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International Freedom Coalition (OOC, APPS TEMP CLOSED)

Where nations come together and discuss matters of varying degrees of importance. [In character]

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New Chilokver
Minister
 
Posts: 2091
Founded: Oct 05, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby New Chilokver » Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:51 am

New Aeyariss wrote:
Inyourfaceistan wrote:Or if you want to know REAL methods of enhanced interrogation, ask Cusc, our resident Pole...



Oh yeah, I learned a lot from what commies were doing to Polish resistance...

Some of them I will not share on NS...

You guys...

No, we're fairly tame here- no car batteries attached to genitals or blood. Mostly sleep deprivation, solitary confinement, exposure that sort of thing. And a whole heap of chemicals. Before we became a democracy, we used to jab IV tubes in people's arms, give them a catheter and scuba mask and seal them in 2x1x1 metre glass tanks of 10 degrees water for a week on end. The IV tube was used to deliver psychedelic drugs.
United States of Conner wrote:
Libraria and Ausitoria wrote:No we don't. Ausitoria would undoubtedly leak the information when their intelligence service found out.

That really seems like a breach of confidentiality, does it not? "Civilized" nations tend not to do that. Don't do that.

Of course, USC also conducts enhanced interrogation. It's more with drugs, especially those that soften the area of the brain that tells truth from lies, but it happens. It's nasty, but necessary. No water boarding though.

Ah well. I'll be waiting with some "neither confirm nor deny" sort of statement.

And Connor, we don't do waterboarding. Too crude by far. Instead, we use muscle relaxants to induce suffocation and cardiac arrest, inject them with barbiturates to loosen them up for interrogation then revive them. Quite effective, especially since there's not much long term damage and we can keep going as long as we like. ("Truth serums" don't actually make people tell the truth by the way, more's the pity.)

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[HOI I - Peacetime conditions]
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Lingria wrote:Just realized I'm better at roleplaying then talking to another human being.
Fck.
WARNING: This nation represents my RL views.

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Libraria and Ausitoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7099
Founded: May 30, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Libraria and Ausitoria » Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:03 am

I'll just repeat this...

Torture doesn't work.
The Aestorian Commonwealth - Pax Prosperitas - Gloria in Maere - (Factbook)

Disclaimer: Notwithstanding any mention of their nations, Ausitoria and its canon does not exist nor impact the canon of many IFC & SACTO & closed-region nations; and it is harassment to presume it does. However in accordance with my open-door policy the converse does not apply: they still impact Ausitoria's canon.
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Ardoki
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14496
Founded: Sep 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ardoki » Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:06 am

Libraria and Ausitoria wrote:I'll just repeat this...

Torture doesn't work.

That is 100% correct.

I just don't understand how people can believe torture works as a way of getting information? Surely someone being tortured would say whatever they think the interrogators would want to hear in order to get the torture to stop.

Torture could be used as a punishment. However I don't see the point - A waste of time and energy really. And pretty savage and uncivilised.
Last edited by Ardoki on Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Greater Ardokian Empire | It is Ardoki's destiny to rule the whole world!
Unitary Parliamentary Constitutional Republic

Head of State: Grand Emperor Alistair Killian Moriarty
Head of Government: Grand Imperial Chancellor Kennedy Rowan Coleman
Legislature: Imperial Senate
Ruling Party: Imperial Progressive Party
Technology Level: MT (Primary) | PMT, FanT (Secondary)
Politics: Social Democrat
Religion: None
Personality Type: ENTP 3w4

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West Aurelia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5793
Founded: Sep 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby West Aurelia » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:21 am

Oh what have I started...

Image

Here's mine. Seems I shifted a little from when I last did it.

Also, behold:

Image

Chil economic: -5.88 social: -5.74
Shaz economic: -2.25 social: -3.95
Candy Queendom economic: 5.5 social: -6.15
IYF economic: 6.13 social: -2.31
URA economic: -4.75 social: -3.54
NRR economic: -7.63 social: -5.59
Flard economic: -3.75 social: -2.41
USC economic: 0.62 social: -4.97
Cusc economic: 3.63 social: 4.92
WA economic: 3.13 social: -7.13
_REPUBLIC OF WEST AURELIA_
Official factbook
#Valaransofab

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Inyourfaceistan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12585
Founded: Aug 20, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Inyourfaceistan » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:39 am

Ardoki wrote:
Libraria and Ausitoria wrote:I'll just repeat this...

Torture doesn't work.

That is 100% correct.

I just don't understand how people can believe torture works as a way of getting information? Surely someone being tortured would say whatever they think the interrogators would want to hear in order to get the torture to stop.

Smart interrogators torture one guy and then make his friends watch.

And they usually have ways of deciphering what is the truth and what is a lie...

Torture could be used as a punishment. However I don't see the point - A waste of time and energy really. And pretty savage and uncivilised.

Meh, not really. A 7.62x39mm to the back of the head is honestly the best form of punishment.
The part about dropping their miserable corpses to crocodiles is mostly just for show...


It's not French,it's not Spanish,it's Inyurstan
"Inyourfaceistan" refers to my player/user name, "Inyursta" is my IC name. NOT INYURSTAN. IF YOU CALL INYURSTA "INYURSTAN" THEN IT SHOWS THAT YOU CANT READ. Just refer to me as IYF or Stan.

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Sarethan
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 59
Founded: Jul 21, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Sarethan » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:48 am

Inyourfaceistan wrote:Smart interrogators torture one guy and then make his friends watch.

And they usually have ways of deciphering what is the truth and what is a lie...


That would still only be primarily a method of installing fear, rather than a guarantee of reliability.

Actually by and large, it is ineffective as a source of reliable information, as the end result of most forms of torture is mainly just to make the target pliable and say anything to satisfy the torturer. There is no reliability to this.
The latest incarnation of Val

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New Carloso
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5377
Founded: Feb 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby New Carloso » Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:58 am

Imma really near the centre of the political compass chart if I remember. I'm on the right and slightly above the line going east.
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New Aeyariss
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7861
Founded: May 12, 2010
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby New Aeyariss » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:05 am

That test is .... eh.... not enough detailed. Just look what came to me:

Image

Me - one of most far right people in here!
Rping in MT (2023) and PT/FanT (1564)


Inyourfaceistan wrote:You didn't know that Cusc is actually a 4-armed cyborg genius commander and skillful warrior created in secret by a cabal of rich capitalist financiers built to lead and army of drones and other renegades against and overbearing socialist regime?
Psalms 144:1 wrote:Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
Also known as El Cuscatlan, Jesus will offer you eternal life if you believe in him!


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Aigeantir
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1568
Founded: Dec 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Aigeantir » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:17 am

Well, since everyone else is doing it, I thought I would too... no real surprise here:
Image

and this one, just cause I did both:
Image

Libraria and Ausitoria wrote:
Elesar wrote:Honestly, I'm thinking about leaving the IFC to avoid him.

You would have my complete understanding. Once upon a time this place was about nation building. Nowadays anybody would think it was solely devoted to military bragging and aggression. It's the primary reason why I'm still peeved by the IFC's new direction. Probably most of the anti-militarists have left by now...

Lib, I've never been about military aggression, though my nation's outlook as my own is that the best offense is a good defense, and that nations who seek peaceful solutions can still assist others in bringing conflicts to a close with peacekeeping missions, which ultimately means a strong military... ironically my military is not that great. I play off the strength and resolve of my people over the high tech equipment, and therefore I don't really get into the dick measuring of how deadly my weapons are, because I'm above that. I get involved as a matter of principle, based on helping to right the wrongs, and put those who would commit horrendous crimes in their place and to bring justice against them for those they have victimized. That being said, in RL I do have my reservations about NATO, as I see it as a relic of the Cold War era, that only serves the interest of the United States in carefully manipulating her allies into towing the political agenda, or investing in the latest American tech, whether it is wanted or needed by the other nations. Yet on here I join the closest equivalent, and I know that sounds sorta contradictory, but the IFC to me is what NATO should be. We're a defensive alliance, but we don't treat one nation as having more control than the others. We don't force a single political and international agenda, and though we are aligned over an ideology, we're flexible enough to allow a difference of opinion. Most days, I feel like we're somewhere between the UN and the EU, with a dash of NATO, but I think what we have is something unique, that can't be found anywhere else. Yes, there's SACTO and the UL, but even the way they function and operate is different to us. I don't really know how else to explain it beyond this; the IFC is like a family. Those of us here may all have different outlooks and personalities, we might not always get along, but we have a bond, and a level of trust, that allows any one of us, whether we're members from before the IFA/WC merger, or new members as of yesterday, to be able to share our thoughts and opinions without being made to feel like we haven't reached that level in the hierarchy. Yes, at times it means that we have a difference of opinion, but I believe that we will always maintain a "middle of the road" outlook on everything, as we all seem to be level-headed, sensible individuals. The anti-militarists haven't all left. I'd say I'm somewhere in the middle, as I believe that the military needs significant government overwatch, and that it should really only be used defensively or for intervention, but I also believe in not letting oneself get caught off guard by assuming that a nation with few enemies would never be the victim of greed or fanatical ideologies. As one who for the most part sees themselves as an anti-militarist, they haven't all left, and I'm sure there will be a continued streak of us in this organization no matter the direction. :)


Libraria and Ausitoria wrote:
United States of Conner wrote:That really seems like a breach of confidentiality, does it not? "Civilized" nations tend not to do that. Don't do that.

Of course, USC also conducts enhanced interrogation. It's more with drugs, especially those that soften the area of the brain that tells truth from lies, but it happens. It's nasty, but necessary. No water boarding though.

Not when Ausitorian intelligence finds out for themselves.

And torture doesn't actually work, which makes it worse than pointless: people will tell a torturer anything to stop them. There was a case in Japan where an American pilot told the Japanese America had a thousand nuclear weapons or something.

Now there's an example of a really good interrogation technique... I don't think.

Incidentally, can we have a few fewer memes? Perhaps just limit them to Doctor Who? This is in grave danger of turning into a chat thread... although I'm sure we can make an exception for doctor who.

After all,
Image
and all that

I agree that torture should be avoided, and I believe that sometimes instilling fear of retribution of someone's own government against them, with you acting as the "safe haven" for them is much more likely to get results. Let's call it positive-reinforcement torture :D

And as for more Doctor Who gifs ....
Image
Leader: High King Conchobar II, IFC Representative: Hon. Carroll Caomh
Country: Kingdom of Aigéantir, Region: Atlas

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Aigeantir
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1568
Founded: Dec 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Aigeantir » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:18 am

New Aeyariss wrote:That test is .... eh.... not enough detailed. Just look what came to me:

(Image)

Me - one of most far right people in here!


Hmm... well it worked for me! :D
Leader: High King Conchobar II, IFC Representative: Hon. Carroll Caomh
Country: Kingdom of Aigéantir, Region: Atlas

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Brytene
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1493
Founded: Mar 17, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Brytene » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:23 am

Aigeantir wrote:I agree that torture should be avoided, and I believe that sometimes instilling fear of retribution of someone's own government against them, with you acting as the "safe haven" for them is much more likely to get results. Let's call it positive-reinforcement torture :D

And as for more Doctor Who gifs ....
(Image)

I think that's the biggest problem - you torture, you instantly lose the moral high ground and expose your own people to atrocities. Of course, if your opponents are lunatics too then they're going to torture either way, but being the sane, safe, civilised nation has its benefits.

Also for your Dr Who-related viewing pleasure
Image
Brytene is: centrist, pagan, democratic, free-market
Imperalizt Russia wrote:Being on fire will affect shot placement

Socialist Mercanda wrote:Incumbent Blessed Brytene, who is rumoured to be one of the many lovechildren made by Amin and his 69,420,666 wives has retired and we thank him for his glorious service to this region! Glory!

Imperial Nalydya wrote:Spent too much damn time with the nations of Laptev. The old professionals...
The Obi-Wan of New Atlas
My IIwiki is no longer 100% canon
pls contain your salt



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Krjder
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5870
Founded: Aug 15, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Krjder » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:23 am

Got exams coming up. Scrambling my password. See y'all!
Be polite, write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness.
-Otto Von Bismarck
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Nation Type: Direct Democratic Federal Monarchy
Capital: Aastejk
Population: 480,670,500
Current Leadership:
-Emperor Anton IV
-Realm Chancellor Atsūjiri Gyēzashiri
Military:
-1,560,000 Active
-4,750,000 Reserves
Dutch teen, Roman Catholic, socially conservative, economically libertarian. Enjoys; hunting, classical & march music, history and debating.

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Aigeantir
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1568
Founded: Dec 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Aigeantir » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:26 am

Leader: High King Conchobar II, IFC Representative: Hon. Carroll Caomh
Country: Kingdom of Aigéantir, Region: Atlas

User avatar
Inyourfaceistan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12585
Founded: Aug 20, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Inyourfaceistan » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:28 am

Brytene wrote:
Aigeantir wrote:I agree that torture should be avoided, and I believe that sometimes instilling fear of retribution of someone's own government against them, with you acting as the "safe haven" for them is much more likely to get results. Let's call it positive-reinforcement torture :D

And as for more Doctor Who gifs ....
(Image)

I think that's the biggest problem - you torture, you instantly lose the moral high ground and expose your own people to atrocities.

What? :eyebrow:
This makes like no sense...

What difference does it make if Agent X got water boarded with chlorine, beaten daily, keelhauled, etc. before being taken out into the middle of nowhere and executed as opposed to just taking Agent X out to the middle of nowhere and executing him?

Of course, if your opponents are lunatics too then they're going to torture either way, but being the sane, safe, civilized nation has its benefits.
And its drawbacks...


It's not French,it's not Spanish,it's Inyurstan
"Inyourfaceistan" refers to my player/user name, "Inyursta" is my IC name. NOT INYURSTAN. IF YOU CALL INYURSTA "INYURSTAN" THEN IT SHOWS THAT YOU CANT READ. Just refer to me as IYF or Stan.

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Aigeantir
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1568
Founded: Dec 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Aigeantir » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:31 am

Brytene wrote:
Aigeantir wrote:I agree that torture should be avoided, and I believe that sometimes instilling fear of retribution of someone's own government against them, with you acting as the "safe haven" for them is much more likely to get results. Let's call it positive-reinforcement torture :D

And as for more Doctor Who gifs ....
(Image)

I think that's the biggest problem - you torture, you instantly lose the moral high ground and expose your own people to atrocities. Of course, if your opponents are lunatics too then they're going to torture either way, but being the sane, safe, civilised nation has its benefits.

Also for your Dr Who-related viewing pleasure
Image

Image
Leader: High King Conchobar II, IFC Representative: Hon. Carroll Caomh
Country: Kingdom of Aigéantir, Region: Atlas

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Brytene
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1493
Founded: Mar 17, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Brytene » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:34 am

Aigeantir wrote:(Image)

The url for that gif is amazing haha

Inyourfaceistan wrote:What? :eyebrow:
This makes like no sense...

What difference does it make if Agent X got water boarded with chlorine, beaten daily, keelhauled, etc. before being taken out into the middle of nowhere and executed as opposed to just taking Agent X out to the middle of nowhere and executing him?

Sorry, forgot to clarify, engaging in atrocities in general makes you look like a fucking tinpot nation and will generally give the other side the moral high ground, as well as make people feel safer with them than they do in your Caliphate or wherever it is you're chopping heads off

EDIT - and to be clear, torturing someone before killing them is a worse atrocity than the already-awful atrocitiy of simply killing them. Unless you enjoy being tortured

And its drawbacks...

Yeah, but not really enough to make any sensible human being want to live in North Korea or Burma or the ISIS Caliphate or join the LRA or anything...
Last edited by Brytene on Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
Brytene is: centrist, pagan, democratic, free-market
Imperalizt Russia wrote:Being on fire will affect shot placement

Socialist Mercanda wrote:Incumbent Blessed Brytene, who is rumoured to be one of the many lovechildren made by Amin and his 69,420,666 wives has retired and we thank him for his glorious service to this region! Glory!

Imperial Nalydya wrote:Spent too much damn time with the nations of Laptev. The old professionals...
The Obi-Wan of New Atlas
My IIwiki is no longer 100% canon
pls contain your salt



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Inyourfaceistan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12585
Founded: Aug 20, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Inyourfaceistan » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:41 am

Brytene wrote:
Inyourfaceistan wrote:What? :eyebrow:
This makes like no sense...

What difference does it make if Agent X got water boarded with chlorine, beaten daily, keelhauled, etc. before being taken out into the middle of nowhere and executed as opposed to just taking Agent X out to the middle of nowhere and executing him?

Sorry, forgot to clarify, engaging in atrocities in general makes you look like a fucking tinpot nation and will generally give the other side the moral high ground, as well as make people feel safer with them than they do in your Caliphate or wherever it is you're chopping heads off

Well there is obviously a difference between killing a bunch of civilians and political dissenters before posting it on the internet to get kool-points with the radical Sunni community versus discretely interrogating and torturing the fuck out of a spy or something similar...


It's not French,it's not Spanish,it's Inyurstan
"Inyourfaceistan" refers to my player/user name, "Inyursta" is my IC name. NOT INYURSTAN. IF YOU CALL INYURSTA "INYURSTAN" THEN IT SHOWS THAT YOU CANT READ. Just refer to me as IYF or Stan.

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Krjder
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5870
Founded: Aug 15, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Krjder » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:42 am

Krjder wrote:Got exams coming up. Scrambling my password. See y'all!


An additional note on this. I will return, but I won't be known as krjder and you won't know which nation I will be. This is to wipe a pretty stained slate clean.
Be polite, write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness.
-Otto Von Bismarck
Embassy App


Nation Type: Direct Democratic Federal Monarchy
Capital: Aastejk
Population: 480,670,500
Current Leadership:
-Emperor Anton IV
-Realm Chancellor Atsūjiri Gyēzashiri
Military:
-1,560,000 Active
-4,750,000 Reserves
Dutch teen, Roman Catholic, socially conservative, economically libertarian. Enjoys; hunting, classical & march music, history and debating.

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Inyourfaceistan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12585
Founded: Aug 20, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Inyourfaceistan » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:43 am

Krjder wrote:
Krjder wrote:Got exams coming up. Scrambling my password. See y'all!


An additional note on this. I will return, but I won't be known as krjder and you won't know which nation I will be. This is to wipe a pretty stained slate clean.

Does this mean no Republican vs Royalist proxy war?


It's not French,it's not Spanish,it's Inyurstan
"Inyourfaceistan" refers to my player/user name, "Inyursta" is my IC name. NOT INYURSTAN. IF YOU CALL INYURSTA "INYURSTAN" THEN IT SHOWS THAT YOU CANT READ. Just refer to me as IYF or Stan.

User avatar
Brytene
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1493
Founded: Mar 17, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Brytene » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:50 am

Inyourfaceistan wrote:Well there is obviously a difference between killing a bunch of civilians and political dissenters before posting it on the internet to get kool-points with the radical Sunni community versus discretely interrogating and torturing the fuck out of a spy or something similar...

Yeah, but on the whole most people would prefer to live in countries where the government doesn't make up excuses to kidnap and torture people. I think the backlash to Guantanamo and that made it pretty clear. You can debate back and forth all day but the long story short is, places that don't commit human rights abuses are typically nicer places to be...
Brytene is: centrist, pagan, democratic, free-market
Imperalizt Russia wrote:Being on fire will affect shot placement

Socialist Mercanda wrote:Incumbent Blessed Brytene, who is rumoured to be one of the many lovechildren made by Amin and his 69,420,666 wives has retired and we thank him for his glorious service to this region! Glory!

Imperial Nalydya wrote:Spent too much damn time with the nations of Laptev. The old professionals...
The Obi-Wan of New Atlas
My IIwiki is no longer 100% canon
pls contain your salt



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Brytene
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1493
Founded: Mar 17, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Brytene » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:50 am

Krjder wrote:
Krjder wrote:Got exams coming up. Scrambling my password. See y'all!


An additional note on this. I will return, but I won't be known as krjder and you won't know which nation I will be. This is to wipe a pretty stained slate clean.

Nooo! What about Millard? What about Celeste and Steffan-Arthuur?
Brytene is: centrist, pagan, democratic, free-market
Imperalizt Russia wrote:Being on fire will affect shot placement

Socialist Mercanda wrote:Incumbent Blessed Brytene, who is rumoured to be one of the many lovechildren made by Amin and his 69,420,666 wives has retired and we thank him for his glorious service to this region! Glory!

Imperial Nalydya wrote:Spent too much damn time with the nations of Laptev. The old professionals...
The Obi-Wan of New Atlas
My IIwiki is no longer 100% canon
pls contain your salt



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The Candy Queendom
Secretary
 
Posts: 31
Founded: Aug 06, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby The Candy Queendom » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:00 am

Sorry if this makes me come off a bit impatient, but how long does it generally take the Organized States of America to look at the applications?

User avatar
Flardania
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5950
Founded: Nov 13, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Flardania » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:01 am

Here's my personal view I don't see torture has a 100% legitimate because it has rarely worked in stopping plots because people just want the pain to stop. However on NS it doesn't matter because if the OP and or the nation with the person your interrogating believes in torture only then no other tactics are going to work no matter how sound. The same thing vice versa. So essentially in RL sure no torture but on NS what does it matter because certain techniques are only going to work if the RP believes that it would work.
A Proud FMR. Foreign Minister of the INTERNATIONAL FREEDOM COALITION!
Proud member of the -ALLIANCE OF DEMOCRATIC STATES-



I am a MT Japanese/Korean nation inhabited by Human, Anime(They're also Human), and Secret FanT beings (Northern Wilderness)that perform acts based on MT/PMT Reality

Internationally known as Flardania in English, known domestically as Kirishima in Japanese & French, and domestically as Angaeseom in Korean

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Aigeantir
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1568
Founded: Dec 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Aigeantir » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:03 am

The Candy Queendom wrote:Sorry if this makes me come off a bit impatient, but how long does it generally take the Organized States of America to look at the applications?

Considering he's busy these days, I'd say probably 24 hours if you're lucky, though prepare for 72 hours if you are not so lucky :(
Leader: High King Conchobar II, IFC Representative: Hon. Carroll Caomh
Country: Kingdom of Aigéantir, Region: Atlas

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Aigeantir
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1568
Founded: Dec 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Aigeantir » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:05 am

Brytene wrote:
Krjder wrote:
An additional note on this. I will return, but I won't be known as krjder and you won't know which nation I will be. This is to wipe a pretty stained slate clean.

Nooo! What about Millard? What about Celeste and Steffan-Arthuur?

My thoughts exactly... and what about your embassy programme? I was hoping to use that as an opportunity to kick off my own embassy programme! :(
Leader: High King Conchobar II, IFC Representative: Hon. Carroll Caomh
Country: Kingdom of Aigéantir, Region: Atlas

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