as some kind of third party, or interest in Nuekallaya as the motivation for something.

[Neo Prutenia]

Funny thing- I read his books, never played the games. Well, not in person. A friend of mine loves them. To be bland, contemporary tech means or 2000s means tech used in this period , so abything from 2001 to 2010 is fair game. But keep in mind that no army has an entire up to date top notch army - most tank, ship even small arms designes are 20 to even 30 years old, with periodic updates. Even if you managed to design a new, super aircraft, you wouldn't have 1000, you'd have 20 to 50 max, and they would be expensive as hell compared to the old, proven and familiar models.

A new planes might be better, but maintainance, repar, reserve parts, crews, engineers and technicians with the expertise to keep them operational and what not, makes them expensive. Same goes for any new equipment really. As for referincing wikipedia/similar sites, I just ment it for a general use we can all agree upon. Who cares what the specific firepower of a gun or kynethic impact of a missile is? The only thing important is that we now approximately how far contemporary vehicles can operate and how far a small arm shoots. Technical details are unimportant - we shouldn't make an issue out of it. If we played a 19th century napoleonic war, then the range of a rifle would be important, but playing a early 21th century war - logistics, supplies, tactics and military doctrine play a much, much more vital role then the range of the Prut main assault rifle and the Vedrenheim equivalent.

But, I do agree that some technical elements should be present. Then again, if such things should be needed, something we can easily reference, prove or disprove is much better then something we think siunds plausible. If, for example, I state that my armies main asault rifle is similar in peformance, if not the same, as for example the Zastava M70B, then everybody can see what the gun is about, and compare it to equivalent weapons used by other armies - american or original russian equivalents. And no arguments about it - these weapons have proven themselves in real world conflicts as operational, and the experience of real soldiers is backing up any claim I could make with them. Same goes for any piece of equipment.

For diversity, we could establish small differences in performance. Perhaps both Iotor, and Neo Prutenia, base their weapon on the polish Kbs wz. 1996 Beryl, a very nice weapon. Now, perhaps Iotor's version has been modified for greater range, according to their military tactics, while the Prut version has greater range of fire. And the Vedrenheim version could perhaps, again, according to their strategy, have a greater magazine - similar and comparable weapons, but each with its own advantages. The Iotor version would excell at outdistancing enemis, especially during offense and tactical retreats, the Prut version would excell at maintaining the initiative on the battlefield, and the Vedrenheim version would give troops more staying power. Accuracy and reliabilty would remain roughly the same. Again, these are just examples. We can expand upon these conditions ad infinitum.

Further, wars are always fought for resources, or even better to say, money. Regardless of age - the crusades of the 10th to 13th century, the many colonial wars, napoleonic wars, both WW were fought for money and resources. That won't change a single bit in 2020, or even 2220. Vedrenheim whants to expand for many reasons, - mainly as a means to keep it's population preoccupied with something else then domestic issues and to feed it's evergrowing arms industry and military. I might present myself as a savior, but I just want a greater market for my economy. From who do you think will the liberated NPC states buy weapons to defend themselves after the war, or even during and before? And who is going to milk them dry during the reconstruction of their homelands? Yap. me. Not to forget the revenues from the awsome movies and video games we'll make based on the conflict.

Will see whom you'll join in the end - but so far, It seems that you will play Italy - being with Vedrenheim at first, then quickly joinning Neo Prutenia as it stomps over the Vedrenforces, to take a few spoils of war for urself.

[Iotor]

Well, I believe we have an effective compromise. But that brings up another set questions of mine.

- Is this going to focused on espionage, or war? or both equally?

-Also, is war going to be a strategy thing, or just an element for roleplay?
As in, will military strategy actually be plotted out and played like a small turn based strategy game, or just acted out? Cos Id prefer if it was just acted out

damn, they don't have a smiley with a thumbs up. I guess this will have to do

[Neo Prutenia]

Well, I believe we have an effective compromise. But that brings up another set questions of mine.

- Is this going to focused on espionage, or war? or both equally?

-Also, is war going to be a strategy thing, or just an element for roleplay?
As in, will military strategy actually be plotted out and played like a small turn based strategy game, or just acted out? Cos Id prefer if it was just acted out

damn, they don't have a smiley with a thumbs up. I guess this will have to do

Hm, well, I'd say that it will depend on general mood, but I think espionage and war will go hand in hand equally. Perhaps esiponage will be more prominent in the beginning, and go into the background after the war breaks out. We'll see that with Vedrenheim. Take into account that there will be also diplomacy, character rolepaly and development, propaganda - both on the homefront and on the battlefield, etc. I don't know for you two, but I'm going to run a newpaper article every other post or so.

As for your second question - I think I don't understand what you mean? Could you elaborate more what you ment? Well, so far strategy means a general plan on how to win the war - for example, Vedrenheim war strategy might br Blitzkrieg-like, while mine would be a defensive war of attrition. But I don't think thats what you ment. If you wanted to know how detailed we'll play out the war - it will probably be played on a operational level, with a few key battles in more details. Common courtesy demands that you don't answer your own post - meaning, you always wait for another to post before you proceed. That would perhaps be the turn based strategy thing you mentioned.

Being that there is 9h time difference between Vedrenheim and me, our posts will be somewhat longer and more detailed, and most communication regarding battle successes and espionag progress will go by telegram, so that we are free to post things in a more descriptive manner - aka the acted out thing you mentioned. Correct me if I misunderstood your questions, or didn't provide an sufficent answer.

Now, Nuekallaya, you seem like an interesting participant. Perhaps you could be a neighbor of Vedrenheim who is ina strategically unimportant part of the region, like some kind of Swiss. Perhaps you could just play it out as the media of your country taking notice and reporting the conflict, maiking diplomatic moves to stay neutral, accept some refugees and so on. Basically, this would enable you to play on your own pace.

Well, we sure made several posts since Vedrenheim was online. I hope he'll read through all of it.

[Atom Anarchists]

So what exactly do we have so far?

[Neo Prutenia]

So what exactly do we have so far?

If you are to lazy or have no time to read everything through then; so far, we Vedrenheim and Neo Prutenia will establish two power blocks to fight each other. At first, it will be diplomatic fanfare, an allaince and joint occupation of a third party - imagine it like when the Soviets and Nazis divided Poland in real life, then it will proceed to be a small cold war - punctuated with heavy espionage and military build up - perhaps a few proxy wars. Then Vedrenheim will get aggressive and attack - for now we decided that Neo Prutenia should win in the end, but we'll see about that - anyway, Vedrenheim will then be driven back from Prut occupied territory, then the countries it occupied will be liberated and finally Vedrenheim itself will be assaulted. We still haven't really decided how it will end. I have to assume that it will go this way, being that I have a much stronger econmic base and production, while both Vedrenheim and I have comparably the same quality of troops. I just have more.

Iotor will play a third party, interested only in resources and making money. Both, Vedrenheim and Neo Prutenia will try to get Iotor on their side. Iotor, so far as I know, hasen't decided who he will support, or if he'll play both countries against each other. Correct me if I'm wrong Iotor. Now, what part would you like to play? Will you join the fighting on one side, or perhaps play one of the occupied countries? Or stay neutral?

[Iotor]

As for your second question - I think I don't understand what you mean?

To explain as best I can...

Will our army specifications actually have an effect on anything? As in, will there be a map that is constantly updated to display the position of everyone, and we are each left to decide if we should attack or etc. Like, will this be based upon having an actual war where we make moves.

But never mind, I read into a bit more, and yeah, since its already planned whose going to win and how, I don't think we're going to need to actually need to have a 'Strategy game' as opposed to the role play.
And yes, you did effectively answer my question, seeing as battles will be decided before hand, and not during the role play.

Correct me if I'm wrong Iotor.

You are correct

[Neo Prutenia]

Will our army specifications actually have an effect on anything? As in, will there be a map that is constantly updated to display the position of everyone, and we are each left to decide if we should attack or etc. Like, will this be based upon having an actual war where we make moves.

But never mind, I read into a bit more, and yeah, since its already planned whose going to win and how, I don't think we're going to need to actually need to have a 'Strategy game' as opposed to the role play.
And yes, you did effectively answer my question, seeing as battles will be decided before hand, and not during the role play.

Yes, pretty much like that, BUT remember also that I said that battles and progress will be dynamic. So there will be a map for marking our movements and deployment, but it will be only periodically updated, not constantly. For example when another country is conquered/liberated, and such things. Nothing fancy, just to keep the war going. And the specifications of your forces will play some part - but then only in determijning behavior, effects, war weariness and such things of the soldiers, and to a certain degree, they will affect battle tactics and strategy. For example, Prut soldiers never sacrifice themselves in vain, or make suicide attacks, and they are far more effective on defense then offense. So Vedrenheim and you can make plans according to those facts - i.e. you can plan heavy assaults knowing that my forces would rather retreat then face to great casualties, and rely on the fact that they will behave as anticipated.

This is mainly to spice things up for roleplay. And its a factor in propaganda warfare. And as for the who's going to win part, I won't use my full military capabilities. Far to expensive - especially if you consider that Neo Prutenia herself won't be threattened directly. I will use either 1 or 2 armies, which is 100.000 to 200.000 thousand soldiers, considering that Vedrenheims army is 70.000, plus conscripts/militias perhaps, this will keep the fight fair. Of course, if he's mad enough to attack Neo Prutenia proper, I'll steamroll him. Take into account that my man won't fight to defend their home country, they will fight to liberate some schmucks in the neighborhood and perhaps pimpslap Vedrenheim for making noise, so I won't be able to persuade my Parliament or people to fight as hard and as otherwise possible.

[Atom Anarchists]

If you are to lazy or have no time to read everything through then... Now, what part would you like to play? Will you join the fighting on one side, or perhaps play one of the occupied countries? Or stay neutral?

No time to read through all of that. I could RP an occupied country.

[Neo Prutenia]

No time to read through all of that. I could RP an occupied country.

Understandable. Most of it is only why/what/when talk. A rules summary will be given in the end by the Op, Vedrenheim in this case. Now, playing a occupied country would not only be awsome, but very respectable. You should work details out with Ved, but I'm going for sure to support any kind of liberation movement/insurgency on your soil. And latter help you out free your lands and Kick Vedrenheims ass. Sounds good?

[Atom Anarchists]

Muy bien.

I actually think I'd like to do a country run by a group essentially like the FLDS: autocratic control by a leader, a blindly observant populace, and a constant need to protect polygamy and the good life for the rich and influential by draining young men through emigration, imprisonment... and conflict. Such a group could be very good for starting an insurgency if they feel their way of life is threatened. The local government under occupation could probably quietly sponsor insurgents, or at least not stand in their way.

No objections to supporting a bunch of nutcases?

[Neo Prutenia]

None at all. As long as theiy are humane nutcases, we can ignore any custom, tradition and/or religion they practice. It would even be an interesting clash of cultures during the war.

[Vedrenheim]

I've been reading over the last few posts you all have been making, and I have decided on a number of choices for this RP thus far, they are listed as follows :

-The war will be set in the 2000-2010 time period. Not one year later. We will use technology that is available to us in this world here and now. Of course, as Neo Prutenia pointed out, certain technologies (such as jet engines that take in less fuel) can indeed turn the tide of the war, so I don't think that it would be a problem if we used custom technologies so long as they were very small, and as NP said, equalized us in the end, but gave us an advantage in the short-term.

-The war will follow this BASIC outline that I have thought up. Note that this is just going to be the skeleton for the RP, and obviously, there are going to be FAAR more events associated with said 'skeleton', in otherwords, this is the roleplay's plot guideline. Also take note that I have only decided what me and NP are going to be doing. Iotor and Atom Anarchists, I need more input from you before I can fit you into this skeleton.

Phase 1 : Vedrenheim undergoes a military coup. The ruling party is then changed, and as the years go on, this party's power is consolidated and Vedrenheim is then changed over to the influence of the ruling party, which I have yet to announce, the ruling party will be announced when the RP starts.

Phase 2: Vedrenheim/NP will dispatch spies to the conquerable countries to site out that country's defenses in preparation for an assault. Around this time, Iotor is becoming more and more friendly with Vedrenheim for the purpose of gathering resources to aid its dying economy. Vedrenheim also gives funds to Novistrai in an attempt to gain a serf state, but is denied at first. Later gaining Novistrai's allegiance as it realizes it has no one else to turn to but Vedrenheim.

Phase 3: Vedrenheim/NP invade the countries that they dispatched probes into, conquer them, and live in peace with eachother as their empires consolidate in power. Novistrai's primary resistance group, the Novia Steel Wolves, arise and attempt to take it over.

Phase 4: As their empires continually become more stable and more and more resistance groups from the conquered countries are put down (with the exception of AA's group which continues to resist death) they look towards eachother each day with less and less warmth then they did before. Spies are dispatched to eachother's countries. The 'Cold War' begins. Vedrenheim sends troops into Novistrai, per its leader's command in an attempt to suppress the rebellion there.

Phase 5: Vedrenheim begins invasion of NP-controlled territory, all-out war breaks out. Vedrenheim and Novistrai go to war with NP and AA's group, with Iotor being officially 'neutral', though it dispatches military forces to guard its 'interests'.

Phase 6: NP defeats Vedrenheim's offensive and pushes into its occupied territories, liberating the countries and surrounding the Vedrenheim homeland itself.

Phase 7: Vedrenheim makes a last stand as it fights to defend its home country. Although NP is the victor in any scenario that happens from here onwards, Vedrenheim can either completely surrender or have an armistice, retaining its independence.


If ANYONE notices something wrong with this BASIC timeline, please notify me and I will change it posthaste. I still need some input from Atom Anarchists and Iotor SPECIFICALLY on what they're going to be doing in this RP.

[Atom Anarchists]

I was viewing this a it differently. From what I thought, my nation would be run by the psuedo-FLDS group from the start. This group is then displaced when you invade and they have an officially pro-occupation government. Things go roughly as planned for a while, and token resistance goes down. Following the start of the "Cold War," an insurgency flares up and becomes allied with NP. The insurgents are sponsored or protected by some, but not all, members of the new government and its defense and law enforcement apparatus. Eventually, they seize control of their country again, and maybe participate in some way in the final offensive.

Both the new government and the insurgents are likely to have their own factions as well.

[Neo Prutenia]

I was viewing this a it differently. From what I thought, my nation would be run by the psuedo-FLDS group from the start. This group is then displaced when you invade and they have an officially pro-occupation government. Things go roughly as planned for a while, and token resistance goes down. Following the start of the "Cold War," an insurgency flares up and becomes allied with NP. The insurgents are sponsored or protected by some, but not all, members of the new government and its defense and law enforcement apparatus. Eventually, they seize control of their country again, and maybe participate in some way in the final offensive.

Both the new government and the insurgents are likely to have their own factions as well.

To be honest, that sounds really good. It will give more depth to the RP, and add a new layer to the whole thing. With Vedrenheim's coup and expansion, and later defeat, Iotor's diplomatic and economic moves, your little civil war, let's call it like that, and my liberation war, we'll actually have 4 separate stories mixed together - l belive that will be good RP material and potential.

[Vedrenheim]

I was viewing this a it differently. From what I thought, my nation would be run by the psuedo-FLDS group from the start. This group is then displaced when you invade and they have an officially pro-occupation government. Things go roughly as planned for a while, and token resistance goes down. Following the start of the "Cold War," an insurgency flares up and becomes allied with NP. The insurgents are sponsored or protected by some, but not all, members of the new government and its defense and law enforcement apparatus. Eventually, they seize control of their country again, and maybe participate in some way in the final offensive.

Both the new government and the insurgents are likely to have their own factions as well.

Got it. I was actually unsure if you were going to be on NP's side or were going to be your own faction, but I'll edit the skeleton to fit it.

[Iotor]

This would be the phases from Iotor's POV
(Sorry to be a copypasta, but it was easier to do it this way)

Phase 1 : Iotor is teetering on the edge of a financial crisis, due to a rapidly increasing population and the strains it puts on the military via Iotor's compulsory military service doctrine. For the first time in nearly 150 years, Iotor looks to the international market as a major source of income.

Phase 2: After reviewing their trade agreement's, Iotor notes Vedrenheim as one of their key economic traders, whom they've been buying uranium and oil from for a decade. They begin to look into furthering this trade with adjacent nations.

Phase 3: Iotor begins to setup new resource income centers around the globe, and dispatches military level spies into war torn nations to look for opportunities.

Phase 4: Iotor's High Command notices the tensions between Vedrenheim and Neo Prutenia, and Iotor urges both nations not to fight (Lest they risk Iotor's economic interest in Vedrenheim).

Phase 5: After news of Vedrenheim's invasion, Iotor dispatches its higher level army units in small numbers to protect its interests in the region.

Phase 6: Feeling it is about to get caught in the crossfire, Iotor warns that if either side attacks their troops, they will respond by joining the opposing side (OOOH, intrigue!).

Phase 7: Vedrenheim is attacked and one of the possibilites occurs. Should Vedrenheim be crippled by the war, then Iotor will send out aid in the form of its newly founded international trade corporations, using the guise to secretly setup shop on some of Vedrenheim's more lucrative resource bundles.

That's the part Ive had in mind. And of, course, suggestions are freely accepted.

[Novistrai]

I’m willing to join this RP, since I have recently rejoined I think I can make my new nation work.

Phase 1: The Democratic Republic of Novistrai gains its independence from foreign influence after a powerful NS collapses. However, within three weeks the former head of the disbanded Secret Police, Validsky Karasov, overthrows the government and establishes a dictatorship and one party state while the military brutally puts down open resistance forcing numerous revolutionary and political groups underground.

Phase 2: The Novistrai economy begins to take a nose dive as foreign countries begin to pull out investments. However, the economy stabilises when Imperial Vedrenheim sends a large amount of funds to gain a client state. Karasov refuses the funds at first believing that it will make him seem weak to his people, but realises that his country is in no position to resist.

Phase 3: Karasov sends ‘volunteers’ to aid Vedrenheim in their conquest. Around this time Karasov crushes the last pro-democracy group, leading to several radical revolutionary groups emerging. The most noticeable are the ‘Novia Steel Wolves’ lead by twenty-five year old Nikolai Dombrovski, whose parents were arrested and then murdered by Karasov ten years ago, when Karasov was a Secret Police Officer. Karasov’s brutalities from that act lead to his eventually rise to head of the Secret Police. So unlike the rest of the revolutionaries Nikolai’s task is personal, he want revenge for his parents, nothing else matters.

Phase 4: As the Cold War starts Karasov begins to get paranoid of the people around him and begins to purge the military, secret police, and his advisors. The purges seep into the streets of the nation causing a mass protest rallies organised by various revolutionary groups who want Karasov to stand down as President. In response Karasov asks Vedrenheim to send troops into his country to put down the protestors. Should Vedrenheim agree to do so several revolutionary groups will band together with the ‘Novia Steel Wolves’ at the helm in the name of Nationalism. If Vedrenheim chooses not to Karasov will order his military to put down the protestors by any means possible, leading to a mass slaughter in the streets of the major cities. His will cause discontent amongst military and political figures leading to them approach several revolutionary groups to put down Karasov.

Phase 5: As the war breaks out, Karasov declares war in support of Vedrenheim believing that a win in the war will boost his support and end the revolutionary activities. However, it soon turns out that the country is not ready for war, but the forces do make minor victories, which clouds Karasov’s judgement.

Phase 6: The tide turns and after a major defeat, Nikolai Dombrovski and his supporters take an open revolution out on the streets of the nation. The method differs depending on what happened previously, in the story. Karasov is killed, and Novistrai changes sides and declears war on Vedrenheim blaming them for the suffering of their nation. The vengeful new army liberates several countries under Vedrenheim occupation.

Phase 7: Novistrian troops move into Vedrenheim itself and fights alongside NP’s forces. At the end of the war depending on what happened the ending will be different. If Vedrenhiem surrenders, a number of war-crimes will be committed behind the back of NP by Novistrian forces against the civilian population. If an armistice is signed Novistria will launch a terror attack on the remaining leadership of the nation as an act of revenge.

[Vedrenheim]

Aye, aye, you can join. I'll make edits to the skeleton ASAP for Iotor, AA, as well as Novistrai.

[Vedrenheim]

I have updated the skeleton to fit AA's, Iotor's, and Novistrai's specifications. Please tell me if it needs to be edited more.

I'm going to start the coup thread for Vedrenheim soon, but I was wondering, maybe we could just have a uni-thread for all of us, detailing what we we're all doing in phase 1? That way we won't have a bunch of threads popping up all over the forums over one part of the RP, and we won't have to skim around to find out what's happening to another nation. We'd just have one thread were we would all get together and RP out the phase. Sound good? Any thoughts?

[Iotor]

I hate to sound like an idiot here but...

Wha?

[Vedrenheim]

I hate to sound like an idiot here but...

Wha?

Example:

-Vedrenheim undergoes a coup during Phase 1, as does Novistrai, but the two do not interact ICly at all during this period. But, instead of making two seperate threads for two different Phase 1 actions, we just make one thread for all the Phase 1 actions and just RP it in there so as to make it more organized.

Comprende?

[Iotor]

Comprende?

Comprende, thanks