[TWI ONLY] The Senate of the Western Isles

[Locuterris]

Is writing a few sentences really so burdensome? I personally always read officer reports. Also, I don't think many nations read every RMB post. There is simply no reason to, as it is is extremely time-consuming and most posts are irrelevant to anyone's own nation anyway. It is good to see everything that happens in one, easy to read place.

Also, laws need to be taken seriously. If the president doesn't, don't you think other nations will see fit to disregard them, since they may believe that they will go unpunished.

TWI needs someone that takes everything seriously to be president, not someone known throughout the regional government for not doing their duties properly.

Also, not every nation takes the government seriously, or cares about it. So the fact that there isn't ridiculously high amounts of reads is a ridiculous argument. Mik, most of your 'warship' reads are by insolent little nations that just care about war, not the region. The report reads are by people who are important to TWI.

[Vancouvia]

I think the officer accountability act should be repealed as it is just an annoyance to officers that does not do much, the fact that I am glad that I no longer have to waste time in my life to do something that has no use what so ever makes me rather glad. As for making the president do a state of the Isles address, I would be up for it, but only if Miklania consented. It is his time that would be taken away and as it is Nation States is a time vortex, sucking away time in your life, to devote more time to it is an awful thing and one of the main reasons I resigned as SoI.

He's not going to be president forever; we should not give up good laws to the whims of officers.

[Polar Svalbard]

NS is not the most important thing in the world, I would agree with this, I think it is a good idea, just so long as the person is going to have the time to put in some thought to it. Because that's what it should be, not a few sentences. It should be detailed if that is what you are asking for, if you "want" it to be able to supplement people who, if they actually cared about regional government would already know about (Because lets be honest its more for those who don't care), then you need it to have material to it.

[Agadar]

NS is not the most important thing in the world, I would agree with this, I think it is a good idea, just so long as the person is going to have the time to put in some thought to it. Because that's what it should be, not a few sentences. It should be detailed if that is what you are asking for, if you "want" it to be able to supplement people who, if they actually cared about regional government would already know about (Because lets be honest its more for those who don't care), then you need it to have material to it.

A person who doesn't have the time or desire to write a brief dispatch every month shouldn't be the chief executive of the 24th most populated region in the entire game, so that is not a problem with executive reports, but rather with the man in the oval office.

As for the reports being 'more for those who don't care': if that were the case, then I wouldn't be suggesting a new way of executive reporting; rather, I'd only be suggesting the repeals. But I am not, as several people who are closely involved with the regional government have already expressed their desire for executive reports, myself included.

[Polar Svalbard]

That's my opinion on this, I will most likely vote aye to this but that is my position on it.

As a side note, what is your beef with Miklania, he does quite well as el presidente.

[Agadar]

That's my opinion on this, I will most likely vote aye to this but that is my position on it.

Your opinion is respected Polar. Now, I'm hoping we can get the opinions of our third colleague in on this, as well as Miklania's.

[Polar Svalbard]

That's my opinion on this, I will most likely vote aye to this but that is my position on it.

Your opinion is respected Polar. Now, I'm hoping we can get the opinions of our third colleague in on this, as well as Miklania's.

Yes those are necessary, although if my voucher base does not agree with this though I will go with their will as a side note.

[Agadar]

To answer your question, Polar: I have no beef with Miklania. The region's survived and thrived so far with him at the head of the executive. However, I disagree with his sentiment towards ignoring laws he doesn't feel like are useful. I believe it is not any executive's place to ignore laws. The executive exists solely to enforce the laws, all the laws, even the ones they disagree with. If we abandon that, then what are we but a group of lawless anarchists, doing whatever we like?

[Polar Svalbard]

I can agree with you on that, but I can also understand Mik's frustration. Although you do bring up quite a good point

[Miklania]

To answer your question, Polar: I have no beef with Miklania. The region's survived and thrived so far with him at the head of the executive. However, I disagree with his sentiment towards ignoring laws he doesn't feel like are useful. I believe it is not any executive's place to ignore laws. The executive exists solely to enforce the laws, all the laws, even the ones they disagree with. If we abandon that, then what are we but a group of lawless anarchists, doing whatever we like?

I obeyed the law until the point where it became more trouble than it was worth. The biggest problem with the law is the fact that the fact that officers have to take time out on a very specific day to be on this site and write something or be heckled mercilessly and threatened to be run out of office. Adding insult to injury is the fact that these reports are completely useless, unread by most of the region.

[Vancouvia]

To answer your question, Polar: I have no beef with Miklania. The region's survived and thrived so far with him at the head of the executive. However, I disagree with his sentiment towards ignoring laws he doesn't feel like are useful. I believe it is not any executive's place to ignore laws. The executive exists solely to enforce the laws, all the laws, even the ones they disagree with. If we abandon that, then what are we but a group of lawless anarchists, doing whatever we like?

I obeyed the law until the point where it became more trouble than it was worth. The biggest problem with the law is the fact that the fact that officers have to take time out on a very specific day to be on this site and write something or be heckled mercilessly and threatened to be run out of office. Adding insult to injury is the fact that these reports are completely useless, unread by most of the region.

You've written 10x what would have been necessary, fighting this. That's almost a whole's year worth of reports. It's 5/6

[Miklania]

I also fail to see compelling arguments as to why this law is needed, rather, I see ad hominem attacks against me and other officers. Suggesting that I am not fit for office because of laziness or any other personal characteristic is not a valid argument, and does not do anything to resolve the issue at hand.

Perhaps we should require each senator to fill out a report at the same time as the officers, detailing exactly what they have done each and every month of the year, or be removed from office if they fail to submit on time. As the Senate is where the real governing power is, I'm sure that the constituents would love to know what their precious voucher is being put towards.

I have the time to write this, and I have to opportunity to do so at my leisure. Being harassed by a Frenchman because I was on retreat and then moving into college one month after the other is a very different story.

[Miklania]

I obeyed the law until the point where it became more trouble than it was worth. The biggest problem with the law is the fact that the fact that officers have to take time out on a very specific day to be on this site and write something or be heckled mercilessly and threatened to be run out of office. Adding insult to injury is the fact that these reports are completely useless, unread by most of the region.

You've written 10x what would have been necessary, fighting this. That's almost a whole's year worth of reports. It's 5/6

Perhaps the report system should be extended to the WA Delegate as well, it's such an important position and yet I know next to nothing about why our regional representative votes the way he does. It would certainly be valuable to the entire community for Van to write a report on every WA issue he votes on and every resolution he helps author or edit.

[Taziristan]

You've written 10x what would have been necessary, fighting this. That's almost a whole's year worth of reports. It's 5/6

Perhaps the report system should be extended to the WA Delegate as well, it's such an important position and yet I know next to nothing about why our regional representative votes the way he does. It would certainly be valuable to the entire community for Van to write a report on every WA issue he votes on and every resolution he helps author or edit.

I would agree with this whole heartedly, but, as explained to me earlier, that would be a breach of Vancouvia's individual rights.

[Agadar]

Miklania, reading through your last few posts, you seem to propose two counter-arguments to executive reporting:

1. Officers have to take time out on a very specific day to be on this site and write something;
2. These reports are completely useless, unread by most of the region.

The first one is simply not true. You can begin writing the month's report as soon as the month starts. But you don't even have to, because it's not a book you're writing. Two paragraphs will already do. If you're aware of the movements of the executive branch, which as President you should be, then writing it shouldn't take more than, what, 15 minutes? Is that truly such a high price to pay to provide the community with executive reports? Is that too high a price to pay for being the region's head of government?

As for your second counter-argument, every single dispatch is unread by most of the region, so that's not really an argument. I also disagree they're 'completely useless', as I and others have stated many times already. We don't want to have to chase executives just to know what they've been up to.

Really, I'm having a hard time understanding why you're so absolutely hostile against the idea of writing something up every month that is probably the size of the average Executive Order. Like Vancouvia already mentioned, you've spend more time and text warring against the notion of writing executive reports than you would've spent on actually writing executive reports for the rest of 2016 and maybe half of 2017 as well.

[Miklania]

Miklania, reading through your last few posts, you seem to propose two counter-arguments to executive reporting:

1. Officers have to take time out on a very specific day to be on this site and write something;
2. These reports are completely useless, unread by most of the region.

The first one is simply not true. You can begin writing the month's report as soon as the month starts. But you don't even have to, because it's not a book you're writing. Two paragraphs will already do. If you're aware of the movements of the executive branch, which as President you should be, then writing it shouldn't take more than, what, 15 minutes? Is that truly such a high price to pay to provide the community with executive reports? Is that too high a price to pay for being the region's head of government?

As for your second counter-argument, every single dispatch is unread by most of the region, so that's not really an argument. I also disagree they're 'completely useless', as I and others have stated many times already. We don't want to have to chase executives just to know what they've been up to.

Really, I'm having a hard time understanding why you're so absolutely hostile against the idea of writing something up every month that is probably the size of the average Executive Order. Like Vancouvia already mentioned, you've spend more time and text warring against the notion of writing executive reports than you would've spent on actually writing executive reports for the rest of 2016 and maybe half of 2017 as well.

How can I write a report about the month until after the events of the month have transpired? I do not possess a magical mirror. Who knows when something worth mentioning in a report will actually happen? No one can post in advance.

It is an argument. The entire premise of the reports is to have people know what the officers do. If no one reads it, then the premise is not fulfilled. Therefore it is a bad law.

I am hostile to it because I'm sick and tired of having to write the damn things, and deal with people yelling at me fore not having it written up by an extremely arbitrary time (I'm referring to "noon" in whatever timezone PPU happens to be in). And all of this frustration for nothing! The law is utterly useless.

[Polar Svalbard]

If it seems fair, maybe the Court, Senate and the WA should, if we are accounting for one office we should account for all. Mik brings up a fair point there.

[Taziristan]

If it seems fair, maybe the Court, Senate and the WA should, if we are accounting for one office we should account for all. Mik brings up a fair point there.

Makes sense to me.

[Agadar]

If it seems fair, maybe the Court, Senate and the WA should, if we are accounting for one office we should account for all. Mik brings up a fair point there.

Every single thing that happens in the Court can be seen in the court region and its dispatches. Every single thing that happens in the Senate can be seen in the Senate thread. But, there is no such single place where we can find all of the executive's doings, hence the need for reports.

The only reason making the Senate and the Court write reports too is being brought up now is to try and dissuade some from supporting legislation that makes the President write reports. Not because there is an actual need for it: like I said, all activity of the Court and the Senate can be found in their respective region and thread. The information is already all there, in centralized spots.

But you know what, if making the Senate write reports too is what it takes for the President to write his reports, then as Speaker Pro Tempore I'll be happy to oblige. I'll make you the prettiest little list of stuff we talked about and voted on you could possibly imagine.

[Miklania]

Or, we should all take a step back and realize what is actually important to this region. Play bureaucracy or maintaining a stable place for role players and nation builders to have fun? We can and have done the latter without officers writing a list of things they do every month.

[Eutriston]

First of all, I'd like to apologize for not addressing this sooner. In was off on a holiday, and the Internet was the last thing I had time for. My lack of response to this was a true disservice, and I am sincerely apologetic. Moving on to the subject at hand, I am against any change to the current policies.

I will tell you why. For one, the entire thing that sparked this was not necessarily general dissatisfaction with the current rules, but rather a need to respond Miklania's blatant disregard to the current policies. A bartering of sorts, in a sense. We'll discuss new policies, but only if you work again. Changing things out of negotiation rather than principle is a dangerous thing to do.

On why I support the current policies, it is because I see little to no problem with them. One of the great taglines on why the executive branch is so superior to the rest of the government is because they are the only ones that do anything. Well, if your the ones doing things, you may as well report all your glorious deeds.

Furthermore, any argument they are not worth it is bull. I for one read the officer reports every month, but I sure do not see everything the executive branch does every month. Saying that people should just pay attention is like Obama saying people should just go to Syria if they want to know about the war against ISIS.

Also, these reports are not a burden in any way whatsoever. All of us right thousands of words every month on the RMB, can you not spare a few hundred for your more important obligations? It is not that hard to sit down for five minutes and right a brief telegram to PPU. What I see here is more of a situation like this; a student is not doing there homework, and instead of taking the fall, they are telling they're teacher they don't see the point in the homework and are therefore refusing to do it.

The current solution is just another offer in the dangerous trade we are making, and I will not be bargaining.

[Miklania]

First of all, I'd like to apologize for not addressing this sooner. In was off on a holiday, and the Internet was the last thing I had time for. My lack of response to this was a true disservice, and I am sincerely apologetic. Moving on to the subject at hand, I am against any change to the current policies.

I will tell you why. For one, the entire thing that sparked this was not necessarily general dissatisfaction with the current rules, but rather a need to respond Miklania's blatant disregard to the current policies. A bartering of sorts, in a sense. We'll discuss new policies, but only if you work again. Changing things out of negotiation rather than principle is a dangerous thing to do.

On why I support the current policies, it is because I see little to no problem with them. One of the great taglines on why the executive branch is so superior to the rest of the government is because they are the only ones that do anything. Well, if your the ones doing things, you may as well report all your glorious deeds.

Furthermore, any argument they are not worth it is bull. I for one read the officer reports every month, but I sure do not see everything the executive branch does every month. Saying that people should just pay attention is like Obama saying people should just go to Syria if they want to know about the war against ISIS.

Also, these reports are not a burden in any way whatsoever. All of us right thousands of words every month on the RMB, can you not spare a few hundred for your more important obligations? It is not that hard to sit down for five minutes and right a brief telegram to PPU. What I see here is more of a situation like this; a student is not doing there homework, and instead of taking the fall, they are telling they're teacher they don't see the point in the homework and are therefore refusing to do it.

The current solution is just another offer in the dangerous trade we are making, and I will not be bargaining.

Perhaps you see nothing wrong with these rules because you are not the one that these rules apply to. No one is arguing that we are the only useful ones. I am dissatisfied with the pointless and extravagant laws that the Senate passes to make themselves feel more important, and it seems that the only way to make people actually do anything about it is to loudly protest.

This region is not about Officers doing things or Senators making laws. It is about role play. Having all this extra bureaucracy is completely silly and utterly pointless. Especially since only a few people bother to actually read the reports in question.

[Eutriston]

When you ran for President you willingly subjected yourself to the duties it entails. We as officers have jobs to complete, we have jobs so the rest of the region doesn't have to have one. If you do not like the senate making laws, the court approving, the executives having to make reports, then leave your seat. It is our duty as officers to fill out our obligations to the people. Your argument at this point may as well be to dismantle the government entirely, you've come to a point where you see any and all procedures as red tape.

[Miklania]

When you ran for President you willingly subjected yourself to the duties it entails. We as officers have jobs to complete, we have jobs so the rest of the region doesn't have to have one. If you do not like the senate making laws, the court approving, the executives having to make reports, then leave your seat. It is our duty as officers to fill out our obligations to the people. Your argument at this point may as well be to dismantle the government entirely, you've come to a point where you see any and all procedures as red tape.

I will have you know that when I ran for office the officer reports were not law. I would also like you to reflect on the fact that a bunch of nerds on the internet playing a role playing game needs to have "red tape". Hopefully the absurdity will dawn you.

[Eutriston]

My argument was not necessarily specifically regarding officer reports, rather that you seem to be lobbying against the idea that holding office should be a job. And again, you are regarding almost anything at this point as red tape in order to reinforce your argument, when in fact they are common sense procedures. Right now, it may seem that we can slack back on procedures, but that is selfish. When new people take office, as they inevitably will, we need these procedures. We cannot contour government to the current administration and completely disregard our successors. We will only destroy the region after our leave if we make things easy because they work right now.