Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:54 pm
Tinfect wrote:Excidium Planetis wrote:No, you said they didn't appear to be citizens. I explained why they are only considered residents, not citizens. Citizenship and Slavery are not mutually exclusive.
And that makes it okay to enslave them?Excidium Planetis wrote:I'd like to see how you plan to deploy those tanks in a zero gravity environment where most ship sections below A level are separated by airlocks designed to fit humans, not armor divisions.
Well, for one, it really depends on whether or not your Ship's hull is made of Metal. Magnetism, and all that. But that is fair, we probably could not fit Tanks in most of the ship.Excidium Planetis wrote:Also, last time I checked, your military fleet was outnumbered by mine, I had about 2 million civilian vessels, most armed with at least one offensive weapon,
Most of which are outclassed by a Princeps II, or Triarius III...Excidium Planetis wrote: and a 7000 kilometer carrier with star docks, repair facilities, and literally millions of guns.
What did you miss about "Planetcracker"? And besides the point, if we do not feel like destroying the Reckoner, a Rassvet Dreadnought carries Planetary Bombardment weapons that would be of immense use here. Hell, older Ballistarius, and Macross Frigates carry them as well.Excidium Planetis wrote:I hope your slaves (and I do mean that, any soldiers you brainwash into fighting an insane unprovoked war to slaughter civilians are far more slaves than any we have.) are loyal enough to commit suicide for your hypocritical crusade.
The soldiers of the Imperium, are by no means Slaves, they are free to leave whenever they wish, and we do not fire on Civilians if they are Non-Combatants. If they lay down their arms and do not fire on our Military Forces, they will remain unharmed.Excidium Planetis wrote:Our slaves are freer than your citizens (unable to find much factbook info, so based mostly on NS stats and being a communist imperium)
*Socialist Imperium
But, yeah, I should probably write a Factbook on this. But, no, the Imperium has rather high Civil Rights, partially because it really is no business of the Imperium what one does in their free time unless they are disturbing the public order, (Murder, Theft, that sort of thing) or attempting to bring down the Imperium, and partially because we find that if you keep the people happy, they will have no reason to oppose the Government, Democracy, to them, would be worthless, as they already have most everything they want. Hell, we even let Private Industry deal with the things that Government really has no stake in. Beyond keeping our Citizens healthy, fed, and sheltered, it is largely private.
Except for Mining, Agriculture, Mass-Construction, Medical Services, Education, Military anything really and Research and Development.
I am sure I am forgetting something though.Excidium Planetis wrote:. At least our slaves can vote
Wait, you let your Slaves vote? What.Excidium Planetis wrote: Our slaves can purchase their freedom, but can your people ever escape their slavery to your government?
So... You pay your slaves?
Are they then, not really slaves?
Because that rather changes everything.
Fair point though, Imperial Border Control has something of a "No one comes in, no one comes out." policy.Excidium Planetis wrote:And our police force utilizes power armor, with energy rifles, coilguns, and some kind of pulse weapon. Bought them from AE Celestia. Urban warfare too, the defender's dream.
Oh. Thought you just had those Rocket things.
Might be harder than I thought.
1) What makes it okay for them to be slaves?
2) That really depends on where you are, as the building materials vary by when that section was built. Most parts are either aluminum, aluminum-steel, or titanium alloys. And your tanks could probably fit in most sections... they just couldn't get to another section.
3) Sheer numbers. You think a Princeps could defeat 200 civilian vessels armed with laser cannons, missiles, and occasionally even railguns? At once?
4) So your plan to end slavery is to kill the slaves? That's what hitting Reckoner with a Planetcracker would do. Effective, but hardly the moral highground.
5) I question whether they are in reality free to leave. YOu condition them to be loyal to your nation. Can you prove they can actually refuse to fight?
And also, I wonder how your ally Aeiouia feels about your troops killing our civilians, who did not sign up to fight. I wonder, is their disaproval of slavery enough to allow them to overlook the fact that you are essentially committing genocide?
6) Of course. Voting is practically a sacred right.
7) If they perform work for a paid position, According to the Labor Act of 522 they must be paid for their services (they can work in non-paid positions, however). According to the Alien Slave act of 1014, slave masters cannot be paid for services rendered by slaves (No pimping, hiring out slaves for labor, etc. Slave masters can, however, be paid for the sale of goods produced by non-paid slaves, but any goods produced in whole or in part by non-paid slaves are subject to a special task. Few manufacturing companies utilizing unpaid slaves have managed to turn a profit). Slaves are entitled to property, confiscation of a slaves' property is a federal offense, punishable by fine of twice the properties' value (these fines have allowed several hundred Birrin to purchase their freedom). Slaves must be fed (at masters' expense) according to their dietary requirements and expected work to be performed. Failure to do so is abuse, a federal offense punishable by execution. Slaves have a right to living quarters (masters must provide) appropriate for their species and of a quality meeting federal guidelines (which are the same as the guidelines for military personnel). Failure to provide such conditions is neglect, punishable by a fine. Slaves are protected from cruel, unusual, or arbitrary punishment. Such harm is abuse, punishable by execution. Slaves are considered legal residents (Ernhart vs. Yck'chek), are thus entitled to all adult residents' rights, including voting rights and the right to public medical care. Slaves may purchase their freedom, at market value, even if the owner is unwilling (Dewey vs. Makeer). Slaves may apply for citizenship (Excidium Planetis Department of Naturalization vs. Makeer).
For most purposes, Slaves have the same rights as minors, and several more. Adult Slaves can vote; minors cannot. Adult Slaves can purchase drugs, alcohol, electronic cigarettes; minors cannot. SLaves can own firearms; minors cannot. The sole exception is that minors are entitled to public education, slaves are not. Current legislation, which has received wide pledges of support, is being drafted to improve rights of slaves further. The Foreign Servants Act will grant slaves the right to public education (though government paid college is available only to citizens), will define in what circumstances an individual (citizen or otherwise) may be made a slave, make illegal slavery a federal offense punishable by execution, and mandate emancipation of slaves (held by Excidian masters) which have served 10 years. It is expected to be submitted, queued, and most likely passed this year.
8 ) The rocket weapons are standard military gear, and the most common civilian weapons. Civilians are also allowed to (and sometimes do) own hand grenades, rocket propelled grenade launchers, flamethrowers, ordinary (bullet) ballistic weapons, taser-like devices, some chemical weapons, and yes, energy weapons too (if they can find some). The police force is a private company, currently SecureShip Enterprises, who chose to spend several hundred billion dollars in contract money purchasing exosuits form Stormwrath's AE Celestia corporation. That's where the energy weapons come from. We do not manufacture them (they are not hard FT), but we will buy energy weapons from foreign nations (who are soft FT) and will use them. In fact, we currently have several million energy assault rifles with optional grenade launchers that our military has begun issuing. We bought those from Stormwrath too.