International Freedom Coalition (OOC, APPS TEMP CLOSED)

[Aigeantir]

Are we thinking of the same Western Hemisphere?

Probably not, since there is no single categorical definition of western/eastern hemispheres, unlike the north-south equator. It is therefore entirely possible you are thinking of something very slightly different from myself. However, the Prime Meridian passes directly through France at Villers-sur-Mer, and plenty of definitions of the western hemisphere include France and Western Europe in general. Regardless, I don't think the general point I was making is beyond your comprehension - such little details are hardly enough to confuse someone such as yourself, I'm sure!

But since it has distressed you, I shall simply rephrase it thusly: "France have one of the best military records in the Western hemisphere world"

Obviously you have never heard of the French Rules of Warfare:

First Rule of French Warfare: France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman.(Hundred Years War, Napoleonic War)
Second Rule of French Warfare: France only wins when an ally does most of the fighting. (World War I and II)
Third Rule of French Warfare: When in doubt, send an ally. (Haiti, 1791-1804 with sacrifice of 4000 Poles to yellow fever)

So what you said before (and conveniently left out) is still correct because this wasn't the French fighting, this was everyone else:

it is often levied by Brits (who were forced off the continent in the early stages of the war) or by the Americans (who refused to even fight the Nazis until they were forced) or by nations who were utterly conquered and subjugated by the Nazis

As someone who is part French, I'm doing this out of innocent humour

[Brytene]

Obviously you have never heard of the French Rules of Warfare:

First Rule of French Warfare: France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman.(Hundred Years War, Napoleonic War)
Second Rule of French Warfare: France only wins when an ally does most of the fighting. (World War I and II)
Third Rule of French Warfare: When in doubt, send an ally. (Haiti, 1791-1804 with sacrifice of 4000 Poles to yellow fever)

So what you said before (and conveniently left out) is still correct because this wasn't the French fighting, this was everyone else:

First rule: Sorry but that's not really much proof. Half of Rome's emperors were born in provinces instead of Rome, and Hitler was born on the Austrian side of his home town, but they still get chalked up to Rome and Germany respectively
Second rule: Everyone in WWI and WWII would have lost without allies...in fact, US propaganda for entering WWII was mostly centered around "if Hitler wins, then within 10 years WWIII will be the whole world VS the US and we'll be screwed)
Third rule: Most powerful nations in the world have used auxiliaries, from Rome to the Mongols to the British Empire. Hell, even the American Revolution had its share of native allies and a shittonne of French support (more French than Americans at Yorktown, for example).
It's only in the recent few decades that armies have been made purely of professional, native volunteers

As someone who is part French, I'm doing this out of innocent humour

Part French?

EDIT - i was creeping your iiwiki and your choice of national anthem is splendid ಠ_ಠ

I mean, they started world war 2, and arguably escalated ww1. I'm part german, and ain't bigoted. I'm just saying I've seen them start quite a few.
Though arguably WW1 was Austria's and Serbia's fault, but that's a whole different topic.

No one nation can be blamed for WWI, and to be honest though Hitler was terrible, the allies of WWI and the people who crashed the stock market caused hideous horrors in Germany. If you really are part German, ask your dad or grandma or whoever about the interwar years, and then tell me if you think that you, as an illiterate peasant who can't find work and for whom bread costs a million marks, would really be in a position to see through Hitler's lies?

People like Hitler traded on the idea of racial 'tendencies', so ironically saying the Germans have 'violent natures' or whatever, well...

[Elesar]

Hey guys, I'm back and ready to get back in action.

[Brytene]

No no, Germans aren't violent. They just always end up getting blamed for starting wars based on technicalities.
And yes, no one can really be blamed for WW1, but I was just stating my opinions on where it went all wrong.

K good, because yeah frankly saying "All X are Y" is basically what started WWI and WWII, and is rather silly. I personally think most Americans are quite nice - there are certainly some who fit the stereotype, and banter and craic is one thing, but it's not really on to genuinely believe that Germans are all Nazis or the French are all cowards

[Borginia and Cohdopia]

I'm still waiting for my approval.

[United States of Conner]

I'm still waiting for my approval.

We tend not to rubber stamp things here. Our Prime Minister has a lot of RL stuff at the moment, but he should be around soon.

[Borginia and Cohdopia]

I'm still waiting for my approval.

We tend not to rubber stamp things here. Our Prime Minister has a lot of RL stuff at the moment, but he should be around soon.

Fine.

But I'm surprised no one even asked about the discrepancies.

[United States of Conner]

We tend not to rubber stamp things here. Our Prime Minister has a lot of RL stuff at the moment, but he should be around soon.

Fine.

But I'm surprised no one even asked about the discrepancies.

That would be the PM's job. Though, if you want, do please explain the 'some what's' in the freedom section?

[Borginia and Cohdopia]

Fine.

But I'm surprised no one even asked about the discrepancies.

That would be the PM's job. Though, if you want, do please explain the 'some what's' in the freedom section?

Freedom of belief is controlled by state jurisdiction, as to where it begins and where it ends.
Freedom of movement statement establishes that treatment of foreigners and foreigners by the civilians are up to the state's government. Borginian en Cohdopia cannot interfere.
Right to a fair trial, legal council, and a guarantee of habeas corpus: Habeas Corpus is not guaranteed by the government, and only by the state.

[Brytene]

Also random meme required:

(Image)

goddamn Zubats just place a dark cave at every border entry to your nation, it'll stop invasions dead

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Give the PM a chance... or don't. I have lost count of the number of times I have recommended getting more people involved in monitoring and approving applicants and reviewing our laws and institutions. I even laid the groundwork for it with my committees resolution...

By the way, when are the next PM elections going to be?

Obviously you have never heard of the French Rules of Warfare:

First Rule of French Warfare: France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman.(Hundred Years War, Napoleonic War)
Second Rule of French Warfare: France only wins when an ally does most of the fighting. (World War I and II)
Third Rule of French Warfare: When in doubt, send an ally. (Haiti, 1791-1804 with sacrifice of 4000 Poles to yellow fever)

As someone who is part French, I'm doing this out of innocent humour

You forgot rule four: In the end, Britain wins anyway due to superior maritime trade.

[New Aeyariss]

Give the PM a chance... or don't. I have lost count of the number of times I have recommended getting more people involved in monitoring and approving applicants and reviewing our laws and institutions. I even laid the groundwork for it with my committees resolution...

By the way, when are the next PM elections going to be?

Obviously you have never heard of the French Rules of Warfare:

First Rule of French Warfare: France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman.(Hundred Years War, Napoleonic War)
Second Rule of French Warfare: France only wins when an ally does most of the fighting. (World War I and II)
Third Rule of French Warfare: When in doubt, send an ally. (Haiti, 1791-1804 with sacrifice of 4000 Poles to yellow fever)

As someone who is part French, I'm doing this out of innocent humour

You forgot rule four: In the end, British wins anyway due to superior maritime trade.

Fourth Rule of French Warfare: As soon as first explosion is heard around Paris, surrender it without fighting.

[Brytene]

Fourth Rule of French Warfare: As soon as first explosion is heard around Paris, surrender it without fighting.

First Rule of Polish Warfare: We're so good that if it takes France six weeks to be beaten by the Germans, then we can be beaten by them in just four!

[New Aeyariss]

Fourth Rule of French Warfare: As soon as first explosion is heard around Paris, surrender it without fighting.

First Rule of Polish Warfare: We're so good that if it takes France six weeks to be beaten by the Germans, then we can be beaten by them in just four!

Mind I ask why are you making this about ethnicity?

My joke was not intended to offend anyone, because "surrendering Paris to prevent it from being destroyed" is sort of a meme in Poland, and it isn't offensive. Sorry if this sounded like that.

Second, your statement is historically untrue. First, Polish government never signed any act of surrender (it fled into Romania, then to the west), where it continued to reside in London up to 1989. Said government still had command over non - Soviet resistance units in Poland (AK, BCh etc.) which never laid down arms and continued resistance across Europe.

Third, Polish units continued fight against Nazis even after fall of Poland itself. Stanisław Maczek was de facto guy who won battle of Falasie thanks to actions of his Polish 1st Armoured Division aka "Division of Death". DeGaulle once visited position of Maczek's men, and now I will quote "the field in front of Polish positions was filled with bodies of dead Germans and wrecks of German tanks".

We were actually 4th state in terms of number of soldiers engaged in WWII. Only cowardly Western Politicians denied us right to partake in victory parade "not to offend Stalin".

Fourth, France was invaded only from single side, and had considerable British military contingent ready to back it up. On the other side, on 17th September Soviet Forces Poland invaded us from the East. We can not actually think how long said campaign would take if not Soviet backstab.

[Brytene]

Mind I ask why are you making this about ethnicity?

My joke was not intended to offend anyone, because "surrendering Paris to prevent it from being destroyed" is sort of a meme in Poland, and it isn't offensive. Sorry if this sounded like that.

Second, your statement is historically untrue. First, Polish government never signed any act of surrender (it fled into Romania, then to the west), where it continued to reside in London up to 1989. Said government still had command over non - Soviet resistance units in Poland (AK, BCh etc.) which never laid down arms and continued resistance across Europe.

Third, Polish units continued fight against Nazis even after fall of Poland itself. Stanisław Maczek was de facto guy who won battle of Falasie thanks to actions of his Polish 1st Armoured Division aka "Division of Death". DeGaulle once visited position of Maczek's men, and now I will quote "the field in front of Polish positions was filled with bodies of dead Germans and wrecks of German tanks".

We were actually 4th state in terms of number of soldiers engaged in WWII. Only cowardly Western Politicians denied us right to partake in victory parade "not to offend Stalin".

Fourth, France was invaded only from single side, and had considerable British military contingent ready to back it up. On the other side, on 17th September Soviet Forces Poland invaded us from the East. We can not actually think how long said campaign would take if not Soviet backstab.

Whoa whoa, I'm not making it about ethnicity, I thought we were just making jokes which no-one took seriously? Surely you didn't mean your joke about the French, just like I didn't mean mine about the Poles!

I didn't say Poland surrendered anyway, I said they were 'beaten' which is true. And, just like you say Poles kept fighting after Poland fell, so too the Free French Resistance fought just as bravely even after the Fall of France - trust me, Britain hosted both Polish fighters (many RAF pilots were Poles for example) and French (many of our special operatives and resistance liasons were French). Both should be respected and honoured...but if we're making jokes about the French, why not about the Poles too?

[New Aeyariss]

Whoa whoa, I'm not making it about ethnicity, I thought we were just making jokes which no-one took seriously? Surely you didn't mean your joke about the French, just like I didn't mean mine about the Poles!

I didn't say Poland surrendered anyway, I said they were 'beaten' which is true. And, just like you say Poles kept fighting after Poland fell, so too the Free French Resistance fought just as bravely even after the Fall of France - trust me, Britain hosted both Polish fighters (many RAF pilots were Poles for example) and French (many of our special operatives and resistance liasons were French). Both should be respected and honoured...but if we're making jokes about the French, why not about the Poles too?

It isn't about French Army, it is about fact. I do respect Committee of Free Frenchmen. I do respect every French soldier that fought in WWII. It wasn't about French Army.

Polish forces held Warsaw for 20 days. Over the course of war Warsaw was totally ruined. After Warsaw Uprising Hitler ordered that "not even stone on stone has to remain at Warsaw". What westerners thought to be one of most beautiful cities of Europe before war cased to exist.

On the contrary, French withdrew from their capital without fighting. They basically left it to the Germans.

That is what I was laughing from.

[West Aurelia]

Britain hosted both Polish fighters (many RAF pilots were Poles for example)

Did the RAF allow foreigners to join?

[Brytene]

Britain hosted both Polish fighters (many RAF pilots were Poles for example)

Did the RAF allow foreigners to join?

Yup, mostly Imperials but a few occupied countries too, including both Poland and France, though many French pilots went to join Free French groups

[New Aeyariss]

Did the RAF allow foreigners to join?

Yup, mostly Imperials but a few occupied countries too, including both Poland and France, though many French pilots went to join Free French groups

Division 303. Just take a look at statistics.

Taken from certain movie about this formation. While event is fictional, it illustrates Polish character ideally...

[Brytene]

Division 303. Just take a look at statistics.

Taken from certain movie about this formation. While event is fictional, it illustrates Polish character ideally...

"Its success in combat can be mainly attributed to the years of extensive and rigorous pre-war training many of the long-serving Polish veterans had received in their homeland, far more than many of their younger and inexperienced RAF comrades then being thrown into the battle"

All nations have brave individuals and cowardly individuals 'national character' has little to do with it

[New Aeyariss]

Division 303. Just take a look at statistics.

Taken from certain movie about this formation. While event is fictional, it illustrates Polish character ideally...

"Its success in combat can be mainly attributed to the years of extensive and rigorous pre-war training many of the long-serving Polish veterans had received in their homeland, far more than many of their younger and inexperienced RAF comrades then being thrown into the battle"

All nations have brave individuals and cowardly individuals 'national character' has little to do with it

National Character part was about the "repeat please" video, not about the division itself.

[Brytene]

On the contrary, French withdrew from their capital without fighting. They basically left it to the Germans.

That is what I was laughing from.

Actually, the French fought at the Maignot line and were outflanked. Only 10 out of the 58 Maignot fortresses were captured by the Germans. On the approaches to Paris, the Germans found more French armies, where they described fighting the French as '"hard and costly in lives, the enemy putting up severe resistance, particularly in the woods and tree lines continuing the fight when our troops had pushed passed the point of resistance". Pretty cowardly French, eh?

The French chose to fight outside their capital, and lost. They did not withdraw from Paris - they advanced to meet the enemy and were defeated. When their remaining forces had been dispersed or destroyed, the Parisian authorities declared Paris an 'open city' - this was a declaration that the civilians who chose to stay in Paris would not take up arms against the Germans, which in turn prevented huge civilian loss of life and prevented the Germans from destroying it brick by brick, which is why beautiful Paris still stands today!

National Character part was about the "repeat please" video, not about the division itself.

Still no real thing as 'national character', certainly not one that guarantees the behaviour of any given individual from that nation

[Inyourfaceistan]

DIE ROYALS DIE!!!
viewtopic.php?ns=1&f=5&t=355401&p=26162919#p26162919

If anyone is interested...

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

The monarch "retains status as head of the executive branch" - do you mean ceremonially, i.e. limited to acting on the advice of an elected Prime Minister?

[Brytene]

DIE ROYALS DIE!!!
viewtopic.php?ns=1&f=5&t=355401&p=26162919#p26162919

If anyone is interested...

mfw

a leading general rebels against the monarchy because he's afraid of communism? I suppose that, to be fair, having him rebel solely because he disapproved of the monarchy would be dangerously close to Marxism...

plus it wouldn't be a SACTO RP without some pinko-bashing, am I right?

Not that I think I'd be welcome anyway, but I think I'll pass