The Frozen Sea Alliance [Invite, MT]

[Vangaziland]

So I just opened a new puppet, Wrexwic. It's going to be the site of a humanitarian Purple Cross mission. Val mentioned that it could be a good RP for the FSA. Any takers? We can even shelve the training thing for this. This will be more complex.

[Mirevia]

So I just opened a new puppet, Wrexwic. It's going to be the site of a humanitarian Purple Cross mission. Val mentioned that it could be a good RP for the FSA. Any takers? We can even shelve the training thing for this. This will be more complex.

I'm definitely for this.

[Vangaziland]

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=333432
RP is up!

Let's keep the troop number kind of small. Let's say a battalion per nation? So 4 infantry/civil affairs companies per nation? I'm thinking there would also be a support battalion, let's say mixed with various FSA assets. So it would be international, probably preestablished. Feel free to jump in and just start creating.

[Vangaziland]

I had an idea for an RP within the RP. What if our nations snuck special forces assets in to help the militia root out entrenched criminals and organized crime? I posted in that Wrexwic thread with this account, starting the RP from our perspective. It should be interesting.

[The United Regions]

I had an idea for an RP within the RP. What if our nations snuck special forces assets in to help the militia root out entrenched criminals and organized crime? I posted in that Wrexwic thread with this account, starting the RP from our perspective. It should be interesting.

This sounds like a good idea, if not direct support I will at least provide top notch training and arms to the militia force. {if I choose to get involved]

[Vangaziland]

Yeah it'll be that sort of thing. Training would he just as important a mission for sure. Sort of like a green beret type mission and unit.

My unit would have a more aggressive type of design, but Wrexic is technically a protectorate of Vangaziland, so makes sens for us to.

[Vangaziland]

Just a quick question. Do we consider ourselves an Atlas only alliance? No, right? My original idea was that the first requirement was always to be nations that I personally trusted IC and OOC first and foremost. By association, everyone knew each other at the time. So it wasn't an issue. I just wanted ideas.

Reason being, I know someone who would be an awesome RPer to work with and I know things have changed since the start. So if anyone wants it to be Atlas only, let it be known.

I don't think this is Atlas only though, or else it would say so in the title.

[The Nation of Ceneria]

Just a quick question. Do we consider ourselves an Atlas only alliance? No, right? My original idea was that the first requirement was always to be nations that I personally trusted IC and OOC first and foremost. By association, everyone knew each other at the time. So it wasn't an issue. I just wanted ideas.

Reason being, I know someone who would be an awesome RPer to work with and I know things have changed since the start. So if anyone wants it to be Atlas only, let it be known.

I don't think this is Atlas only though, or else it would say so in the title.

No, this is certainly not an Atlas-only alliance. We have too many of those already, and not enough elite RPing multi-regional alliances. You are welcome to send me the nation in question's name, and we can decide on whether or not to invite him/her to join the FSA.

[Vangaziland]

The nation's name is Bubba Reb. I invited them into the Wrexwic RP, so we can see from there. They are technically a dictatorship, but I am of the mindset that as long as a government tries to be just in dealing with others and doesn't do any atrocities, it should be alright.

They are also cool enough to RP with and mature OOC.

[Valaran]

I'll take a look then

Edit: he hasn't posted there yet, so I'll wait until he does (and look at some of his other stuff).

[The Nation of Ceneria]

The nation's name is Bubba Reb. I invited them into the Wrexwic RP, so we can see from there. They are technically a dictatorship, but I am of the mindset that as long as a government tries to be just in dealing with others and doesn't do any atrocities, it should be alright.

They are also cool enough to RP with and mature OOC.

From what I can see (both in the Wrexwic thread and in other RPs), he seems to rely a bit too much on real-world images instead of painting the picture with his words (to be poetic about it!).

[Vangaziland]

I one hundred and twenty percent disagree with you. Do you see how different his characters are? Or how he can bring dialect in to the point where you can visualize characters?

Or how about the fact that he is actually rping instead of hanging out in forums or ignoring the RP altogether?

Don't worry he doesn't need to be in this alliance for me to write with them. Having said that, remember that this alliance is made up of people I had personal trust in. Let's not get out of control with this voting ability. If someone trusts someone, for future reference, the others should probably trust the people they have trusted in the past.

Shooting that person down Ceneria is as if you personally feel your opinion is better than mine, as if I am not a good judge of RPers when I am the one who thought you personally were a good RPer. Just keep that in mind before we become like other places and things become a popularity contest under the guise of voting.

My consideration for that nation and any other nation I trust in the future's application to the FSA has been withdrawn.

[Vangaziland]

I am also not of the opinion that this needs to be a place where RP is judged. That will make people not want to participate. I have recently had people TG me and ask for help and that is a great thing. That is what is lacking in these forums, because so many people feel they know everything. I will not allow the alliance that was my idea to be swallowed up into that judgmental atmosphere without saying something.

[Vangaziland]

For future reference, RP of this caliber should be considered A+ for any RP judgement in this alliance. It is not 100% absolute in grammar, but it is 100% in effort, 100% in getting involved in the storyline and setting I could go on.

I would have rather had people debate his form of government.... But RP, no. It is important that if we are going to judge RP, we do it fairly and not ruin someone's chances by presenting an opinion... Especially when you know some others will probably just go off one person saying the RP isn't good enough. Which is wrong.

I am defending Bubba as I would defend any single one of you and I would imagine you guys would do for me...

One of these days he was just going to stop coming into ramshackle roadside bars outside of lawless backwards villages, Bubba told himself as he looked down the barrel of the ragged antique flintlock pistol the angry unkept man was pointing at him. It seemed that trouble was always finding him everytime he visited new places.

Bubba dove forward as smoke and flame spouted from the pistol. The heavy lead ball burned through the air where his head had just been a blink of an eye earlier.

Bubba landed and rolled with the athletic grace of a man 15 years younger. Bubba was 34 but he sure didn't look or act it.

Coming to his feet he considered grabbing the combat knife and plunging it into the mans heart.
Heck, the moron deserved it, Bubba reckoned. He had pulled the gun, after all.
Bubba would have slept fine after killing the idiot, but he was a visitor in this foreign country, and nation leaders just don't go around killing folk when they are going to talk business with the countries leaders.

So Bubba left the blade where it was, balled up his fist, and putting his entire body behind it, and broke the stupid son of a guns jaw instead.

Like a fool, he had been trying to reload when he clearly didnt have enough time to do so before Bubba hit him.

The scantily dressed whore who had started the whole thing by screaming in pain when the local man had grabbed her by the hair and jerked her against him now threw her arms around Bubbas neck.

"You save'a me life" she gushed. Coming up on her toes she plantes her bright red lips on Bubbas mouth.

Now Bubba didn't have any objections to being kissed on by a woman, but he knew better than to close his eyes while it happened. Because of that, he saw the cross eyed brute that looked like the unconsious mans inbred twin rise up from his chair and charge him.
Bubba thought about shoving the whore at the brutevto trip him... after all, she'd had a part in him being in this predicument, but that wouldn't be the chivalrous thing to do, and Bubba still tried from time to time to be a gentleman.

So he swatted her on her attractive rump and advised her, "better scoot darlin!" And turned to face the lumbering bull who was by now shaking the floor as he charged him.

Bubba braced himself against the bar, raised a boot, and the bellowing mans groin ran right into it at a full run.

Doubling over and shreiking like a girl the big man crashed into Bubba like a bowling ball into an alley full of pins.
As he fell, Bubba thought again that he really ought to stay out of these roadside bars outside of unknown hick towns.

[Valaran]

Geez Vang, you asked if we wanted him in. And then, when we don't give our immediate and total assent assent, you get into a self-righteous rage.

Cen wasn't shooting him down. He made one comment that wasn't totally positive and something I happen to agree with. It was also couched as advice, and nothing overly judgemental.

Anyway, he looks about fine. Its a dictatorship (apparently), but meh, my nation isn't overly picky.

[The United Regions]

Geez Vang, you asked if we wanted him in. And then, when we don't give our immediate and total assent assent, you get into a self-righteous rage.

Cen wasn't shooting him down. He made one comment that wasn't totally positive and something I happen to agree with. It was also couched as advice, and nothing overly judgemental.

Anyway, he looks about fine. Its a dictatorship (apparently), but meh, my nation isn't overly picky.

[me] Being undoubtedly the worst RPer in this alliance, I have no problem with him[or her] on that aspect of things, however the dictatorship does worry me, at the same time that is just my [IC] opinion and your votes should have more weight then mine anyways since I was not the founder of this alliance.

[Valaran]

Geez Vang, you asked if we wanted him in. And then, when we don't give our immediate and total assent assent, you get into a self-righteous rage.

Cen wasn't shooting him down. He made one comment that wasn't totally positive and something I happen to agree with. It was also couched as advice, and nothing overly judgemental.

Anyway, he looks about fine. Its a dictatorship (apparently), but meh, my nation isn't overly picky.

[me] Being undoubtedly the worst RPer in this alliance, I have no problem with him[or her] on that aspect of things, however the dictatorship does worry me, at the same time that is just my [IC] opinion and your votes should have more weight then mine anyways since I was not the founder of this alliance.

You're certainly not the worst
Besides, I don't judge us like that; these terms are very subjective (as evidenced by the differing opinion expressed above).

ICly, the dictatorship is fairly concerning. I might ask him to explain it.

About the vote weighting.... my personal view is it should be equal. I didn't think we had a hierarchy here.

[Vangaziland]

Geez Vang, you asked if we wanted him in. And then, when we don't give our immediate and total assent assent, you get into a self-righteous rage.

Cen wasn't shooting him down. He made one comment that wasn't totally positive and something I happen to agree with. It was also couched as advice, and nothing overly judgemental.

Anyway, he looks about fine. Its a dictatorship (apparently), but meh, my nation isn't overly picky.

[me] Being undoubtedly the worst RPer in this alliance, I have no problem with him[or her] on that aspect of things, however the dictatorship does worry me, at the same time that is just my [IC] opinion and your votes should have more weight then mine anyways since I was not the founder of this alliance.

This is the kind of point that is unbiased and makes sense. That is valid. Yet, we always made it clear that ideologies or any other thing do not affect ones acceptance. Who is to say that dictatorship is actually bad? With the way some "democracies" operate in NS, it is more about what that nation does and how they interact.

But that is a valid concern. Having said that, how would you feel if some nation told you that you couldn't join this RP just because they had a judgement about your RP... Even if you wrote an RP and knew you always had the ability to write that and better.

Oh, so let me guess... You judged him by the ball RP? Look at that actual thread, read the story, read how absolutely stupid it was and see that he STILL had the ability to keep the story going...

He didn't just ignore the RP, get stuck and quit after 1-2 posts (because of only knowing to write like Star Trek dialogue) or even sticking his pompous nose up and saying he is too good for it.

I did get self-righteous Valaran, and good job trying to call me out on it. I would rather you actually tried to get involved with a character before judging them as well. I will stand up for what is right or if I think the system is totally screwing someone.

Just because you guys don't like rednecks, does not give you the chance to automatically classify them as a stupid nation. Yet that is how I see him judged, why? Because the people judging have the absolute barebones, basic beginning exposure to RP and writing.

The point of these stories is not to show off how much your nation is like the UK or USA. It is to interact with other writers, PERIOD! That is one way to do it, but the majority of people do it. Val, you can stop being self-righteous as well, for thinking you have the right to toss out opinions and overrule another's opinion who has actually worked with them.

But yeah I'm just saying this to make a scene, not because you turned The original idea for something that was supposed to be the opposite of this and the rest of the RP regions Into this. What's next? I have a right to question directions and speak as if I have a major say. I could have put founder in the title and hung onto power instead of trusting each and every one of you.

Should we kick out United Regions because he is new to roleplaying? Or is that a new rule we just made up completely unrelated to other forums, like welcome to Atlas by chance? That's a democracy just make up rules in a place where the original idea was no rules, just that things make sense...

[Vangaziland]

I guarantee you, the reason UR is so nervous about RPing is that everywhere he goes, he is surrounded by people who criticize and criticize RP when they do not need to take that attitude.

Look at how it makes someone put down their writing the way UR did. People feel like they shouldn't jump in because someone will judge them. That is wrong, no matter what intentions there are.

I dare either of you to bring 500 civilians, set them up and make characters that are not Royal/always debonaire politicians, are not in charge of major military personnel or assets and write an interesting, unique story in the same environment. Secretly, we can see who is better and those who think he sucks can put their money where their mouth is.

[The Nation of Ceneria]

I guarantee you, the reason UR is so nervous about RPing is that everywhere he goes, he is surrounded by people who criticize and criticize RP when they do not need to take that attitude.

Look at how it makes someone put down their writing the way UR did. People feel like they shouldn't jump in because someone will judge them. That is wrong, no matter what intentions there are.

I dare either of you to bring 500 civilians, set them up and make characters that are not Royal/always debonaire politicians, are not in charge of major military personnel or assets and write an interesting, unique story in the same environment. Secretly, we can see who is better and those who think he sucks can put their money where their mouth is.

First of all, before I even touch on Bubba Reb's RPing skill or related topics, I just want to say that you are very much over-reacting. When I wrote my post (and nearly all others that I amok, for that matter), I do my best to come across as offensive to no-one. Period. It was stated as an honest opinion and not a judgement.

Remember there first time we all RPed together? I ripped off Swedish self-propelled artillery and called it my own, and used pictures of German tanks and called them my own! Every single RPer, regardless of "writing skill" does this at some point. Val did it. You did it. I sure as HELL did it. There was absolutely no judgement in my statement about Bubba Reb using real-life photographs. The only reason I mentioned it was because he used one or two images for many of his posts, when not having one might have sufficed.

With that out of the way, I am going to touch on "voting." There is no official voting in this thread, simply because I think we should focus on RPing instead of pointless OOC formalities. The only criteria for entry is that most of us think that the nation in question in a good writer, and can get much better by participating in RPs as a part of our group. There is no such thing as a veto! If you all regard someone as the best RPer in the history of the world and I think he/she absolutely sucks (and this is hypothetical, by the way), then (while my opinion should be considered, you all clearly have the majority and the nation would be allowed in. That's that.

Now for Bubba Reb. As I stated, he uses picture a bit much for my (admittedly high) standards. But his RPing quality is just as good as any Atlasians, and I have no problem with it. That said, I would be glad to accept him into the FSA, but I'd like to watch his RPing for use a couple of days more to get a feel for it before formally inviting him in.

Without a doubt, his RPing will improve by RPing with all of us.

Good night.

[Vangaziland]

Keep in mind one of the first things I did was agree with was that the dictatorship part was a valid discussion, yet the group was made to be one without specific ideologies. And I do not feel you guys have the right to snap judge and lightning strike down dictatorships without actually understanding their government. This voting system will allow people to manipulate if they want to campaign and pretend to be friends. I did not want that here.

You can watch the new posts and see exactly if he can RP or not. All of you can check it out and see the excited writer you guys just missed out on. I withdrew his consideration, I will not be submitting any others and I will most likely not be voting for any new members unless I grade their RP skills on a college level. Since that is the new standard.

Meanwhile, check the Wrexwic thread and see the proof that the guy was unfairly judged. In the same forum that he would have to join, people want to ignore his work and say he can't do it. Even saying he is only as good as an average Atlas player is an insult to him. He is better than the average Atlas player. And if I never said anything, you would have taken Ceneria at his word and all voted Bubba out.... WRONG.

With your choice to stand up for your voting rights, for no reason other than to establish them (in a way that people made up ranks in certain regions and turned them into a place where power hungry people have a chance to take power. I don't want voting because alliances form. And people are lazy. Why did they have to make a campaign page for elections? Because before, the first 3 or 4 people vote. And then you will see most of the people mentioning the same candidates that the first few people picked instead of starting fresh in their minds. it usually works in good people, but there is evidence people manipulated it in the past.

I can't even bring up certain people, because they somehow manipulated the game so bad while I was gone that some people will literally cry. I have no clue what happened, but did it have to do with alliances, an elected position or manipulating power? I bet so, just guessing.

Unless someone writes one liners, it should not be an issue. If anyone doesn't fit, they can get kicked out or most likely they will leave.

But your priority seems to be a system and everyone wants that system.

So with your choice to push for that system instead of trusting the person who told you about Atlas, you lost not just Bubba... but me as well. I am not interested, think of all the RPs I have started with you guys.

Literally every RP I started with you guys, since the summer.... You guys have quit. Literally, even other people's ones like Senice. Great stories. and you guys couldn't finish. Just like everyone quit Wrexwic a week ago.

Instead of judging and worrying about voting systems and titles and God-given rights on an Internet forum, look into writing for a story... Not just writing to put up an appearance.

I hope you know I say all this because I cared about this alliance. I could have just said okay and ignored you guys. But I felt hurt because I ONCE trusted you and now I feel like you guys are planning something like you're scared of me taking power.... Ironic. IC my nation is still your allies, because it wouldn't make sense otherwise... But if trust means anything to you guys, know one less person trusts you in this world.

[Valaran]

I was going to do a complete rebuttal of Vang's points, line by line. I even wrote out a whole segment for an earlier post of yours. But then I realised how pointless that would be.

So I'd like to address three things:

You can watch the new posts and see exactly if he can RP or not. All of you can check it out and see the excited writer you guys just missed out on. I withdrew his consideration, I will not be submitting any others and I will most likely not be voting for any new members unless I grade their RP skills on a college level. Since that is the new standard.

Thats a shame, since I've already talked to him about the FSA, and he expressed interest
Apparently he didn't even know he was being considered for this alliance.

And if I never said anything, you would have taken Ceneria at his word and all voted Bubba out.... WRONG.

This, in its entirety, is false. You have completely misunderstood what Cen said (despite his explanations), and I still take him at his word.

Literally every RP I started with you guys, since the summer.... You guys have quit. Literally, even other people's ones like Senice. Great stories. and you guys couldn't finish. Just like everyone quit Wrexwic a week ago.

I haven't started any RPs with you since the summer. I never joined Wrexwic because we had this argument.

[Vangaziland]

Val, you love semantics. I know you think you are so smart. The point is not the exact wording. The point is, time and time again you have quit and made the stories generally uninteresting. Now look, I would rather not debate. Remember when you begged me to stop talking about TUM and how I warned you about him but you, by chastising and critiquing me instead of listening, HELPED him?

Dude, work on your own stuff. I would really rather not debate. You guys are left with this conversation on your page. The facts are there. People should be able to see that I stood up for Bubba in a way that I would have stood up for ANY of you, no matter what you chose to do with your nations and writing.

But more importantly than what other people think, despite your snarky responses and such, that you deep down know you are wrong. This was not meant to be a judgmental place. It was supposed to be different from all the other groups. More personal, all interactive stories. But you know you don't want that, fine. Maybe you're not wrong. But if you want to make it seem like I'm just some crazy person who has no right to feel how I feel after you all have dissappointed me and what I hoped with this alliance, this region and nation states in general, then YOU GUYS are the dictators and not Bubba Reb. That is how YOU GUYS made me feel.

It's this simple to move on. Plan an RP instead of doing this silly argument. Make it unique but more importantly, have fun. You may find that if you step away from trying to compete with each other and all of the hundreds of thousands of nations on this website, that you will have a better experience.

And that is my last word with this "alliance". Have fun on the boards. I will RP with people who are just fun to write with as opposed to acting like I have to jostle with you for favor and popularity.

[Valaran]

Val, you love semantics. I know you think you are so smart. The point is not the exact wording. The point is, time and time again you have quit and made the stories generally uninteresting. Now look, I would rather not debate. Remember when you begged me to stop talking about TUM and how I warned you about him but you, by chastising and critiquing me instead of listening, HELPED him?

Dude, work on your own stuff. I would really rather not debate. You guys are left with this conversation on your page. The facts are there. People should be able to see that I stood up for Bubba in a way that I would have stood up for ANY of you, no matter what you chose to do with your nations and writing.

But more importantly than what other people think, despite your snarky responses and such, that you deep down know you are wrong. This was not meant to be a judgmental place. It was supposed to be different from all the other groups. More personal, all interactive stories. But you know you don't want that, fine. Maybe you're not wrong. But if you want to make it seem like I'm just some crazy person who has no right to feel how I feel after you all have dissappointed me and what I hoped with this alliance, this region in nation states in general, then YOU GUYS are the dictators and not Bubba Reb. That is how YOU GUYS made me feel. So quote some stuff and type snarky in your own minds.

And that is my last word with this "alliance". Have fun on the boards. I will RP with people who are just fun to write with as opposed to acting like I have to jostle with you for favor and popularity.

But none of this was snark, Vang. I genuinely felt everything I said above, and I did not say it with malice, or snide remarks.

The point is, time and time again you have quit and made the stories generally uninteresting.

I did? Well, that is your judgment, I suppose.

I, deep down, am sad to see you thought any of this to be true, or worth saying.

[Vangaziland]

I truly thought that and you truly let me down. You personally. I thought nothing but the best of you. You are very intelligent. But that little attitude you get where you say little things as if people don't pick up on it is only going to cause you problems. Just trust me. You can be smart and not be condescending.

I am gone.

I would say move on. You guys should stop responding and plan an RP. I'm sure you have plenty. But isn't the point of this for you guys to RP? Prove me wrong. Make something fun. Oh sorry I interrupted your last word Val, but now I would like to see what kind of RP you guys can create. Let me guess, the war games idea? I came up with that one in the summer but you guys couldn't figure it out and quit.

And your response wasn't snark either by the way, thanks for pointing it out. I will try to go again, unless you want to try to summarize my points and deflect with your superior wit. Re read the points that you quoted without putting your sensitivity up. Seriously.