International Freedom Coalition (OOC, APPS TEMP CLOSED)

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Ardoki de-facto used a median-point with some flexibility, like me. In any event when you're outnumbered by more than twenty to one it doesn't make much difference.

If we're moving away from fighting Ardoki to fighting Ralkovia, I'm out. Much rather just avoid the inevitable realism concerns and OOC arguments associated with nations using NS stats and realism. :/

Well, we do outnumber the major slaver nations by about 4 to 1, and as a rule of thumb people RPing by harder standards can raise their populations by a third without fundamentally changing the nature of their nations. That would leave the IFC median nation size somewhere around 400 million (and an average of about 2 billion).

Still, Ralkovia, if we're to RP with everybody participating, if it's not too much trouble, would you perhaps be willing to put a cap at two thirds of NS population? Then the difference wouldn't be too absurd. (It would also make me more inclined to believe that Ralkovia could perhaps have a functioning economy more akin to what your RPs imply).

[New Chilokver]

It’s not really so much the size- I wouldn’t change my nation’s stats for anything anyway, given the amount of work I’ve spent structuring my military. But yeah, my main issue is that with larger sized nations, you come into the whole “anything’s possible with x amount of resources” issue. I won’t even get into the nuclear weapons…

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

But yeah, my main issue is that with larger sized nations, you come into the whole “anything’s possible with x amount of resources” issue.

That's completely untrue (although an unfortunately common belief). Any decent MT RPer knows that their things should work in theory if they don't exist, and that the reason(s) why they don't exist IRL should not matter in NS.

It's actually the same standard by which anybody here designs a normal tank with a 120 mm cannon - nobody has actually built the exact tank you design, pixel by pixel, but you know that it should work in theory and nobody's going to ask you to build a real version IRL, because everybody knows that a conventional tank works in theory, and you know it doesn't exist IRL because people can't be arsed to try every single possible permutation of a tank, which of course doesn't apply to NS because you want your tank how you design it rather than how someone else has designed them IRL.

The trouble starts when most people don't know what else can work in theory but isn't used in practice because, for example, it's not economical IRL. Or when you don't agree on whether anybody should invest money in it in NS either - for instance, I would have grave reservations about 99% of NS using Lyras' nuclear-engine bomber, because for all except about a dozen nations, it does not make any sense to invest in all the infrastructure required, unless your military spending is over about $10 trillion, focused on long-distance concerns, and the nation happens to have a plot of flat space where nuclear radiation is not a concern...

[New Chilokver]

But yeah, my main issue is that with larger sized nations, you come into the whole “anything’s possible with x amount of resources” issue.

That's completely untrue (although an unfortunately common belief). Any decent MT RPer knows that their things should work in theory if they don't exist, and that the reason(s) why they don't exist IRL should not matter in NS.

It's actually the same standard by which anybody here designs a normal tank with a 120 mm cannon - nobody has actually built the exact tank you design, pixel by pixel, but you know that it should work in theory and nobody's going to ask you to build a real version IRL, because everybody knows that a conventional tanks work in theory, and you know it doesn't exist IRL because people can't be arsed to try every single possible permutation of a tank, which of course doesn't apply to NS because you want your tank how you design it rather than how someone else has designed them IRL.

The trouble starts when most people don't know what else can work in theory but isn't used in practice because, for example, it's not economical IRL.

I meant in regards to economics, actually, not just general wank. You know, when people go "Railguns are theoretically possible and have been proven to work IRL. Given my nation of 4 billion people running an economy of 220 trillion GDP, I'm sure I'd have poured enough funding in to make it a feasible technology" and then whip a fleet of nuclear railgun battleships out.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

That's completely untrue (although an unfortunately common belief). Any decent MT RPer knows that their things should work in theory if they don't exist, and that the reason(s) why they don't exist IRL should not matter in NS.

It's actually the same standard by which anybody here designs a normal tank with a 120 mm cannon - nobody has actually built the exact tank you design, pixel by pixel, but you know that it should work in theory and nobody's going to ask you to build a real version IRL, because everybody knows that a conventional tanks work in theory, and you know it doesn't exist IRL because people can't be arsed to try every single possible permutation of a tank, which of course doesn't apply to NS because you want your tank how you design it rather than how someone else has designed them IRL.

The trouble starts when most people don't know what else can work in theory but isn't used in practice because, for example, it's not economical IRL.

I meant in regards to economics, actually, not just general wank. You know, when people go "Railguns are theoretically possible and have been proven to work IRL. Given my nation of 4 billion people running an economy of 220 trillion GDP, I'm sure I'd have poured enough funding in to make it a feasible technology" and then whip a fleet of nuclear railgun battleships out.

That's fair enough. When it requires additional technological research, I also operate on the assumption that they're changing their effective date, because I regard MT to refer to the technology of today, not simply today.

[Queendom of Carthage]

International Freedom Coalition IFC Admissions Department, International Commonwealth Agency, Alexandria, Ausitoria, Aestorian Commonwealth IFC Admissions Application National Information Formal Nation Name: The Queendom of Carthage Shortened Nation Name: Carthage Demonym: Carthaginian Capital city: New Carthage National Population (RP): 45,000,000 Form of Government: Absolute Monarchy Is your Government by the people? No How do you describe the political atmosphere of your state? Center-Left Head of State: Queen Elissa Head of Government: Queen Elissa Economic System: Capitalism Currency: Shekel Exchange Rate to NSD: 1.11 Major Exports: Salt, Oil, Marble Major Imports: Iron, Foods Language: Punic, Arabic Brief History of your nation: After a civil war in 1963 against Tunisia which was won in 1965, the Carthaginian monarchy was restored and the country turned to isolationism. Under the first King the country was widely considered a psychotic dictatorship. In 2001 Queen Elissa took power at the age of 17 and brought the technology of the modern world. She also vastly increased the personal and economic freedom of her subjects, making her loved. In 2016 she reopened borders for minimal tourism. The culture of Carthage resembles that of ancient Carthage, but utlizing modern technology. Map: IIwiki page link or factbook: Factbook (WIP) Political and Civil Rights and Freedoms Does your nation have Freedom of thought: Yes Freedom of belief (religion): Yes Freedom of expression: Yes Freedom of the media: No Freedom of peaceful assembly: Yes Freedom of association: Yes Freedom of movement: Yes Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure: No Freedom from arbitrary detention or imprisonment: No Freedom from slavery: Yes Right to life, liberty and security of the individual: Yes Right to vote (The ability to vote upon reaching the age of majority): No Right to a fair trial, legal council, and a guarantee of habeas corpus: No Right to not be subject to cruel or unusual punishment: Yes Rights of equality (Equality regardless of racial, gender, sexual orientation, religion, age or mental or physical disability): Yes Right to own property: Yes Right to free enterprise (and to what extent?): All native business that benefits the people and doesn't rival government power is legal Right to innocent navigation: Yes Foreign Relations and Military Statistics What other military alliances are you a part of? None What other non-military organizations are you a part of? None Foreign Policy: Peaceful but firm Number of active military personnel (RP): 200,000 Number of reserve military personnel (RP): 800,000 Nuclear Arsenal (if any): 30 Nuclear Warheads and growing for assurance that no nuclear powers attack them Name of Military: Carthaginian Armed Forces Branches of Military: Army: 600,000 personnel Navy: 275,000 personnel Airforce: 125,000 personnel RP example: "My lady" said a messenger before the Queen, "They say we have launched an attack." "Hmm? Who, those Skellig warmongering folk?" "Yes my lady, let me show you the video." "I'm broadcasting one myself then... " A few minutes later the Queen appeared outside the palace again, speaking both to the assembled crowd and to the televisions of millions. "Greetings, citizens of the world. I can assure all of you that Carthage has no need or want for war. Frankly we find war to be horrible. That is why for the history of modern Carthage our only war was 51 years ago, our war of independence. The warmongering nation of Skellig has made a false flag operation on its own people because we refused to disarm our nuclear arsenal. They want a war that we don't. We refused to disarm not for war, but to ensure that we are not drawn into a war where citizens of the world could die. Therefore, the warmongering government of Skellig has chosen to launch this false flag operation so they may make an unprovoked declaration of war against us. But this is ridiculous. We have been isolationist for 51 years in an effort to avoid wars. Only recently have we surfaced for the sake of peacekeeping, for the sake of upholding the personal and economic freedoms of individuals across the globe. If we wanted to attack someone, we would have used the Nuclear Weapons, not attacked cargo ships. To their corrupt government cargo ships and lives are dispensable, which is why they launched an attack on ships and not a nuclear strike on themselves. Even now we look for peace as they mobilize against us." The video ended with the speech. Delegate to the IFC Council Information Name: Baalhanno (Title and full name included there) Age: 45 Gender: Male Reason for your nation desiring to join the IFC: Carthage wishes to halt the communists and dictatorships that are plaguing the earth with their low standards of living and needless violence. Do you hereby agree to abide by the terms and conditions set forth under the Charter in IFC legislation?: Signature: ___Baalhanno___ Date:_____7/29/2016_____ **IFCAPP**

[Mizrad]

(Image) International Freedom Coalition IFC Admissions Department, International Commonwealth Agency, Alexandria, Ausitoria, Aestorian Commonwealth IFC Admissions Application National Information Formal Nation Name: The Queendom of Carthage Shortened Nation Name: Carthage Demonym: Carthaginian Capital city: New Carthage National Population (RP): 45,000,000 Form of Government: Absolute Monarchy Is your Government by the people? No How do you describe the political atmosphere of your state? Center-Left Head of State: Queen Elissa Head of Government: Queen Elissa Economic System: Capitalism Currency: Shekel Exchange Rate to NSD: 1.11 Major Exports: Salt, Oil, Marble Major Imports: Iron, Foods Language: Punic, Arabic Brief History of your nation: After a civil war in 1963 against Tunisia which was won in 1965, the Carthaginian monarchy was restored and the country turned to isolationism. Under the first King the country was widely considered a psychotic dictatorship. In 2001 Queen Elissa took power at the age of 17 and brought the technology of the modern world. She also vastly increased the personal and economic freedom of her subjects, making her loved. In 2016 she reopened borders for minimal tourism. The culture of Carthage resembles that of ancient Carthage, but utlizing modern technology. Map: (Image) IIwiki page link or factbook: Factbook (WIP) Political and Civil Rights and Freedoms Does your nation have Freedom of thought: Yes Freedom of belief (religion): Yes Freedom of expression: Yes Freedom of the media: No Freedom of peaceful assembly: Yes Freedom of association: Yes Freedom of movement: Yes Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure: No Freedom from arbitrary detention or imprisonment: No Freedom from slavery: Yes Right to life, liberty and security of the individual: Yes Right to vote (The ability to vote upon reaching the age of majority): No Right to a fair trial, legal council, and a guarantee of habeas corpus: No Right to not be subject to cruel or unusual punishment: Yes Rights of equality (Equality regardless of racial, gender, sexual orientation, religion, age or mental or physical disability): Yes Right to own property: Yes Right to free enterprise (and to what extent?): All native business that benefits the people and doesn't rival government power is legal Right to innocent navigation: Yes Foreign Relations and Military Statistics What other military alliances are you a part of? None What other non-military organizations are you a part of? None Foreign Policy: Peaceful but firm Number of active military personnel (RP): 200,000 Number of reserve military personnel (RP): 800,000 Nuclear Arsenal (if any): 30 Nuclear Warheads and growing for assurance that no nuclear powers attack them Name of Military: Carthaginian Armed Forces Branches of Military: Army: 600,000 personnel Navy: 275,000 personnel Airforce: 125,000 personnel RP example: "My lady" said a messenger before the Queen, "They say we have launched an attack." "Hmm? Who, those Skellig warmongering folk?" "Yes my lady, let me show you the video." "I'm broadcasting one myself then... " A few minutes later the Queen appeared outside the palace again, speaking both to the assembled crowd and to the televisions of millions. "Greetings, citizens of the world. I can assure all of you that Carthage has no need or want for war. Frankly we find war to be horrible. That is why for the history of modern Carthage our only war was 51 years ago, our war of independence. The warmongering nation of Skellig has made a false flag operation on its own people because we refused to disarm our nuclear arsenal. They want a war that we don't. We refused to disarm not for war, but to ensure that we are not drawn into a war where citizens of the world could die. Therefore, the warmongering government of Skellig has chosen to launch this false flag operation so they may make an unprovoked declaration of war against us. But this is ridiculous. We have been isolationist for 51 years in an effort to avoid wars. Only recently have we surfaced for the sake of peacekeeping, for the sake of upholding the personal and economic freedoms of individuals across the globe. If we wanted to attack someone, we would have used the Nuclear Weapons, not attacked cargo ships. To their corrupt government cargo ships and lives are dispensable, which is why they launched an attack on ships and not a nuclear strike on themselves. Even now we look for peace as they mobilize against us." The video ended with the speech. Delegate to the IFC Council Information Name: Baalhanno (Title and full name included there) Age: 45 Gender: Male Reason for your nation desiring to join the IFC: Carthage wishes to halt the communists and dictatorships that are plaguing the earth with their low standards of living and needless violence. Do you hereby agree to abide by the terms and conditions set forth under the Charter in IFC legislation?: Signature: ___Baalhanno___ Date:_____7/29/2016_____ **IFCAPP**

You know this is the freedom coalition right? It's a nice looking app and all but your country doesn't look very free.

[Guadalupador]

Carthage probably tried it because Ardoki got in so easily.

[Pillowlandia]

Reason #182y865-091109y1348913467s11089241824712A10814 that the Ardoki incident was a poor idea all around. Though if we instituted a probationary type of membership for nations which are legitimately transitioning to true freedom... then maybe. Though still wouldn't be the greatest of ideas.

[Mizrad]

It’s not really so much the size- I wouldn’t change my nation’s stats for anything anyway, given the amount of work I’ve spent structuring my military. But yeah, my main issue is that with larger sized nations, you come into the whole “anything’s possible with x amount of resources” issue. I won’t even get into the nuclear weapons…

I see your concerns with this but from what I've been reading (And trust me, I've spent probably ten fucking hours catching up on RP's I've missed, I got this shit down) it seems like everybody here from the IFC to Ralkovia and his allies won't be doing anything remarkably dumb or unrealistic. If I were you I would be more concerned with OOC arguments that tend to plague us rather than IC realism.

[Valaran]

That's completely untrue (although an unfortunately common belief). Any decent MT RPer knows that their things should work in theory if they don't exist, and that the reason(s) why they don't exist IRL should not matter in NS.

[...]

The trouble starts when most people don't know what else can work in theory but isn't used in practice because, for example, it's not economical IRL. Or when you don't agree on whether anybody should invest money in it in NS either - for instance, I would have grave reservations about 99% of NS using Lyras' nuclear-engine bomber, because for all except about a dozen nations, it does not make any sense to invest in all the infrastructure required, unless your military spending is over about $10 trillion, focused on long-distance concerns, and the nation happens to have a plot of flat space where nuclear radiation is not a concern...

For the record Lib, I have a profound and effectively intractable disagreement with your view on this. This isn't meant to start an argument (which is why I try not to bring it up), but since you did flatly state this view to be correct (or rather, for another view to be incorrect), I felt a need to register my opposing viewpoint.

[Queendom of Carthage]

(Image) International Freedom Coalition IFC Admissions Department, International Commonwealth Agency, Alexandria, Ausitoria, Aestorian Commonwealth IFC Admissions Application National Information Formal Nation Name: The Queendom of Carthage Shortened Nation Name: Carthage Demonym: Carthaginian Capital city: New Carthage National Population (RP): 45,000,000 Form of Government: Absolute Monarchy Is your Government by the people? No How do you describe the political atmosphere of your state? Center-Left Head of State: Queen Elissa Head of Government: Queen Elissa Economic System: Capitalism Currency: Shekel Exchange Rate to NSD: 1.11 Major Exports: Salt, Oil, Marble Major Imports: Iron, Foods Language: Punic, Arabic Brief History of your nation: After a civil war in 1963 against Tunisia which was won in 1965, the Carthaginian monarchy was restored and the country turned to isolationism. Under the first King the country was widely considered a psychotic dictatorship. In 2001 Queen Elissa took power at the age of 17 and brought the technology of the modern world. She also vastly increased the personal and economic freedom of her subjects, making her loved. In 2016 she reopened borders for minimal tourism. The culture of Carthage resembles that of ancient Carthage, but utlizing modern technology. Map: (Image) IIwiki page link or factbook: Factbook (WIP) Political and Civil Rights and Freedoms Does your nation have Freedom of thought: Yes Freedom of belief (religion): Yes Freedom of expression: Yes Freedom of the media: No Freedom of peaceful assembly: Yes Freedom of association: Yes Freedom of movement: Yes Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure: No Freedom from arbitrary detention or imprisonment: No Freedom from slavery: Yes Right to life, liberty and security of the individual: Yes Right to vote (The ability to vote upon reaching the age of majority): No Right to a fair trial, legal council, and a guarantee of habeas corpus: No Right to not be subject to cruel or unusual punishment: Yes Rights of equality (Equality regardless of racial, gender, sexual orientation, religion, age or mental or physical disability): Yes Right to own property: Yes Right to free enterprise (and to what extent?): All native business that benefits the people and doesn't rival government power is legal Right to innocent navigation: Yes Foreign Relations and Military Statistics What other military alliances are you a part of? None What other non-military organizations are you a part of? None Foreign Policy: Peaceful but firm Number of active military personnel (RP): 200,000 Number of reserve military personnel (RP): 800,000 Nuclear Arsenal (if any): 30 Nuclear Warheads and growing for assurance that no nuclear powers attack them Name of Military: Carthaginian Armed Forces Branches of Military: Army: 600,000 personnel Navy: 275,000 personnel Airforce: 125,000 personnel RP example: Delegate to the IFC Council Information Name: Baalhanno (Title and full name included there) Age: 45 Gender: Male Reason for your nation desiring to join the IFC: Carthage wishes to halt the communists and dictatorships that are plaguing the earth with their low standards of living and needless violence. Do you hereby agree to abide by the terms and conditions set forth under the Charter in IFC legislation?: Signature: ___Baalhanno___ Date:_____7/29/2016_____ **IFCAPP**

You know this is the freedom coalition right? It's a nice looking app and all but your country doesn't look very free.

Well, goodbye another organization that doesn't accept people specifically due to government type.

[Guadalupador]

It wasn't your government type that we didn't like, it was your number of guaranteed civil liberties.

[Queendom of Carthage]

It wasn't your government type that we didn't like, it was your number of guaranteed civil liberties.

If the people are unhappy they can simply rise up and install a new government.

[Pillowlandia]

Right to vote (The ability to vote upon reaching the age of majority): No
Right to a fair trial, legal council, and a guarantee of habeas corpus: No

---

Well, goodbye another organization that doesn't accept people specifically due to government type.

In most circles the right to vote and right to a fair trial (along with right to legal council and habeas corpus) are rather fundamental freedoms. Also, even if one had an absolute monarchy and those rights then there is a good chance they would be admitted. (of course it's more than just a checklist of rights) Though naturally, most here would prefer a more democratic government.

[Queendom of Carthage]

Right to vote (The ability to vote upon reaching the age of majority): No
Right to a fair trial, legal council, and a guarantee of habeas corpus: No

---

Well, goodbye another organization that doesn't accept people specifically due to government type.

In most circles the right to vote and right to a fair trial (along with right to legal council and habeas corpus) are rather fundamental freedoms. Also, even if one had an absolute monarchy and those rights then there is a good chance they would be admitted. (of course it's more than just a checklist of rights) Though naturally, most here would prefer a more democratic government.

It's a bit difficult to have the right to vote and and absolute monarchy.

[Mizrad]

In most circles the right to vote and right to a fair trial (along with right to legal council and habeas corpus) are rather fundamental freedoms. Also, even if one had an absolute monarchy and those rights then there is a good chance they would be admitted. (of course it's more than just a checklist of rights) Though naturally, most here would prefer a more democratic government.

It's a bit difficult to have the right to vote and and absolute monarchy.

Yeah so don't apply to an organization that necesitates the right to vote. I can link you to organizations that are made specifically for monarch nations like yourself if you would like.

[Queendom of Carthage]

It's a bit difficult to have the right to vote and and absolute monarchy.

Yeah so don't apply to an organization that necesitates the right to vote. I can link you to organizations that are made specifically for monarch nations like yourself if you would like.

Most monarchies don't provide zero freedom, which is why I came here.

[Roskian Federation]

In most circles the right to vote and right to a fair trial (along with right to legal council and habeas corpus) are rather fundamental freedoms. Also, even if one had an absolute monarchy and those rights then there is a good chance they would be admitted. (of course it's more than just a checklist of rights) Though naturally, most here would prefer a more democratic government.

It's a bit difficult to have the right to vote and and absolute monarchy.

Not necessarily. Just like in America, there could be elections on specific issues to specific areas, or the people could even elect a cabinent group

[Queendom of Carthage]

It's a bit difficult to have the right to vote and and absolute monarchy.

Not necessarily. Just like in America, there could be elections on specific issues to specific areas, or the people could even elect a cabinent group

That is more a Constitutional Monarchy than an Absolute Monarchy.

[Roskian Federation]

Yeah so don't apply to an organization that necesitates the right to vote. I can link you to organizations that are made specifically for monarch nations like yourself if you would like.

Most monarchies don't provide zero freedom, which is why I came here.

Freedom of the media: No
Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure: No
Freedom from arbitrary detention or imprisonment: No
Right to a fair trial, legal council, and a guarantee of habeas corpus: No

I'm personally more concerned about these than the lack of voting rights (because being politically free doesnt necessarily mean you are, see: United States of America)

[Roskian Federation]

Not necessarily. Just like in America, there could be elections on specific issues to specific areas, or the people could even elect a cabinent group

That is more a Constitutional Monarchy than an Absolute Monarchy.

That's more a absolute monarchy that doesnt bother the king/queen so often.

You need a constitution to have a constitutional monarchy

[Queendom of Carthage]

That is more a Constitutional Monarchy than an Absolute Monarchy.

That's more a absolute monarchy that doesnt bother the king/queen so often.

You need a constitution to have a constitutional monarchy

So having elections is absolutism? I think not. That is more often in constitutional monarchy, which I am not.

[Roskian Federation]

That's more a absolute monarchy that doesnt bother the king/queen so often.

You need a constitution to have a constitutional monarchy

So having elections is absolutism? I think not. That is more often in constitutional monarchy, which I am not.

voting on issues and then your king/queen getting the final say is still absoluteism

[Queendom of Carthage]

So having elections is absolutism? I think not. That is more often in constitutional monarchy, which I am not.

voting on issues and then your king/queen getting the final say is still absoluteism

So in other words the votes don't matter?