International Freedom Coalition (SignUp/OOC)

[Legendardisch]

I support Elemental Norths decision to especially fire Libraria-Ausitoria, his own policy is too disastrous in my opinion.

[New Carloso]

I support Elemental Norths decision to especially fire Libraria-Ausitoria, his own policy is too disastrous in my opinion.

I find that hard to believe. I support his firing of the intelligence minister who was, quiet frankly, never on. Libraria was a good minister.

[Elemental North]

I support Elemental Norths decision to especially fire Libraria-Ausitoria, his own policy is too disastrous in my opinion.

I find that hard to believe. I support his firing of the intelligence minister who was, quiet frankly, never on. Libraria was a good minister.

He was good in carrying out his own policy. Which was agressive and disastrous to the peace talks. For god's sake, I issued a call for cease fire on our letterhead, and then he reaffirms it on his own stationary-which was great I appreciated that immensely-but then he threatened to to shoot at them if they didn't comply with the CEASEFIRE. And of course everyone ignored me and got more rowdy because of that note. Now I'd agree to say that the guy is awesome; he's well spoken, he's intelligent, he has a decent visionary outlook. But Christ on a stick if he isn't too combative, arrogant, and self-absorbed to let it shine through when it counts!

I fired him because, after that note I mentioned, and his previous observable policy, I decided I didn't want that to be the tone of the conflicts-I viewed it as detrimental to the peace talks-and I also didn't want that to be the tone of my administration and of this Alliance. What people don't understand about serving in a Cabinet is that, you DON'T get to make your own policy. You carry out the explicit policy directives of your elected head-which is me. Libraira did not understand this, or if he did he chose not follow it, and instead decided to cut me out on all policy directives-which I most likely would have let him experiment with had he suggested them to me. -(I like to try new opinions out every now and again.)

So despite the fact that he's an awesome guy and has alot of great qualities, there were too many negative diplomatic qualities he had to warrant me keeping him in a post I appointed him to. When in Cabinet you serve at the pleasure of the President/Prime Minister, what have you. Just because he is many people's friend, does not mean he is infallible and perfect. I no longer wanted him in my Cabinet, for the reasons outlined above, and thus I removed him, which Brat has already said, is MY choice.

So like it or not, it's staying that way, and whilst I have apologized to the Ausitorian Delegation for firing him, because I did it mostly in the hopes of removing a seemingly major agressor to the Zernovyl crisis in order to further peace, which was obviously in vain, I will not apologize for the fresher start this Alliance will most likely have because of it. It, again, was not the tone my Administration wished to set-we now have reached our end and endorse war-however, it was, and will continue to be-except in extreme cases-a tone we wish not to set. So if you do not like the tone, and thus this Administration, feel free not to vote for me in the next election.

But you would be foolish to try and impeach me because I fired one of your friends. Congress does not get to impeach the President of the United States of America, because he/she fired a Cabinet Secretary they liked. If only due to the fact that, it's unethical, a crony system, and just plain corrupt. Which ironically is what you accused me of earlier.

Now, you can either keep me, and continue to vote for me, the most experienced well known leader you have, and one who's policy and guidance has never failed this Alliance before, or you can impeach me, go through the hearings, and the votes, which will drag on, where we will likely loose more members, where the SACTO conflicts and the Zernovyl crisis will get none the smaller, and where in the end, what you'll do is disrupt everything to do this, call elections, get someone new in, and put them at the helm of something they'll have to work days, even weeks, to become properly acquainted with, where-in the mean time-we slowly become more and more fractured, people stop participating, and we finally collapse. All because I fired the friend of a few people in leadership, and they got mad.

I won't stop you from doing it, I'm just saying, when the ash starts coming down, don't blame me, or my staff, for it.

Because it was ALL under you collective directive.

[Valaran]

To be honest, I think the SACTO thing should be more concerning for you all than the leadership right now.

[Elemental North]

To be honest, I think the SACTO thing should be more concerning for you all than the leadership right now.

There are a LOT of things more important then leadership. But the wheels of power know no halt, and as such they keep turning until a new head lies on a pike and a new king can take the throne.

People who want power will stop at nothing, in the face of nothing, to gain what they crave.

[Valaran]

To be honest, I think the SACTO thing should be more concerning for you all than the leadership right now.

There are a LOT of things more important then leadership. But the wheels of power know no halt, and as such they keep turning until a new head lies on a pike and a new king can take the throne.

People who want power will stop at nothing, in the face of nothing, to gain what they crave.

Seriously, EN, forget about it. You're missing the real issues here.

[Flardania]

To be honest, I think the SACTO thing should be more concerning for you all than the leadership right now.

There are a LOT of things more important then leadership. But the wheels of power know no halt, and as such they keep turning until a new head lies on a pike and a new king can take the throne.

People who want power will stop at nothing, in the face of nothing, to gain what they crave.

Truth

[Elemental North]

There are a LOT of things more important then leadership. But the wheels of power know no halt, and as such they keep turning until a new head lies on a pike and a new king can take the throne.

People who want power will stop at nothing, in the face of nothing, to gain what they crave.

Seriously, EN, forget about it. You're missing the real issues here.

Then please, my colleague, former boss, T.G me what you think I should do.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

I find that hard to believe. I support his firing of the intelligence minister who was, quiet frankly, never on. Libraria was a good minister.

He was good in carrying out his own policy. Which was agressive and disastrous to the peace talks. For god's sake, I issued a call for cease fire on our letterhead, and then he reaffirms it on his own stationary-which was great I appreciated that immensely-but then he threatened to to shoot at them if they didn't comply with the CEASEFIRE.

Did you honestly think that a ceasefire would work without someone saying that they would be severely displeased (I didn't say shoot at nations) if people broke it? Obviously your policy needed some diplomatic support if it was to have any chance of working; so I simply fleshed out your demand for a ceasefire. And when my departure was rumoured, everybody realized that your policy had nothing to back it up with.

Since my departure, we have seen everybody testing the will of the IFC all at once. Throughout Elemental North's dictatorial rule we have seen members leave. Why? Because we have a leader who refuses to accept different opinions or tolerate dissent, and thinks that an iron hand and discipline is the way to run an alliance.

And, as we are seeing, it is not. The IFC does not need a personality cult. It does not need obedience. It needs freedom to accept different viewpoints.

[Legendardisch]

But no one wants it to be replaced with another dictator.

I mean it.
stop it
or leave it



Your policies ARE disastrous, I dont need to remind you about the sanctions i imposed you and all.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Legendardisch, could you for once in your life learn the difference between IC and OOC, and stop spamming me?

[Legendardisch]

Legendardisch, could you for once in your life learn the difference between IC and OOC, and stop spamming me?

I see the difference, and i still do.

I am not spamming you.

[Flardania]

He was good in carrying out his own policy. Which was agressive and disastrous to the peace talks. For god's sake, I issued a call for cease fire on our letterhead, and then he reaffirms it on his own stationary-which was great I appreciated that immensely-but then he threatened to to shoot at them if they didn't comply with the CEASEFIRE.

Did you honestly think that a ceasefire would work without someone saying that they would be severely displeased (I didn't say shoot at nations) if people broke it? Obviously your policy needed some diplomatic support if it was to have any chance of working; so I simply fleshed out your demand for a ceasefire. And when my departure was rumoured, everybody realized that your policy had nothing to back it up with.

Since my departure, we have seen everybody testing the will of the IFC all at once. Throughout Elemental North's dictatorial rule we have seen members leave. Why? Because we have a leader who refuses to accept different opinions or tolerate dissent, and thinks that an iron hand and discipline is the way to run an alliance.

And, as we are seeing, it is not. The IFC does not need a personality cult. It does not need obedience. It needs freedom to accept different viewpoints.

Yea because we sooooo totally had that before EN.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Legendardisch, could you for once in your life learn the difference between IC and OOC, and stop spamming me?

I see the difference, and i still do.

I am not spamming you.

Obviously you're not going away, and this is a good a place as any to explain. For elegance I shall divide my argument into 3 points.

1. I/Ausitoria have split my personality between OOC and IC.
It's like a multiple-person disorder; or like I have an IC hat and an OOC hat. This is how I can be excellent OOC friends with IC enemies (and to some extent OOC enemies with IC friends for that matter). Now you, Legendardisch, are presumably getting upset because I seem OOCly to care for Ausitoria ICly; and to be using my OOC influence to limit the IC effects on Ausitoria. Which brings us to the second point.

2. I also have split-OOC personalities.
On a purely personal note, I don't want to protect Ausitoria ICly; indeed it would be extremely interesting to RP having it destroyed: watching logic continue to the bitter end. But in my capacity as leader of an OOC region, I have to behave as my region demands, or as I think they would demand, and I think my region does OOCly care for the continuity of IC Ausitoria in just the same way that they care for the continuity of the rest of the region, and therefore OOCly I have to care about Ausitoria. (Also in my capacity as OOC leader of the region; and in my personal OOC capacity; I opposed much of what Ausitoria recently managed: i.e., making my region very peaceful and making sure that the balance of power didn't change. While ICly Ausitoria was a complete success, OOCly I was in danger of being a failure as there was very little to RP, effectively shutting down one of our RPs (the Mizrad-Maverican War). I dare say TNL and Naybra will remember my worried musings on the subject).

3. I also have split-IC personalities.
Ausitoria as an individual nation behaves very differently from Ausitoria as a representative of a group. Ask Loufe: I have been scrupulously careful to ensure that as IC Speaker my IC enemies have been given all that they need to conduct their business ICly. Equally as IFC Foreign Minister I have been restrained and moderate and attempted to follow the IC consensus and keep the IFC on a stable path between left and right, even while Ausitoria would prefer the IFC to veer to the right. Ausitoria as IFC Foreign Minister cared about socialists: Ausitoria as an independent nation doesn't much.

Hopefully all that isn't too confusing, so to sum:

For Mizrad and other IC criticizers in the IFC: Ausitoria as an IFC Foreign Minister is not very similar to Ausitoria as an independent nation.
For Legendardisch: I OOCly care about the OOC wishes of other people to ensue that Ausitoria is ICly protected for; i.e. I don't directly care at all for Ausitoria's IC future except insofar as I have to write about it.

[Bratislav]

Fellow IFC Members,

1) I know some of you disagree with EN's decisions/rule. It is healthy to disagree in a democratic structure. Just look at normal democracies and how much tensions there usually are with the Head of Government. That being said, there are mechanisms in place for any IFC member to vent their frustration or anger. Either through proposing resolutions or if needed calling a no-confidence vote - and such a vote, if successful, results in the full dissolution of the cabinet and PM, and new elections are held.

2) With all this arguing, we are losing the most important thing. Unity and Cohesion. As a military alliance the most important thing is unity. I know it's difficult with differing opinions and politics, but at least we must unite around the fact that we are here to defend our fellow members that are attacked.

3) SACTO's threats against us, need to be the forefront issue. Rather than argue all day and night about EN's policies, just hold a no-confidence vote, and be done with it. What is more damaging to the IFC is constant infighting, and it's better just to hold new elections than continue with such infighting while we are in the middle of a serious issue.

[New Carloso]

Fellow IFC Members,

1) I know some of you disagree with EN's decisions/rule. It is healthy to disagree in a democratic structure. Just look at normal democracies and how much tensions there usually are with the Head of Government. That being said, there are mechanisms in place for any IFC member to vent their frustration or anger. Either through proposing resolutions or if needed calling a no-confidence vote - and such a vote, if successful, results in the full dissolution of the cabinet and PM, and new elections are held.

2) With all this arguing, we are losing the most important thing. Unity and Cohesion. As a military alliance the most important thing is unity. I know it's difficult with differing opinions and politics, but at least we must unite around the fact that we are here to defend our fellow members that are attacked.

3) SACTO's threats against us, need to be the forefront issue. Rather than argue all day and night about EN's policies, just hold a no-confidence vote, and be done with it. What is more damaging to the IFC is constant infighting, and it's better just to hold new elections than continue with such infighting while we are in the middle of a serious issue.

Agreed. We really do need to form a response to SACTO's invasion of an IFC member without prior provocation. When will the no-confidence vote be held?

[El Cuscatlan]

Fellow IFC Members,

1) I know some of you disagree with EN's decisions/rule. It is healthy to disagree in a democratic structure. Just look at normal democracies and how much tensions there usually are with the Head of Government. That being said, there are mechanisms in place for any IFC member to vent their frustration or anger. Either through proposing resolutions or if needed calling a no-confidence vote - and such a vote, if successful, results in the full dissolution of the cabinet and PM, and new elections are held.

2) With all this arguing, we are losing the most important thing. Unity and Cohesion. As a military alliance the most important thing is unity. I know it's difficult with differing opinions and politics, but at least we must unite around the fact that we are here to defend our fellow members that are attacked.

3) SACTO's threats against us, need to be the forefront issue. Rather than argue all day and night about EN's policies, just hold a no-confidence vote, and be done with it. What is more damaging to the IFC is constant infighting, and it's better just to hold new elections than continue with such infighting while we are in the middle of a serious issue.

Agreed. We really do need to form a response to SACTO's invasion of an IFC member without prior provocation. When will the no-confidence vote be held?

You are aware that the thread is closed?

Just reminding you.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

As I have argued ICly, if this alliance is to come to much, and if we are to maintain unity and cohesion; we must be more inclusive and accepting of different ideas instead of being exclusive and frightening members away from the alliance. There will always be disagreements: we must realize that some disagreements are valuable and some are not.

The most important concept in Western Democracy is that of the Loyal Opposition. My lawyer friends tell me that this is one of the hardest concepts to get across in dictatorships like China; yet it is what makes democracy work: tolerance and respect for different ideas. The understanding that even when you are out of government and in a minority, your interests are to some extent going to be respected and protected. Obviously there should be a limit somewhere, but I think it would be helpful to recognize the usefulness of some disagreements in assessing which options are best for the IFC.

And on a brighter note, imagine if we weren't arguing about the future of the IFC. Then we would definitely be a dead alliance with no new ideas.

[New Carloso]

Agreed. We really do need to form a response to SACTO's invasion of an IFC member without prior provocation. When will the no-confidence vote be held?

You are aware that the thread is closed?

Just reminding you.

But we can't allow you bully us around and say 'nah nah na na nah you don't have the balls to fight us'

What if i make a different trend?

[Valaran]

As I have argued ICly, if this alliance is to come to much, and if we are to maintain unity and cohesion; we must be more inclusive and accepting of different ideas instead of being exclusive and frightening members away from the alliance. There will always be disagreements: we must realize that some disagreements are valuable and some are not.

The most important concept in Western Democracy is that of the Loyal Opposition. My lawyer friends tell me that this is one of the hardest concepts to get across in dictatorships like China; yet it is what makes democracy work: tolerance and respect for different ideas. The understanding that even when you are out of government and in a minority, your interests are to some extent going to be respected and protected. Obviously there should be a limit somewhere, but I think it would be helpful to recognize the usefulness of some disagreements in assessing which options are best for the IFC.

And on a brighter note, imagine if we weren't arguing about the future of the IFC. Then we would definitely be a dead alliance with no new ideas.

Also present shoudl be the idea of the one nation - that in government you serve everyone to the best of your ability, not just your voting block

But I couldn't agree more with everything Lib just said here (and on the council thread). This is what I tried to do as PM.

[El Cuscatlan]

You are aware that the thread is closed?

Just reminding you.

But we can't allow you bully us around and say 'nah nah na na nah you don't have the balls to fight us'

What if i make a different trend?

You want new theatre? Sure, we shall discuss it.... SACTO will only accept it however if there will be equal forces of SACTO and IFC. Let's say 3vs3.

We can always talk about it, I see no bigger problem. Perhaps we shall make a thread for "The Freedom Wars" and plan few more threads than just Arg?

[Valaran]

SACTO will only accept it however if there will be equal forces of SACTO and IFC. Let's say 3vs3.

You see, that just gives the advantage over to SACTO though.

[Bratislav]

I think to calm everything down, we need two things:

1) New Elections
2) An actual inter-alliance conference with SACTO (after new elections).

[New Carloso]

I think to calm everything down, we need two things:

1) New Elections
2) An actual inter-alliance conference with SACTO (after new elections).

*tsk* *tsk* we need war

[El Cuscatlan]

I think to calm everything down, we need two things:

1) New Elections
2) An actual inter-alliance conference with SACTO (after new elections).

*tsk* *tsk* we need war

Oh I agree totally.....